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Author Topic: 16mm forums
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 02:24 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
At the request of several people, we now have forums for 16mm. Since this has always been known as the "8mm Forum", a new name is probably in order. Any recommendations?

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Dimitrios Kremalis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 129
From: Athens - Greece
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted November 06, 2004 02:44 PM      Profile for Dimitrios Kremalis   Email Dimitrios Kremalis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Small Gauge Forum?

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Chris Quinn
Master Film Handler

Posts: 372
From: England, Bedfordshire.
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 02:48 PM      Profile for Chris Quinn   Email Chris Quinn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,
Not sure what you are saying, are you saying that the forum is now going to be 16mm as well as 8mm. if so i hope this is not going to go down the same route as another forum i know, then it will be DVD forum next. [Mad]

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The other half thinks i'm up to something. Shes right of course.

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Naushad Mohamed
Film Handler

Posts: 57
From: south africa
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted November 06, 2004 02:55 PM      Profile for Naushad Mohamed   Email Naushad Mohamed   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hi everyone
i am new to this forum,but its a great idea. next should be 35mm as well. i dont see why there should only be 2 other forums for this.this one is just as good and might even be better.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 03:02 PM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Chris

I don't think this is an issue since from what I can see (and indeed I may be wrong) the 16mm forum is just linked to the 8mm but you can see all topics on all forums. If this is the case I am all for it but I agree that "purity" is best maintained.

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Tony

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 03:06 PM      Profile for Dan Lail   Author's Homepage   Email Dan Lail   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, this is a super idea. I am very much a collector of 8mm and 16mm films. This has been the most interesting and easiest going forum on the internet. I know the new 16mm forum will be the same quality of participants. [Smile]

As to the new name how about "film collector's forum". [Cool]

[ November 06, 2004, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Dan Lail ]

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 03:26 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Brad,
Film Collectors Forum is probably a good name. I think the inclusion of all film sizes, including the occasional 9.5mm, is probably a good idea. I agree with Chris though, that I hope this will not eventually change this excellent forum to include digital video. There are plenty of other Forums on the web which already cover the "Home Theater" crowd. Let's restrict this forum to reel film. Maybe this should now be stated on the opening page, if you are going to change the Forum title from specifically 8mm.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Chris Quinn
Master Film Handler

Posts: 372
From: England, Bedfordshire.
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 03:29 PM      Profile for Chris Quinn   Email Chris Quinn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hope your right Tony.

Sorry Brad understand what your doing now.
Could call it Frame By Frame or celluloid forum.

I would like to make it clear that i have no problem with other film formats apart from DVD which in my opinion is neither a format or anything else apart from a good drip mat to put your coffee on.
I do think though that by doing this you should include 9.5 28 & 35mm

Chris.
Chris.

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The other half thinks i'm up to something. Shes right of course.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 04:14 PM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep. I think this is a good idea, I like the fact that the forum coverage has broadened but the specific areas of interest have still been given their own slots [as it were]. The danger of lumping everything in to one space would be that the predominant interest would take over from the minority, as has happened else where. I don't see that happening with the format that Brad is proposing.

As for names, doesn't really matter I suppose, but I like the suggestions above of either 'small gauge forum' or 'film collectors forum'.

Mike

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 04:34 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Just hope this is not the start of the format wars as seen on another forum just lately [Frown]
It will be shame if this turns into a place to bitch about which format is best etc.

Kev. [Smile]

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 04:43 PM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I take your point Kev but I don't think the guys on here would let that happen. There seems to be a comforting degree of mutual respect amongst the membership of Brads forum and little evidence of a competitive edge, just a bunch of people chatting about their film and projectors.

From what I understand most of the people on here collect and project several gauges and DVD, it's just nice, as Tony says to have a haven where you can go and know that all the talk will be about the gauge you want to talk about at that moment, what ever gauge that is.

I concur with Paul that keeping it purely reel film is important as there are plenty of home theatre forums on the internet available for those of us who want to to go and talk about DVD projection.

MIke

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 04:45 PM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry to buck the trend but I like this forum just the way it is. There are already forums for 16mm and 35mm and having used them both I have to report that I don't like them much. In particular with the 35mm forum some of the members get very big headed and rude about their subject. I gave up with the 16mm forum years ago for partially the same reasons.

As for the other 8mm forum mentioned earlier I've never bothered registering. I think it's certainly helped this forum that a full name is required meaning people can't hide behind a pseudonym or code word. Using another name and critising is something that tends to annoy me. No disguises here which means members tend to be more civil to one another.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 04:52 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Here, here. I'm right behind you John with your comments. Lets keep the formats separate. I can just imagine what this is going to be like in 6 months time. Have seen it elsewhere. [Frown]

Hope I'm wrong.

Brad, why didnt you put this to the vote before actually doing the merge? Bit sneaky! [Frown]

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 05:04 PM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok. Am I missing something here? As I see it Brad has set up a whole set of new 16mm forums accessible through the same index page as this forum. They will just be additional forums on the index.

This forum will remain 8mm and any one who wants to talk about 16mm stuff will have three seperate forums to access. Why should that bring problems into here?

Is it that you guys think that Brad is proposing that 16mm chat is included in the 8mm forum? If that were the case I would agree with you because, as I said earlier, the danger would be that the majority interest would swamp the minority and yes, that could lead to unpleasantness as we have all seen elswhere.

I don't see that happening all the time there are seperate forums for people to chat about the stuff that is interesting them at that moment.

Mike [Confused]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 05:13 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Mike I just think that it will now encourage 16mm only members onto the forum which Brad will be unable to police and they will post into both parts of the forum and eventually we will see the bickering and carry on that has happened in the past on other forums. Also it will start to take the forum away from the very focussed feel that this forum has. Shame [Frown]
If I want to talk 16mm or 35mm I know where to go and it wasnt here on this forum.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 05:17 PM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev, I understand your concern but am hoping that the route Brad has taken on here will minimise the risk of all that silly gauge war stuff.

Only time will tell I suppose ...

Mike [Smile]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 07:10 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since I can only concentrate on one gauge at a time, I'd prefer to keep the formats separate. I vote for keeping the 8mm home page the way it was, except for the addition of a link to the 16mm forum.

Status Quo Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2004 08:09 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
No worries. It will work fine. If anyone sees a problem building on a thread, just please drop me an email.

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted November 07, 2004 12:54 AM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I became a member of this Forum, I appreciated and recognized the difference in the tone of the threads posted here as opposed to other Forums.

The 8mm collectors that have remained in 8mm, are all indebted to the late Derek Simmons and other Pioneer Legends in the small format Film Community that have worked to make the picture and sound quality in 8mm, a commodity that rivals and surpasses larger film formats in many ways.

Who would have ever imagined all of the wonderful shorts, features, documentaries that have became available over the past twenty years when video was forcing this format to succumb to a screetching halt?

The creativity and sweat of Derek, the successors at Derann, including his proteges and competitors and collectors have kept this small and unique community thriving.

Try and find a James Bond print in 16mm? Or the Wizard of Oz? Gone With the Wind?
Many of these cost prohibited high ticket items in 16, are available in 8mm.
The Star Wars Trilogy in Scope and Stereo, and any feature that will fit into your closet and not take up and inordinate amount of valuble space?

It's Fascinating how Keith Wilton, John Bird, J.Clancy Kev, M.Peckham Ian, Paul Foster, P. Sheard, (to name a few) have done to promote, create and share this unique hobby format with the world. That's what they do, and the key word is SHARE in capital letters.

The quality of the topics on the Forum has been outstanding, and the replies to the invaluable subjects remain focused and on course with the theme. The collectors here are serious about this aspect in collection. The deviation is slight, but everyone is learning from each other and having a good time as well.

This is due to the integrity of the members. They appreciate the craft, and remain loyal to its origins. The chat is never boastful or mean spirited, or bitchy to one another.

My experience has been that many 16mm and large format collectors have lost the appreciation and sense of wonder that is valuable to film, let alone in this format.

Is it only me that has noticed that the larger format collector, (aside from the likes of K.Wilton and the gang) are just out to take and not give back? They others all seem to have all of the answers, and they say nothing.
Praise and appreciation on the other forums are few and far between.
Incidentally, the previous nonsense that circulated on the other Forums regarding someone by the name of B. Miller became ugly, and it should not be brought here, and I don't ever wish to hear the likes of this baloney again. They should all get lost. It is interesting to have additional topic threads for 16mm. But, I hope that this does not invite the troublemakers.
I would hope that larger format collectors, could value and appreciate and embrace our small gauge community too.

So Brad if need be, if you are considering a name change, please keep the name 8mm in the title. Perhaps 8mm plus, or 8mm Films and more.

As Christians say, Keep Christ in Christmas and don't make it 'X-Mas.' Likewise
please don't 'X' out the '8' in 'mm.' It is what this was all founded upon, and we should keep it that way. Please keep in mind the core membership here, they are the ones that have kept it flowing. Kev. is close to 600 posts and counting. If this is not dedication, and the building of a sense of community, then I don't what else is there?

Best,
Michael

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 07, 2004 02:51 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,

You have done a fantastic job of managing this forum and I agree with everyone who has posted. I still feel able to ask a "dumb" question and get away with just a bit of ribbing but I will at least get an answer somewhere! Not so on the 16mm forum. I have tried that and have given up as they are a narrow minded parochial miserable bunch of half wits. There, said it now and feel better!

The joy of this cinematic experience is the learning and experimenting. Why even the other day whilst patting Ian's friend Bella on the head I learnt about head flats and tail flats! (Thanks Grandpa!). No idea why they are important but hey it expanded my vocabulary and I can now Bull s**t with the rest!

By all means have a 16mm thread but let us maintain the integrity of this community and be prepared to take action against those who want to disrupt it.

[Smile]

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Tony

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 07, 2004 03:57 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
8mm+ That has a nice ring to it. Any other suggestions?

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Michael Bliss
Junior
Posts: 17
From: Radford, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 07, 2004 06:39 AM      Profile for Michael Bliss     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael De Angelis wrote, "My experience has been that many 16mm and large format collectors have lost the appreciation and sense of wonder that is valuable to film, let alone in this format." I coudln't disagree more strongly. I'm a member of many film forums, in all gauges of film, since I'm not only interested in film as a collector and teacher of cinema, but n the whole film experience. I seriously doubt that the attitude that Michael mentions is true of the overwhelming majority of collectors, regardless of gauge, although I'll grant that there's a bit of elitism among 35mm collectors. Nonetheless, virtually ALL collectors love film for itself, regardless of the size of the film stock.

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Tom Mc Kenzie
Film Handler

Posts: 34
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2004


 - posted November 07, 2004 07:10 AM      Profile for Tom Mc Kenzie   Email Tom Mc Kenzie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dear Brad

16mm on the 8mm site. Please no they have enough sites of their
own. I collect 16mm but honestly one look at the 16mm internet forums was enough for me. I didnt know what planet I was on and they seem to be in permanent war with each other.

Tom

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 07, 2004 08:47 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael, you'll find the chat and banter on this forum is of a much friendlier nature. I'm a member of the 35mm forum but rarely go there now as it's just not safe to put a post up without others tearing you to pieces. Obviously it's not all collectors who are like this but it only takes a couple to make a forum unusable.

This one has no such problems.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Barry Attwood
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1411
From: Enfield, U.K.
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted November 07, 2004 08:51 AM      Profile for Barry Attwood   Email Barry Attwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dear Brad,

If we have to have another name for the 8mm forum, how about a term that is often applied to 8mm film "Bootlace", so how about the "Bootlace Forum", I think that has a ring to it. What do others think?

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