8mm Forum


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | my password | register | search | faq | register | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » DERANN AND STEVE OSBORNE (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: DERANN AND STEVE OSBORNE
Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 12, 2009 07:39 AM      Profile for Gary Crawford   Email Gary Crawford   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just got off the phone with Steve Osborne of the Reel Image. As you know, he handles product from Derann and other distributors. He obtains films for us collectors in the U.S....and handles returns and shipping for defective prints...thus saving us money and hassles. HOWEVER, he has just told me that Derann is no longer offering him the small discount on films he sells here. He says he makes only a dollar or two already on shorts and trailers from England. He distributes them to make them available easily to American customers. He has told Derann that unless they can grant him the discount that , he, as a dealer, has gotten for many years, he will have to stop handling their product. This would be a blow for many of collectors in the U.S. Yes, we can order direct from Derann, but if there are defective prints, we would be paying the considerable shipping to return them...and we wouldn't have the pull that Steve has, since he orders thousands of dollars worth of films at a time for his customers. I'm therefore urging my U.S. collectors who buy through Steve for the convenience and price to email Derann and ask them to reverse their decision on his dealer discount. thanks.

 |  IP: Logged

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10117
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted June 12, 2009 09:41 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree Gary. Steve Osbourne has been a god-send for many of us US collectors.

Personally, I think this is just Derann attempting to put the "screws" on Steve to see if he'll budge and give in. Derann, in this day and age, even though it's hard enough to move prints, really can't afford to loose a distributor of thier films. As far as I know, that would leave "Dave Thomas Films" as the sole distributor in America, and his prices are higher than Steve's.

... and Steve does so much more for the collector!

Derann must be feeling the pressure as well. They're film magazine is on the brink of extinction, and now this. They no doubt have to cinch in they're collective "belts" a notch or two, to make ends meet.

However, if I was Steve, I wouldn't give in. Besides, with a profit margin of only a dollar or so; you take that away, where is the incentive to sell Derann materials? None. Derann must take this into account.

I know that Steve, quite frankly is nowhere near making a killing on all of his film stuff. If you compare how many services, advice and even freebies he sends out, he's way in the hole, profit wise.

Stand your ground Steve!

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

 |  IP: Logged

James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1374
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted June 12, 2009 10:33 AM      Profile for James N. Savage 3   Email James N. Savage 3   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve is a great guy, and I understand his delimma, as well as Derann's. But in reality, Derann is probably only making a very small profit from super 8, so they honestly may not be able to offer a discount anymore.

What would be more likely, would be for Steve to raise his prices on new Derann products, so he can continue to offer us in the USA the convenience of buying through him, and still make a small profit. The thing about super 8 is, if its something I want, I don't mind paying a little extra.

I think if collectors want to see new, fresh super 8 prints in the future, we have to be willing to go with inflation.

James.

 |  IP: Logged

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10117
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted June 12, 2009 11:58 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Really, thats not a bad idea James, (Steve, raising his price slightly), unless Steve has "pushed the envelope" as much as he can.

It should be interesting as to what happens.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

 |  IP: Logged

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3083
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted June 12, 2009 01:15 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Osi,

Weren't you thinking about getting into production of S8 prints over there?
If Derann (via Steve Osbourne) pull out there's an opportunity for ya!!
Think outside the box, sir.
[Wink]

-Mike

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4065
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 12, 2009 01:48 PM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What if (and I've suggested it to Gary), Derann were to open an American subsidiary here? With lab and technicians on the spot to aid collectors. If so, I say Steve should manage it, and I'd definitely forward an application to work with him, no foolin' - I feel we have plenty of collectors alike to warrant a Derann USA outlet - Please let Steve continue maintaining and catering to the loyal collector, Derann - From Shorty

 |  IP: Logged

Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 12, 2009 01:58 PM      Profile for Gary Crawford   Email Gary Crawford   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think opening up a lab here is feasible. The negs would have to be shipped back and forth ..plus labs all over this country and Europe are folding up...or have already gone. The capital investment would never be paid back on the strenght of super 8 film sales. It's just not going to happen.

 |  IP: Logged

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3083
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted June 12, 2009 02:04 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree - in fact I'm getting the feeling that the days of new Super 8 product are numbered, even in the UK here. Just a hunch.

-Mike

 |  IP: Logged

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10117
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted June 12, 2009 03:17 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think your right , Micheal.

Its not that there isn't a market for Super 8, I think it's the brains behind the marketing. We saw in two of Derann's big releases some bad choices.

I must preface this in saying that this is my opinion.

For instance, "End of Days". An Arnold film that basically bombed in the theaters, (for the most part, don't know all the overseas totals), yet it got a 600ft release.

The last feature release, "Master and Commander". While there are a goodly number of UK buyers for a "Britian rules the seas" style picture ...

(PLEASE NOTE: there is no anti UK bias intended)

It wasn't a "international Friendly" picture. It did well in some areas, but not others. I think the evidence of this is how many DVD copies I see all over the place in garage sales, flea markets and pawn shops.

Its really very sad, and I don't laugh about it. In a business where the die-hard customers are the only ones that REALLY keep your business afloat, that you don't really release to they're desires, and I haven't seen that for awhile.

I think another problem, (especially with Derann) is that, while Derann released incredible prints of Disney features; with a limited number of people collecting Super 8 anyhow, it really would be a rather short time before all of those who are willing to shell out a good deal of money for a new feature, dry up.

Except for us romantic fools, there won't be many more Super 8 releases impending. I am still weighing my options. Once I get my trailer I just received from DINO conditioned with Camphor, it is DEFINITELY going to be my trailer release, if I was to ever release trailers, (it is a whopping five minutes long!).

To be honest, when I release my advert reels (or one 400ft reel, which I would honestly rather do), they will be limited release, unless a much bigger market for them is out there, which I doubt.
I wouldn't be surprised if by the time I get these released on Super 8, they will have already released primo collections of them on DVD. As of right now, no one has, (at least, not high quality releases.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4065
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 12, 2009 03:58 PM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know the realities, still if some industry could back the idea of a lab (Kodak), negs have to circulate from England to here anyway, so why not the reverse as an export procedure? It's not impossible, nor is it feasible, but I'm a strong proponent to the idea of 'Why not?' - We love our films, then there's a way - Shorty

 |  IP: Logged

Lance Alspaugh
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 151
From: Los Angeles, Ca
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 12, 2009 04:06 PM      Profile for Lance Alspaugh   Email Lance Alspaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gentlemen,

Another opinion for opinions, perhaps a change in the films being released on S8 might keep in underway in the future. Super 8 is a vintage technology today, so instead of releasing high end modern releases that test the limits of S8, back to basics with Classic, Vintage films that are timeless and highly collectible. Specifically titles that have not been or are in release such as Classic Home Cinema "Day the Earth Stood Still", the Hammer Film Series, 60's comedys, the 70's had terrific films that are considered classics. Any of the AFI titles. Even something like "Paper Moon", oscar winner, black and white and likely to be enjoyed presented on film. Digital Cinema is coming so it seems S8 may find a novelty future by showcasing the past and not the present. Most modern films have highly produced sound tracks and in my experience, most new S8 prints fall short in their ability to reproduce acceptable sound from the DVD due to the quality of the mag stripes. Sound on Older titles, since they are indeed older, may come off better to our audiences. I like some of you remix the sound when I receive prints and with few exceptions the new prints are just not up to the mag stripes of 30 years ago. There have been improvements in the new sound stripes recently however that hopefully will continue. We'll just have to wait and listen.

Thanks and a big thank you to all of those that have kept this Forum going, interesting and helpful to readers like me. I will try to participate more in the future.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6901
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 12, 2009 04:07 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since M&C sold out I'd say it was at least as good a choice as it needed to be.

I think very often the film services have to juggle the balance between what we want and what is available for them to distribute. Many of the studios aren't interested at all in seeing their films come out on Super-8 so very often what we want is impossible for them to get.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3083
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted June 12, 2009 05:07 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just out of interest - as I don't collect Super 8 at all - what is the quality of these "brand new" prints that Derann and Classic release? For instance, Classic's GHOST OF FRANKENSTEIN - what's the source? Is the result a pin sharp print or soft and dupey looking?

The reason I ask is that I bought a new print of a certain L&H short a few years back from one of the UK companies - but the source was just another 16mm print. So, it was indeed a brand new print but, was essentially a dupe and looked and sounded like one.

Are brand new Super8 prints from these companies really high quality prints or is the attraction just the fact that they are brand new prints?

-Mike

 |  IP: Logged

Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted June 12, 2009 05:22 PM      Profile for Dino Everette   Email Dino Everette   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think it is like everything, which is why keeping alive stuff like Film for the collector/ the reel image is also important because that is where the reviews are (alas like this site as well) I am sure that the places still releasing prints are weighing their options carefully and are probably getting more selective in terms of what they will use for source material. For Instance (don't tell Osi [Eek!] ) but I gave one place a certain IB tech never been played long trailer to try and release in hopes it might spark some interest. If they don't then Osi can, but is it as good as the original color seps? no, is it better than probably anything that is out there for this trailer yes....There are lots of variables in making new prints that cannot be answered simply....I think the overall point is keeping the interest and money in new prints so that the hobby has new material being introduced which can help spark new interest. If everything that is available is just steadily getting older then the only market will be the hoard anything good and price gouge. I would like to see Steve raise the prices slightly and keep importing. Because even with raised prices his are still more fair than most. As for features I think the days of those are ending because even now new ones are fairly out of reach for most of us.

--------------------
"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

 |  IP: Logged

Lance Alspaugh
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 151
From: Los Angeles, Ca
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 12, 2009 05:47 PM      Profile for Lance Alspaugh   Email Lance Alspaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael,

In this Forum Members opinion, the Derann picture quality has been outstanding in most respects. Color, Saturation, Contrast for the most part fairly impressive. The German Import prints are getting better but in my opinion have a tendancy to be on the green side. I have read that some Derann prints have a blue tendancy, but I would say that is more tolerable to green. Sound on the mag stripes is another issue. Not blaming here because it is a minor miracle that we have ANY new S8 product in the Digital Age. But it is unfortunate that the mag stripes cannot seem to measure up to the picture quality.

Bottom line as new prints go, Derann is unmatched at the moment.

LA

 |  IP: Logged

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10117
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted June 12, 2009 09:18 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can vouch for the fact of recent releases and they're image quality. I have one from a few years back, "The Mark of Zorro"
(scope) and the color is great and the sharpness is quite nice.

The recent "sci-fi" release (SW 3, is that enough of a hint?) has an image that I would stand up against ANY 16MM PRINT! That is no joke, and while Derann has reached this level of sharpness, it is quite outstanding.

As Lance said, the mag stripe can be another thing al-together, but I was amazed at just how good of a job our very own ...

LANCE ALSPAUGH (shameless plug)

... did at bringing even very good sound out of the balance stripe. Not 6 channel digital surround sound, mind you, but very decent Dolby surround, none the less.

I had forgotten about you sending that same trailer over to CHC.
Lets see if he is willing to release it. I'd certainly buy it.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1166
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 12, 2009 11:44 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As I've said before, if DERANN released the Universal 8/Castle Films Canon....."What Larks we'll have my boy, what larks!"

 |  IP: Logged

John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 13, 2009 03:21 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm very surprised by the criticism of 'Master and Commander'. It may not have gone down well in the USA (which I find hard to believe) but whatever anyone thinks of 'Britain Rules the Waves' as opposed to the usual work of fiction prevalent in most films it is still an excellent film regardless. Some may not like it personally but there's no getting away from the fact that is it an excellent film.

Rather than criticize Derann for this one I congratulate them on a great choice, born out by the sales. 'End of Days' was selected because it was available and there is a big Arnie following. Some of us may not like it but at least they put something new onto the market. I'm happier with anything coming out rather than nothing.

The situation with Steve Osborne seems to be a bit of a cock-up but I don't think that means we should be slagging off one of the few remaining Super 8 companies off... unless we'll all be happy to see the hobby completely dead and buried.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

 |  IP: Logged

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3083
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted June 13, 2009 03:28 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks chaps for your replies.
Yes, I understand that the Derann prints are pretty good. I believe their 16mm LONESOME GHOSTS is excellent.
Has anybody had GHOST OF FRANKENSTEIN on 16mm from CHC?

-Mike

 |  IP: Logged

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10117
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted June 13, 2009 09:51 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have noted, already 8 of the Master and Commander prints being re-sold here and there. I don't know how many were printed, but i have kept count. Either people bought it to watch it once, or it wasn't a keeper. Oh well, enough dog piling on Master and Commander. I'll give it a rest.

Just so all you fellows know in the UK, no bad feelings towards you from the Ole Osi, just a comment, ("Britain rules the Seas" comment; didn't mean to ruffle feathers).

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

 |  IP: Logged

Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2902
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted June 13, 2009 10:08 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Regarding one of the above points: although I have no idea if Derann or Classic would consider having prints made by a lab in the USA, it would be interesting to know if a US lab exists that would be willing to provide a good service with regard to producing Super 8 prints at a reasonable price. Although no one is going to make a lot of money releasing Super 8 nowadays, I think the labs have made a significant contribution to the decline, considering the numbers of prints I've seen in recent years with green/blue tints, poor lab splices, negative scratches, unsteady frame lines, etc. The slow service is also important; e.g. Ged once told me that new Derann trailer releases ceased to be viable because they were much easier to sell around the time when the film was released, and lab delays meant that this was no longer possible.

Therefore, I'm inclined to think that finding a lab in the USA (or anywhere) that could offer a good service would be a shot in the arm for Super 8.

Regarding CHC's GHOST OF FRANKENSTEIN, I once saw a clip on Super 8 and it was nicely graded and moderately sharp, definitely not dupey looking. And being on b/w stock, there's no green tint! If it was a film I had wanted, I would have bought it.

--------------------
Adrian Winchester

 |  IP: Logged

John Hourigan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 301
From: Colorado U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted June 13, 2009 11:15 PM      Profile for John Hourigan   Email John Hourigan       Edit/Delete Post 
Agree with Lance -- it is amazing to believe that, in 2009, there is ANY new Super 8 product (to run on 30+ year-old projectors). I would be more than happy to pay slighty more for new Derann prints for the convenience of being able to order through Steve.

I can't speak for Steve, but it's obvious that he does what he does for the love of the hobby. As a result, we collectors are truly fortunate to have the services of Steve.

And while it's fun to track down used prints, we collectors really need to buy new prints from time to time to support the efforts of Derann and Classic Home Cinema.

 |  IP: Logged

John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Deptford,N.J.
Registered: Mar 2008


 - posted June 14, 2009 12:38 AM      Profile for John W. Black   Author's Homepage   Email John W. Black   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I may be greedy,but I want Steve and Derann in business,maybe they can work out a consignment sort of arrangement.If we lose them,I dread the idea of what the only alternative left would be.Maybe if we take some of our auction bucks and dsend them they way of the real dealers,we can keep this hobby going.And,no,this isn't about bashing,(what a laff!)it's about survival of our hobby.These people have given their lives to our hobby and are the real heroes of 8mm.I'm going to order something off the Derann list right now.Suggest you do too,even a small order.If you have a friend close by,order together and combine shipping.Remember,it is up to us if the hobby survives.

--------------------
Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

 |  IP: Logged

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3083
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted June 14, 2009 03:39 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
......given their lives to our hobby.........the real heroes of 8mm..........!!!!!

Sorry, but.........

[Big Grin] [Big Grin]

 |  IP: Logged

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10117
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted June 14, 2009 03:09 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Honestly I would order something new from Derann, if there was something they currently have, that I wanted. It would be another whole story if I was totally made of money, I would buy everything new out there whether I wanted it or not, just to support the hobby.

Hell, though I don't have much money, I'm prepared to make that one reel of ads on super 8, just because of the love of this medium, whether it is a widespread release, or a one run off.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2