8mm Forum: Broken Elmo GS1200

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Topic: Broken Elmo GS1200

Alexander Vandeputte
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 243
From: Belgium
Registered: Nov 2009

posted January 04, 2010 02:39 PM

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I received an Elmo GS1200 through Ebay. It was supposed to be in perfect condition. But when it arrived it was clearly very poorly packaged and had suffered. The back cover was tilted upwards so I feared the worst. I removed the back cover and could happily place it back correctly. But when I started the machine it had a non-functioning take-up motor. That is: when I press forward everything works except for the take-up motor that is not running at all.

The seller offers either a reduction or a full refund when I ship the unit back.

My question is: should I ship it back or go for the refund ? What is the worth of this machine in its current state and taking in account that I would need to spend extra money to have this machine fixed.

Elmo GS1200, version 3. Motors all bear dates between May and July 1985.
Lens is 1,1 / 12,5-25mm.

Thanks for your advice.

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009

posted January 04, 2010 02:43 PM

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I would do a full check-up on it or/and let a electrician or other expert have a look at it.

Clearly, it's the sellers fault, so you deserve somewhat of a refund anyway.

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 04, 2010 02:48 PM

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Hi Alex,

If you don't mind to mention what is the price for the projector (without shipping) and what is the cost of shipping back from your place to the seller (which this will be your cost), then we can give you a better judgment.

regards,

--------------------
Winbert

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Greg Marshall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 612
From: Nashville, TN USA
Registered: Sep 2008

posted January 04, 2010 06:33 PM

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Aren't the takeup motors still available as replacements for the GS?

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 05, 2010 04:28 AM

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Make sure the ESS switch is in the normal position. If it's in sync' pulse mode then the machine is not going to function correctly. Although I think the take up motor still turns even when ESS in engaged.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Alexander Vandeputte
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 243
From: Belgium
Registered: Nov 2009

posted January 05, 2010 07:06 AM

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The machine cost me 780€ with another 40€ for shipping.

ESS switch is in the normal position.

I believe that Mr. Faulkner previously stated on this forum that those motors are not readily available as spares. It is also my understanding that, due to the several existing versions of this machine, take up and rewind motors are not so easy interchangeable between machines.

Still hesitating between full refund or hoping to repair this machine...

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 05, 2010 07:38 AM

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Those motors are no longer available as spares.

Both motors work together. So in Forward both motors will turn its down to the clutches at the bottom of the reel arms which control which spool spindles turn.

Remove the back again and see if it is one or both motors which do not turn. Try forward and reverse. Looking at the motors you can see the ends of the spindles and which are turning etc. It may be that you have a duff motor or it could simply be a bad connection etc.

Let us know, Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 05, 2010 09:03 AM

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quote:
The machine cost me 780€ with another 40€ for shipping.

Alexander, I will say that you better send it back to the seller for a full refund.

EUR 780 is equal to US$ 1124. Just a month ago, a member of this forum (Claus) purchased the same version 3 in mint condition ( although packaging was terrible). It was much cheaper than yours, i.e $900 and the seller was told to have some more machines for sale.

Here is his thread: http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005073

So you were just ripped off with that price.

If you send the projector back, you will only loose EUR 40 or if the seller is a nice gentleman, he would take half of that shipping cost.

Regarding the motor, Kev, isn't the motor equal with Sankyo 800's?

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Alexander Vandeputte
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 243
From: Belgium
Registered: Nov 2009

posted January 05, 2010 02:40 PM

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Winbert,

I was aware of the South American Elmo on Ebay. But you have to bear in mind, that when one buys outside the European Union one has to pay custom duty when the item arrives here. This offsets the dollar/euro difference almost completely. In Europe the GS1200 sells for anything between 700 and 1.500 €. So I don't think 780€ is a rip off. Of course when the machine doesn't work...

Kevin,

When pressing both forward/reverse, the rewind/reverse motor is functioning. What is an easy way to establish wether a bad connection is involved or the motor is broken ?

Am I right in thinking that since this was a "late machine" (motor labels between May/July 1985)it would be worth to try to fix it?

Thanks

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Josef Grassmann
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 190
From: Hennef-Sieg, Germany
Registered: Apr 2005

posted January 05, 2010 03:37 PM

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Check as Kevin has described.
In addition there can be broken gears 1 or 2 inside gearbox, behind motor.
Or larger gear near gearbox, on axle through take up arm (bottom end).

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted January 05, 2010 04:55 PM

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Hi, there!
The claw motor of the GS 1200 is th same as the Sankyo 800, but the arm motors are totally different.

(in fact the Sankyo has got just one motor...)

--------------------
Maurizio

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 05, 2010 05:25 PM

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Josef, Thats a good point. If it can be seen that the motor is turning when viewed from the rear then I would agree about the cogs which are available from FFR in Germany.

I have just bought some from them for another machine in need.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Alexander Vandeputte
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 243
From: Belgium
Registered: Nov 2009

posted January 06, 2010 11:22 AM

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The take up motor is definitley not running. Spindle is not moving when playing forward/reverse.

I will nonetheless check for broken/jammed cogs. How do I establish wether a broken connection is involved, or a broken motor altogether ?

In the meantime I would like to thank everyone for taking the time and posting reply's.

Thanks,

Alexander

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 06, 2010 04:33 PM

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It could be a problem with the relay on the main board. I had the same problem with one of my GS1220'S, with the take up motor not running or running intermitently. I replaced the relay and all has been fine since then.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Josef Grassmann
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 190
From: Hennef-Sieg, Germany
Registered: Apr 2005

posted January 07, 2010 03:20 PM

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when you remove motor-gearbox-unit cracks in small plastic gears are easily visiable. They can block motor. It normaly starts with a rattling noise and unsteady take up function as long as crack is small. As soon as crack becomes bigger it blocks the gears completely.
If unsure unscrew motor from gearbox and watch for smooth runing motor. Take care for line voltage 240V~ on projector!!
Take up Motor needs less than 10V DC.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 07, 2010 04:14 PM

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A lot can be learned by the voltage on the motor. If there is voltage there and nothing is turning it's the motor or something it's trying to turn. If it isn't there it's the circuitry that powers the motor.

Even a cheap voltmeter can tell you a lot. I have them stashed all over the place because finding myself without one can be costly!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 07, 2010 05:22 PM

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Check to see if the rewind motors spindle is turning in each direction. If that isnt then you have an electrical problem. As I said earlier both motors should be turning. If neither turn then it's electrical and could be a number of things. If its just the take-up motor then it could be jammed by a broken cog or the motor has failed.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Alexander Vandeputte
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 243
From: Belgium
Registered: Nov 2009

posted January 11, 2010 01:37 AM

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When I took out the rear motor, it worked allright! After I put everything back together (less simple than it sounds), the take up arm is fully functioning.So this appears to be a case of jammed cogs.
Thank you to everyone for providing me their opinions and advice. Otherwise I would never have dared to open up the back and take it appart. (My technical knowledge being more theoretical than practical...)

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 11, 2010 04:18 AM

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As both motors are wired in parallel it rules out electrical problems such as relays etc if one of the motors is running. Both motors run whatever mode the machine is in.
If one motor does not work then it is either a bad connection to the motor, something mechanical or the motor itself has died.

I'm glad that in this case it was a simple mecahnical fix. I just hope it isnt one of those cogs breaking down and cracking.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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