8mm Forum: Tape or cement for unions?

»	8mm Forum » 8mm Forum » Tape or cement for unions?

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

Author

Topic: Tape or cement for unions?

Julian Baquero
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 165
From: Bogota, Colombia
Registered: Mar 2011

posted July 29, 2011 08:42 AM

I would like to know which is consider better and long lasting method to splice together a film, cement or tape? pros and cons?

| IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 29, 2011 02:36 PM

Cement is better where cement works (acetate), tape is better where cement doesn't (polyester).

It is easier to make a good tape splice than a good cement splice, but a good cement splice is basically welding the film and is permanent as humanly possible.

Loads of people think tape is better...but I got here first!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

| IP: Logged

Nick Field
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 102
From: Herefordshire England
Registered: Jul 2010

posted July 29, 2011 03:56 PM

But would it be possible to splice acetate and poly together?

| IP: Logged

Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 29, 2011 04:04 PM

don't think anybody's tried that, my guess it would not work?

--------------------
jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

| IP: Logged

John Davis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 286
From: Dunfermline, Fife, UK
Registered: Jun 2008

posted July 29, 2011 04:37 PM

You can certainly splice the two types (acetate and polyester) together with a tape splice but I'm guessing the film bases being different thicknesses will mean you have to refocus the projector at each change of base type

| IP: Logged

Julian Baquero
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 165
From: Bogota, Colombia
Registered: Mar 2011

posted July 30, 2011 06:28 PM

Is there a way of knowing for eye inspection if a film is polyester or acetate?

| IP: Logged

Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 30, 2011 08:45 PM

I've always liked tape over cement. My cement splices have always come apart for some reason and I can't quite get the hang of the scraping off the emulsion prior to splicing.

| IP: Logged

John Davis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 286
From: Dunfermline, Fife, UK
Registered: Jun 2008

posted July 31, 2011 07:07 AM

Julian,
my method of telling polyester apart from Acetate is to let a decent length of the film just hang off the reel; Polyester tends to have little or no curve memory and will normally hang straight down,
John

| IP: Logged

Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted July 31, 2011 09:20 AM

Also you can hold the side of a reel with film against a source of lught: if it's poly, it will let much more light through than acetate, and will have a whitish apparence.

--------------------
Maurizio

| IP: Logged

Ilias Sifakis
Film Handler

Posts: 96
From: Athens, Greece
Registered: Jan 2011

posted August 01, 2011 12:39 PM

I know that this may sound silly, but is there any tutorial or video explaining how to do a connection with tape??

I have a couple of tape splicers that a friend gave, but I haven't actually figure out how to properly do a connection. I always get bulky and oversized connections.

I have no problems with cement splicers though...

| IP: Logged

Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 01, 2011 02:33 PM

Most tape splices should not be bulky the ends should join together and the tape holds the two together some splicer’s have perforation punches which punch the holes in the tape for you or if you use the Kodak press tapes the holes are already in the tape.

--------------------
jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

| IP: Logged

Joseph Banfield
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: FRANCE
Registered: Jun 2010

posted November 13, 2011 07:46 AM

From my experience with cement, it does not hold up in the long run and just falls apart in the projector as the splices age. Tape however, holds up very well indeed! People claim film cement actually welds the film together but give that same film a quarter turn a year or so later and it will pop right apart in your hands, which means it is indeed a very weak weld. Even scrapping both pieces of film before applying cement seems to make little difference in the final strength. There is nothing more annoying than having a film come apart during projection because of a weak cement splice.

| IP: Logged

Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted November 13, 2011 08:32 AM

Fresh glue is important in making durable cement splices. If the glue is starting to look opaque in the bottle, it is getting old.

I use both tape and cement and have had perhaps 3-4 cement splices come apart. The rest, made from about 1977 on, run fine to this day.

For cement, I highly recommend a Hahnel or similar motorized splicer, with the burr-wheel which automatically scrapes the emulsion correctly prior to the application of glue.

Claus.

[ November 13, 2011, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Claus Harding ]

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

| IP: Logged

Joseph Banfield
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: FRANCE
Registered: Jun 2010

posted November 14, 2011 03:35 PM

Claus, I just picked up one of those Hähnel motorized splicers at a flea market here in France on Sunday for a couple of Euros and must admit that I am totally intrigued by this contraption. I do use fresh cement at all times but have never been crazy about how these splices hold up in the long run as I said in a previous post. What I am crazy about with this splicer, however is how almost flat the splice is compared to any cement splicer I have ever used in the past. It is virtually the same thickness of the film itself, which can pass the film gate even easier than a tape splice! I just love the way this splicer bevels both edges of the film into an almost perfect wedge shape...I'm hoping the splices will hold that I have made with this splicer and would love to be using film cement again instead of tape!!!

| IP: Logged

Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted November 14, 2011 03:51 PM

Joseph,

Excellent! Just make sure you have a small air blower (like a rubber bulb type) to blow the emulsion dust off the two ends of film after the scraping, before applying the cement.

Good Luck!

Claus.

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

| IP: Logged

All times are Central

Printer-friendly view of this topic

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2