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Author Topic: Star Wars Feature print question..
Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 16, 2012 11:39 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So I just received a copy of Star Wars on Super 8 Full Length feature. Its a little different as it is not in Stereo, has slight bars on the top and bottom, is not called a "New Hope", and in some cases is superior to the Derann Version. Oh- and the Greedo sequence has the subtitles. I think Ricky has this version as well. Can anyone tell me something more about this if you know? Its a very nice print, soft in some spots but the colors are dead on and its as original as you can get to the version that came out in 1977.

[ February 17, 2012, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: Alan Rik ]

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Ricky Daniels
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: London & Kent UK
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 - posted February 17, 2012 07:24 AM      Profile for Ricky Daniels   Email Ricky Daniels   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Alan,

My print has CineaVision style 'side-bars' with the original 2.35:1 ratio maintained in the 2.66:1 Super 8mm CinemaScope frame and not cropped at the top and bottom like the Derann version, is not titled 'A NEW HOPE", has the 'open' captions and is 6x400'. I believe it was an 'unofficial' US release. I also have the Derann version, each has it's virtues.

Best,
Rick

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Pasquale DAlessio
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From: Bristol,RI, USA
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 - posted February 17, 2012 07:33 AM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio   Email Pasquale DAlessio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
May the force be with you! [Smile]

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James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1375
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted February 17, 2012 10:27 AM      Profile for James N. Savage 3   Email James N. Savage 3   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Alan that sounds like a good find!

Is it a scope print, or is it a flat print thats been letterboxed for a scope effect??

James.

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John Skujins
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Registered: Mar 2009


 - posted February 17, 2012 10:47 AM      Profile for John Skujins   Email John Skujins   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are letterboxed flat prints? That means the picture is cropped on the left, right, top, and bottom. That must look horrible.

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Alan Rik
Film God

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From: New York City, NY, USA
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 - posted February 17, 2012 11:46 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is a scope print. One of the best things is that there is no negative damage at the end of the reels so it doesn't have those little white flecks at the reel changes. In fact some of the best colors is when Luke meets Obi Wan for the first time. However it did have some strange splices that turned out not to be splices but were actually printed into the print I have. Meaning that the splices were on the original that they made this print from.
Right around the part where Obi Wan says, "Thats no moon. Its a Space station."
Ricky, does your print have this strange splice?

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Osi Osgood
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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted February 17, 2012 12:45 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Alan ....

You did find quite a rare thing indeed or, at least, it's the much rarer version of the Star Wars scope feature. I'm glad to hear that your's doesn't have any color fade, as these prints, from what I remember, were NOT printed on low fade stock (could super 8 feature you verify the stock please?)

... and, as stated in the above posts, it is truly in the original aspect ratio which is, unsqueezed ... a near perfect square.

Now, I'm not quite sure, to this day, as to who printed this, but it may well be the fellow, (I'm assuming the masculine, as I don't know any women who did super 8 releases), who also released "The Empire Strikes Back" as a Cineavision style print, (side bars on the left and right, as yours has), and that "Empire" print I have.

Now, I can verify that my "Empire" print is on a (thankfully) unfaded kodak SP. Well, the blacks are not completely spot on, but they are as close as you could ask, and the color saturation on this print is really glorious.

Once again, a great find Alan! Hold onto that print, to be sure!

On a last note, I wonder if this person ever released a "Cineavision" style scope feature of "Return of the Jedi"? That would be a stretch to be sure, as that would be after the main heyday of super 8 and in the "decline", but hey, I never expected to find a "Cineavision" style scope of Empire!

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Hugh Thompson Scott
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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted February 17, 2012 04:45 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Dear Kevin,I'm afraid I've got to tell you that women were
involved in the release of Super 8. Susan Turner was the head of
U8 and Wendy Moorhen was the head of Iver Films in the UK!
LETS HEAR IT FOR THE GIRLS!

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted February 17, 2012 05:06 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK...

Star Wars has a 35mm aspect ratio of 2.35:1

70mm prints aspect ratio 2.20:1

Alan, can you post a screen shot or scan of the native frame of your super 8 print so we can compare it to original aspect theatrical prints.

Derann's beautiful prints were, of course, cropped top and bottom due to the aspect ratio of super 8 (unlike official cineavision, but let's leave that for now).

Intriguing...

PS. As for the head of U8 at the end...let's not go there!!! [Wink]

PPS. Isn't the only way to present original aspect scope variations on super 8 by side masking??? Like Cineavision did? What would be the point of top/bottom masking???

PPPS. Osi, with regard to your "Empire" print; do you mean it looks almost square without anamorphic lens, but with full image top to bottom of frame? BTW hope we are still on talking terms [Wink]

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
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 - posted February 17, 2012 06:02 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob with respect, Susan Turner was there at the beginning for
U8 and was responsible for some of the best digests to come from this company.Kevin didn't know of any women responsible for S/8
releases well I mention two that put out some very important
titles during their time and it is definately worth going there when
credit is due.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted February 17, 2012 06:41 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hugh, with respect, you are right.

I take back my [Wink]

Sorry. We all make mistakes.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted February 17, 2012 07:05 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
That's very gracious of you Rob but theres no need,mistakes,we
all make 'em,thats what this forum's all about plus keeping the
hobby alive and active with the sharing of information.

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Robert Babun
Junior
Posts: 19
From: Perth Australia
Registered: Dec 2009


 - posted February 18, 2012 12:56 AM      Profile for Robert Babun   Email Robert Babun   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow! A great find.
Alan, by any chance did you obtain this print from Australia?
If so, was it from an ebay user with the ID "glenenterprises2009"?
There was an auction for a "Star Wars" super 8 full length print, but the listing ended early! The seller did say the print was on 400' spools though.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

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From: Essex, UK
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 - posted February 18, 2012 02:15 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Who the blazes is Kevin, Hugh?

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Larry Arpin
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Sunland, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted February 18, 2012 02:21 AM      Profile for Larry Arpin   Author's Homepage   Email Larry Arpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I bought Ricky Daniels print of the Cineavision-style STAR WARS. I was hoping it was the Derann version, I didn't ask, but I wasn't thrilled with the sharpness and eventually sold it to someone in Canada who later ask me the origin of the print like all of us are asking.

Many eons ago I had an Empire Strikes Back scope print but it was overall bluish-green and eventually sold that.

There was a version of Return that was released that had the last 40 minutes, a reel 2, in scope with jagged frame lines, and a flat 200 foot reel that had the Rancor, Desert battle, & speeder bike sequence. I've seen for sale the 200 footer and the last 40 minutes on Ebay.

As I always do on my auctions I had a screen shot or 2 of the Cineavision SW, but I must have deleted it as I cannot find it.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
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 - posted February 18, 2012 04:46 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Michael,is Kevin not Osi's real monoiker?

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Joe Taffis
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From: United States
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 - posted February 18, 2012 09:35 AM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rik, this may be one of the un-authorized feature prints that were rumored to have been made from negatives that were licensed for the purpose of editing down to 200' and 400' digests.

--------------------
Joe Taffis

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Adam Deierling
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 717
From: OH
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted February 18, 2012 09:54 AM      Profile for Adam Deierling   Email Adam Deierling   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just out of curiosity, what is the price comparison to the Derann Scope print vs the CineaVision print you guys are talking about? I know the Derann can go for over $1000 in good condition.

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Alan Rik
Film God

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From: New York City, NY, USA
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 - posted February 18, 2012 10:06 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No I got mine from a private seller here in the states. Its a dilemma!
As Ricky says there are merits to both prints. I have both the Derann and this one. While the Derann print was taken from a newer negative, its the New Hope Version.
This one has the opening just like the original that I remember seeing in 1977. Also the Derann version on Tattooine looks a little washed out where Luke is with Obi Wan. (on my copy anyways). On this one it looks very good. And the scene in the Cantina has the subtitles for Greedo which is very cool.
I'll have to watch it again. [Smile]
I did see the original one in the Theatres around 27 times when it first came out. I remember every weekend going to see it and on some days it was sold out. And this was after 6 or 7 months of it being released!

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Osi Osgood
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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted February 18, 2012 12:35 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My full legal name is ....

Kevin Shawn OSI Sparrowawk Thorton Osgood

No kidding. Whenn I began my first career (didn't go far) in music years ago, I liked OSI so much, (and hated Kevin for reasons I won't go into) that I made OSI an official part of my name.

Lets put it this way, all my frienjds call me OSI and it is my official title.

Yes, my print of "Empire Strikes Back" is, without using the scope lense and just looking at the image on the super 8 print, a perfect, or near perfect, square; with black bars on the left and right side.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted February 18, 2012 12:36 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My full legal name is ....

Kevin Shawn OSI Sparrowawk Thorton Osgood

No kidding. Whenn I began my first career (didn't go far) in music years ago, I liked OSI so much, (and hated Kevin for reasons I won't go into) that I made OSI an official part of my name.

Lets put it this way; all my friends call me OSI and it is my official title.

Yes, my print of "Empire Strikes Back" is, without using the scope lense and just looking at the image on the super 8 print, a perfect, or near perfect, square; with black bars on the left and right side.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

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From: Bristol,RI, USA
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 - posted February 18, 2012 12:52 PM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio   Email Pasquale DAlessio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OZ

Your name is so long it had to be put in 2 posts! [Razz]

PatD

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Ricky Daniels
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 587
From: London & Kent UK
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted February 18, 2012 01:36 PM      Profile for Ricky Daniels   Email Ricky Daniels   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Alan,

Yes I've had a few copies of this version in my time the joins you are reporting I'm sure are from the pre-print material. I've checked the copy I have here and there are neg joins from the original 35mm Panavision negative too. These negative joins are usually just out of frame when projected in the 35mm format. Also 2.35:1 negative joining is far more tricky than 1.85:1 because the full height of the 35mm frame is used when filming anamorphic and therefore there is less room for joining purposes.

Best,
Rick

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

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From: Essex, UK
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 - posted February 18, 2012 01:51 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Hello Michael,is Kevin not Osi's real monoiker?
Hi, Hugh.
Of course it is. I'd forgotten. Sorry.
[Smile]

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Colin Robert Hunt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Milton Keynes Buckinghamshire
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted February 18, 2012 02:59 PM      Profile for Colin Robert Hunt   Author's Homepage   Email Colin Robert Hunt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The 70mm print I saw at the Odeon Marble arch was fantasric with great print quaity and sound.

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