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Author Topic: Help a newbie
David Hollandsworth
Junior
Posts: 18
From: Roanoke, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted June 30, 2013 12:47 PM      Profile for David Hollandsworth   Author's Homepage   Email David Hollandsworth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just acquired a nice, almost new Bell & Howell 10MS to do some converting to DVD. Light works great and all the motors hum away and I can hear the variable speed working... but... neither of the spindles turn. Is this normal without using reels or perhaps the belt broke or came off? Maybe I should mention that I have no film reels yet to test it out.

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Vidar Olavesen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1441
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012


 - posted June 30, 2013 12:57 PM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage   Email Vidar Olavesen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Might be belts going to goo ... Check all belts for sure, very common if projector been unused for a long time

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Claus Harding
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 956
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006


 - posted June 30, 2013 12:58 PM      Profile for Claus Harding   Email Claus Harding   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi David, welcome aboard.

Belts (and other rubber parts) tend to be the first to go on all these old machines, so if the motors are running and nothing is transporting, that could very well be the case.

In forward mode, the rear spindle should be rotating; in rewind, the front spindle should be spinning briskly.

See if you can take off the back cover of the machine just to get a look-see if anything rubbery is broken or stretched, and then call back here and give a report. We have a lot of knowledgeable people on here who are happy to help.

Claus.

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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David Hollandsworth
Junior
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From: Roanoke, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted June 30, 2013 03:20 PM      Profile for David Hollandsworth   Author's Homepage   Email David Hollandsworth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ok...two screws and the back is off! belt is not broken. feels nice and flexible but... it looks loose. motor turns both ways good and strong. is the belt is simply stretched? wonder why since the entire inside looks new. see photo. also, can someone tell me what the clip thing is hanging from the handle in the bottom photo? i need to get a manual for this, too. thanks!

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Vidar Olavesen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1441
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012


 - posted June 30, 2013 03:25 PM      Profile for Vidar Olavesen   Author's Homepage   Email Vidar Olavesen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's likely belts in the arms also ... Try to take off the covers on the arms also

My Eiki RT-2 was totally gooed up and I cleaned and put on new belts, it ran nice (at least when last tested)

And also, my Chinon didn't have belts, but needed oil on the wheels in the arms

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 2929
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010


 - posted June 30, 2013 03:58 PM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio   Email Pasquale DAlessio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
WELCOME TO THE FORUM DAVID!!!!!

The little thing hanging from the handle is a film trimmer. Just insert the film in it and press. It trims the end so it will thread through projector correctly. You only do this one to each film you run. The reason is most projectors are picky that have auto threading.

As far as your other problem, run the projector with the back off and see what is NOT turning. Something has to be slipping.

Good luck

Patd

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David Hollandsworth
Junior
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From: Roanoke, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted June 30, 2013 04:00 PM      Profile for David Hollandsworth   Author's Homepage   Email David Hollandsworth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
the motor definitely does not turn the belt... it has a lot of slack in it. i can move the large pulley that turns the gears very easily so am thinking a new belt might do it. everything looks greased and oiled line new.

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Janice Glesser
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1227
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted June 30, 2013 04:02 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Welcome to the forum David.

1. I have a PDF of the user manual...PM me with your email address.

2. With the back off plug in the machine and turn the selector switch to forward mode and then reverse. Look at all the belts..the gears...the fan wheel and see if something isn't turning. The main motor belt may be stretched and not making good contact with the pully which drives the arm gears.

3. That is a film trimmer attached to the handle. You should use it to trim the end of the film before inserting it into the auto feed.

--------------------
Janice

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Mike McCord
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 01, 2013 07:49 AM      Profile for Mike McCord   Author's Homepage   Email Mike McCord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree, the belt is too old. One trick I learned on this forum was to "boil" the belt in light soapy water for about 15 minutes, let cool down, rinse in cool clean water, and reinstall. This helped me diagnose my problem - but, only for a short while. I found a rubber band and stretched it to replace the belt while I waited on a replacement via eBay. This allowed me to check out the rest of the projector.

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David Hollandsworth
Junior
Posts: 18
From: Roanoke, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 01, 2013 08:18 AM      Profile for David Hollandsworth   Author's Homepage   Email David Hollandsworth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
mike, thanks for the tip! just might try it. any suggestions on best places to buy a belt and also a spare bulb? i see belts on ebay for $12. yikes!

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Mike McCord
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 01, 2013 11:02 AM      Profile for Mike McCord   Author's Homepage   Email Mike McCord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Hanimex-808D-808-D-Projector-Motor-Drive-BELT-/181134222179?pt=US_Movie_Slide_Projectors&hash=item2a2c70e363

This seems to be in your neighborhood.

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David Hollandsworth
Junior
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From: Roanoke, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 02, 2013 06:34 AM      Profile for David Hollandsworth   Author's Homepage   Email David Hollandsworth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
well, upon further checking, it looks like it might be missing part of the supply spindle?? the reel does not fit on it snugly like it does on the take-up. i bought a take-up reel (below). is this the right one? i also see adapters on ebay...

[URL=http://www.ebay.com/itm/600-Movie-Projector-Take-Up-Reel-Super-8-8mm-Elmo-Sankyo-Chinon-GAF-Eumig-/181133068951?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%2 52BIA]http://www.ebay.com/itm/600-Movie-Projector-Take-Up-Reel-Super-8-8mm-Elmo-Sankyo-Chinon-GAF-Eumig-/181133068951?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI% 252BIA[/URL] %252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D171033561519%26ps%3D54

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Robert Crewdson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 650
From: Wessex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 02, 2013 07:10 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi David, the opening on Super 8 is larger than Standard 8mm, dual guage machines used to have a sleeve that you could take on and off depending on what guage you were showing. Some suppliers of empty reels used to include these convertors. I threw all mine away, but you can find them on Ebay.

--------------------
Robert

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Brian Stearns
Master Film Handler

Posts: 316
From: Needham, MA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 02, 2013 07:15 AM      Profile for Brian Stearns   Email Brian Stearns   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its nice to see another projector that has a squirrel cage for a fan [Smile] it looks brand new,good luck with this projector

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David Hollandsworth
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From: Roanoke, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 02, 2013 07:27 AM      Profile for David Hollandsworth   Author's Homepage   Email David Hollandsworth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
so is this all in need?

http://store.tvedenlampmodules.com/1-SUPER-8-MOVIE-FILM-REEL-ADAPTER-PLUG-to-Regular-8mm-projector-spindle-P3131326.aspx

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 2929
From: Bristol,RI, USA
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 - posted July 02, 2013 07:32 AM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio   Email Pasquale DAlessio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's all you need to adapt a super 8mm reel to standard 8mm spindle. [Wink]

Well done!

PatD [Cool]

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David Hollandsworth
Junior
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From: Roanoke, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 02, 2013 07:34 AM      Profile for David Hollandsworth   Author's Homepage   Email David Hollandsworth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
so i'm assuming the larger one on the take-up side is an adapter for super 8 and can be removed?

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David Hollandsworth
Junior
Posts: 18
From: Roanoke, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 05, 2013 07:29 PM      Profile for David Hollandsworth   Author's Homepage   Email David Hollandsworth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just an update... got the new belt it now works! The old one was stretched and gooey. Also got the adapters in case I need to play Super 8 reels. This thing looks and sound like brand new. Also went ahead and ordered a spare bulb just in case I need it one day. Thanks for all the help!

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Daniel Long
Junior
Posts: 4
From: Weymouth, MA, USA
Registered: Dec 2013


 - posted December 04, 2013 10:10 PM      Profile for Daniel Long   Email Daniel Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am grateful to have found this forum, with all this knowledge! I have a B&H 10MS as well and am a rank amateur with it. My problem is that it runs in reverse, but not forward. All the belts look fine. In fact, it looks new in there. Thanks again for a great forum!

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Janice Glesser
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1227
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted December 05, 2013 02:14 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Welcome Daniel. When you say it only runs backwards...do you mean that the motor does not run forward or just the spindles do not turn? Did you check the main selector switch to see if all the connections are in place? If the motor is running correctly then even though the belt might look good it still could be stretched.

--------------------
Janice

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Daniel Long
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From: Weymouth, MA, USA
Registered: Dec 2013


 - posted December 05, 2013 07:19 AM      Profile for Daniel Long   Email Daniel Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Janice, thank you! I looked at the inside again. Using the picture above, there is that, I guess its a belt that looks like a long spring along the top of the case? On the left and right are spools. On those spools are a disc and also a piece that has two teeth on it, both held in place with a screw. The one on the left will rotate continuously if I turn the reel backwards.If I turn it forward, it makes almost one full rotation and one of the teeth on that piece catches an indent on the spool and stops the reel. It looks like the screw is loose and makes the whole works on that spool loose, and that seems to be the problem. However, that screw won't budge either way, so I wonder if there is something further back that I cannot see thats leaving all that slack.
Sorry for the lengthy description and probably the wrong part names!

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Janice Glesser
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1227
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted December 05, 2013 01:54 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Daniel...here is another photo of the left supply reel assembly.
(1) Screw (2) Washer (3) Washer w/ 2 tangs (this should be loose and can be turned freely with your hand) (4) Pulley for the spring belt (5) Gear (6) Gear (7) Spring

 -

Here is the right take-up reel assembly...this gives you a better view of the spring.

 -

It's possible that the tangs(3) are bent or perhaps the washer has some old residue making it stick...may need some lubrication.

Take another look. Try just turning the shuttter which will turn the gears to see where it's jamming. There could be a broken tooth on one of the gears too.

Report back on your progress...

[ December 06, 2013, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

--------------------
Janice

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Daniel Long
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From: Weymouth, MA, USA
Registered: Dec 2013


 - posted December 06, 2013 12:27 PM      Profile for Daniel Long   Email Daniel Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Janice. Bear with me if I don't make any sense! The washer (with tangs) on the upper left is just kind of flopping around, as is the other washer with it. I guess the pulley? has kind of a groove or an indent on it. When turning the reel forward, one of the tangs catches that indent. On the upper right, everything seems a bit more flush and not loose, and the tang kind of stays in one place and does not catch.
The screw holding in the washers to the spool is immobile. I don't know if I can post a video here, but if I can I will try and show whats going on. The tangs look fine and there does not seem to be anything going on there that isn't going on on the side that's working, except for the looseness.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted December 06, 2013 12:46 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can't help you, but welcome to the forum!

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Janice Glesser
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1227
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted December 06, 2013 02:09 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Upload a video to YouTube and post the link.

Here are a few more things to check:

It's possible that the spring behind the gear is stuck...try pulling the gears forward towards the screw to see if that tightens the washers. See that the arm attached to the gears is tight and positioned correctly... there are a couple of screws on the arm to check. Also make sure the E-Clip holding the gear (6) is not missing.

Although there is a Phillips screw head...It may not be a screw...but just a rod holding all the pieces together that has slipped forward. It may just need to be tapped back into position. I wouldn't try this though until you have checked all the other possibilities.

[ December 06, 2013, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

--------------------
Janice

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