8mm Forum: Preventing damage to a print

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Topic: Preventing damage to a print

Timothy Duncan
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 150
From: Russellville, KY, USA
Registered: Sep 2014

posted October 14, 2014 07:59 PM

Mr. Duncan has chosen to delete his post.

[ February 01, 2015, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]

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Dan A. Caprio
Film Handler

Posts: 71
From: sarasota florida
Registered: Jun 2010

posted October 14, 2014 08:35 PM

Well Tim
I hate to be the bearer of bad news...But
it was the operators fault always check a print... when it come in.... on bench rewinds.... for hidden surprises...pulled or broken sprockes...bad splices...etc... to avoid above posted symptons... [Frown]

Personally I dislike "automated shreader" projectors for just such problems ...manual projectors are so much easier to spot check prints if necessary and remove without damage.

Dan

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted October 15, 2014 12:11 PM

Commiserations - it's always exasperating if something like that happens!

I'm not arguing about Dan with regard to the desirability of checking films, but I wouldn't feel bad about not doing this - I'm sure many of us don't. I often do a check on a 16mm film but I'd rarely bother with 8mm as the majority of films don't have damage that will cause such problems. Autothread projectors are generally convenient and not worth worrying about as a very large majority are of this type and they generally work OK. I don't think a soundtrack on a film used in a silent projector would normally make any difference. Winding tighter on a reel wouldn't help, and there's no point if you're about to screen the film. If nothing similar has happened before or since, it does seem that the film could the problem - if you examine the part where things started going wrong, you might (e.g.) find sprocket damage or a poor splice. At least if you find the film was already damaged, you'll feel better about having to cut it! One question: did you try the projector's loop restorer? If not, doing so quickly may have restored the loops and enabled you to reach the end without stopping, although it's impossible to be sure.

[ October 15, 2014, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

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Adrian Winchester

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

posted October 15, 2014 01:27 PM

I've had films spliced with gum, go figure what they though when they did that. Heard about 35mm's being stapled (shudder)

Also had film with splices of "normal" tape and it's gooey and stretchy. Feel with you, most of mine were salvaged without loss of much frames. Elmo's are nice that way, can remove film in mid film. Never had a problem with losely wound film though, only when rewinding, it sometimes overflows the reel

Good luck in salvaging as much as possible of the film

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 15, 2014 08:18 PM

I always run prints in my rewinds before showing if they have never been through my machines and inspect all/any damage/splice as mentioned above it could have been a bad sprocket or splice or an object in the films path I've seen sections of bad sprockets cause problems. I had that happen to a film where the take up arm got to heavy a sagged till it would not turn and caused the film to bunch up I had to cut it out as well and where I cut it was the only splice I carefully flattened the wrinkled film and it ran fine until I replaced it years later.

[ October 16, 2014, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: Jim Schrader ]

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 15, 2014 10:54 PM

I once got a used film with a metal staple in it! [Eek!]

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted October 16, 2014 01:05 AM

I agree that it best to run the film on rewinds to check for damage or splices, but a simple check is to hold the reel of film up to the light and normally you will see any splices or damage. It shows up as dark irregularities compared to the normal undamaged film. If a film is loosely wound onto a reel then this check is not so apparent, in which case I would always rewind it. I'm sure we have all made similar mistakes. It's part of the learning curve of this hobby.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted October 16, 2014 02:37 AM

It is always a temptation to run a newly acquired film, whatever the gauge, immediately, but it must be resisted until it has been thoroughly checked, preferably on a rewind, to ensure it will eventually run OK.
Of the 500 or so films I acquired some months ago I have now completed the Super 8 and have started on the 16mm, but there are still about 130 still to check. It's a job which must not be hurried.

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Maurice

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

posted October 16, 2014 02:38 AM

If you don't already have a set of rewinds which can be difficult to find consider a hand driven or motorised editor viewer with integral rewind arms as these are reasonably plentiful. Elmo made one of the best but other good makes include Minette and Goko.

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Paul.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted October 16, 2014 03:56 AM

Timothy, if my message sounds stupid to you, just ignore it but as you say you're not familiar with films, are you sure your film is definitly ruined ? If you cut it to get it out of the projector and only damaged one or two frames (or even more), you may just splice it.

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Dominique

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted October 16, 2014 09:32 AM

Timothy
Here's something you need to get you started. It's complete and also has a few tapes.
Be aware that the early models did not include facilities for splicing Super 8 films, only Regular 8 and 16mm.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kodak-Universal-Presstape-Splicer-8mm-S8mm-16mm-/201192920137?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed8085449

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Maurice

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

posted October 16, 2014 10:02 AM

I used to prefer the Kodak splicer too, but the pins on the Super 8 part seem fragile to me. I bought two with broken pins and broke one myself (and wasn't doing anything but using the "pen" to push the tape down on the film. Later I got a nice CIR splicer (Thank you Mark) and this is what I use now. Very nice indeed

http://www.cir-srl.com/products.htm

I think it's the one under Splicers then Splicer for Archive/Video-Transfert and it's the one Super 8 (Inc 3). Plastic, sadly, but expect it's cheaper than a metal one

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted October 16, 2014 10:55 AM

Timothy, I think the best way to train is to sacrifice some leader. There are different kind of leader stock available ; the classical one is the white leader (it allows you to see better in the trajectory inside the projector).

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Dominique

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted October 16, 2014 11:15 AM

Timothy
If you need perfect splices, then invest in a CIR splicer. They are Italian designed and are definitely the best and easiest to use. They employ tape (like sellotape) and make perfect splices. The only thing is, is that you will need one for each film guage that you use and they are not cheap. They come up on EBay quite often so don't buy new unless you have a spare arm and a leg. Good luck

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 16, 2014 05:16 PM

the particular ebay link above is our own janice she is a very honest seller.

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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