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Author Topic: Vibrations on Beaulieu 708 EL stereo
Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted August 19, 2016 07:25 AM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi, all.

I have just received this projector: I inspected it thouroughly, cleaned it where necessary while lamp warm up; and when I was finally confident, I screened a couple of shorts.

Great performances indeed, very silent machine, but with the variable shutter set to 2-blades the projector suffers from a slight but noticeable vibration at 24 fps (only) which seems to riverberate on the test film resolution (SMPTE test film).

Everything is perfect when the shutter is set to 3 blades.

Has anyone ever experienced this? Is it normal? I might guess it is due to the fact that in 2-blade mode, one of the blades is hidden behind one of the remaining two, and the overall mass of the shutter is much less balanced in my opinion...

Any hints? Thank you

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Maurizio

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 19, 2016 07:32 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Check it is wide open Maurizio.

I was warned of excessive vibration in two bladed shutter mode on these myself before finally owning one.

To be honest, i have never found this to be the case.
I watch all 24fps films on two bladed shutter mode and both the noise levels and vibration levels are completely unaffected to my ears whether two or three mode is utilized.

Mine is always placed on a standard projector table and that stands on a carpeted floor.

Maybe if it was on a solid floor it may become more noticeable, i do not know. But even to the touch of a finger on the main chassis, the machine isn't noticeably more affected which ever mode and certainly isn't like an washing machine on fast spin with a pair of trainers in! [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Wink]

I will place a glass with water in it next to the machine running on the projector table.
I will video it and post a link here to see whether or not yours is similar in its behaviour.

https://vimeo.com/179453269

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted August 19, 2016 07:37 AM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Andrew. I'll do the check you suggested. Cheers!

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Maurizio

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 19, 2016 07:51 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Nothing too drastic observed Maurizio.

This was on 2 blade 24fps mode btw. [Smile]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Browning
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1006
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted August 19, 2016 08:04 AM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have this model too Maurizio, it does have a more vibration than say a fumeo or the gs, it maybe because the third blade disappears behind one of the two remaining shutter blades, this must in some way unbalance the shaft it rotates on because you shifting the weight to one side of the fixing, similar to balance weights on a car wheel. Just a thought.

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted August 19, 2016 08:15 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew
I find that my projectors always work better with a glass of wine next to them. Especially when it's empty [Big Grin]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 19, 2016 08:17 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
yes it's true as Paul says, that by having the design it has, on two bladed shutter mode, one side of the shutter has two blade thicknesses while the other opposite side is only singular.

However, as said and as can be seen here now, it certainly isn't anything too drastic and it never causes me any level of concern both from a noise or vibration standpoint, or even a mechanical one.

The blades are after all, very lightweight in their construction, so we are not talking huge amounts of imbalance here. [Wink]

To be honest, having watched it back again just now, it appears the water is almost still when no sound is being replayed, so it certainly isn't much at all when the shutter is wide open.

[ August 20, 2016, 03:35 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Florida
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 19, 2016 08:17 AM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow Andrew please provide a video of the film that is projecting I love RR and had no idea it was avail on S8. You are the man:)

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 19, 2016 08:18 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Wink]

Soon Alan soon ha ha.

Elsewhere though Buddy! [Wink]

It certainly makes the films look good even when they perhaps aren't Terry! [Big Grin] [Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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James Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Norwich, UK
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted August 19, 2016 11:27 AM      Profile for James Wilson   Author's Homepage   Email James Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think with two blades running at 24fps it`s probably
trying to take of!

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James Wilson

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 19, 2016 02:53 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Bloody Nora, I thought Pat was back for a mo there! [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Wink]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted August 20, 2016 07:59 AM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the posts, guys. I think, now, it's nothing to worry about.

But I have another question: my machine, during recording, seems to only allow sound check from the monitor sound head (the extra one), which plays back the sound just recorded a split second before by the regular head. Is there a way to listen to the sound being put in the machine (source monitoring rather than recorded monitoring) as it is possible on all other machines I own???

BTW has anyone got a scan of the manual?
BTW2: great sound, really impressive and with no particular difference between main and balance track!!!
Thanks again.

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Maurizio

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 20, 2016 08:41 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Try switching the public address switch to on Maurizio.

I don't ever use my Beaulieu for any of my recording tasks, but when I very first got it, I remember having to do this to hear an input when trying the recording modes out.

I might have even had to do this for track to track transfer, I can't quite remember now, it was many moons ago.
[Smile]

As for a manual, I purchased mine from Beaulieu.de

They do English, French and German versions for your model.

I don't have a scanner unfortunately, but I could photograph every page of my English manual if this helps?

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Browning
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 - posted August 20, 2016 08:56 AM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi MAURIZIO, you could put a small mixer between the source and projector, this will allow you monitor input before recording and adjust the output recording on your projector vu's. With a better quality mixer you can adjust bass and treble too, which I find helps.

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Maurizio Di Cintio
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Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
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 - posted August 20, 2016 12:32 PM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you, Andrew and Paul.
The PA suggestion works indeed. It doesn't make much sense to me but it works.

Putting a mixer between audio source and prj is a good idea especially to balance the two tracks when recording in stereo; it has alvways buffled me why was it both Bauer and Beaulieu didn't consider individual rec level controls for each track on both their top of the range machines!!! Fortunately the Vu-meters on the 708 also work during playback which - I found - is quite uncommon according to "Europe-school".

So thanks everybody for the feedback. Now the only issue left is a problem with the balance slider: it works very erratically ie when it it pulled all the way to R channel only it will occasionally also play both channels and vice versa. Perhaos some contact cleaner might help. Have a nice week end.

--------------------
Maurizio

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Paul Browning
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From: West Midlands United Kingdom
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 - posted August 20, 2016 01:38 PM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Maurizio, not sure if these can be obtained now, probably an odd value and size. I have though recovered these to use again in other machines, not projectors, with a simple pencil lead ?. These are just carbon tracks and they either wear out or go high resistance and have flat spots in them where they do not work at all. If you can gain access to the slider from the from, they have just a dust cover over them, remove the slider knob, and sharpen a pencil maybe with a pen knife, then reach in with the pencil and use the lead to replace any carbon along the track, sounds mad or crazy but, it was a tip I got from a very good sound engineer who worked for sony, he was no fool, it definitely worked, and will save you dismantling the whole machine to get to this to desolder. The switch cleaner may work too, but it can have the opposite effect on some switches and can attack the old style plastic and make them fall apart !!!!. Good luck, let us know how you get on.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 20, 2016 02:19 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Great tips from Paul there.

Also there are some linear pots you can angle the moving slider tip to use a slightly different section of the carbon track. This then similarly can give some sliders a new lease of life.

Great care though has to be taken, of course, if attempting to dismantle these things though.

I've never had to look into any of mine so far touch wood, so at this stage I have no idea of the type used on these though.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted August 21, 2016 12:59 PM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you guys, incredible suggestions!!! Perhaps I'll give them a try although indeed I have noticed the "angle thingy" metioned by Andrew. As a matter of fact, I am being a bit picky on this balance slider when in fact it's not a real issue. Should I ever need to use this machine for screenings with my regular audience, I'll certainly hook up it to an external amplifier and control balance etc from latter. Plus the machine came with a 2-year warranty: I hope I'll never need it and the balance is not so serious as to justify sending it back. So I am 98% satisfied. Thanx again for dissolving a few perplexities.

P.S.: Andrew I'd never ask you to take shots of your user's manual pages, that would be a painstaking process. I'll probably by one from Wittner or look for an Italian one on my local S/8 forum.

Cheers everybody.

--------------------
Maurizio

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 21, 2016 02:08 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I will check through my digital downloads Maurizio to see what
I have in the way of manuals on these.

I certainly don't mind taking a photo of each page and mailing it to you Maurizio if I don't find a digital version.

I'm almost certain I won't have an Italian version, but given your excellent English Maurizio, I don't believe you'd go far wrong if I can find you an English version.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted August 21, 2016 04:02 PM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Andrew, I'm flattered [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Maurizio

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 21, 2016 04:34 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Send me your e mail address Maurizio,by PM.
I will get you something over to you in pdf format or jpg format tomorrow even if in future, you decide to get yourself an official paper copy. [Wink]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted August 21, 2016 05:00 PM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
PM sent.

--------------------
Maurizio

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 21, 2016 05:21 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I have now sent you the only two I have in pdf format Maurizio.
I hope these are of some use to you in the meantime. [Smile] [Wink]

[ August 21, 2016, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted August 22, 2016 04:12 AM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great stuff, Andrew! Thank you so much!!!!

--------------------
Maurizio

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 22, 2016 04:14 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
No worries my friend. [Smile] [Wink]

Sent you another mail Maurizio regarding the service manual for these.A very useful addition in ownership of one of these. [Smile] [Wink]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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