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Author Topic: Would a sealed copy of 8mm film retain its colors?
Gilbert Lambert
Expert Film Handler

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From: Ostende, Belgium
Registered: May 2016


 - posted March 23, 2017 06:43 AM      Profile for Gilbert Lambert   Author's Homepage   Email Gilbert Lambert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I opened two Disneyland Super 8 sound 200' movies still sealed from the seventies and all colours gone .. only red or pink left .. so I would not trust it anymore if on offer ... good luck , it will be a gamble I guess, Gilbert

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Osi Osgood
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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted March 23, 2017 12:59 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep, it all depends on the film stock and, THANK GOODNESS that much of Super 8 switched to low fade film stocks in the early 80's!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

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From: San Francsico, CA, USA
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 - posted March 23, 2017 01:05 PM      Profile for Robert Lee   Email Robert Lee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since Derann 8mm movies are expensive/hard to find, I've been enjoying 16mm B-movies instead. It seems this format is easier to find in good colors.

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Bill Brandenstein
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From: California
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 - posted March 23, 2017 02:39 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert, you should at least be able to score a cartoon or two for under $40 from Derann, Walton, or even some US companies, the key being LPP stock from 1982 or newer.

For example, Vincent Zabbia has the Disney Fox and the Hound extract in low-fade on eBay right now for $25.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 23, 2017 05:35 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Since Derann 8mm movies are expensive/hard to find, I've been enjoying 16mm B-movies instead. It seems this format is easier to find in good colors.
If you don't have any problem with the storage, collecting 16mm is of course way better than 8mm, if everything is being in equal condition (negative, lab process, film stock, etc). You double the quality. Some member here have even gone to 35mm which has quadrapled the quality.

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Winbert

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

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From: San Francsico, CA, USA
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 - posted March 23, 2017 06:32 PM      Profile for Robert Lee   Email Robert Lee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill, thanks for the tip. So I assume all the 8mm films from 1982+ are Super 8 with sound. I should be searching for these keywords and screenshots of the movies.

Winbert, too bad they didn't make portable 35mm projectors.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted March 23, 2017 06:56 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
So I assume all the 8mm films from 1982+ are Super 8 with sound. I should be searching for these keywords and screenshots of the movies
Yes, after 1982 there were only few companies such Derann, Red Fox, CHC that still printed 8mm, and films from that period will be on LPP/Low fade stock. Be familiarize with their cover style and you could snap some films from these companies cheap. On that periode, art work cover were no longer the point of selling, they were usually printed by photo copy machine or even just white blank boxes.

Some sellers (non collectors) could think they were not that precious compared with films from 1970s era which would be more colorful, cover wise. And this means you are lucky!

quote:
Winbert, too bad they didn't make portable 35mm projectors.
Robert, they actualy made. There is a discussion made in a sister of this forum here: Protable 35mm projector

But imagine a full feature of 35mm will take 4 times larger than 8mm.

This is a picture I get from the net:

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Winbert

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Osi Osgood
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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted March 24, 2017 12:28 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
These folks "taint' kidding, Gilbert!

It's amazing what deals you can scoop up on ebay, AND have them be low fade prints! I have been buying a number of rare cartoons from a certain ebayer, and every single print I have bought from him has perfect color, and these are on 400ft reels, two cartoons per reel, approximately 6.00 dollars each, and these are Derann prints, and even the ones that aren't (A Universal 8 Woody cartoon, "Musical Moments from Chopin"), on kodak SP, which usu8ally has fade by now, is absolutely unfaded, totally pristine, so yep, awesome bargains out there!

you can actually build a pretty decent collection of super 8 low fade prints if you just watch ebay and elsewhere on a constant basis. Now, if you want the low fade super 8 features, as a general rule, you WILL pay a good deal more, but to see it on that big screen is always something else! [Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Fabrizio Mosca
Master Film Handler

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From: Milano, Italy
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 - posted March 24, 2017 02:26 PM      Profile for Fabrizio Mosca   Email Fabrizio Mosca   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert, unfortunately a full lenght 35mm film is, in terms of occupied space, almost 16 times the corresponding one in super 8... [Frown] don't forget also the width of the film [Wink]

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

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From: San Francsico, CA, USA
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 - posted March 24, 2017 03:16 PM      Profile for Robert Lee   Email Robert Lee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi, the only way I can watch sites is using keywords notification, otherwise it would be too time consuming. What keywords should I be looking for? Currently I have "Super 8 sound", Derann.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted March 24, 2017 04:45 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fabrizio, yes you are right. I forgot the width. So, big no for me collecting 35mm. Super 8mm has been enough for me to fill the nostalgic feelling of celluloid.

Robert, your key word will not work. Should the listing contains Derann or LPP or low fade, this means the seller understand what he/she is selling. So it is rarely you will have a bargain there.

What we are talking is someone found reels in the attic and just want to clear it up.

I have experienced hundreds times of this kind of listing and this is the way I build my collection.

There was a time I bought a F/L on LPP for $150 or 25 of Red Fox/Derann 200' reels for $5/each. There was also a time, a seller thought super 8mm as game cartridges and listed them under this category. Of course gamers would not bid it and they were sold for £0.99 for 3 Walton Film 200'. PS: most Waltons are on Agfa low fade.

I once bought a GS-1200 listed as a VP and no one bid it. You can read the story here: http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005471

For having that, you need to have plenty time searching all Ebay with various keywords. But that is the nice thing of hunting [Smile]

Cheers,

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Winbert

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted March 25, 2017 11:39 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The way i have always used is either one way or another ...

when it comes to ebay, i'll save in my purchased film lists, the item, so that i can click on that old auction, and on the top, it will usually list (as to where it was found) "Film Stock", then, you simplly click on that, and it will bring up on the left, all the different film stocks ebay lists, 35MM, 16MM, 8MM and Super 8MM, then you simply click those buttons on the left and WHIZ BANG!!

You're right there!

Otherwise, just type in, in that top box, "Film Stocks" and make sure in the box just to the right, that it states "all categories" as, sometimes, some films get "lost in translation", due to strange listings of them on ebay.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

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 - posted March 25, 2017 12:05 PM      Profile for Robert Lee   Email Robert Lee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Welp, looks like I have to spend some time on ebay once a week now.

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Robert Lee
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 - posted April 26, 2017 12:51 PM      Profile for Robert Lee   Email Robert Lee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Found out the resolution of 8mm film is around 480p for old film stocks and 720p for new film stocks. This is a good reason for me not to spend hundreds of dollars on them. I'll buy 16mm films instead. Higher resolution, better color and most times cheaper too.

I surprised there is a resurgence of interest in Super 8 and Kodak is releasing a new camera.

[ April 26, 2017, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Robert Lee ]

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Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted April 26, 2017 05:00 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is no actual resolution for film because it is not made of pixels. When you transfer it to digital file than the digital file will have that resolution, because it is digital [Wink] .

quote:
I surprised there is a resurgence of interest in Super 8 and Kodak is releasing a new camera.
You might be even surprised knowing people taking picture with a Lomo camera in this digital 4K quality.

This is a hobby Robert, if you are not wondering why people run an old 1960s Chevy Impala instead of a new Hyundai...then you will understand why people are running their 8mm films in this today's technology.

[ April 26, 2017, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

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Winbert

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Brian Fretwell
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 - posted April 26, 2017 06:21 PM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The resolution of film is usually stated in line pairs per mm Kodachrome 40 was very good, but I would think lower speed print film would be better.

If the resolution was 64 lines/mm (a measurement I seem to remember) then a 6mm wide picture would be 720+ pixels resolution as a line would be represented by white pixel and one black next to it.

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

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From: San Francsico, CA, USA
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 - posted April 28, 2017 10:42 AM      Profile for Robert Lee   Email Robert Lee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
You might be even surprised knowing people taking picture with a Lomo camera in this digital 4K quality.

This is a hobby Robert, if you are not wondering why people run an old 1960s Chevy Impala instead of a new Hyundai...then you will understand why people are running their 8mm films in this today's technology.

True. I just don't like the idea paying a premium price for a product that is technically inferior to it's digital counterpart. Lomo and old cars are cheaper than it's counterpart.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted April 28, 2017 10:53 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Then as was pointed out to David Hardy here recently Robert, if you cannot accept the inherent in built imperfections surrounding film, despite its unique and undeniable beauty and charm, then only digital projection will now offer you the flawless quality of image you strive for on a big screen.

Both images are very very different without even bringing into the equation the technical merits and limitations of each.
Only one however can offer a truly flawless image quality even if to some film fanatics such as myself, we find it can almost be a little sterile at times as a result.

I enjoy screening using both methods of technology, but only film offers me personally, a true fascination by some of the images I see appear on screen.
This then also offers me a far greater desire to repeat viewings of the very same film, far more than I gain from a similar movie on a disc.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Robert Lee
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 - posted April 28, 2017 11:05 AM      Profile for Robert Lee   Email Robert Lee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I love film. I just wish the price more or less represent it's visual quality. I like the quality of 16mm and it's prices. Bought a roll of 35mm film trailer for $10 from ebay and thought it was cool.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted April 28, 2017 11:15 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
If there were only ever a handful of certain DVDs made available at any given time, no doubt they too would be unbelievably expensive.

If there were tens of thousands of used decent prints around, many of the same popular titles often searched for by collectors, no doubt they now would be extremely cheap to buy.

Supply and demand, as always in any walk of life Robert.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

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From: San Francsico, CA, USA
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 - posted April 28, 2017 11:18 AM      Profile for Robert Lee   Email Robert Lee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
True. It's all about supply and demand. I assume there is not enough demand, hence the lack of supply and high prices.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted April 28, 2017 11:21 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
There is far more demand than there ever is of quality used popular titles on film, hence the prices that you often see.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Robert Lee
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From: San Francsico, CA, USA
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 - posted April 28, 2017 11:24 AM      Profile for Robert Lee   Email Robert Lee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm talking about newly released films like True Lies digest, Captain America digest, etc from The Reel Image. Prices are like $500 per hour of film. Why can't they make it more affordable like $100-200 per hour of film if there is enough demand? Maybe they should utilize crowd funding to bring down the price to a more affordable level.
Is there another company in the USA that sells newly released 8mm films? I only know of The Reel Image.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted April 28, 2017 11:54 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
No not that I am aware of Robert. They make so few copies these days, the prices are always this high.
Even in Deranns hey days in the mid to late 80's, early 90's, the films were still around £80 to £85 per 600ft of film and sometimes, there were hundreds of copies printed.

It was never cheap to manufacture and print / stripe film.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Robert Lee
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From: San Francsico, CA, USA
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 - posted April 28, 2017 05:43 PM      Profile for Robert Lee   Email Robert Lee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Was there any American companies releasing 8mm films during the golden days? What are their names? All I see is Derann on ebay.

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