8mm Forum


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | my password | register | search | faq | register | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » Review Wolverine Reels2Digital MovieMaker 8mm film digitizer (Page 23)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 27 pages: 1  2  3  ...  20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27 
 
Author Topic: Review Wolverine Reels2Digital MovieMaker 8mm film digitizer
Kev Morrison
Film Handler

Posts: 75
From: Land of the Mouse, USA
Registered: Feb 2018


 - posted April 21, 2019 08:39 PM      Profile for Kev Morrison   Email Kev Morrison   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev it is quite likely because I sent an angry email to Wolverine during my early motor failures and sent a link to this forum so they could see I was not the only person with issues.

Wolverine data also watch my you tube channel and 'dislike' my Wolverine failure videos [Eek!] [Smile] [Smile]

Mike.... why is it that I'm not surprised? [Confused]

When Wolverine stops using it's customer base for beta testing it's equipment, well, then they won't have anything to 'dislike'!

 |  IP: Logged

Richard Thomas
Junior
Posts: 1
From: Owen Sound, ON, Canada
Registered: May 2019


 - posted May 03, 2019 08:53 AM      Profile for Richard Thomas   Author's Homepage   Email Richard Thomas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi all-I'm a new poster to this forum, though I have been following it for a while. I had some trouble with the Wolverine Unit I bought in January 2017, so this week I took delivery of a new until. Based on my reading here, I thought everyone might be interested to know there have been changes to the film path. There are now three tabs instead of two, spaced out across the film path. The new manual says its to cut down on jitter. Ran a few films and it seemed to help.
 -
 -

 |  IP: Logged

Bill Sherren
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Kent, England
Registered: Dec 2018


 - posted May 03, 2019 11:45 AM      Profile for Bill Sherren   Email Bill Sherren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My Wolverine had the three tabs and was totally jittery and unstable! With film sprocket damage as well. So guess their quality control is rubbish and you either strike lucky or not!

 |  IP: Logged

Stan Jelavic
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted May 13, 2019 07:58 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My Wolverine has 3 tabs as well and has a jitter issue with the stock setup.
Started working on the new controller. Have some issues with the M12 lens mount. Hard to get the right size so ordered a bunch of them all different sizes from M12lenses. Also ordered a new lens from bh photo. It is a 12mm lens and according to my calculations it should give a better optical resolution but the proof is in the pudding - right. Will see how this new combination works out.

 |  IP: Logged

Kamel Ikhlef
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted May 15, 2019 04:58 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Stan,
congratulations for your work this will help a lot of people like me. I am impatient and I will be very interested in your module. for the lens mount, I do not know if the hole spacing is 18mm or 20mm. for the camera lens I found a 12mm macro scorpion that seems very good. We will end up making this machine a good telecine.

M12 lens support : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/M12-Lens-Mount-ABS-Lens-Mount-Camera-Lens-Mount-the-ABS-Lens-Holder/32567879004.html
M12 macro lens :http://www.scorpionvision.co.uk/Catalog/Machine-Vision-Lens/m12-lenses/near-field-far-field-m12-lenses/s-mount-12mm-f2-8-macro-lens

 |  IP: Logged

Kamel Ikhlef
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted May 15, 2019 04:59 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Stan,
congratulations for your work this will help a lot of people like me. I am impatient and I will be very interested in your module. for the lens mount, I do not know if the hole spacing is 18mm or 20mm. for the camera lens I found a 12mm macro scorpion that seems very good. We will end up making this machine a good telecine.

M12 lens support : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/M12-Lens-Mount-ABS-Lens-Moun t-Camera-Lens-Mount-the-ABS-Lens-Holder/32567879004.html
M12 macro lens :http://www.scorpionvision.co.uk/Catalog/Machine-Vision-Lens/m12-lenses/near-field-far-field-m12-lenses/s-mount-12mm-f2-8-macro-lens

 |  IP: Logged

Stan Jelavic
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted May 19, 2019 09:47 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Kamel,
Thanks for researching the lens alternatives.
I bought several M12 holders and checking them now.
http://www.m12lenses.com/M12-Lens-Holders-s/61.htm
PT-LH008P works good with the Wolverine lens and RASPI cam
but the optical magnification is not enough as you can see from my previous posts. It covers only 50% of the HD image. Not sure if 12mm is too much. Did a spreadsheet and it says 12mm should be OK but will have to test it since I have several lenses here.
The camera mount is a bit tricky. It requires standoffs. Should have something tomorrow and will send an update.

 |  IP: Logged

Kamel Ikhlef
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted May 20, 2019 09:02 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you for sharing. I am not as competent as you but I look forward to your advancement. I would like for the moment to replace the original lens support to put another lens of better quality. I will print the support in 3D. I have to do tests too, I have f8, f12, f16 ... The focus distance is very important. I can not measure it.
Otherwise we can calculate the lens on the sunex web site: http://www.optics-online.com/register.asp

 |  IP: Logged

Stan Jelavic
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted May 20, 2019 10:02 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Managed to fix the camera mount:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/n81SPStUWHdfCiUK6
Used the 8mm lens with the new holder and the optical magnification is still not enough:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EjYGqaqFxSXsRw959
12mm lens should be pretty close. Here is my calculation:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-hXTxF7eOxKUawaIUkLS4dvfP0YH8TbK/view?usp=sharing
I tried your link Kamel but it seems to be limited to 8mm FL and lower.
The stock Wolverine lens seems to be around 4 - 6 mm. Will measure it by focusing to infinity and then measuring the distance from the lens to the sensor.

 |  IP: Logged

Kamel Ikhlef
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted May 21, 2019 11:11 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ndeed, the calculation of optics is not simple. for now I would just replace the stock optics to improve the quality. the sensor is a 3.53 MP cmos. 2304x1536. But the recovered image is in 1440x1080.
the cmos is a 1/3 '' and measures 4.8mmx3.6mm.
the useful dimensions of the cmos of stock are 2.99mmx2.53mm.
The distance from the cmos to the film plane is about 45mm. the format super8 is 5.79mmx4.01mm. a focal lens of f10 would be good but it is difficult to find in M12. or play with long rings ... To test.

 |  IP: Logged

Stan Jelavic
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted May 21, 2019 07:22 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Looks like a pretty good plan. One issue that you may have is the fixed distance from the film to the sensor. A 12mm lens will focus at around 18mm (focuses at 12mm for infinity). The lens that you are planning to get has minimum focusing distance at 28mm according to the spec. So, 28mm + 18mm is 46mm which is too close for comfort. I plan to use 12mm but in my case I can change the sensor to film distance.

 |  IP: Logged

Kamel Ikhlef
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted May 22, 2019 07:41 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes you are right. I wanted to simplify my mod for the moment. but I would like, as you, disassemble all and slow down the system to avoid jigs and skipping pictures (great disease of these scanners units). Of course, I would also like to record the frames one by one to maintain the maximum quality ... I do not know how to disassemble the camera board support to become independent of their system ?... that's why I'm very interested in your work and the kit you are preparing. Have you made a disassembly guide ? I need help. sorry for my english.

 |  IP: Logged

Stan Jelavic
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted May 22, 2019 01:02 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Kamel,
The Wolverine camera and the controller are all on one board and there is no way of separating the camera. That is why I removed the camera/controller/display unit and slowly building my own. I still reuse the transport mechanism with the stepper and the LEDs and the main mechanical assembly including the housing and the mounting brackets.
I do not have the instructions yet because it is still work in progress but it is in the plan.
The main issues that I have are:
- Select proper IR filter to remove pinkish tinge in the image
- Try 12mm lens (on order)
- Drive LEDs from 3.3V source on RPI
- Detect sync pulses from the transport in RPI
- 12V relay for the takeup motor
- Update sw to sense the sync and drive the stepper

The main issue now is the pink color in the image - see:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2nRmSDpbsds7hXFo6

Found the root cause:
https://www.ccdcmoslens.com/pink-glow-caused-difference-lens-cra-sensor-cra/
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=196297

Will try the correction mentioned in the links above. This could limit the amount of optical magnification. Alternatively go with a different cam.

 |  IP: Logged

Stan Jelavic
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted May 26, 2019 10:05 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tried the 12mm lens.
As I mentioned before the sensor to film distance is large and the lens will not work with the stock Wolverine. See my rig:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/buEnuFdfz4qj6tQYA
Here is a test capture:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/txnZBY1hdMeJrjuG7
The optical magnification is significantly larger than with the stock lens bit there is some blurring around the edges cause by wider FOV. Possibly better lens might have better fringe focus. Another issue is pink glow as I already mentioned. I think I can fix that.

 |  IP: Logged

Kamel Ikhlef
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted May 27, 2019 03:56 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
your progress is very promising and encouraging. I did not go much further. I am doing curved pulleys for the training of the film to print in 3D to improve the scrolling of the film. I do not dare to disassemble everything yet but it will come when you propose your modification kit.

 |  IP: Logged

Stan Jelavic
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted May 27, 2019 02:30 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Scorpionvision 12mm macro lens that you suggested Kamel seems to be better suited for these close distances and may have better focus than the Marshall lens that I am using. I will get one and compare. If you happen to have 8mm you can try it with the stock setup but I don't think you will see much difference because Wolverine are doing image doubling and sharpening and then on top of that jpeg compression so the details where you could notice the difference are no longer there (but we want to see those details). Additionally, due to low optical magnification and larger older sensor they use only the center portion of the sensor so that a better lens will not help that much.

 |  IP: Logged

Kamel Ikhlef
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted May 27, 2019 02:52 PM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
yes, I totally agree. with the scorpion M12mm macro lens, it is better to use a better quality sensor and become independent of their wolverine system. I had smpte hit test on a super 8 movie outside Wolverine unit, and the quality could be really better. the goal is to get the best of our movies.
save a series of compressed or uncompressed frames and then create the final movie after post production.Finally, that's what I would like to get

 |  IP: Logged

Stan Jelavic
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted May 27, 2019 09:29 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Scorpionvision 12mm macro lens that you suggested Kamel seems to be better suited for these close distances and may have better focus than the Marshall lens that I am using. I will get one and compare. If you happen to have 8mm you can try it with the stock setup but I don't think you will see much difference because Wolverine are doing image doubling and sharpening and then on top of that jpeg compression so the details where you could notice the difference are no longer there (but we want to see those details). Additionally, due to low optical magnification and larger older sensor they use only the center portion of the sensor so that a better lens will not help that much.

 |  IP: Logged

Kamel Ikhlef
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted May 29, 2019 05:13 PM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My telecine of dreams and that could have been possible. the wolverine unit with an independent camera. opportunity to change it for a better one HDMI video output for a high quality monitoring on a larger screen.
mp4 or frame-by-frame recording, choice of compression.
a scroll of the film by capstan to pass the films a little damaged.
We can always dream !... I would have paid more, Wolverine could have proposed this unit by naming it "pro" because my wolverine pro has only the name!...with our mods, I hop the dream this becomes reality...

 |  IP: Logged

Stan Jelavic
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted May 29, 2019 11:17 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That is a nice dream Kamel [Smile] But I believe that it is definitely possible to have an independent camera that we control the way we want to. It is a slow progress but we will get there.

 |  IP: Logged

Kamel Ikhlef
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted May 30, 2019 05:12 PM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I recovered a camera imagingsource : camera with a M12mm optics lens and a low distortion 16mm of very good quality. I can print a 3D support for the camera board. but I do not know how to slow down the wolverine scrolling and I also need the 3,3/5v signal at each frameto trigger the camera. the software is freely downloadable and allows the recording of videos or image by image. It may be a good track.

 |  IP: Logged

Kamel Ikhlef
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted May 30, 2019 05:17 PM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I recovered a camera imagingsource : camera with a M12mm optics lens and a low distortion 16mm of very good quality. I can print a 3D support for the camera board. but I do not know how to slow down the wolverine scrolling and I also need the 3,3/5v signal at each frame to trigger the camera. the software is freely downloadable and allows the recording of videos or frame by image (ICCapture). It may be a good way. https://www.theimagingsource.com/products/board-cameras/usb-2.0-color/dfm72buc02ml/

 |  IP: Logged

Stan Jelavic
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted May 30, 2019 09:43 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That sounds exciting Kamel. Can you post the pics. How close were you to the object? Any pink glow?
The trigger signal is available from the Wolverine.
It is a 3.3 V pulse:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jasjZTjiDkdrzV1k6
Will post the connector pinouts. I suggest using the motor shield. Then you don't depend on Wolverine controller at all and can set any speed you want.

 |  IP: Logged

Kamel Ikhlef
Film Handler

Posts: 56
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted May 31, 2019 08:29 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
for the moment, I did not yet to disassemble the Wolverine. I do not know how to do. I am waiting for your guide. I do my tests outside Wolverine. I'm 50mm distance from the image. The frames are really better. no pink tone. but the imagingsource camera board are little expensive. ICcapture software is very complete and is free but only works with imagingsource cameras.
first picture is wolverine capture, the second is imagingsource capture.  -

Capture with imaging source camera board with F16mm (distance 50mm)
 -

it is clear that wolverine accentuates the video by an electronic reinforcement and mp4 compression degrades much captured image.

I think that we can do better because the lighting of my 2nd images is not uniform. and the flatness is not good. more blurred on the left.

 |  IP: Logged

Stan Jelavic
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted May 31, 2019 11:00 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nice work Kamel. The images that you posted clearly show the difference. I will work on disassembly instructions this weekend so that you can try the lens with the actual unit. BTW - where did you get the test clip. They are pretty expensive.
My update.
Reworked the camera mount and made sure that all sides are properly aligned:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9pfQBZ2uGojDu5RcA
Also rotated the board so that now the image does not require any rotation. This gives a more uniform focus.
Added an IR filer and here is the test picture:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YauGq3Qst5oh5kcu6

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central
This topic comprises 27 pages: 1  2  3  ...  20  21  22  23  24  25  26  27 
 
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2