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Author Topic: Review Wolverine Reels2Digital MovieMaker 8mm film digitizer
Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

- posted March 11, 2019 11:38 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is no way I would walk away from a film being scanned.
EVER
I watch every frame go past, with it connected to a 20" tv so I can keep an eye on the framing, while it sits on the side, or stop it to go and do something more pressing......
#justsaying [Smile]

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Alan Taplow
Junior
Posts: 29
From: Plainfield VT, USA
Registered: Feb 2015

- posted March 11, 2019 12:22 PM      Profile for Alan Taplow   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wish I had the time, Mike, and interesting film subject matter to do that, however as the sole caregiver of my wife with stroke debilitation, there are many times when I have tons of film to process and don't have the ability to watch every frame to say nothing of the patience to watch another set of 2 year-olds splashing around in the bathtub.
So the question is still out there ---

Looking for a loud or flashy signal system to alert me that the film has hit a nasty splice. Has anyone done this? Is there a commercial setup which can be adapted? Any thoughts about building something?

Many thanks --- this is one of the most useful forums I've run across.

--------------------
Alan Taplow
ataplow@gmail.com

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted March 11, 2019 09:29 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Alan.Yes it is possible to make an alarm system. One of the wires that comes out of the transport mechanism is the claw detect. The wire is connected to the controller and used as a time lapse trigger. You can make a small intercept board with the trigger connected to it and then bridged back to the controller. The new board then can have a small alarm circuit on it that senses the loss of pulses. If you are not technically savvy then I suggest wait for the mod that I am coming with using the RPI. I can implement the alarm code in the RPI. It is a good idea to have that in addition to the camera control code.
It may be possible to have something even simpler, possibly a small mirror on the takeup reel and use the IR sensor with arduino:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuX_ZGIRCzo
The TCRT5000 can be mounted on the top of Wolverine close to the takeup reel and sends the pulses to the arduino board every time the mirror passes by it. The arduino can count the pulse rate. If the rate drops below a certain threshold an alarm can be triggered. Hope this helps.

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Alan Taplow
Junior
Posts: 29
From: Plainfield VT, USA
Registered: Feb 2015

- posted March 11, 2019 10:37 PM      Profile for Alan Taplow   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Many thanks, Stan,
When I posed the question I sort of figured I'd hear from you.

I'm understanding what you're suggesting but not savvy enough to construct it --- will wait to see your results.

The take-up reel option is out for me since to reduce jiggling I just let everything run into a large deep carton that my flat screen tv came in --- perfect for letting the film go back & forth without tangling. I rewind with one of the cranks from an old defunct editor. Not pulling the film has made a noticeable difference - no longer have jiggles.

However wondering which wire it is that trips the claw detect and what electrical signal passes thru it. Might a less elegant solution be as simple as tapping a connection off it to a relay to power a buzzer or other signal?

--------------------
Alan Taplow
ataplow@gmail.com

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted March 12, 2019 08:45 AM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The signal comes from an opto-detector. It uses a solid state switch and it may be capable of driving a relay. But to be safe I would use a relay driver such as:
https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Sparkfun%20PDFs/BOB-09118_Web.pdf
You will also need the connectors. Can send you the part numbers. Alternatively, could use the cell phone for motion sense. I can do a small app for you based on:
https://github.com/jjoe64/android-motion-detection
The additional code is needed for lack of motion sense.

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Alan Taplow
Junior
Posts: 29
From: Plainfield VT, USA
Registered: Feb 2015

- posted March 13, 2019 10:38 AM      Profile for Alan Taplow   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Stan, am off on a large order so unfortunately no time right now to work on an alarm signal, however will come back to it later.

One more item on my Wish List for the Wolverine would be a way of adjusting the exposure setting while running. That way, on a large reel, when it shifts from an underexposed scene to a normal or overexposed scene, I could make the adjustment on the fly.

--------------------
Alan Taplow
ataplow@gmail.com

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Kev Morrison
Film Handler

Posts: 76
From: Land of the Mouse, USA
Registered: Feb 2018

- posted March 13, 2019 03:31 PM      Profile for Kev Morrison   Email Kev Morrison   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Alan,

I think the solution that Stan has come up with is what you need, but as a workaround for the time being:

I recently converted 2400ft of Super 8 using a Wolverine Pro. After observing the time it took to process a 50ft reel, I used a timer to alert me when a film splice was imminent. If the film appeared to slow, I could 'nudge' it through.

Since I did very little editing to my film, the timer technique worked pretty well since to processing time per reel stayed mostly the same. I did note that as the take up reel filled (I used 400ft reels), of course, the tendency for it to slow and pause has a splice moved through the gate noticeably increased.

Just a thought!

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted March 14, 2019 08:04 AM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On a second thought the claw detect signal will not work because the claw never stops even when the firm is not advancing. My bad. But the motion sense should work. Compiled the app framework last night and it ran on my phone. Now have to do the necessary mods. The app runs on android phones only.
Once I get the camera working it should be possible to detect the frame update and signal an alarm if there are none after a timeout.

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Alan Taplow
Junior
Posts: 29
From: Plainfield VT, USA
Registered: Feb 2015

- posted March 14, 2019 08:45 AM      Profile for Alan Taplow   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Will be a great use for my old LG android which is sitting here useless for phone, but still picks up internet --- FAN-TASTIC !!!

--------------------
Alan Taplow
ataplow@gmail.com

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted March 19, 2019 11:14 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Got the app working. Here is the demo. Every time I wave my hand in front of the phone the phone vibrates and displays the time in seconds from the last motion detect. If there is no motion for 40 seconds the alarm sounds.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JCzppC_s4m5FOfXLcuacMprlIVtV-11U/view?usp=sharing
The app is based on an existing motion detect app done by a German speaking developer. I left that part as is but had to add the lack of motion detect.
The settings are hard coded for now but I plan to add the settings menu that will have sensitivity values. The default is pretty sensitive and will trip on a slightest motion in the scene.
The apk is available here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VLHhCvSKQvlj9sp5EDS1D4U5nfvxSUPA/view?usp=sharing

You will have to change the phone security to allow unknown app installation and also open up app manager and then allow the app to access the camera. Can provide more detailed instructions if needed.

The app is safe and I will be posting the source as well.
Have fun.

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Kevin R Sexton
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Littlerock, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2018

- posted March 21, 2019 12:57 AM      Profile for Kevin R Sexton   Email Kevin R Sexton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
on the stepper motor, maybe something else would be a better solution?
They are using a stepper motor and a clutch to just provide some limited tension on the take up reel, to keep the film rolled up. The advancing of the film is fully done by the claw advance.
In fact, if you rewind on the wolverine, following the instructions, the completely loose supply side, going under the first roller(though they are not rollers, don't turn) and directly to the takeup, the tension is so low, a reel may overflow.

My thinking is possibly a better motor and better clutch system might help with take-up related problems people are reporting. A geared down motor and a clutch with more precise tension and longer life?

If writing at 2 frames per second is hitting the limit on SD cards, that's something to consider with any rebuilds/mods. Other devices are going to have to deal with the same write speeds, if you are capturing a better, higher resolution or less compressed image, things might have to be slowed down considerably, even with a better card.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted March 21, 2019 12:40 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good thoughts Kevin. Although I am trying to do a full custom version of Wolverine I still want to use the takeup motor but control it from my own board. And that gives me a headache just thinking of how to solve it. I think in my version I will turn it on the off at strategic times. They run it continuous and the picture is taken while the claw is still pulling the film. I confirmed that by taking the video of the claw with their camera (camera loose).
https://photos.app.goo.gl/t4GUWwtVpwh2hbVKA
That can cause a jitter problem because if the takeup tension during the film advance overtakes the claw the film will jitter towards the other side of the hole.
I will try to turn off the takeup motor during film advance and then turn it back on or similar solution. And yes the frame rate will be slower. Can't win them all.
BTW - hit another snag with my gopro mod. Managed to damage another flex cable. This is the buttons flex and it is very delicate. Ifixit don't have any left. Thinking of using the back connector as a workaround. My RPI cam order from China is still in transit somewhere. Its been 3 weeks.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iXwJjWPfJuVwakc36

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted March 21, 2019 08:10 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If still interested Alan, here is the new version of frame jam detect. It uses the default ringtone and the back camera. The phone starts ringing when the film jams. To stop it you have to close the app. Pretty primitive for now.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QOL1i4XoGB4hISMYn7WXmL9XwLBLCecf/view?usp=sharing

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Alan Taplow
Junior
Posts: 29
From: Plainfield VT, USA
Registered: Feb 2015

- posted March 23, 2019 09:45 PM      Profile for Alan Taplow   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am not at all familiar with how to add an app which isn't already listed in the play store. Any help in doing that would be appreciated. Looked over settings, but didn't see anything which looked like a way of adding private apps.

--------------------
Alan Taplow
ataplow@gmail.com

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted March 23, 2019 10:13 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This should work:
Connect your phone to the WiFi router in your place. They in the phone browser go to the link that I posted.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QOL1i4XoGB4hISMYn7WXmL9XwLBLCecf/view?usp=sharing
The phone should prompt you if you wanted to install the app. Say yes to that. You may also get the warning that this is an unknown app or similar warning and it may instruct you how to enable installation of unknown apps.
Generally there is a setting for unknown apps installation.
Settings -> Application -> Unknown sources (Allow installation of non-Market applications).
Let me know if you manage to install it because once it runs you may have to do a few more minor setting changes.
GOPRO update. Not dead yet. Working on the back connector control. That way I can control the cam fully from my RPI. Got the connector but need a smaller soldering iron tip. Bought a set of 5. Should do the trick.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted March 31, 2019 10:59 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Finally got the RASPI cam. Tried it with the Wolverine using the Wolverine lens mounted on the RASPI cam:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZQ2NAhTtNff53veR6
This was just a quick test so no fancy hardware for now. Just wanted to see what the frame grab looks like. The Wolverine original frame grabbed from the mp4 file looks sharper and brighter but looks like too much of sharpening applied (maybe my settings). The RASPI image looks blurry. I tried adjusting the focus but this was the best I could get. The edges are out of the focus because I do not have a solid lens mount yet.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/t5YVvaHAz8GaHGCDA
RASPI is on the right.

I also noticed that they must be doubling up the frame digitally. With the similar optics setup (my sensor is actually smaller) I get only half of their frame size after cropping.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted April 01, 2019 11:28 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Did some work on the lens mount. Now it is nice and parallel to the film. The reused the Wolverine lens.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zPaHtoEBP9rznFJp8
Applied unsharp mask to the captured image and I believe I got it to match the Wolverine pretty close. Surprisingly the Wolverine image shows very little compression. I say this because my image has no compression at all. It is a BMP cam capture. But there is lots of sharpening applied and that is not good. Possibly the scene details are such that the compression artifacts are not visible but you be the judge. The red tinge in my image is from the RPI led - will fix that. Also considering a new lens that would give me the full HD size frame. Wolverine lens is 720 x 480 and they resize it and then sharpen it. Pretty sure of that. Can provide more detail if interested.

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James Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Norwich, UK
Registered: Jan 2015

- posted April 07, 2019 07:05 AM      Profile for James Wilson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,
can anyone give me any details on the Somicon. Have they improved from the early versions. Are they more reliable, is the coding any better, are they direct drive. Just asking this because I`m now thinking of getting one, please help if you can.
Many Thanks,
James.

--------------------
James Wilson

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted April 07, 2019 11:38 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Finally got the camera and the stepper working together. The python control code advances the frame and then takes the picture and stores it and then back to stepper...
Here is a short clip generated from the images:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5cG4qCWCRVQnQDbk8

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Alan Taplow
Junior
Posts: 29
From: Plainfield VT, USA
Registered: Feb 2015

- posted April 19, 2019 11:30 AM      Profile for Alan Taplow   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since Wolverine misses the boat with regard to a built-in capability to output a file at normal 8mm speeds and at an acceptable mp4 quality, a certain amount of post-capture work is required to get acceptable movies. I developed a work flow and am wondering whether others are doing something simpler or better than my workflow.
I've been:
1-Setting up 4 folders on my C:\ drive: Raw, Muxed, Enhanced, and Final.
2-copying files from the sd card to the Raw folder on C:\drive.
3-Using MyMP4Box, de-mux each raw file, and then muxing it at either 16 or 18 fps. Save results in Muxed folder.
4- Using the enhancing part of AnyMP4, enhance to smooth out the
Wolverine visual noise and get rid of inherent speckling. Save the results in the Enhanced folder.
5. Do an edit in NCH VideoPad. Here is where I run through to eliminate the sections hung up on the Wolverine as a result of bad splices, make any other needed crops, edits, whatever, and save the results in the Final Folder.

I imagine that each of us doing a reasonable number of Wolverine transfers has developed a work flow routine. Perhaps this fits in this Wolverine thread, or perhaps it could be a separate thread --- up to the moderators. Anyway it's an important part of using this good, but incomplete Wolverine machine if a quality output is required.

--------------------
Alan Taplow
ataplow@gmail.com

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

- posted April 20, 2019 08:58 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stan that is quite simply amazing!
well done. Look how rock steady the image is too, and I really like the overscan. brilliant.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted April 20, 2019 09:57 AM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Mike. I am pretty happy with the results as well. I even did not tweak the cam settings at all. I am currently on a hiatus for a few weeks visiting my aunt but when I get back plan to do the following:
- Finalize the design. Will share the results here. Things like lens selection and different settings.
- put together a mod kit for Wolverine with all instructions and BOM and code source for the DIY guys. This will be totally free.
- Offer a complete kit with instructions for people with less hw and sw experience. Obviously will have to charge for this but not planning to make money doing this 😀 At least recover my cost.

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Kev Morrison
Film Handler

Posts: 76
From: Land of the Mouse, USA
Registered: Feb 2018

- posted April 20, 2019 10:03 AM      Profile for Kev Morrison   Email Kev Morrison   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"- Offer a complete kit with instructions for people with less hw and sw experience. Obviously will have to charge for this but not planning to make money doing this 😀 At least recover my cost".

Stan, sounds perfectly fair to me! You've put the time & effort into it, at least cover your costs.

Gee - wonder if the Wolverine folks monitor this forum.... [Roll Eyes]

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

- posted April 20, 2019 11:45 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stan I am most certainly up for doing some mods on my wolverine now I have stopped doing my 'super 8 rescue'

Take your time, real life places demands on us which means we have to stop the fun bits we enjoy messing about with.

I am currently wearing my 'matron hat' for a very poorly partner.

No time do anything other than dispense meds, cook, and do domestic chores for the last two weeks.

I would certainly use your mods to re scan my own footage again.

I would be very happy to help you recover any costs to mod my wolverine.

Kev it is quite likely because I sent an angry email to Wolverine during my early motor failures and sent a link to this forum so they could see I was not the only person with issues.

Wolverine data also watch my you tube channel and 'dislike' my Wolverine failure videos [Eek!] [Smile] [Smile]

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted April 20, 2019 07:15 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Looks like my posts got out of sync... not a big deal. Anyways as Mike says the real life takes precedence. My aunt is 95 and I am her only relative.
I will get the PCB done that will contain the interface circuitry and it will completely replace the Wolverine controller. The only thing reused from the controller is the lens. I plan to have an alternative lens that has more optical magnification but that is optional. May not be needed. I will use this forum to post the results with different lenses and settings and will let you be the judge. The bottom line is that this project will be fully open source. You will be in full control. That is the best way in my opinion to get something that really works. As I said I will offer fully assembled kit fully programmed for those that want to go that way.

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