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Author Topic: LED projector bulbs ? on the way.
Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3738
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted December 21, 2017 03:48 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I noticed on my latest sales list from Steve Osbourne talk of an LED projector bulb possibly in the offing.

Does anyone know more please.

Are they just for the GS1200 or also the ST1200 etc ( 150 watt ) and even 12 volt 100 watt lamps.

If we could get a significant light upgrade with a cree led lamp etc on all machines be superb.

Thanks in anticipation.

Best Mark.

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted December 22, 2017 02:48 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
LEDs seem to improve every year. My street is now lit by them instead of High Pressure Sodium vapour lamps. They also come in 2" round 12v versions that would fit into a projector (I have fitted one to a 16mm B&H for use on a small screen to check films & 8mm to take still photos from frames) so I have high hopes that soon these will be common.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted December 22, 2017 08:11 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What's encouraging here is many of the most common projection lamps are used in equipment that is still being manufactured today. For example one day a couple of years ago I was at work and I saw a very familiar looking box on a cart. I looked at it: it was an Osram EFR. I checked into it and it turns out they use them in microscopes. I think that both EFP and EFR are also used in that obnoxious light that the dentist shines in your face too.

The fact that these are still being put in new equipment is a big part of what keeps them cheap, and it makes them good candidates for LED equivalents.

The downside is the lamps that are made in much smaller quantities probably won't make the leap and may go extinct.

What would be nice is if they made lamps that were drop in replacements that made more light, but I think they will probably go for the same light with less electrical power.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Will Trenfield
Master Film Handler

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From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted December 22, 2017 04:37 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sadly, many fine, older projectors used the 8v 50w "spaceman" bulb and I can't see an affordable LED replacement being viable. Cheap as chips in their day, a replacement bulb now can cost more than the projector's worth.

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Paul Browning
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted December 23, 2017 05:18 AM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The problem with the led lamp of any kind is that you need a lens in front of it to focus all the output. There are plenty of variations out there that would be better in the colour range much whiter light output, including the excellent range by cree, but all need a lens, and it needs to be a bulls eye lens, fitting all that into the projector housing would be a task. You can fit an hid lamp into any projector no matter what the original wattage was, but it needs to be incorporated into the original reflector, and positioned correctly within the reflector to focus all the output on the gate, it can be done because I've done it, if you want to know more pm me, I can help you with some of the tricky stuff, these reflectors are glass and need to carefully cut, tricky task.

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted December 23, 2017 05:27 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Whats a HID lamp Paul.

I`ve seen them mentioned but not actually in the know myself.

Best Mark. Thanks.

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Paul Browning
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: West Midlands United Kingdom
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 - posted December 23, 2017 06:50 AM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi mark HID

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Paul Browning
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 993
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
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 - posted December 23, 2017 06:55 AM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi mark HID, high intensity discharge lamp, same as the car type headlights, earlier version, same lamp BILL fits to the GS, but less wattage, 35 watts, not 150 watts. Its an arc lamp, using xenon gas, so burns brighter, much brighter than a filament lamp.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted December 23, 2017 09:47 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As these bulbs dont run anywhere near as hot as our current bulbs would this effect the running of the machine, do projectors need to get up to a warm run to work properly?

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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 - posted December 23, 2017 09:51 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I’ve had one or two that change speed as they heat up, but they also drift in focus as the gate area gets heated by the lamp. This would be much steadier with an LED in place.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Paul Browning
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 993
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
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 - posted December 23, 2017 10:36 AM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Which lamp are you referring to Tom ?, the led lamp needs a lens to focus it, you would need to incorporate this into the side housing, but would still get some heat, I don't think there is a warm up time for the led, but there will be for the HID to get to brightness, although the existing fan would probably be good enough to keep it cool. I don't know about the heating up of the gate Steve, but I'm sure your correct, would it be any less with led, I don't know, I just think it would a task to get something suitable for all machines, where as the HID route could be retro fitted to any projector......

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted December 23, 2017 01:21 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Paul thank you for the message.

The HID route sounds very interesting.

Might be a good way to help keep the hobby going making 100 watt machines that are a little lacking far better.

I`ll message back now.

Thanks Mark.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted December 23, 2017 02:11 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Paul, i was thinking that the standard A1/232 12v 150w (like all bulbs) gets very hot, the heat of these makes the whole projector warm/hot so with LED bulbs only getting warm by comparison, would the projector be at a disadvantage, i dont think im putting it into words very well. [Embarrassed] [Frown]
[Wink]

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Jake Mayes
Expert Film Handler

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From: Bath, UK
Registered: Sep 2012


 - posted December 24, 2017 08:46 AM      Profile for Jake Mayes   Email Jake Mayes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My sankyo 702 projector has a 150w lamp, and they get HOT. An LED alternative of the right colour would be amazing. I have never had this happen on my projectors but it would also stop jammed film burning in the gate as well.

Would probably have a longer life, i have had my projector blow a lamp during a showing with friends luckily towards the end, without having a spare on hand [Wink] It would be a good idea as it would run cooler.

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Adam Deierling
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From: OH
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 - posted December 24, 2017 09:04 AM      Profile for Adam Deierling   Email Adam Deierling   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is the article Steve Osborne sent me about the new bulbs Can anyone translate it from german???

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sBkdMg9Xb6Z-mb4Wy9oERFmOwBdHJYns

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
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 - posted December 24, 2017 06:25 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank You Adam, I hope this comes off and will be adaptable to other super 8 and or 16mm machines.

I have a serious cree LED torch and with 6 volts of power ( 4 x C 1.5 volt ) the distance and light of the beam beam is amazing.

Best Mark.

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

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From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
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 - posted December 25, 2017 06:13 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe Van Eck was also working on a LED conversion, but the film gets too white and you loose details I´ve heared..

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Jose Artiles
Master Film Handler

Posts: 355
From: Spain
Registered: Oct 2005


 - posted December 27, 2017 09:54 AM      Profile for Jose Artiles   Email Jose Artiles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can read on the PDF file that the led will not give more power light,just the same as the esc lamp but with more natural colours due to the White light of the led.The Price for the conversión kit will be 200 euros (177,505GBP) or 238,165USD.

--------------------
As Steven Spielberg says....
Nothing beats old school projection. Digital is just an imitation.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3738
From: UK
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 - posted December 27, 2017 02:23 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thats enough information for me then thanks Jose.

Best Mark.

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: California
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 - posted January 02, 2018 07:28 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's the full translation, guys. And forgive me for raining on the parade, but no additional light, a color temperature bluer than sunlight, and the high cost all make me want to run the other way.

quote:

Cineworld-Technik App

LED instead of halogen for the Elmo: the "200W Power LED Kit" is coming!

Patrick van Thielens’ semi-professional solutions regarding the "Elmo GS1200" film projector have been reported several times in Cine 8-16. The Tinkerer is currently dealing with a problem that will eventually confront all projectors' owners: replacing conventional halogen lamps with the new LED technology.

Text & photos: Patrick van Thielen
Composition: Dr. Arne Bernd, Uwe Brengel

The "200W Power LED Kit" Set consists of a power supply and a cooled LED lamp with 200W light output. In many Super 8 and 16mm film projectors, the often installed "cold light" halogen lamps can now be replaced by the almost completely "cold light" from LEDs. The figure shows one of the first types of the new set with the example of a "Elmo GS/ST1200" projector; the newer version now has a cold light mirror flange, so no conversion is required in the projector. The kit from the Netherlands does not intend to bring more light onto the screen than the original lamp. The power supply and LED lamp are tuned in such a way that a significantly higher efficiency of the lamp is achieved, but there is no more light on the wall than the original. However, due to the higher color temperature of 6,500 kelvin (compared to 3,400 kelvin of halogen lamps) The new version provides a much better and natural color rendition of the projected images. The more yellow-colored halogen lamps aren’t exactly created for realistic film images. The "Power LED" shows a projection size of one meter of natural images - snow is white, sky is already blue. It creates a full, "saturated" illumination at the right angle of projection. So there is no "hot spot" on the screen. The Power LED kit works completely independently of the film projector through the “Exteme” power supply. Therefore, the power supply of the LED does not take place via the projector, but directly externally. The connection of the LED is placed outward to the projector housing. A complete technical description would be beyond the scope of the article. However, it is safe to know that with some technical understanding, the film projector can also be retrofitted with the "Power LED kit" by unpracticed hands and a maximum of two hours of time.

"Power LED" is currently still in the experimental test phase, so it is still not for sale. Van Thielen hopes to be able to offer his conversion kit from 2018 in the newly planned online shop for film materials and technology. The price is then to move around 200 euros.

The latest version of the "Reelporter 2400ft" (see article in Cine 8-16 Edition 26) will also be available in the shop, which will then be in three different variants. In addition, new large film reels for Super 8 and 16mm are in development. As soon as the shop starts or the new offers are available for purchase, we will report it.



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Adam Deierling
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: OH
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 - posted January 02, 2018 09:10 PM      Profile for Adam Deierling   Email Adam Deierling   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lets not forget that xenon lamps are anywhere between 6k and 6.5k. The color temp of this LED conversion is right where it should be.

Also regarding light output...when I test a halogen gs1200 vs a xenon with my light meter the xenon is only marginally brighter. We perceive them to be brighter because of the color temp.

I am all in favor of the new LED tech. Its going to extend this hobby so long as the y can get the design right.

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 343
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted January 03, 2018 02:49 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interessting artical.

6500K (Kelvin) is right where I Calibrate the videoprojectors on with the ISF-Calibrations.
Video projectors tend to be on the 7000K or higher for giving more light output, but after calibration they are spot on.
When I started with 8mm again I was amazed how warm the lightoutput was, so I took my messure equipment and saw that it was only around 3500K. Not good at all.

Only,.. there is also the HID 150W conversionkit, which is also whither, but I believe with a higher brightness.
For the HID conversion I need to bring my projector away, while this LED version is just like replacing the Lamp.
The difference is that the LED conver

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted January 03, 2018 03:01 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If this kit will fit other projectors, there may be an noticeable difference vs a 100 watts lamp.

--------------------
Dominique

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Matthieu van der Sluis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 343
From: Barendrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted January 03, 2018 03:04 AM      Profile for Matthieu van der Sluis   Author's Homepage   Email Matthieu van der Sluis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
With the Bauer T610 keeping the gate open longer, it would give an increddible amount of light.

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1674
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted January 03, 2018 03:33 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder if, as an LED doesn't fail early with being switched on and off (and does so instantaneously) the next step could be doing away with the shutter entirely and just have the lamp turn off during pull down and again to prevent flicker. Electronically timed from the drive and able to emulate 3 blade or 2 blade dependent on speed setting. If only they were still manufacturing projectors today!!!!

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