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Topic: LED projector bulbs ? on the way.
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Pere Pasqual
Film Handler
Posts: 43
From: Gandia, València, Spain
Registered: May 2017
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posted February 05, 2018 05:57 PM
Hi all! I'm following this thread with great attention, as well as other similar ones regarding LED replacements. My aim is to find one that suits the most regular, 12V 100W MR16 form factor ones. A quick search on Google probes that it's not an easy subject as one would expect, or I'm maybe doing the wrong search. Do these definitely exist? I don't mind having to order them from China and waiting a month or so, and even if they got lost in during its journey it would be worth the attempt as its not an expensive item. I wonder why I don't see any clear info about this on the forum, even with direct links to online stores where one would buy them ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I'm also doing my research locally. I mean - here we have plenty of these so-called "Chinese stores" where you can buy anything. They also have their typical lighting section, with plenty MR16 models. For a while I've been seeing replacements for the 50W 12V type, but that was all...
...but last week I happened to spot a couple of definitely new models - they were 8 and 9 W each, and advertised as 80 and 90 W equivalent respectively. Couldn't resist getting one for testing purposes. I finally got the 8 W model (advertised as 800 lm) because it was the only in white light. I knew in advance it wasn't going to be a proper replacement, but wanted to try.
It would almost fit into my projector, if it weren't because it lacks the little "flange" their halogen sisters have for keeping it in place. Anyway, I managed to get it in the right position for a while while testing. Certainly it makes like 10-20% more light than its 50 W halogen equivalent, but it's not suitable for proper projection, yet. But it makes me wonder if we are as close as it seems. I also like the nice white light it made, which made my testing 8mm B&W reel shine, giving a very clean image (if it weren't because it wasn't clear enough).
And almost nothing else. Well, I have to say that this bulb has a 160º light beam, and almost no leds in the center, so it worsens the condition.
I also though about some moding, mainly for placing more leds in the middle. Do you have any idea on how this would perform? If I could remove some leds from the borders and place them more close to the center, narrowing the beam, I'm sure I would get decent results.
Last thing is that, as expected, it doesn't get hot. Well, you can feel some sort of warmness if you touch it, but there's plenty margin until reaching, let's say, half the heat of a halogen.
PS: post edit in order to correct some mistakes due to falling asleep ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) . Also added some more info.
[ February 07, 2018, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Pere Pasqual ]
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Pere Pasqual
Film Handler
Posts: 43
From: Gandia, València, Spain
Registered: May 2017
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posted February 07, 2018 04:54 PM
Just to boost this thread:
I don't know if it's allowed to post links to buying sites, but in my search for led replacements I'm very tempted on trying some of these ones being sold at chinese online stores.
After a huge amount of time researching, I found this:
https://www.dhgate.com/product/high-power-cree-led-lamp-12w-4x3w-dimmable/1446 22609.html#ENhp-en
There is a number of very similar products on that site, but I like this one the most dues to some factors:
- It has a lot of user reviews (currently some 260), the vast majority of them being very positive. Although they start from 2013 (if not upgraded, the product could be a bit "old").
- I read in some of them that they are successfully using them for halogen replacement (they don't specify if it's for a projector, though).
- The measurements seem to fit inside a standard projector.
- Reviews are very recent, so this probably mean it's a very recent new model.
So in this link you can buy a 10 piece pack (at least) of 15 W dimmable (that doesn't really mind) MR16 pure white, warm white or cool white bulbs, for about $20, with free shipping. Beam angle is 270º, though.
Do you think it's worth the attempt?
Also there are these ones:
https://www.dhgate.com/product/9w-dimmable-led-bulb-12w-bulb-15w-led-bulb/1771 59874.html#ENhp-en
They are 15 W too, but the bean angle is just 60º, very narrow so I understand it should work better for projectors. Price is slighty higher, but still less than $30 for a 10-piece pack. Reviews start from 2014 (much more less, about 45, but still a relevant number).
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Pere Pasqual
Film Handler
Posts: 43
From: Gandia, València, Spain
Registered: May 2017
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posted February 08, 2018 03:53 PM
This starts moving!
Very interesting info, indeed. I'm very tempted to buy one of these. Which one do you thing would fit best for our purposes? Maybe the 10 W one? I see the "fordward voltage" for these ones is the closest to our machines: from 9 to 11 V, and luminous flux is about 1000 LM. Still a bit less than a halogen lamp (how many lumens do these emit? Maybe some 1500?), but starts looking interesting. Would that extre Volt burn our lamp or have any significant negative impact on it? What about the 20 W ones? They are rated for 30-34 V, so we would need some voltage regulator or so in order to get it worken. My electronic skills are very limited, though ![[Frown]](frown.gif) , but I have some abilities with solder and making PCBs.
Also, I found this 60º lens for led:
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1set-LED-Lens-Optical-Glass-44mm-60-degree-Reflector-Collimator-Houseing-Fixed-Bracket-with-Holder-For/32806017168.html?spm=a219c.10010108.1000023.19 .1d4f5270mVXSov
Anyone willing to experiment? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Pere Pasqual
Film Handler
Posts: 43
From: Gandia, València, Spain
Registered: May 2017
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posted February 15, 2018 04:08 PM
Thanks a lot for reporting, Adam. And please forgive my delay in participating.
I am interesting on which exact configurations have you tried, because I couldn't infere it 100% from your post. For instance, did you try the ones Phil Murat linked on his last post? And what about some kind of lens like the one I suggested?
If you haven't, as these are inexpensive items, I'd give them a try...
---
I am editing my own post because I want to add further questions and discoveries.
for instance, I see a lot of references on the net to some "CREE XML XM-L LED" that seem to be the ones used for high-lumen torches and so. If they can work with batteries with a very narrow angle and large distances, why shouldn't them work for projection?
A quick search shows that is easy to find cheap supplies for those on the typical stores:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-PCS-CREE-XML-XM-L-T6-LED-U2-10W-WHITE-High-Power-LED-Emitter-Diode/32796030941.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-PCS-CREE-XML-XM-L-T6-LED-U2-10W-WHITE-High-Power-LED-Emitter-Diode/32800476827.html
Look at the power, current and lumen ratings of these. Also look at the shape of the light source itself and the dimensions of the full "chip". They assure they deliver about 1200 lumen. Power is 10 W and current is rated for 3.2-3.6V @ 3000 mA max (so I understand we would need some voltage regulator). Diamether of full PCB ranges from 12 to 20 mm, so we have plenty of space to fit them into a regular MR16 reflector...
Then they I found these new ones at a Spanish store, the biggest advantage being that they seem to be ready to work at 12 v (delivering about 1000 lm; more with more current):
https://www.shoptronica.com/led-de-alta-potencia/1745-led-de-potencia-10w-blancos.html
Those ones, for 13-15v and delivering about 1500 lm:
https://www.shoptronica.com/led-de-alta-potencia/1703-led-de-20w-16-chip-con-lente.html
In the same page you can see that there exist plenty of reflector for this model of led and other, too. Dimensions vary and I'm not sure which ones would fit better to our needs; in my measurements I see that classic MR16 are between some 42ish mm for internal diameter and about 50 mm for external. Here are some reflectors with similar dimensions; even more, on some pictures you can see the LED already mounted on them:
https://www.shoptronica.com/reflectores-metalicos-para-led/3249-reflector-de-aluminio-de-42x33mm-para-p7-mce.html
https://www.shoptronica.com/reflectores-metalicos-para-led/4182-reflector-de-aluminio-de-42x31mm-para-xml-xpl.html
https://www.shoptronica.com/reflectores-metalicos-para-led/4183-reflector-de-aluminio-de-415x315mm-para-xml-xpl.html
https://www.shoptronica.com/reflectores-metalicos-para-led/4290-reflector-de-aluminio-de-409x32mm-para-xml-xpl.html
This one is rated for 5-10-20 W leds:
https://www.shoptronica.com/reflectores-metalicos-para-led/1957-reflector-metalizado-de-57x22mm-para-led-5-10-20w.html
And finally, some optics. I don't know almost anything about how they work, but they state the angle is wider or narrower depending on the focal distance, from 22 to 65º:
https://www.shoptronica.com/reflectores-lentes-para-led-de-alta-potencia/1017-lente-de-cristal-de-445mm.html
There are plenty; these ones work between 25 to 30º wide, which looks very narrow to me, and are specific for those high luminosity "XM-L" leds (or "CREE XML"). To me it looks very "focusable":
https://www.shoptronica.com/reflectores-lentes-para-led-de-alta-potencia/283-lente-acrilica-43mm-para-seoul-p7-z7.html
It may look like advertising but it's just what I've found surfing the web. In another store's blog (https://www.ledsupply.com/blog/7-cool-diy-led-projects/), they have this little project of a "projector" with one of these tiny leds, with a couple of AA bateries. There is a 2 min video showing it and looks very promising:
https://youtu.be/VpOF2CrQvsM
Please excuse me for the big amount of links and messy information, but I'm really reluctant to believe that currently we cannot still fit one of these inside our old projectors and make them work. There should be someone with good knowledge of these and/or optics which could, well, enlighten us on the matter...
[ February 20, 2018, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: Pere Pasqual ]
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Pere Pasqual
Film Handler
Posts: 43
From: Gandia, València, Spain
Registered: May 2017
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posted June 19, 2018 09:22 AM
I recently got a couple 100w 12v halogen bulbs and still cyclically stumble upon this issue.
Common sense just doesn't allow me to really believe that this cannot be relatively easy accomplished still in 2018. I've done a fair amount of extra googling and "research" and I've found some counter examples showing that it can be done. Some examples:
- Lego projector. This was already featured in this forum when it was brought to life... which was like 7 years ago! The relevant part here is that it uses an inexpensive flashlight as a light source.
The problem here is that neither a parts list nor detailed building instructions where ever published, and that would be very useful in further attempts, at least to get an idea of the minium lumen output of any flashlight to try. But here there go a couple links to inexpensive flashlights that are supposed to deliver a decent amount of light, they are single-chipped, focusable and, when taken apart from the battery casing, it looks like they would fit inside a projector. You can see many pictures of them in action in the ratings section, uploaded by customers, and they seem to deliver to proper amount of light:
https://www.banggood.com/Elfeland-1201-XM-L-T6-2000LM-5modes-Zoomable-LED-Flashlight-18650AAA-p-1172010.html?rmmds=category&cur_warehouse=CN
https://www.banggood.com/MECO-XM-L-T6-3600LM-Zoomable-LED-Flashlight-2x18650-p-982567.html?rmmds=category&cur_warehouse=CN
[URL]https://www.banggood.com/Astrolux-C8-XP-L-HI-1A-1300Lumens-74modes-A6-Driver-Tactical-EDC-LED-Flashlight-18650-p-1217415.html?rmmds=detail-bottom-alsobought__1&cur_warehouse=C N[/URL]
https://www.banggood.com/MECO-XM-L2-5-Modes-2000LM-Zoomable-LED-Flashlight-p-982520.html?rmmds=category&cur_warehouse=CN
https://www.banggood.com/Elfeland-XM-L-T6-3Modes-2000LM-USB-Rechargeable-Zoomable-LED-Flashlight18650-p-1110220.html?rmmds=category&cur_warehouse=CN
https://www.banggood.com/BLF-A6-XPL-1600LM-7-4modes-EDC-LED-Flashlight-p-991823.html?rmmds=detail-bottom-alsobought__2&cur_warehouse=CN
- Light intensity comparisons for different flashlights. With pictures. This at least shows that the proper amount of light can be obtained by using those kind of flashlights, and they use regular batteries, so to my knowledge it should be possible to attach them to a DC power source, right?
I get lost when trying to do the calculations about the current (in Ampers) that a power source, or the projector itself, would need to provide to the led chip (in fact I don't know the ratings for a 100w 12v halogen lamp); can anyone give some hint on this? But I'm confident it should at least equal the one a couple of standard battteries provide...
These Instructables link may offer some light on that question, though.
Another similar one.
- Replacing an electronic projector bulb with a LED cheap one. Not the best link, but, again, showing that something similar to our goal can be sort of accomplished.
Finally, there's also quite few topics in lightning-related forums here and there (maybe these are the best places to ask for help); not the most useful ones but some hints and ideas can be collected from there:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?434464-Su ggestions-on-how-to-replace-projector-bulb-with-an-LED
Waiting for your comments...
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