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Author Topic: HID lamp for GS1200
Clive Casey
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 112
From: Barrow-in-Furness, UK
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted March 22, 2019 11:44 AM      Profile for Clive Casey   Email Clive Casey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi everyone, I have been looking back at some old postings regarding installing a HID lamp in a GS1200 and noticed quite a lot of different opinions on the subject. Has anyone converted one recently, is it a big job and lastly is it worth it?
It would be nice to hear from someone that has done a conversion and tell me of the pit falls.
Thanks in advance, Clive

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted March 22, 2019 12:32 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Clive

I have no knowledge of an HID 150 conversion on the GS-1200 but I do have a 16mm Bell & Howell 644 which has been converted.

First of all, these lamps cannot be switched on and off as a conventional lamp can be. It would seriously shorten its life if a hot lamp recently switched off is switched on again. Therefore, it is necessary to have some form of dowser fitted to "hide" the beam whilst changing reels. As the lamp remains on for the duration of a show it will also need a small fan on continuously.

A ballast is required to control the lamp and space will be needed to install it. All in all, as the Elmo has a good light output, would it be really necessary to convert one due to the work required and the cost involved.

I can say that the light output is very bright, and most importantly, very white. In fact it makes faded prints look much improved on the screen.

https://www.stagesuperstore.co.uk/xenpow-hid-150-discharge-lamp-4320-p.asp

--------------------
Maurice

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Clive Casey
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 112
From: Barrow-in-Furness, UK
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted March 22, 2019 12:43 PM      Profile for Clive Casey   Email Clive Casey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Maurice, Thanks for the reply. The only reason for considering going down the route of HID is for the white light you get from one. It seems more and more that such a lot of the 8mm prints are pink, unless you pay an arm and a leg for an LPP print. I know you can use a blue filter, which helps, but does cut down on the light output. Maybe I should stick to black and white.
Regards, Clive

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Leon Norris
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 958
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted March 22, 2019 12:51 PM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I will have to check in to this! The more light the better! If they do have a HID lamp for the GS1200 I would love to install one!

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Leonard Goss
Film Handler

Posts: 33
From: Launceston, Cornwall, UK.
Registered: Jul 2012


 - posted March 22, 2019 02:13 PM      Profile for Leonard Goss   Email Leonard Goss   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Have you considered the possibility of an LED conversion? LEDs are so bright these days they are used for car headlamps. They are also very white and produce little or no heat. Also, long life. I realise that a DC supply would be required but I think it's worth considering.

--------------------
A fan of 8mm movies since the mid 1960s and still as keen as ever!

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Leon Norris
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 958
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted March 22, 2019 02:19 PM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I will look in to it! To see what's best!

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 22, 2019 04:36 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The brightest GS1200 on the planet is owned by John Clancy in the UK, and I believe it uses an HTI lamp. John uses it for the BFCC shows on the massive 30ft screen and it holds up very well. The conversion is very neat with the projector sitting on top of the high voltage power supply.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Bill Parsons
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: Brookland. UK
Registered: Jul 2004


 - posted March 23, 2019 03:10 AM      Profile for Bill Parsons   Email Bill Parsons   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for your comments Paul, It was me that converted Johns GS1200 to HTI, there was a lot of work went into this getting the larger lamp to fit, and apart from the power supply you mention I had to cram an ignitor inside the projector, I did this by removing one of the speakers.
I have done a lot of HID conversions to the GS1200, the GS lends itself to this as it has a separate fan motor which I slightly increase the speed of, you can also utilise the built in still picture dowser, plus modify the lamp holder so that the HID lamp can be clamped in properly, the ballast I clamp underneath rather like the Xenon version, also increase the height of the rear foot assembly because of this. Not everyone likes the whiter light but the results are pretty impressive.
I have experimented with LED, but I personally can not find a way of concentrating/focusing the light through the tiny frame of the super 8mm film, it needs some sort of condenser lens, the LED lamps do of course work but make a better job of illuminating the lamphouse than the screen.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted March 23, 2019 06:18 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a friend who had an LED conversion fitted in to a 16mm B+H and he is very pleased with it.

There was talk from Steve Osbourne about a LED super 8 conversion on the way ? Not sure how far that got.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pack-of-3-x-ESC-24V-200W-PROJECTOR-LAMP-BULB-FOR-ELMO-GS1200-UK-STOCK/183737070791?hash=item2ac79534c7:g:GVIAAOSwJ-pbBFEz

Not sure what these are like but look good value.

A 1.0 or Xenovaron might be a good upgrade for now Clive if you just use the 1.1 ?

Best Mark.

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004


 - posted March 23, 2019 08:06 AM      Profile for Simon McConway   Email Simon McConway   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill converted my GS to HID150 and, as expected, it is stunning. The light is a perfect colour temperature for film projection and makes faded prints look much better.

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Clive Casey
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 112
From: Barrow-in-Furness, UK
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted March 23, 2019 10:21 AM      Profile for Clive Casey   Email Clive Casey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you gents for all the comments, if I go ahead with it I will keep you all informed.
Best wishes to all. Clive

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Leon Norris
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 958
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted March 23, 2019 05:05 PM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think I'll go HTI! It seems to give the best light! So we will see!

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted March 24, 2019 04:06 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You won't regret it, Leon.
The output of the correct ESC is 3400 degrees Kelvin, whereas the HID 150 is a stunning 6500.
Sunlight in its purest form can only get to 5000!

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Maurice

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Colin Fish
Film Handler

Posts: 68
From: Eastbourne, UK
Registered: Nov 2016


 - posted March 24, 2019 01:22 PM      Profile for Colin Fish   Email Colin Fish   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Maurice, What power supply would I need for this HID lamp?

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted March 24, 2019 03:03 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Colin
You need a ballast.
It is quite some years ago now that my 16mm Bell & Howell was converted by my engineer. Click below to see the (now obsolete) ballast that was used.

https://internationallamps.co.uk/product/venture-electronic-ballast-for-hid-150w-vys150255/

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Maurice

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted March 25, 2019 03:06 AM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Maurice,

Do you have any picture for your conversion?

Do you confirm HID bulb life is expected to last about 750H ?

Thanks in advance

Phil

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted March 25, 2019 04:08 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry Phil, I do not have any pictures.
There is nothing much to see, outwardly the only difference is a small toggle switch for the lamp. Inside the condenser lens assembly has been transferred into a lamp-holder, and the original perforated still shutter is now solid metal acting as a dowser. The original fan was removed to make room for the ballast. A small permanently on electric fan was installed. The electronics were very widely altered.
The conversion was done in March 2013 and since then it has done about 35 hours. As you say, it is claimed that the lamp's life is 750 hours, but I shall probably never get that far. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Maurice

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Leon Norris
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 958
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted March 25, 2019 05:19 PM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can't wait to try this HTI Lamp out ! I am dieing to see this light output! I have someone getting me the kit! So we will see!

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