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Author Topic: Vinegar Syndrome Odor Cure
Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted July 13, 2014 09:43 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll also say to Pat: "Please don't leave." Everything is a matter of opinion and I was interested to hear about the test described.

As an example of a different point of view regarding VS, dare I say that personally I think it's a waste of time cleaning a projector that has projected a VS film. VS isn't a virus, it's a chemical reaction. The chances of miniscule amounts of VS-induced gas setting off VS while a subsequent print momentarily goes through a projector is virtually impossible in my opinion, but if anyone thinks otherwise and can find the time for extra cleaning, good luck to them.

I'm inclined to think that cases where VS appears to have spread in a big way are linked to situations in which a lot of prints have been stored in too hot conditions. There have been cases in which people have found a VS print right next to another on the same reel, and the other print is fine. Clearly some films are more susceptible than others.

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Adrian Winchester

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 13, 2014 09:43 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Pat,

You have been a friendly face on this Forum for years and it wouldn't be the same without you.

Do what you want with your films, but please keep posting here.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 13, 2014 10:33 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What's wrong with reporting an experience made on a copy that was on the way to be lost anyway ? As he said, Pat did not advise to repeat it on good prints. And, Doug, thanksfully, Pat did not say neither that he would leave us !

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Dominique

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David Guest
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1704
From: Lancashire, UK
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted July 14, 2014 08:00 AM      Profile for David Guest   Email David Guest   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
try shake and vac its puts the freshness back

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted July 14, 2014 10:18 AM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pat take one Jack Daniels if you want a mixer with it just put two shots of JD in add ice, drink slowly and savour it.

All this while watching your favourite film.

SHEER BLISS [Wink] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted July 14, 2014 11:52 AM      Profile for Paul Barker   Email Paul Barker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
nice one david. gave me a laugh, that did.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted July 14, 2014 12:28 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
As an example of a different point of view regarding VS, dare I say that personally I think it's a waste of time cleaning a projector that has projected a VS film. VS isn't a virus, it's a chemical reaction.
Yes, I agree. It's not contagious, as I said a few posts earlier.

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Roger Shunk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 604
From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted July 15, 2014 08:52 AM      Profile for Roger Shunk   Author's Homepage   Email Roger Shunk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings fellow film enthusiasts!

Ok I took Pat's Febreze challenge and applied it on a VS Film.
I did this on Saturday and used the Hawaiian Aloha scent and placed it in the can and checked it this morning and no VS Smell!
It's like one of my magic tricks the VS smell totally disappeared
Amazing! Thanks for sharing Pat

Also on the subject of Pat he made me a really nice black vinyl dust cover for my Elmo ST-1200HD. He even added the ELMO name logo on the front of the cover. (Elmo would be proud) It sure beats my plastic bag I was using and his price was really reasonable for all the work he put into this project. So if anyone is interested in a custom dust cover for your projector PM Pat.
[Smile]

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted July 15, 2014 10:17 AM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Roger, What was the film called. When I read your post my brain inserted Elvis in to Hawaiian Aloha, we could have smell-o-vision [Big Grin]

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Roger Shunk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 604
From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted July 15, 2014 11:15 AM      Profile for Roger Shunk   Author's Homepage   Email Roger Shunk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah David anything is possible! The print was TV western laredo.

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Pete Richards
Master Film Handler

Posts: 302
From: Australia
Registered: Sep 2010


 - posted July 16, 2014 07:16 PM      Profile for Pete Richards   Email Pete Richards   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I used febreeze on a stinky 35mm reel of 'TOYS' that had a severe VS. I did it purely as an experiment as it was a faded odd reel anyway.
That was in march of 2013, the film still has no odour and there don't appear to be any ill effects so far. The reel was run once in April, and I ran it again this morning after reading this thread and being amazed that someone else was crazy enough to give it a go.

So, not exactly evidence that it won't wreck a film, but just over a year in and it doesn't appear to have caused any damage so far, and my shed doesn't smell like salad dressing any more.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 16, 2014 07:53 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pat and Pete...Your willingness to think Out-of-the-box is a refreshing example of serendipity. Creativity and discovery is what we need to extend the life cycle and the enjoyment we get from this hobby. "Nothing ventured...nothing gained." Thanks guys [Smile]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 21, 2014 02:05 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is interesting to learn that the smell doesn't come back after several months. That would worth further investigations.

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Dominique

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010


 - posted July 21, 2014 02:19 PM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio   Email Pasquale DAlessio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Michael. That is very kind of you. Well accepted! [Wink]

PatD

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 01, 2014 06:14 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A French lab's service : http://www.laboratoiredaems.fr/versionanglais/preservation.html

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Dominique

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 06, 2014 06:33 AM      Profile for Gary Crawford   Email Gary Crawford   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sometimes I feel that the vinegar smell of film is similar to pain in a person. The pain is telling you something is wrong with your body. The vinegar smell in film is telling you something is wrong with that film.....that the chemical decomposition is ongoing. From all I have read and heard from experts, masking the smell merely hides the fact that the film is still deteriorating. It also opens up the possibility that a person selling films could use whatever type compound to mask the smell and sell the vinegar syndrome films to unsuspecting buyers.

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Kevin Hassall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 438
From: Walsall, England
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted October 06, 2014 08:33 AM      Profile for Kevin Hassall   Author's Homepage   Email Kevin Hassall   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
doug is right pat your comments on here are a treasure to us [Razz]

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010


 - posted October 06, 2014 10:56 AM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio   Email Pasquale DAlessio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Kevin.

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted October 06, 2014 07:33 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Would be interesting to try an A-D strips test on a film that has been treated and no longer smells.

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Adrian Winchester

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Tommy Woods
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Scouser
Registered: Feb 2011


 - posted October 11, 2014 05:45 AM      Profile for Tommy Woods   Email Tommy Woods   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Feel the lurve Pat [Wink]

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Let there be light,so god created the projector

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Scot Myers
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Valdosta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2018


 - posted April 19, 2019 04:01 PM      Profile for Scot Myers   Email Scot Myers   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know this is an old thread, but has anybody else tried using Febreze to mask the vinegar odor smell? I'd like to try it but want to see if anybody has seen any ill effects.

As long as this doesn't accelerate vinegar syndrome then I'd be all for it.

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Clyde Miles
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 205
From: Bromsgrove, UK
Registered: Nov 2013


 - posted April 19, 2019 04:38 PM      Profile for Clyde Miles   Email Clyde Miles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
scot no cure for vs, don't use fabrize its water based and will destroy film

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted April 20, 2019 01:46 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pat
Don't take the criticism to heart. I also have tried a formula which I posted on here and received negative comments, but if a film is affected anything is worth a try because it is doomed anyway. Unless people try then nothing will be achieved. I love to read your posts. You have a great sense of humour, which always makes me smile and lightens up sometimes dull posts.
Please do not leave us [Confused]

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 20, 2019 10:48 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I will gladly point out that Pat kindly drops by every so often with a friendly hello.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Daniel D. Teoli Jr.
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted April 29, 2019 08:56 AM      Profile for Daniel D. Teoli Jr.   Email Daniel D. Teoli Jr.   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, that is how most forums are. Don't worry about the critics. Just do your tests and move on. Lots of anal people, esp collectors.

I will give it try but I will soak it in Fabreze and then dry it off to age after a few days. But then it has to be aged a long time to see how archival it is.

Larry Urbanski gave me some good advice. He said to air out the films for 6 months or so on a shelf. Then the smell becomes very low or goes away in some cases. Put it in a ventilated can and it should slow down the decomposition. If you can freeze, then all the better. I can't freeze, so I air out. If you can't fix VS, slow it down.

Here are a couple of posts on this subject where I did tests.

https://danieldteolijrarchivalcollection. wordpress.com/2018/11/25/test-results-for-vitafilm-treatment-of-vinegar-syndrome-16mm-films/

I also tested Filmrenew. Great for cleaning and lubrication. But nothing much for VS.

Here is something on Vaporate. I wish I knew what the formula was!

https://filmarchivedanieldteolijrarchivalcollection.wordpress.com/2018 /11/20/vaporate-film-preservation/

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