8mm Forum: Terminator 2

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Topic: Terminator 2

Paul Browning
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1006
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011

posted November 18, 2016 04:46 PM

JUST ENDED ON FLEA BAY £1550.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,SOMEONE'S BANK ACCOUNT HAS WELL AND TRULY BEEN TERMINATED.INCREDIBLE.

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005

posted November 18, 2016 04:53 PM

I saw that Paul, absolutely bonkers!!

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Elmo GS1200 1.0 lens
Elmo ST1200HD 1.1 lens
Sankyo 800 1.0 lens
Elmo 16CL
Elf NT1

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 18, 2016 04:58 PM

A print that was knackered as well from what was described!

Maybe green lines have become vogue?

Lunacy, shear lunacy???????????

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted November 18, 2016 05:10 PM

I was just about to start a thread on this myself. This print was well tramlined. If this goes through and is a genuine sale I feel quite sad really. I can't imagine the buyer still thinking this was a good deal a few months down the line.

To anyone contemplating buying this title I would say this. I own a copy of this and I purchased it on eBay within the past five years. ( If anyone is interested I'll look back and give the exact date.) I paid £280 sterling. I thought that was quite a bit. My copy has the grey stripe and the sound is low gain and mono. But okay. The print has several points where a 'bubbling' effect appears. Perhaps from the optical printer. Perhaps many prints were like this. Was there a better, earlier batch? Others may know. But I put this warning information out to potential buyers - low mono sound, will it re-record?, bubbling effect, colour okay but orangey tint. If you think that and in this case tramlines as well, is worth this price then fine, go for it...

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Paul Browning
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1006
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011

posted November 18, 2016 05:22 PM

I have this too Steve, and that grey stripe I'm sure is zonal mix, is it a French make, I'm sure someone will pipe in, but my point is this, if you look at the analogue pro reel to reel machines they use this tape, but there are different bias settings for each make and manufacturer. Is it just that whoever recorded these sound tracks didn't bother to reset there recording equipment from the norm, Agfa f5 tape mix, perhaps with a little fiddling of the bias settings of the elmo we could get a superb stereo re record ?.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 18, 2016 05:24 PM

£280 for a modern titled print even with the hit and miss grey pasted stripe is what we would expect Steven if in reasonable condition.

What we are seeing here this evening with this one,is nothing short of complete and total madness.

I've yet to find a grey pasted striped film that cannot be at the very least, improved upon even if at times it is really only on the main stripe and of course, it does have be adhered to the film well, not something that was always the case very sadly.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted November 18, 2016 05:38 PM

Yes, I hope to re-record my print in stereo at some point when I have the time. Interesting what Paul says about biasing.

On the price and value of this tramlined print just so we get some perspective, here is what else you can have from eBay at a similar price:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-ROLEX-OYSTER-6634-ROLLED-GOLD-MENS-WATCH-WITH-ORIGINAL-RIVET-BRACELET-/282257599304?hash=item41b7dd2b48:g:hB0AAOSwo4pYK~Wf

That's right, a vintage gold Rolex watch!

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 18, 2016 05:44 PM

Or the projector that Alessandro is selling that will never mark a single print if kept well in the future!

Perhaps this should have been bought first it would seem.
Then perhaps we all wouldn't be continually witnessing prints surface looking like this, most depressingly!

The GS allows separation for left and right bias adjustment I believe courtesy of Bill.
Gives great flexibility with any attempt to record these things again, tailor made to suit any particular track it would seem.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Browning
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1006
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011

posted November 18, 2016 05:49 PM

Steve its info from nagra, you could specify how it was setup to record if you told them what tape you was using to get "THE" best recording, screwing every ounce of frequency out of it. I noticed zonal was on there list of tapes preference's, now if they think its good enough for there beautifully made tape machines, its good enough for me.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted November 18, 2016 06:45 PM

I only paid £100 for my professional guage print of this feature - sold my Super 8 feature of T2 years ago for a fraction of this price and in much better condition.

It has to be said though the seller was very thorough and accurately described and pictured the print so no one can claim to have been misled.

Kevin

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Larry Arpin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 953
From: Sunland, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted November 19, 2016 01:25 PM

I bought mine brand new from Derann. It had the grey soundtrack. The picture was OK even though it had some blue bias. Later I acquired a 35mm trailer and it had similar color. When I received it the sound sounded scramble so I sent it back for re-record but was no different so I decided to send it to Lance for re-recording and it came back with fantastic sound. I kept it for awhile and decided to sell it. The only thing wrong was a birdy scratch for about 10 seconds due to the green film guide that I eventually replaced but otherwise it was a perfect print. No 'bubbling' effect. I got $700 for it which was how much I had into it plus Ebay costs.

I did inquire about this whether it had a grey or brown stripe and it had a brown stripe so this was an earlier print. I actually considered getting this but price eventually went out of my range.

I've noticed prices have gone way out of my range for both super 8mm and 16mm for titles I would like to have. So I've hardly bought any prints for awhile.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 19, 2016 01:43 PM

Did it not concern you Larry that it was in very poor shape when you were considering bidding on it?

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted November 19, 2016 03:52 PM

Steve, can i ask you to elaborate on the bubbling? is it toward the end, i bought this from Paul foster quite a few years ago and i paid somewhere around 175, i almost returned it but glad i didn't, its an excellent print with a stereo soundtrack and supplied on two large reels so i assume it was re recoreded by the previous owner.
Aside a few light black lines to the very far right mine is an excellent print however, during the last few minutes and lasting only around 50ft the picture sort of goes in and out of focus but the film print is in 100% good condition with no damage what so ever. [Wink]

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted November 19, 2016 03:52 PM

Interesting that there were earlier prints then, without the grey stripe or bubbling effect. But the tramlines would kill it for me. I just wouldn't buy a print like this latest one, by choice. I would never pay £1500 for any print either. In fact I bid £75 and went back to bid £150, what I thought it was worth. But it was already over £400...

I'll see if I can fit in a showing to myself tomorrow since we've been talking about this but from memory the bubbling was certainly at the break out from the asylum and unfortunately at a great scene where the T-1000 pushes himself through the bars. I remember one other instance too but have to check. The effect was like a bubbling or 'rippling' effect down the screen on one side. But as said, even a non-perfect print seems like a bargain now.

I think I might be more interested in the equipment than individual prints. I love having a great piece of equipment - projectors, lenses, vintage hi-fi - all in original boxes with paperwork, etc. This year I purchased a fully restored Revox B77 tape machine. But films and music are on so many formats now and easily available... I'm happy to have a 'good selection' to play on each machine.

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 19, 2016 04:45 PM

I will try asking you then Steven please, the very same question if I may..

Would you have been entirely happy paying £150 even, for a print which was admitted as being heavily scratched for the most part?

To me, I would have been reluctant to spend even £100 as I just felt I simply wouldn't gain an awful lot of pleasure from screening any print where the majority of it is damaged in one regard or another.

I understand we all have to have a little tolerance to the odd scratch here or there now, but I've also said recently, surely we don't all have to accept this as being the norm as many of us know it isn't for non commercially ran S8 prints.
Or at least ought not to be!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted November 19, 2016 10:43 PM

Okay, I ran my print that I paid £280 for a few years ago. I very much enjoyed it. Such a great film.

I mis-remembered the 'bubbling' thing. Senior moment I guess and I believe it is my print of ALIENS that I got at the same time that has that. Have to check it soon. Wow, so many prints I don't know what I have got.

The Derann print of TERMINATOR 2 that I have is generally very good picture quality with good definition and it stayed in focus right across the scope screen. A blue tint is noticeable in the night scenes particularly. Almost looks like the old Day-For-Night technique. Day scenes can be a bit orangey with the flesh tones. The second half of part 2 during the escape from the asylum is where the 'printed in' marks are and they are dark smudges and spots in the upper centre of the screen. Similar but lesser spots and marks appear a bit later here and there in parts 3 and 4. These are stable as if on the lens. There are a certain amount of white negative scratches at beginnings of parts. I guess I'm listening to the original Derann sound which is a bit muddy and part 3 is much lower gain and part 5 also. Other parts not so bad.

The condition of my print is excellent. No tramlines and only a hairline on the right during later parts 4 and 5. No splices in the body of the parts. Good perforations. Sounds like I'm trying to sell it but I am not really, just putting out the information for anyone who is looking for a print.

Andrew, would I pay £150 for a tramlined print. I might. The same seller sold the first TERMINATOR as well and I believe it was in the £600s? It was also scratched. I'd have paid £150 for that. If anyone has a print of ALIEN full length with tramlines I'd be interested at that sort of price. So I guess some of the most desirable titles I would consider a problem print but at a knock-down price...

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Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Larry Arpin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 953
From: Sunland, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted November 20, 2016 01:36 AM

Yes Andrew I would pay about the same as Steven especially since it had a brown stripe.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 20, 2016 03:35 AM

Thanks gentlemen, I was merely finding out where people's tolerance levels stand towards heavily scarred prints due to emulsion scratches.

I perhaps should have asked, would you be looking towards prints like these purely as back up for those who already have the exact same title?

If there is a section of the film which is known to be flawless and on mine is damaged from when I got it, then I too would pay,£150 for the full damaged feature to piece up to my existing otherwise flawless one.

However, if this would be my only copy of the film or if the entire film contains damage (not negative) from running the print, then £150 to my mind, is simply too much to pay.

[ November 20, 2016, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted November 20, 2016 09:07 AM

I have just checked m,y own print, whilst i am here i'd like to say a belated thank you to Andrew for the 1600ft spool for this movie. I have finally got around to getting it changed over. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!
Those metal supaspool reels are so dam noisy as they reached the last 50/100 ft or so. This is a great improvement.
Although the images dont show the colours too well mine does appear to me to be the pre striped light brown sound track and i was fortunate to receive this one in stereo. Am i right in saying it only came originally with mono? I seem to recall this from the original review. Either way that opening music with the cars on the motorway, or should i say freeway really belts out via my old pioneer stereo amp.

BTW, if i was offered Die hard for a 100 with green lines in the centre right i couldn't take it, the whole enjoyment of viewing it would be lost, they become the point of focus for your eyes, aside that i couldn't have an audience as i dont think anyone would ever think good of cine film again if i presented that. [Wink]

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted November 20, 2016 09:25 AM

Beyond silly, and as we`ve said before no good for the hobby at all.

I`d rather watch the Blu Ray than pay £40/£50 for it myself.

I thought I went a bit over the top paying £15 for a Hateful 8 Blu Ray steelbook delivered for £15 !!!

There are loads of these prints about as well as sold well in under the counter fashion.

Wonder what they would pay for my LPP 16mm trailer !!!!

I`ll pop that on tonight.

I`ll probably never own a super 8 feature again myself but you can`t beat the shorts etc.

Best Mark.

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted November 20, 2016 09:33 AM

Tom for me too green lines in the centre of the image
is a complete NO !!!
I can barely tolerate black ones.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted November 20, 2016 09:44 AM

Very true, i'm getting that way to but unfortunately many of our collection was purchased second hand so often suffered with a few minor black lines, if there to far left or right its easy to simply zoom up a bit to hide them, my Brother, unlike me, never seems bothered by them. In fact he makes me laugh, we can be watching a newly acquired film them i kick off, usually with "ah shit a black line", he'l say "where", i'll point out the minuscule of lines and he'l say something like, "i never saw that till you pointed it out, why dont you just enjoy the film and then you dont notice it".
I think he should have gone to specsavers! [Big Grin]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 20, 2016 11:21 AM

Black lines Tom, no bother with FG.
Green ones....good night Vienna!

I am glad your reel worked out as I'd hoped for you btw.
Had to be better mate, no contest! [Wink]

You're stripe, I'm certain, is pre laminated brown stripe on that one there Tom so happy days buddy! [Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dave Groves
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 508
From: Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
Registered: Feb 2015

posted November 20, 2016 11:37 AM

The thing that bothers me is that this isn't an isolated case. Too often films are going for silly money pricing the genuine collector completely out of the frame.

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Dave

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted November 20, 2016 12:19 PM

That is a problem Dave, i just cant and wont pay those sort of prices, i think 200-300 for any film is more than enough, & thats for a top title. (3 or 4 600s or less) some film like independence day thats 6 x 600 of course would be worth more.
I fully understand the supply & demand but there comes a time when the price just out-ways its worth.
My guessing is there may also be some nutters out there who are just collecting them simply because they are cine films and they think it's trendy to have what they call "old analogue stuff".
A work mate of mine was reading about this strange thing that people do. Little do they know how popular it still is.
At these prices it will definatly put a lot of real collectors off. Well done that seller though.
One thing i do hate though is when some dickhead bids on something and then wants to return it because theirs something wrong with it.
At the end of this day this was one of the most honest listings i have read, it started low so surely you only bid what you want to pay for it no matter whats wrong with it, the book stops with the end bidder surely.
As i have said before, if you have an unlimited money supply and you want it then the sky's the limit. [Wink]

Fortunately i have this title and i only paid a normal price at the time, i'll hang onto it for as long as i can.

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