8mm Forum: Sound Effects on Blackhawk Chaplins: Is this Standard?

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Topic: Sound Effects on Blackhawk Chaplins: Is this Standard?

Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted August 14, 2010 11:41 AM

Hi All,

I got a Blackhawk S-8 copy of Chaplin's "The Count" and while the film is beautiful and mint and the score on the track fits pretty well, the sound effects added are quite annoying. Clumsy and loud, they distract from the film.

Since this is my first "Sound/Silent" of Chaplins from Blackhawk, could someone please educate me a bit here:
Was it standard practice with Blackhawk's scored silents to add sound effects, or was it just certain series of them?
If they do differ, what should one look for to ID the ones with just music (if at all possible)?

Most likely at some point I will record new music on the track to get rid of the effects; I am curious about this music/effects issue, though.

Thanks,
Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 14, 2010 04:06 PM

Claus,

I have a couple of "silent" Laurel and Hardies with a sound track. None of them is music only.

One that actually works pretty well is "You're Darn Tootin!", because it's about musicians, after all. (You'd almost think they'd say "Let's hold off on this one until we have sound". It's like a black and white film about a painter!)

The only thing that bothers me about them is they seemed to recycle music among them, so you can't show several together.

The thing to look for if you don't want a scored silent is the "880" prefix on the Blackhawk stock code, that means Super-8 Sound.

I'm not sure if it's really a bad thing or not. Back in the day silents were usually screened theatrically with an accompanist on a piano or an organ and very often kind of a primitive Foley artist making the bangs and bonks and toots to go along with the action. This may be a more realistic way of experiencing these films than the "860" versions, and probably what Blackhawk intended.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 14, 2010 04:50 PM

Claus,

There are recording studio downloads that allow you remove selected sounds from a recording. In the studio software program, you identify the noise or sound and tell the program to remove it. Recently I made a multitrack recording where a ghost noise from a drum machine was sneaking into a couple of tracks. I identified the noise and told the program to remove it and volla', it was gone. Funny thing was, after that I couldn't find my dog Skippy for three days. [Big Grin]

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Yanis Tzortzis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 531
From: Greece
Registered: Aug 2005

posted August 14, 2010 05:35 PM

.....did Blackhawk not have the Van Beuren scores in their releases? I don't have any Blackhawk Chaplin music track films but thought they were quite successful!?

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Yannis

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted August 14, 2010 06:58 PM

Steve,

I appreciate the answers; I am familiar with silents being accompanied live and the history of it, and for me it was just more of the "too much, too loud" thing on this film, or if the option was to have music-only prints that might be floating around. Good to know about the 880/860.

Dan.
Didn't know you were a musician. I dabble in it, so I am familiar with 'sampling' software that takes out sounds, but with the noises being right on top of the music, the amplitude of it would kill the track too, at the volume it's at.

The film cost very little and looks like it's been run twice, so I am truly not complaining. Who could hate Charlie, Edna and Eric Campbell together? [Razz]

Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Tony Stucchio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 625
From: New Jersey
Registered: Dec 2005

posted August 14, 2010 07:55 PM

That's correct, Yanis -- the Blackhawk Chaplin Mutuals have the Van Beuren soundtracks. Even David Shepard admitted in 1975 that the sound effects were overdone by "today's" (read 1975) standards -- and they aren't much better 35 years later. They were created in the 1930s.

Now I think that when Blackhawk added music and effects they were much better, but as Steve said the music is similar across several titles. The tracks for BIG BUSINESS and TWO TARS, however, are almost completely different.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 14, 2010 09:10 PM

My "Two Tars" is tracked, and the music is a lot like "You're Darned Tootin!"

My "Big Business" is silent.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Yanis Tzortzis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 531
From: Greece
Registered: Aug 2005

posted August 15, 2010 05:53 PM

......I would think so myself Tony-my prints of 'Big Business' & '2 Tars' have different tracks;my 'Darn Tootin's silent...
....can get worse with Chaplin's prints though;3 yrs ago I bought off eBay Germany a 'Shoulder arms' full print with a ridiculous track: even childrens'laughters were recorded !

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Yannis

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 16, 2010 02:43 PM

Yeah..those were Van B. versions....and they are over done HOWEVER...I have to say that in one of my Library showings a couple of years ago, I ran one of the Marx Brothers films...can't remember which..and then as a short, Chaplin's The Pawnshop. To my surprise and amazement...Pawnshop received huge laughs....even applause at the end of this Van. B. short. The audience ranged from 11 year olds to 50 plus. Many had never seen a Chaplin film ....at all..ever. They were enthralled abouit it..and not once mentioned the effects or music. so I just don't know...to each his own. The van b. people werer preparing these films very early in the sound era...and it's not like they had a lot of pre-recorded sound effects to use...no sound libraries .....and they had to do it the best way they coud..with cartoon like sound

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 16, 2010 05:30 PM

As a long-time owner of the set, these have a sense-memory recall, watching them on WNET-13, later the Chaplin Theatre hosted by the late Herb Graff on WOR-9, but it was the initial showings on 13, also when WOR-9 ran a Chaplin Festival, comprising of 4 Mutuals; The music/effects and overall nostalgia of the shorts created an appreciation for this youngster, and I always strived to seek out these films, for the sheer pleasure of just hearing the scored and effects tracks, which gave me pleasure so long ago - Shorty

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