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Author Topic: B&H Filmosonic Scraching prints
Manuel Tapia
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Monterrey, mexico
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 13, 2012 12:49 AM      Profile for Manuel Tapia   Email Manuel Tapia   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello buddies Me again [Roll Eyes]

Yesterday with my lens cleaned, we had film session and now i could noted some lines in the screen, I check the film and i think is my projector because the film are from different providers and 1 was sealed, the scratch in the middle is just in the emulsion Side, the one in the right side could be in both side.

I check the porjector part where the film could be scratched.

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THE RIGHT SIDE LINE
I think the line in the right side could be caused by the audio head and his tensioner [POINT 4], isn't it ? i think is in the tensioner, do you know is it possible to adjust ?

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THE MIDDLE LINES
First the term gate you used for the part where the film is alinged to the lens, isn't it ?

These line i think could be in the "GATE" [POINT 3], because 1 line is not continue so should be when the film jump to the gate isn't it ?
I was thinking that maybe the [POINT 2] Could be the guilty but when is running looks liek is not hitting there
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I have some question
1.- It is a film to clean the projector something similar to a TAPE Cleaner.?
2.- It is some colored film that can help to find the scratching part ? i don't know some film that colored where is scratching

Thanks you for any idea or comment that could help me to find where is scratching my films.

This new hobby is to complicated i should return to the Laser Disc, DVD and Bulray [Big Grin] , just joking i having very good and funy time wiht this hobby and my kids love it !!!

Thanks Again !!

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 13, 2012 05:31 AM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Manuel, Sorry to say the B&H Filmosonic super 8 projectors are known to scratch films. I bought one brand new in 1975, and I couldn't find any way to correct this problem. I ended up trading it in, and moved on to different makes [Frown]

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Joe Taffis

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted September 13, 2012 10:01 AM      Profile for Joe Balitzki   Email Joe Balitzki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had the same experience as Joe. I bought a Filmosonic Brand New from Sears with their name on it. Trying to clean some sections was difficult and/or impossible. The end result was that it caused Emulsion side scratches on some of my prints. I started the Hobby with a Silent Bell & Howell which was easier to clean. But there were still some areas that couldn't be reached. I thought I could trust the Brand when I purchased my 1st Sound Projector. I also traded mine in because the new prints I had bought years ago were very expensive and became scratched. I bought myself a Elmo projector which at the time was one of the best on the market. I still have it and 2 other Elmo models as well. They are kind to film and easy to clean. The only practical solution to your problem is to buy another projector.

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Movie Lovers Do It in the Dark

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted September 13, 2012 01:27 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Those "Filmo-sonics" tended to not bee too kind to film, that's for sure.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Tony Stucchio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 625
From: New Jersey
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted September 13, 2012 07:42 PM      Profile for Tony Stucchio   Email Tony Stucchio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Elmos tend to scratch films as well when one of the lower green film guides becomes worn.

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted September 13, 2012 09:49 PM      Profile for Joe Balitzki   Email Joe Balitzki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
True. All projectors must be periodically checked for wear.

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Movie Lovers Do It in the Dark

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Manuel Tapia
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Monterrey, mexico
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 13, 2012 10:34 PM      Profile for Manuel Tapia   Email Manuel Tapia   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
After all, seem like the projector is not scratching at all.

Cause i didn't find a Scratcher Detector film i made my own using a White Shoes Scuff cover in a film that isn't to importan for me and was just in the begin of the film. then i run it just a few inches, i could find where was scratching the film, fortunately wasn't in the gate or audio head. i could note was in the first curve but is just when is in loading position, when you change to play possition, the film run smooth. that is the reason that all my print have this scratch, but is just in the begining of the film not in all the film, so the film was already scratched or maybe i scratch because i never clean the projector, i just start using after i recived, so maybe was alot of grit that could scratch the film.

I just order a film guard, to clean the film and lubricate. i read that could help to eliminate or reduce the scratch and i think could help to avoid posible scratch because the film is lubricated.

So i'll not run new film until i can be sure that the projector is not scratching or until i find a new one, any way i want to fix this even for sale, i don't film good selling something that i now is not working propertly.

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Stephen Iddon
Junior
Posts: 6
From: Preston
Registered: Mar 2010


 - posted September 14, 2012 07:26 AM      Profile for Stephen Iddon   Email Stephen Iddon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Afternoon guys,
CAn I just let you know, that I bought one of these projectors from Barry, Independent 8 and this machine has been very good,e asy to clean throughout and has never scratched a film.

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 14, 2012 09:40 AM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll stand by what I stated earlier [Wink]

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Joe Taffis

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 14, 2012 10:03 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I notice that B&H were made in several countries, i.e Japan, Canada and USA.

So perhaps the one in UK was made in Japan that can run smooth to film.

Anyway, since Manuel is in Mexico, I am afraid this is one made in USA and scratch....

Manuel, don't feel down if you have to put the B&H aside for a Japanese machine because although B&H is not a good machine, it is good for display purposes compared to those from Japan.

In terms of display purposes, I also like Bolex and Heurtier (make scratch even worst than B&H).

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Winbert

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted September 14, 2012 10:08 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Manuel,just to give you a little peace of mind, give your projector
a thorough clean,you can use Methylated Spirit, or rubbing
alcohol as it's known over there.Making sure that the soundheads get a wipe,use a brush to get rid of any loose debris in the film path.A piece of very thin wood with a lens tissue damped in
alcohol is useful for getting into enclosed parts of the film path.
When you are satisfied that the path is clean,run a short piece of
scrap leader, black is best for showing any marks.You can easily
make it into a loop by splicing both ends together.Then let it
run a while to check if your machine is still scratching.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 14, 2012 10:39 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think a lot of the Bell& Howell projectors started scratching when they incorporated the auto -threading. I had a B&H 625 auto threader that scratched every film I put through it. Earlier 8mm designs such as the Bell& Howell 606h were manual threaders, built like Rolls Royce's, and would never scratch a single frame of film. For standard 8 I now use a manual thread Bolex 18-5, which is a great performer and supremely kind to film.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted September 14, 2012 01:07 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, you go to the top of the class,that is exacly the problem
with these machines,if all the projectors in the past were manual thread,then we wouldn't have the amount of damaged film we see today.The manufacturers obviously thought the average person
wouldn't be able to thread a projector, I would have suggested to them to watch the average female threading a sewing machine
in the day,in a matter of seconds the job was done.

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted September 14, 2012 06:48 PM      Profile for Joe Balitzki   Email Joe Balitzki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For what its worth: I endeavored to clean my Filmosonic but the auto threading parts made areas inaccessible. I have no doubt that is why it scratched prints. When I started looking for another projector I read a lot of reviews. If a machine was easy to clean it was noted in the review.

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Movie Lovers Do It in the Dark

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Manuel Tapia
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Monterrey, mexico
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 19, 2012 10:57 AM      Profile for Manuel Tapia   Email Manuel Tapia   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
After an exhaustive cleaning and made some test, the project is not scratching the film, I think the problem was grit left by a film that was too dirty, like some kind of salts. I just order the Film Guard.

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So now with the projector clean and with the new halogen lamp the films looks great!!

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