8mm Forum: How does 16mm Survive?

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Topic: How does 16mm Survive?

Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 17, 2007 08:32 AM

In Super 8 we have new releases coming out sporadically - not much but we at least have new films coming out here and there.
With 16mm....there are no new releases so is that format doomed to slowly widdle away? Just curious...

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 17, 2007 09:30 AM

Well, 16mm has been the mainstay since 1923?, probably earlier - There simply isn't anymore prints being struck, and the last from the Blackhawk lab is just about or is, completed - What there is, there is, unless someone acquires rights and license to re-release - Super 8 seems to lead the path and some 16 collectors even have this format in their collections - If I'm wrong on any of this, I'm eager to know more - Shorty

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted October 18, 2007 04:21 AM

Considering the amount of ripping off in 16mm its hard to see why people stay with it. Its just one long catologue of people being sold crap continually etc Only the seriously lucky seem to usually get away with it.
With film its all about compulsion, if it didn`t have that element it would have died already, even has people going back to buy off people they know are shysters and even ripped them off before, even more than once, for a film they love just on the odd chance it my be ok and they strangely must have it.
I stand in shops umming and ahhing over spending £1.99 but when a film list goes up online or comes through the door all hell lets loose!!! Why???
I think much super 8 at close qauters in the home actually looks better in many ways to 16mm really myself, usually Derann or CHC gear of course.
Best Mark.

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 963
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted October 18, 2007 05:36 AM

I have bought several brand new 16mm prints in the last year or so. They have been from the old Blackhawk catalogue. Whilst there are excellent Super 8 prints available, on average 16mm is a higher quality format.

The wide range of film available will see it go on for a long time and if it's features you are into, 16mm is really the go on film. To be honest I don't think I could tell you if I had more 16mm than Super 8, probably a little more on Super 8 if I had to guess.

If I am after a film I will grab it on any format and that includes Std 8, 9.5 35mm and 70mm.

David

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Paul Spinks
Master Film Handler

Posts: 453
From: Barking, Essex, UK
Registered: Mar 2006

posted October 18, 2007 09:19 AM

I have loads of 16mm features which are mainly old Universal and 'B' movie horror titles in black and white. Generally the quality is far superior to the Super 8 offerings from Niles and Mountain. I try and avoid colour as the prints have invariably faded.The only real problem is the space that the films and the projectors take up. Super 8 collecting is so much easier,and you do have the added advantage of being able to re record the soundtrack which you cannot do with the 16mm optical sound prints. The later Super 8 prints from Derann and CHC look as good and are occasionally better than 16mm.

Paul.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 18, 2007 09:55 AM

There are a number of recent films that have been made available for rental on 16mm (See post ). There may be very few releases for the home market (CHC occasionally puts out a few) but new prints are being struck.
I collect both formats since there's so much out there on 16mm, and as much as I love that little 8mm frame, the quality of the projected 16mm image is (of course) superior. A top quality Super 8mm print (e.g. Derann's recent "End of Days") will blow away its fair 16mm counterpart, but a fine grain, great color 16mm print is just a thing of beauty.
Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004

posted October 18, 2007 10:19 AM

Now I've got three absolutely stunning 16mm Ampro projectors, I can't bear the thought of its demise in any shape or form.

Maybe, at the end of the day, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It has been my experience that 16mm is by far the best quality, - sound included, - with std 8 next and, strangely enough, super 8 coming in third!?!? [Confused]

Perhaps my first visit to the BFCC this year will change all that. [Roll Eyes]

Can't wait!

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Dave.

Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted October 19, 2007 04:32 PM

What we also tend to forget is that a lot of the smaller movie theaters, (not the big multiplexes), tend to use very fine 16mm prints. I visited one in Portland when i was back in college just two years ago, and i was happy to see that it was 16mm.

It was blown up just a little too big, but it still looked just fine.

If it wasn't for the cost, i wouldn't mind buying 16mm. From what I've seen, good 16mm projectors seem to be more plentiful than truly good Super 8mm projectors on the market.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Jeff Taylor
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Chatham, NJ
Registered: Aug 2005

posted October 25, 2007 02:46 PM

...and don't forget that Super 16 sees a good deal of use in television production and some low budget films. Specifically, in the US all of the "Law & Order" variants originate on Super 16 shot with Panaflexes. For non-theatrical venues it's still FAR more costly to get a video projector that comes anywhere close to the quality of 16mm with xenon and good optics, so that market may drag on a bit yet.

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Jeff

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted October 25, 2007 03:32 PM

If I do get my right to produce as well as direct my two apocolyptic sci-fi films, (which i also wrote), I want to do them on Super 16 as it does have more grain to it than 35MM and, as stated above, the image quality is quite superior and equals, in some ways 35MM, (given the right photographer).

I like the grain, as both sci-fi films need to have a documentary look to them. they are very realistic portrayals
and part of the success will be putting the audience in a real environment.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Dan Pinto
Film Handler

Posts: 32
From: Brooklyn
Registered: Jun 2006

posted October 25, 2007 09:06 PM

Hi,

The New York Public Library website lists many 16mm prints for rental, but not for the average Joe, natch....

Many are fairly recent releases.

I've asked how I can gain entry to the castle, but all I got was the runaround.

Danny

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If you stew cranberries like applesauce, it tastes much more like prunes than rhubarb does!

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Eberhard Nuffer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 141
From: Stuttgart, Germany
Registered: Jul 2005

posted October 26, 2007 07:59 PM

In another forum, it was stated that in Swank's 2007 catalogue 16mm prints of recent releases like "Bridge to Terabithia", "Dreamgirls", "Happy Feet", "The Astronaut Farmer" and "Monster House" were listed for rental.
And there are still new 16mm prints struck for collectors: The CGI scope cartoon "One Man Band" for example we were talking about in the Super 8 review section, is available in 16mm als well.

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