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Author Topic: Video Projectors
Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted January 10, 2009 03:10 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The last couple of nights the video projectors have been getting a bit of use "back to film tomorrow" The first VP I bought back in 1998 Sanyo PLC-250P second hand and apart from a change of lamp and a LCD panel clean this old thing keeps going now 12 years old I only use it for 4:3 image still looks fine for those old B/W films providing you dont sit to close.

Comparing it with the Panasonic PT-AX200E things have certainly moved on from those early days, for me Blu-Ray is still yet to come, however the image from this projector now connected to a Pioneer DVD Recorder DVR-660H and still using component out has been very impressive.
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The old Sanyo, in their day quite expensive now not worth anything...such is the life of a video projector.
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The General.. the image still OK but at a distance.
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The Panasonic with its swing shutter complete with fishing line and weight, for the smooth transition from film to video...no on screen give away its video in this home cinema.
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took those photos today hand held digital camera "photos have not been altered" "South Pacific" I watch this movie every so often, 9 foot wide picture camera on zoom about 15 feet away.
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It will be a while before I make the move to Blu-Ray at the moment very happy with what I have got. However I still have more fun running the old film projectors and would never get rid of them, its been about 4 months now since we had a visit from our young 15 year old cinema projectionist and his family, he made a bee-line for that 80 year old Ernemann 35mm and ran it that night, he went straight pass the video projectors as if they were not there....zero interest in those things [Wink]

Graham. [Smile]

[ January 10, 2009, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Graham Ritchie ]

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008


 - posted January 10, 2009 09:06 AM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You are getting excellent results. I don't have a copy of South Pacific yet on Blu-ray though I'm sure it will be out at some point. The Blu-ray brings out the quality if it is there. 'The Searchers' is awesome, originally VistaVision. I also am equipping myself with enough gear and spares to keep 16 and Super 8 going as long as possible too.

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted January 10, 2009 12:03 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham ...

Nice photo's! You know, it's funny, but my "Sharp" projection TV, about as old as your model, still looks great on the big screen. better with the laserdiscs i have found. It's curious.

I think perhaps, (and Kevin F. can back me up on this), each frame of the laserdisc captures all the original grain to the film print used, an so, (in my slightly informed opinion) the real grain to the film print actually "masks" some of the line of resoluttion problems, which, for some reason are slightly more apparent with DVD.

It's a good thing those lamps last a long damn. They cost 250.00 bloody dollars! (at least, the last time I bought one!)

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 10, 2009 12:45 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Graham,
I think that swing shutter is a great idea - I will have to implement one for my set up.
Like you, I am very happy with my 720p Panasonic using standard DVD's and am in no hurry to jump into Blue Ray Disc. This is not because I do not like 1080p high definition, but soley due to the fact that, so far, there only a few of the great classic films available, with most BD releases being forgettable modern films which are just not worth collecting. I feel that the crown jewels of the movie studios are almost exclusively to be found on standard DVD, and BD presently has very little to offer the serious film collector.
One thing I find most heartening, is that many 'reel' film collectors like yourself have found that the joys of mechanical film projection are not diminished at all by having a video projector. Personally, my enjoyment of my film equipment has if anything increased since aquiring a video projector. I am sure there are a lot of collectors out there who now deeply regret dumping all their films and film equipment when they got into video projection.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted January 10, 2009 01:03 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steven
I found the Panasonic quick and easy to set up and adjusted the settings to Cinema 1 Eco-mode with the Colour temp control to -2. This is the setting I went to from reading the excellent review on this projector from www.projectorreviews.com. Last month I needed to buy a new DVD player the old one packed up so went for a Pioneer DVD Recorder "more useful at this stage" instead of making the move to Blu-ray, but look forward to including it in the near future.

Osi
The lamps are very expensive $$$$ when the old Sanyo gives up on its present one thats it for the projector, not worth the cost of replacement.

Thanks Paul
Its a shame that many have given up on film for video its really a big mistake and one that people wont realize until its to late, at present I am an on holiday [Smile] and our 15 year old projectionist is working a few long 13 hour days running the projectors and really enjoying it [Smile] his mum brings him tea in the projection room at night. One day it will all be gone but the memories of his time projecting films wont, for many of us there is a certain amount of magic with film projectors that cannot be replaced by digital means.

Graham.

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Patrick Walsh
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 723
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Registered: Jul 2006


 - posted January 10, 2009 05:53 PM      Profile for Patrick Walsh   Email Patrick Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Graham
the SOUTH PACIFIC pictures looks good!
I agree about the magic with film projectors also with the cinema itself, I had some people come up to me and say that the only reason they come to my cinema is because I have curtains over the screen!,when one goes into a multiplex there are no curtains or drapes at all! just mirrors and glass and everything is painted black and silver I think people are steering away from that look, one just needs to see some home cinemas and how grand they look to see that the picture palace is still in vogue.
Pat [Wink]

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"Raise The Titanic!", It would of been cheaper to lower the Atlantic!

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008


 - posted January 10, 2009 06:27 PM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham,

I use cinema 1 and have taken the colour down a bit and I took the temp to a slight 'brown' rather than 'blue'. I have a B/W setting also on the memory presets. One of my test DVDs is the film STIR OF ECHOES which has a lot of nice 'natural' photography, people and trees, etc, and nice 'long duration shots'. I can't believe it when you go to a shop for a demo and all they want to show is CGI stuff, how are you supposed to know what monsters from other planets look like, anyway? My AE2000E I purchased after reading the website you mention. I even sent the guy an e-mail thanking him for helping me make a decision, he even replied!

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted January 11, 2009 04:59 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, as most of the times, I'm with you on this. Since the arrival of the VP, the film activity has also increased here. Actually, over the last two years, we've used our film projectors more than our VP.

Funny how things change. 5 years ago, Paul and I (both early Panny owners) were heralding the fact that VP and film projectors could co-exist in a home cinema. I even posted some screenshots taken at my home and the quality was such that some members reacted by saying that pictures had been tweaked and doctored... Oh well... [Big Grin]

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 11, 2009 09:12 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham, all this video projector talk is making me very depressed! My 8 month old HD projector went faulty just before Christmas; in-fact the courier collected it for return on 24th December [Roll Eyes]

I had just bought a Blu-Ray player and everything! Can't blame the manufacturer for speed of service but it still isn't back and I have a stack of Blu-Ray discs to watch that I got for Christmas. Boo [Frown] [Frown] [Frown]

Seriously though, Blu-Ray on a 1080p projector is like watching a really great 16mm print; a dream come true for film collectors (should that read film viewers???)...let's hope Blu-Ray survives!

Will never, ever give up my super 8 collection though...I mean what else do you watch when your new video projector is away being fixed!!!

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Christopher P Quinn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 210
From: Bedfordshire
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted January 11, 2009 07:56 PM      Profile for Christopher P Quinn   Email Christopher P Quinn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I got three years cover on my new VP, wont get caught out again. Blu Ray rocks! But DVD i think will be here for a long time yet.

Chris.

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Chris Quinn Rides again.

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted January 11, 2009 11:40 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steven
I bought mine after reading his review and to be honest I could not believe the photos he posted, they looked to good, as it turned out he was spot on and very happy with the results.

Rob
Hope you get your projector back soon its good you still have your film projectors, years ago I was invited to a film evening quite a few had turned up, well the video projector he was using developed a problem so he had to give up on it that night. The down side was he had sold of most of his films and projectors only one Super8 machine and home movies were left he had no back up and was embarrassed that he had been caught out, nothing to show.

Pat
I agree the modern multi-plex is as much fun to visit as a departure lounge at an airport [Wink] Cinemas need to improve their image, this includes managers and projectionists as well, to many dont seem to care or seem interested in their customers. In our case with more and more organized projection room tours we seem to be moving away from that. I now leave that side to our junior projectionist [Cool] "big hit with the ladies" [Smile] its getting to know the customers, after all they are the ones paying our wages, presentation is what its all about lights, curtains, and having genuinely friendly staff.

Graham. [Smile]

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Christopher P Quinn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 210
From: Bedfordshire
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted January 12, 2009 09:23 AM      Profile for Christopher P Quinn   Email Christopher P Quinn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is my new Epson 680 with 1600 lumens it fair nearly burns a hole in the wall on full lamp, lol. Colours are great and it came with 3 years warranty. A must after the Panny fiasco. Its 720P and i am more than happy with the Blu Ray results. Hopefully after the 3 years i will upgrade to full 1080P, but at the moment I’m happy, especially as it gives far better results when watching my B&W movies, and is a lot sharper than the Panny.
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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted November 25, 2009 07:47 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve
If you happen to be are reading this, check out the web-site from the Jan10th reply its an excellent review of the PT-AX200E and those photos he posted are spot on, best of luck in picking a projector.

Graham. [Smile]

PS I think the model that Thomas does mention in your topic the PT-AX200U is the same just the american version I agree with his comments they are spot on.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 25, 2009 10:38 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Graham,

We've decided to push off buying a VP a little while, but instead I am getting an Elmo ST-1200 in nice shape.

Had I bought now, it was going to be the Panasonic.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 26, 2009 11:55 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Regular DVDs come nowhere close to the resolution of the original films. What you are being fooled by is called edge enhancement. Once you see it, it will annoy you, so if you don't want to be annoyed by your DVDs, don't follow this link.

Older page from 2001, back when edge enhancement was just getting started.

That isn't the best page in the world, but a quick search of google didn't turn up a quick and easy read with good examples.

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006


 - posted November 26, 2009 01:24 PM      Profile for Claus Harding   Email Claus Harding   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As Brad says,

The whole idea of 'sharpening' is unfortunately still with us, even in some of the more misbegotten Blu-Ray re-masters, seemingly driven by the idea that "High Resolution" translates into "Looking like Video."
I have shot video for 20 years at the broadcast level, and even with regular definition US video (when looking at broadcast original material) you don't need to 'jack up' the edges to have a pleasing, textured image. With HiDef, much less so.

People are so conditioned by reality TV and similar, to the point that when they are faced with a good 35mm image with its 'sharp without looking edgy' beauty, they don't understand or like it.
It isn't....sharp enough. [Eek!] despite the oodles of resolution on display, which would still blow away most HiDef efforts without any problem.
So, we get the ugly cranked-up displays at the stores, and people hammering the sharpness settings on their sets at home, and thinking that looks 'good.' [Frown]

Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted November 26, 2009 05:13 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have 2 VP,s and with DVDs on one you can see the edge enhancements, but on the better Philips you can`t for some reason, even though sharp yet nice and filmie too picture wise and it really cleans up dvds as well, look better 5 feet wide than on the TV, really !!!!
For me watching fims on VP has moved me beyond film now for features etc not least as if you want good stuff on film you need to pay a lot out and can still be hit badly.

I still love and buy film but for me its the odd short and trailers on the whole.

Glad to see you got the 680 Chris, I have been seriously condsidering finance to get one of those myself, can`t beat the 3 year gaurantee and I like the sharpness as no pixel fiddling on those.
How many actual dots is it please ?
Best Mark.

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Christopher P Quinn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 210
From: Bedfordshire
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted November 28, 2009 11:00 AM      Profile for Christopher P Quinn   Email Christopher P Quinn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mark,

The TW680 Epson is 1280 x 720 pixels.

As far as edge enhancement is concerned, not something that has bothered me, I’ll have to admit. I won’t go out of my way to look for it though as I don’t want to spoil my viewing. Blu-Ray is better I believe, with most releases not having EE. The resolution of DVD’s is not anywhere near 16mm or 35mm, trying to work out who said it was.

Its great fun watching all the latest films and old classic’s on the Epson.
Great fun.

Chris.

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Chris Quinn Rides again.

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