This is topic Sanity clause. in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.
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Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 07, 2017, 08:39 AM:
Can someone please explain to me why some collectors are
willing to part with large sums of cash in order to buy what
i consider to be 'run of the mill' commercial fodder Hollywood films ?
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 07, 2017, 09:32 AM:
Such as David?
I think the words "I Consider" here may answer your own question though.
Titles would be nice though on this one please David, so we can compare the opinions of yourself with the opinions of the masses.
Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on March 07, 2017, 09:44 AM:
I love the Marx brothers, but unfortuanetely I do NOT own one film of theirs but would love any of them(as an example).
Reason i have none currently is i can't find any reasonably priced, ie. I am not "willing to part with large sums of cash in order to buy what i consider to be 'run of the mill' commercial fodder Hollywood films"
I agree with David. Many things are just too overpriced, nevermind shipping if you find one not so bad.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 07, 2017, 09:55 AM:
It's just the same as any other hobby Mathew, it very much depends at what level you want to be involved in it at.
I have mates at work that spend in excess of seven grand per annum to pursue golf, just because they insist on exclusive club membership to some of the "better" courses in the NW region.
Not something I would ever do, but they like golf.
Really like golf!
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 07, 2017, 11:46 AM:
You should luck out, sooner or later, Mathew ...
"A Night in Casablanca" comes up quite often. it is a slightly edited feature (4X400), but all that is edited out is the always irritating love scenes between the unecessary love interests, (non marx actors0, so, it's a winner. Even "Love Happy" pops up occasionally (I'd skip it)
AHHHH! But the "Holy Grail" print of the Marx Brothers DOES pop up every once in a blue moon. There was a very small print run of the full feature of "Duck Soup", and it is a very nice find if you can get ahold of it!
Another really neat "Marx" fins is a reel that the "Reel Image" (not Steve Osbournes firm), put out, which was a "coming attractions' reel for the film "Monkey Business" which was actually lifted from the Mark Brothers stage play "I'll Say She Is", which is actually used in a different variation is Monkey Business (the whole business of impersonating Maurice Chevalier), and while it has a poor focus to it, for the Marx collector, it's a must!
Posted by Mathew James (Member # 4581) on March 07, 2017, 12:50 PM:
The holy grail for me in this regard would be the actual 'sanity clause' film itself: a full version on super 8 of Night At the Opera. Now if this was available, i would be quite happy..but again, i don't want to pay a fortune.This one is not commercial fodder to me but all my Laurel and Hardy's, some of which i paid $8 for a couple years ago, are now on ebay at 60$+. These may be considered fodder
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 07, 2017, 02:35 PM:
Thanks for the replies guys.
Here are some titles I consider Hollywood fodder and very overated and bored the hell out of me ...
Close Encounters Of The Third Kind.
Back To The Future.
Romancing The Stone.
Robin Hood ( Disney )
Fox And The Hound ( Disney )
Flash Gordon.( 1980 )
... and much much more.
Give me Laurel and Hardy and The Marx Brothers any time.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 07, 2017, 04:04 PM:
David, i myself would love all those titles but like you, i am sane, i am more than happy to pay the normal prices for films, ( i was dumb enough to turn down a copy of die hard a couple years ago and regretted it ever since, at that precise time the funds simply were not there),but i guess like many things in life if your bank account is unlimited then you wont worry about prices.
wIth the digital projection equipment,(yes i know its not the same) offering such high quality image and sound for peanuts in comparison it does beggar belief that anyone would pay over a grand for a movie with lines and splices, (remember the scratched copy of t2 that went for well over a grand?)Maybe one day i'll be more than happy to get these sums for my films but knowing my luck it will go full circle.
To answer your question David, i really am stumped and confused why anyone would pay a thousand , or even over 400 for any film. (even thats way over what i would consider paying.
Having said all that, if it is a passion and what you live for then i guess its fill your boots
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 07, 2017, 04:05 PM:
If you were to offer these titles to many different collectors over the entire collecting time period, every one of them would sell time after time. Some, there simply has never been enough copies of to supply the demand.
Everyones tastes in films is different, but to the vast majority of people, a famous titled film becomes one simply through popularity not over hyped media.
If your tastes differ from mainstream David, thats fine , but labeling such popular titles as Highlander for example as Holywood Fodder simply will not wash with many a film lover who also enjoys a blockbuster now and again.
Thats why it is they that WILL spend handsomely on prints like Highlander for example.
Posted by Ty Reynolds (Member # 5117) on March 07, 2017, 04:16 PM:
David, why does it bother you so much that other people have different taste than you?
To answer your question, some people like what you consider to be "run of the mill" commercial fodder Hollywood films. Isn't that enough?
Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on March 07, 2017, 06:00 PM:
I guess I'm a bit of an oddball in this group considering I collect neither films, DVDs, or Blu Rays. Amazon Prime, Netflix, and others are sufficient for my movie tastes. Pretty much the only movies we've purchased are the ones the kids would watch over and over and over again, along with some Christmas classics that get repeated viewings.
So from that standpoint, spending more than a few dollars on any title doesn't make a lot of sense for me regardless of format.
As others have said, the value of a given film to a particular buyer depends on the buyer themselves. Further I strongly believe that for some, the pleasure comes more from the "obtaining" than the "owning". You could even swap the word "obtaining" with "winning" and that would help explain why some people will bid outrageous sums for a film or anything else.
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on March 07, 2017, 06:10 PM:
I have to say...I love that list! I own and love many of those films.
Rocky-Best PIcture of the Year 1977-Close Encounters-Beautiful film with great special effects, Star Wars..well...Classic.
One thing about our hobby is that Super 8 has proven to look great on a big screen and Science Fiction films really look the best on the big screen. And action films. Well..really all films for that matter.
Also I think that if you grew up with those films they are special to you. Maybe if you analyzed the films themselves they may not be the "best" but owning a piece of your childhood is priceless. Well maybe not priceless..these days around $400-1800 lately.
What films would you mortgage the house for? If any?
I have to agree one of the cheesiest campiest films films ever made I own..1980's
Flash Gordon. Yup. Its bad. But I love it!
Posted by Joseph Randall (Member # 4906) on March 07, 2017, 07:37 PM:
Go for the extract from the Marx's OPERA. It runs 36 minutes and is excellent.
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 08, 2017, 02:17 AM:
Would anyone like to part with there mint, but boring print of "Star Wars" for some old Laurel and Hardy films that I have lying around
Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on March 08, 2017, 03:11 AM:
Hey, I buy the best condition and best quality prints... Original boxes if super 8. Don't have to be favourite films. Always looking for mediocre 1990s 16mm prints at good prices. I want the best examples of the formats if you see what I mean.
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 08, 2017, 03:12 AM:
Yes guys I guess one mans run of the mill Hollywood fodder
is another mans cinematographic masterpiece.
Like Tom however I am still unwilling to pay over the odds for
any film at present regardless of how fat my bank account might be at the time.
I never understood why Rocky got a best picture award when much better films such as Network or Taxi Driver should have.
Hey ho there you go that's the Oscars for you.
However there was a certain irony when Annie Hall was awarded
best picture when Woody Allen cant stand the Oscars ceremonies
and the general razzmatazz and tacky glamour surrounding it.
As for Star Wars well I better keep my views on that one to
myself as the Jedi Masters may pursue me to the darkside for
If I did have a mint print of this on 8mm I would gladly sell
for a ridiculous sum of cash. In fact I would gladly exchange
it for some decent prints of Laurel and Hardy or Charlie Chaplin
My sanity clause is that digital is here and its bloody cheaper
and good value for money.
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on March 08, 2017, 07:56 AM:
And the beauty of film and such things is.. I love Annie Hall, Network, and Taxi Driver too. I would pay a lot for Annie Hall if it became available on Super 8. To me..one of the best films of all time!
But Chaplin/ Lauren and Hardy for me-I do understand their contribution to modern cinema-for some reason doesn't do it for me. The earliest films that I can remember that I would get on Super 8 would be the Little Rascals. Thats what I grew up on.
But one thing to remember-Super 8 has always been a rich person's hobby. As a kid I remember seeing for $39.95 200ft Extracts at the local Kmart all shrink wrapped on a rotating display. And the feature print of "Star Wars" when it came out was $400. I still have those catalogs from Larry Arpin aka LA Films.
I think its a testament to Super 8's longevity that a film can be as pricy as a small used car! I would love to get feature films for $9.95 but if the quality is there and its a sought after title expect to pay through the roof for some titles.
I have a limit to what I will pay for a feature but then again..what would I do if I found "Superman" Scope feature? I would have to reconsider my limit!
This is a great topic and I even love the title-Sanity Clause. I thought it was a Christmas thread initially!
[ March 08, 2017, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Alan Rik ]
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 08, 2017, 08:25 AM:
My sanity clause also takes account of a simple fact.
It would be crazy of me to pay huge sums of cash for any movie
if it is of an inferior image quality be it on 8mm / 16mm when
a much better quality can be bought for "sweetie prices" on a digital format.
Therefore the just "because its on actual film" argument does not sway me in the least these days.
I want to watch the movie in the best quality possible I don't
mind if its on digital or film but at a realistic price.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 08, 2017, 08:49 AM:
There are a 6.99 billion others that think likewise David. Just like a billion Chinese love Man Utd!
And I thought you didn't like mainstream?
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on March 08, 2017, 09:35 AM:
Well...to be honest..if we are in this hobby.. are we really "sane"?
We deal with aging projectors that have sound problems, rewind problems, jittery, out of focus- prints that are scratched spliced faded, the list goes on and on. Yet we still will look at a print and think..i'd like that ....! Yet modern technology is awesome. And cheap. Maybe were ...Masochists!!
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 08, 2017, 09:43 AM:
Then why would anybody go fishing when you can buy perfectly good fish at any supermarket?
-one is an activity, the other a commodity.
Sometimes you want to go fishing, sometimes you just feel like fish for dinner.
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 08, 2017, 11:29 AM:
Alan you are correct in what you said.
That's the reason why I have had to introduce a sanity clause.
Andrew I can remember a time when the only means of showing movies at home was mainstream on FILM !
Myself and millions of others who were crazy enough to fork
out huge sums of cash in order to do so.
Some of us were crazy enough to make our on films too.
Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on March 08, 2017, 11:34 AM:
I think fishing is often form of masochism personally.
Steve makes an excellent point. People don't collect Super 8 films just to watch a movie, just as I don't collect film cameras and old lenses just to take pictures and movies.
I've heard some people on this forum describe themselves more as caretakers of the films currently in their possession rather than as owners.
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 08, 2017, 11:49 AM:
After years of hearing me go on (and ON) about it, my wife bought me an Epson VP for Christmas(1). I managed to plumb it into my audio system and couple of times since then we've watched some DVD Feature we've had for years on my big screen and enjoyed it a great deal.
It is genuinely great entertainment, but it's a little bit like the difference between riding a rollercoaster and driving a sports car: one is active, the other passive, both are fun!
I'm still showing film, and enjoying it as much as ever.
(1) Until I can refine the setup some more we often have a DVD player on the dining room table under the beam of the right hand Elmo. Moral: be careful of the gifts you give!
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 08, 2017, 03:12 PM:
Video projectors are great if you want to watch a film, football match or music video.
If you want a tactile and intoxicating hobby, revelling in a bygone era full of beauty and charm as was originally witnessed, buy a quality cine projector and some film!
Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 08, 2017, 03:39 PM:
When's the next winter Olympics?
I want to go down that bobsled run 8 feet wide with stereo sound! (I will get goggles and a knit cap just for the occasion! -maybe bring the fan up from the shop!)
What's funny is there's this 16mm originated film I've always wanted to see as it was meant to be seen: projected. A friend of mine transferred it to DVD and dubbed a sound track. He managed to get all the jitter and dirt and other ancient film (1935) ephemera out of it.
-so I projected the DVD. It was like a drink of apple juice when I was expecting hard cider!
(Way too pasteurized!)
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 08, 2017, 03:42 PM:
My wife loves cooking, she will spend that much money to prepare one/two dishes. She bought a pressure cooker for hundreds dollar just to cook a half kilo meat once and forget it for a very long time.
One night she prepared a dinner. After a long process, I was so starving and finally said to her "the steak from the restaurant in the corner is taste better let us just buy from there. And we don't need to buy that pricey cooker".
She was mad.
In another night I invited her to watch my precious Super 8mm movie collection "Star Wars". I set up the small theatre, moved some furniture, cleaned the film before hand, and finally set up the projector. A minute before it started, I just realized this movie was in scope, so I hold a presentation for a minute or two, took my scope lens and got it ready. Voila!
Movie was now playing, but I found the focus was just not right, I said "Can I stop the film for a minute, dear". She nod, and quickly I ran to the projector and tried to find the best focus on the screen. It was really hard to get the right focus since I was using 1.0 Elmo main lens so it took 3 minutes.
Finally she got fed up and said "just turn on your DVD please, watch from TV"
And I got mad....
So...that is sane or insane clause?
ps: I told many times here that for me collecting super 8mm film was not for enjoying the quality of pictures but more for my notalgic and sentimental reasons.
This is an hobby so is supposed to make us happy ...enjoy it. This will make our live even longer. The happiness
enzyme produced by our body will contribute to a longer live. Although the above story is fictional, but in 2011 I bought my Star Wars F/L for $150 when the market price was already $800-1000.... and this what make me happy.
In reality, until now I just screened it once
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 08, 2017, 03:55 PM:
We don't do "fictional" here Winbert, only real life experiences!
If I had a film I'd only ever want to watch once, I wouldn't have ever even bothered buying it!!!
I've got films I have viewed literally hundreds of times.
They still look like new.
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 08, 2017, 04:28 PM:
Quote from Andrew...."Video projectors are great if you want to watch a film"....hate to burst your bubble Andrew, but video projectors cant project film, only a film projector can do that
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 08, 2017, 04:29 PM:
I think you gathered the point of the script Graham.
If you want to argue semantics, you'll beat me all day long Graham!!
What bubble btw?
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 08, 2017, 04:36 PM:
Wrong thread Santa Claus 🎅🏾
6.99 billion people think Star Wars was crap are you sure I thought it was 7.2 billion.
1 billion Chinese like Man Utd says it all. Wait until they get our Wayne Rooney no Grannies will ever be safe from Shrek 🙀
Away to thrash me self with film leader 📽📽📽📽📽 or the joy.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 08, 2017, 04:38 PM:
Only 6.99 don't like Super 8mm.
The rest absolutely love it!😁😁
Oh the joy, makes far more sense if you're Wayne Rooney!
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 08, 2017, 04:45 PM:
Well he is a Good looking boy from his face you would think he is not wearing any trousers If they send John Terry he will entertain their wives.
6.99 I definitely think you are telling porkies I want a full audit done by Price Waterhouse now they have free time from the Oscars.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 08, 2017, 04:57 PM:
My wife adores John Terry and Chelsea. It must be the "bad boy" in her ha ha.
6.99 billion, absolute up to minute statistics of the world's population who don't adore Super 8mm! Honest...as"they say"
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 08, 2017, 04:59 PM:
I am still in shock that someone here found "Star Wars" boring....
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 08, 2017, 05:05 PM:
It takes all kinds to make a world Graham as they say, and believe me, here alone, we see ALL KINDS!
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 08, 2017, 05:13 PM:
Just don't invite Terry around for a film show in the dark🤗🤗🤗🤗
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 08, 2017, 05:16 PM:
He will be fine mate so long as I get some peace watching my Super 8mm! 😁😁
I'm 50 now, I was dancing and playing in nightclubs and doing rather well when he was born in the early 80s.
Each to their very very own, just give me time to watch them all 100 times eh Winbert!!😁
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 08, 2017, 05:29 PM:
Well on the bright side you could have a permanent set up if she is distracted and if you ask him for £1000 pocket money every week you can buy all those 8mm features. Mind you there was a rumour he was bankrupt and a gambler.
Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on March 08, 2017, 05:45 PM:
It's polite to never question another person's reasons and right to enjoy or dislike any film, book, music etc. and even more important not to tell them what to do with their hard earned cash.
As for the 'digital v cine what's best?' debate give me a break not that old one over and over again.
Can't we just enjoy the hobby in whichever way me prefer with no more preaching about what is right, wrong or otherwise?
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 08, 2017, 05:54 PM:
Here here Kevin!
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 08, 2017, 05:55 PM:
Unfortunately, Kevin senility has set in with a few of these old boys and they can't remember the previous 1047 conversations. They just wonder why you are there in their living room talking to them from magic light box 😳😳 I blame the parents for it all plus too much red meat.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 08, 2017, 05:56 PM:
I love red meat!
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 08, 2017, 06:00 PM:
Yes, but you are supposed to cook it not eat it raw. Just think of all the E numbers you had from smarties when you were young. I see Nestle have reduced sugar content of their sweets by 10% no wonder they don't taste the same.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 08, 2017, 06:02 PM:
I love Smarties equally!
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 08, 2017, 06:06 PM:
Yeah I know I have a four pack in the sweetie bowl. One sweet the females not seem to eat on me. Mind you the Mars pack is getting smaller or am I getting bigger😫😫
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 08, 2017, 06:26 PM:
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 08, 2017, 07:15 PM:
From my fictional story between my wife and I above, I just wanted to give a picture that somebody else may not understand the point of our hobby.
As Kevin wrote,
quote:To be honest, I would like to laugh loudly when findding someone talk to their flowers/trees....but I wouldn't dare doing that in front of these type of person. Not even say my wife steaks have worst taste than the restauran at the corner....especially in front of her
It's polite to never question another person's reasons and right to enjoy or dislike any film, book, music etc.(read: hobby)
Enjoy your hobby ...no matter you watch your films for hundreds times or just to fill your shelf.
Watch or collect film whatever make you happy...Star Wars or Star Trek or even The Rose (here we go again!)
...IT DOESN'T MATTER!
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 09, 2017, 04:30 AM:
We seem to have went off on a slight tangent here chappies.
The hands on approach of the film collecting hobby and all that it entails is another matter.
For the record I don't eat red meat but love trees and like to hug them.
Yes I am one of a kind. I find 'Star Wars' boring and find those
Wooky , C3PO , and R2D2 characters very irritating indeed.
Darth Vadar and his asthmatic breathing bugs me too.
The acting is terrible and very wooden throughout.
What was Alec and Peter thinking of ?
They must have needed the money badly.
Even John William's plagiarised score does not save the
film for me.
So if we must have corny fodder give me the original
Flash Gordon serials from the 1930s any day.
At least it benefits from music by Franz Waxman and Franz Liszt.
Meantime I am sticking with my Sanity Cause.
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 09, 2017, 07:06 AM:
So David, what you are saying is you don't really like it and the steel box Blu ray version I have for your Christmas present may not be such a great idea.
How about Empires Strike Back or Howard the Duck???
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 09, 2017, 12:20 PM:
No Mike give to someone who will enjoy and appreciate it
more than me.
However I would be very happy if you bought me Abel Gance's
NAPOLEON fully restored set on Blu-Ray for Christmas.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 09, 2017, 12:43 PM:
This is a good subject, i can see both sides of the debate here,
I fully agree with David about the cost of stuff,
I also agree with many that a film is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
I was just looking on flea bay at a couple of Derann titles beeing sold by P**** takers.
Lets have a look and add it up shall we,
Full feature the time machine Derann copy £824 +43 postage
Mary poppins £477
Singing in the rain £412
Hunchback of Notre Dame £477
All reasonably good titles, but if you bought them all, thats just 4, yes 4 movies, and it will cost you £2190. No one will convince me this is a ridiculous amount of money to pay for a few titles & i bet most or all of them have some kind of light lines from time to time.
Sorry folks but tjis is where David is coming from, (i think
) & i have to agree with him. You all know what titles i and many others would like but if it means paying in excess of £400-£500 for it i will use the digital format. Whilst to a degree it is supply & Demand this sort of P*** taking pricing is what i use to groan about a lot in the early ebay days after Derann demise, i also said it will price people out of the hobby and will almost certainly put any new comers off. If i was thinking of going into this hobby for the first time i would be laughing at these prices.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 09, 2017, 01:16 PM:
Luckily Tom, you were in it from the good ole days when supply was meeting or exceeding demand.
Now if you want a first run print in tip top condition with no lines whatsoever like what I watched this lunchtime, then I'm afraid you simply have to pay handsomely for the privilege.
There's plenty of people I've found in life, that seem to know the price of everything, but the value of nothing.
It is only the people that truly value these items that ever need worry themselves about these current prices as it is likely that it only will ever be them that ever pay these amounts.
Ironically, what I've equally found, is for those people that are prepared to meet today's asking prices for the very best things available still, they don't really tend to care too much about the price, just the condition of the item.
Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on March 09, 2017, 04:14 PM:
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 09, 2017, 04:16 PM:
If I am not losing the point of this discussion, there are three issues are being discussed (cmiiw):
1. Today's price of films
2. Collector's willingness to spend money for the films
3. Type of films being purchased.
Allow me to express my view:
1. The material cost, inflation rate, and rarity aspect are the main things to hike the price.The demise of Derann is contributing to the traditonal theory above. Collectors are now worried that today is the last chance.
Moral of story: What you pay in 1980 will not be the same in 2017.
2. Collecting is a type of hobby. Hobby is supposed to make people happy. The happiness can come from any sources. With $0 we can still be happy e.g seing kids are obeying our rules. But $1000 cannot always make us happy when we are having high expection in this live. Spending $500 for a film may be high for someone, but on the other hand there are plenty people seing that is just peanut.
- My lawyer charges me $150/hour and he has 8 hours everyday. So you can guess how much he earns a month
- A deposit interest in my country is 8%/annum, this means if somebody is inherited from his/her anchestor a sum of $1 million and put it into the bank, he/she will earn $80,000/year or $219/day without need to work.
It is now not wondering someone is paying $2000 for a bottle of wine or spending $5000 for a 8 days cruise.
Moral of the story: There are plenty rich people out there but the most important are they happy or not?
3. Ones can enjoy coffee with sugar but there are bunch of people drink just plain coffee. Hey... that is coffee, there are people don't like coffee but prefer tea, ..... I like milk by the way. Ah...not a big deal, as long as coffee, tea and milk make us happy.
Moral of story: everyone has his/her own taste. We cannot put our feet on somebody's else shoes. Don't blame!
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 09, 2017, 04:25 PM:
I like PG Tips Winbert, with 2 spoons of Canderel.
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 13, 2017, 04:59 AM:
Well then ... £ 1059.78p for a print of SPEED on Super 8mm film.
I am sticking with my Sanity Clause !
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 13, 2017, 12:16 PM:
" Ha ha ha! You Canna fool me! There is no Sanity Clause!"
Spoken by the very wise Chico Marx!
Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on March 13, 2017, 02:01 PM:
Although, there ARE always cheaper prices on things. You don't have to pay these prices. I have purchased a perfectly good print of Singin In The Rain for £130 in the last year. But I do search several of the continental eBays. I have never paid more than £350 for a single print and never would. If nobody was prepared to pay these high prices then prices would come down.
Posted by Nigel Higgins (Member # 4312) on March 13, 2017, 02:53 PM:
Well if people want to pay £1019 pounds for a star wars super 8mm film i personaly think they are totaly mad its not even that rare as derann sold a few hundred of them at the time ,i know some are richer than others but come on its just greed with the sellers £400 is a max price for this surely ,this is why i dont collect 8mm anymore its just gone mad ,p.s if i ever stubble on that film i will sell to the first person with £400 .
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 13, 2017, 03:36 PM:
Yes Nigel MAD being the operative word here.
Even if they can and are willing to pay over the top prices
I think they are insane and are in need of a Sanity Clause.
I mean its only 8mm film after all...Come on get real !
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2017, 06:05 PM:
Nigel, I promise you, based on your words there,you won't ever stumble upon a decent early Derann print of Star Wars!
The £400 is here and waiting mate, but I promise you,.. it will simply never ever happen. The time has been and gone!
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on March 13, 2017, 06:31 PM:
Wow..that much for "Speed"? Now for me...that is over the top!
And I own "Speed".
I guess now is the time to sell.
I won't but if you are thinking about it now is the time.
That is insane. At this rate..I'll be priced out of the hobby soon.
I wonder if its a bunch of new collectors who just won the Lotto?
Or maybe they are buyers who only collect and do not screen anything?
I remember a buyer who shall be called F.A. When he burst upon the scene he bought everything and anything related to Elmo and he drove up the market like crazy.
He outbid everyone on everything. 1.0 lens sold for $550 +. Great for the seller but really bad for the market. But-he didn't know anything really about Super 8 but he had cash to burn. When he purchased something off you he wanted it sent overnight Express no matter what the cost. He would say, "I don't care about the cost. Send it and give me the bill". I wonder if these buyers are the same type of "collector"?
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 13, 2017, 06:47 PM:
I have Speed also as you probably know Alan, and while I agree, it's not the best of the best 90's films in the world, it's one I love and cherish.
I rate it as highly repeatedly and watchable as any Star Wars or any of the others from this same era.
Therefore if someone wants to spend a grand on SW, then I'd certainly advocate this film could well be worth a similar amount in my book.
Not that any of this matters to me, as I won't ever be selling anything I've been lucky enough to collect this time around.
It's all dead money to me, but highly satisfying expenditure nevertheless.
Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on March 13, 2017, 07:37 PM:
David Hardy mentioned "Napolean" on the 1st posting on this page. This a link to YouTube showing the BFI's trailer for their restored version. Jaw-dropping....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6504eRh5h6M
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 13, 2017, 07:57 PM:
What may happen now, that those films are collected by rich men who don't really bother with super 8mm. They bought just for the sake to own it. There will be a limit, when finally the trend will slow down and the price will drop. This is something we see often in the stock market. If I were a stockbrokers, and you were the investor, I would susggest to sell your stocks now.
I knew some members here are actually investing their money on films. I knew somone who owns 3 copies of the same title. This is the math:
If that print was purchased in 2001 where the price was about £345 for a Speed (colur and sound), this means after 16 years (2017) the actual cost after inflation is: £533.81, according to this Inflation calculator rate. So something is sold below that amount does not make any sense.
Now investing must also calculate the interest and profit for taking the property stored/deposited. The interest rate will be around 8%/annum. It is about £30/year, so after 16 years it will be £1181.95 (flat interest rate).
This is only for brand new prints that never been run on projectors. So if you have this kind of print, you must sell above £1181.95 for a Speed print. If you sell below that price this means you are investing for nothing.
It is different case for a second hand print. So if it sold for about £533.81 you are even. You enjoy your movie for several screening and got your money back in full amount. Now, if you sell more than that...You are lucky!
Think about that!
Derann List for Brand new prints 2001
Price Conversion code in 2001
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 13, 2017, 11:19 PM:
I dont think its "mad" for people to pay large sums of money for a film. If they can afford it thats fine by me.....each to there own.
Posted by Martin Davey (Member # 2841) on March 14, 2017, 03:27 AM:
I feel fortunate. I started collecting films in 1980 but I have never had the slightest interest whatsoever in buying features, instead just collecting shorts, trailers, L&H etc. I get my 'film projection' fix just by running those from the top of the pile down to the bottom, and when I reach the bottom I start again at the top. I have always viewed feature film buying risky, even when prices were normal. If I brought a new trailer and finding on projection it had a blue cast, negative sparkle and muddy sound, then I can write it off, but I was not ever prepared to buy a feature for a few £100 and have the same disappointment.
All my feature film watching now is via blu ray, projecting on a 7ft screen with 5.1 sound. It may be Star Wars, Gone with the Wind or Taxi Driver, but its cheap and is of a predictable technical quality, my cheapest purchase being 'The Artist' at £1.50.
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 14, 2017, 03:56 AM:
Martin you have a sensible and common sense approach to
your movie viewing habits in 2017 and beyond. I have been collecting 8mm since 1966.
Winbert thanks for that information regarding inflation
I am about to look at my Super 8mm feature collection
with a view to selling them off at greatly inflated prices
while the iron is still hot and they can still be projected.
I have one very valid and sane reason for doing this.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 14, 2017, 05:22 AM:
Cannot wait David!
If you no longer want them, there's plenty out there that do, even with over inflated prices.
As for Winberts calculations,..please allow me to share the official collectors calculation..
Price of film divided by number of years left to screen it in equals pleasure price per annum,.. then multiplied by ten thousand = pleasure obtained total (measured in endorphins) by the average film collector!
[ March 14, 2017, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]
Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on March 14, 2017, 05:54 AM:
I was talking only yesterday to a small time film dealer. He said that he put many Super 8 digests on eBay recently at "Buy It Now" prices of around £10 to £15 each. He was surprised that he didn't even sell one of them.
He went on an eBay search and discovered that the same titles were advertised, and being sold, at around £50 each. So he upped his prices.
He very quickly sold the lot !!
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 14, 2017, 06:16 AM:
And if any dealer would therefore like to advertise later Derann features at cut down prices just to put a few off, rather than selling them all on ebay for top dollar,..
I'd be the one to buy them all so long as they are all in good Nick! 😂😂
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 14, 2017, 08:10 AM:
Collectors' calculation is based on his/her hobby. Therefore no matter £1000 for Speed or £10 for a TJ as long as it makes you happy, be with it.
Happiness cannot be measured with money.Therefor it is not a Sanity clause per thread subject.
It is a different case if he/she buy a print with the intention to re sale it in the future at a better price. You will be lost here.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 14, 2017, 08:17 AM:
indeed I will be Winbert as I have no desire whatsoever to ever fleece anyone by selling at profit, a commodity I love.
I buy to collect, never to sell for profit!
When I have very very occasionally let items go that mean more to one particular decent collector than they do to myself, I've either sold them for what I've paid or less than I've paid if they are still complaining.
That's my nature Winbert, I like to share the excitement and love for the hobby personally, and couldn't give a flying you know what about money, only what I can buy with it!
The names Hunt,...
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on March 14, 2017, 06:28 PM:
Dictionary states....of sound mind: sensible: rational.
Well that must rule out anyone that collects films in this digital age....so sell all your precious films and buy the blu-ray instead
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 15, 2017, 12:16 PM:
As a general rule, STAR WARS is the odd print that will go for absolutely astounding prices, but then, it's one of the few "cross-over" prints in that, even people who have no intention of buying a projector, will but this film just to say that they have an actual STAR WARS print of thier own.
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 15, 2017, 05:19 PM:
Yes Sane = Rational / Sound Mind and all that psycho - babble
while we in the West sit back and spend hundreds or thousands
of pounds or dollars on prints in order to be ENTERTAINED in
our own homes.
While others starve to death along with their children due to
famines or wars caused by the greed of the Western World.
Something is not right here.
Is it just me ?
In fact I feel kind of guilty right now .
How about you ?
This hobby has gone nuts price wise.
Its okay guys I don't wish to discuss politics or religion.
Its just the way I feel about things in the world at the moment.
My hobbies are not enough of a distraction at the moment I guess.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 15, 2017, 09:49 PM:
quote:David, if this is your reason to start this topic, then you are in a wrong place.
on prints in order to be ENTERTAINED in
our own homes. While others starve to death along with their children due to famines or wars caused by the greed of the Western World.
Hobby is to satisfy ourselves, not even my wife and kids. It is a selfish thing, if I want to say. If my wife or kids like my hobby, that is a side advantage, but not my intention. My wife does not even like my hobby nor agree with my purchase for super 8mm prints, so why I have to care with outside my house.
It does not mean I did not care with the outside but there is a proper place to express that feeling, not here.
[ March 16, 2017, 01:02 AM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 16, 2017, 06:19 AM:
Winbert you are correct this is not the place.
I may just have to much of a social conscious I guess.
I will be saying no more on this.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 16, 2017, 11:06 AM:
I have a social conscience ...
but I have also EARNED the right to spend a tad bit on me-self for that odd, pricey print.
I won't go into politics and such for, as you said, it's not the place.
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 17, 2017, 04:36 AM:
I have just solved the problem as to how to put an end to
these crazy rising false values on 8mm prints.
Instead of selling my collection i could destroy all my prints.
That way they are taken out of circulation for good.
I shall burn them all in the back yard.
My worry is that this may in the long term push prices even
higher as there would be less in circulation and make the "rare"
prints even rarer. BLOODY HELL !!!
As an alternative I could sell them very cheaply in order to push
down prices thus decrease the value.
Anyone want to buy a complete print of Gone With The Wind for
£ 10.00 ? Hahaha !!!
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 17, 2017, 06:47 AM:
That's just it though David isn't it?
Much as we see collectors old and new criticizing prices these days, for those that have any of the most desirable type like your good self here with your GWTW print, no one is prepared to stick to a principle and let them go for good old fashioned second hand dealers prices, are they?
I'm not suggesting for one minute they should, after all they'd no doubt simply just get stitched up by seeing the very same film on ebay a week later for 3 times what they paid.
That of course, is the other problem in all of this.
Some people just have the morals of an alley cat, even when you try to do them a good turn.
Devout film collectors only until the ten pound note signs appear before their very eyes!
Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on March 17, 2017, 07:06 PM:
I would say bring in on David you could be in he south of France in a magnificent villa. I would warn you GWTW is not a popular title for collectors too long and belongs to the sector that I think will decline in value pre 1940s western and musicals from golden era. The big hitters that will sell for big prices will always be horror, science fiction and Disney look at what Derann continually released at their peak.
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 17, 2017, 07:07 PM:
And on that one, I totally agree Mike!
Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on March 28, 2017, 06:20 PM:
I should do just fine if I ever did sell my 8mm features.
I have some good Derann prints in my collection at the moment
and because anything Derann appears to be 'hot' I could be
quite well off soon.
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