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Posted by Robert Hudson (Member # 3996) on April 01, 2017, 09:58 PM:
 
For just over a monrth now I have been using the Wolverine Reels2Digital MovieMaker to convert Super 8mm and Regular 8mm film to video. Overall I love it: it is highly compressed but when I upload my movies to You Tube and watch them on a 40 inch HDTV they look great. I digitized some old movies I've had for years and by selling those films on ebay, I paid for the Wolverine in about a week or two (I link all the ebay listings to the You Tube videos: being able to see the whole movie really makes it so much easier for buyers). I've also digitized a bunch of my wife's family's movies. These were on the Super 8 Technicolor Super 8 Magni-Cartridges: it's a chore getting the film out of those!

The Wolverine digitizes at 30fps, which is the NTSC standard and - I understand - is hard-coded into the video chip they use. It's easy to slow the video down in your editing program: slow it to 53 percent for 16 fps film or 60% for 18 fps.

Another issue is Kodachrome: yellows are really bright: I roll back the color saturation a small amount to clean that up.

Yet another issue is that the machine can't use 7 inch reels: I made an adapter to play them:

 -

This has worked pretty well. I did a couple of videos on the adapter. Here's the You Tube playlist for those: Wolverine videos

Okay - ONE MORE VERY SERIOUS ISSUE (shouting is intended):

My Wolverine is melting! The drive belt is soft, sticky and melting onto the drive pulleys and other parts of the Wolverine. My latest video on the playlist gets into that. This is a serious problem unless you like having a tar-like substance gumming up expensive gear.

I'm going to try to remove the melting belt and see if I can find a replacement online and Wolverine needs to find a better quality belt.

It's a pain to deal with that but sadly Chinese-made products suffer from poor quality control and often inferior parts. I fly drone/quadcopters and it is amazing how often something ships without key components (twice I've gotten empty envelopes from Chinese vendors).

Back to the quality: I've worked professionally in digital media since the 80's and I am pleased with the kind of video produced by this $300 machine. Image quality is often more about perception than technical specs and the reaction to the Wolverine-digitized movies has been totally positive. Is this the machine you want to use to digitize 8mm movies for your Hollywood film production? No...but with some color grading in Final Cut Pro or other editing programs you could get some footage well-suited for most online viewing purposes, including documentaries. Content is king with these old movies: if the content is right, the quality only has to be "good enough."

I will mention that the Wolverine is subject to some of the same pitfalls as any other film handling device, including projectors. Splices can jam in the film gate and the film can break - but the low speed of the Wolverine (four hours to digitize a 7 inch reel) is much more gentle on the film when it breaks. I've found it easy to rewind film after a break and splice it back together without losing more than a couple of frames (one of my videos covers that). The Wolverine shuts off when there's a jam, which is really nice.

When I built my 7-inch reel adapter I was concerned about whether that would put too much strain on the Wolverine take-up reel (which is used as a drive pulley for the adapter). If there is any extra strain, that should not cause a belt to melt. It would be interesting to learn if anyone else with a Wolverine Reels2Digital has a melting belt even without using an adapter similar to mine. It's easy to remove the back of the machine in case you want to check on your unit.

I hope they fix this problem: my other wish is that they'd make one for 16mm film !
 
Posted by Robert Hudson (Member # 3996) on April 03, 2017, 12:45 AM:
 
I speculated that heat might cause some problems such as a melting belt. I ran some tests today: one of the belt pulleys is about 1/4 inch from the stepper motor and the temperature in that spot was almost 130 degrees after digtizing one 5 inch reel. Here's a video for that WOLVERINE TEMP VIDEO
 
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on April 03, 2017, 03:25 AM:
 
Robert

I would remove your old belt and match it to a Neopreme O ring from a local supplier of seals and O rings.

Regarding the heat, why dont you cut a hole in the back cover and install a small.. say a 12volt 80mm Silent case fan. they are very cheap to buy and place a small vent opposite the fan, to allow air to flow in through the vent and out of the unit with the fan. That should draw most of the heat away.
 
Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on April 03, 2017, 04:20 AM:
 
As has already been pointed out previously, never forget though, that "O" Rings are not designed to have much elasticity or stretch like a drive belt by design has.

They are by design, made only to fit a machined recess to form a seal and therefore are made to a precise diameter and not one which is intended to be increased by stretch.

Try if you can, to find a belt designed to be a drive belt in order to keep the load and wear to your motor and pulley bearings to a minimum on our aging machines.
 
Posted by Peter Scott (Member # 4541) on April 03, 2017, 05:34 AM:
 
I have a wolverine moviemaker but keep getting problems with the sensor getting dirt on to it and then run constantly when I switch on.
Do you have the same problems ?
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 03, 2017, 07:42 AM:
 
Robert, can you post some links to the videos showing the results that you get with the Wolverine?
 
Posted by Robert Hudson (Member # 3996) on April 03, 2017, 09:47 AM:
 
Here's my YouTube channel: all of the 8 and Super 8 videos uploaded since February were digtized on the Wolverine: Bob Hudson You Tube channel

Here's one with some (rare) nice camera work:
Parade Movie

Regarding: ".. have a wolverine moviemaker but keep getting problems with the sensor getting dirt on to it and then run constantly when I switch on.
Do you have the same problems ? "

I blast the heck out it with canned air each time I use it.
 
Posted by Peter Scott (Member # 4541) on April 03, 2017, 11:21 AM:
 
Thanks Robert, I have found out that is the trick now.
 
Posted by Robert Hudson (Member # 3996) on April 03, 2017, 12:38 PM:
 
I have created a playlist of the 8 and super 8 movie's I've uploaded to You Tube: Wolverine digitized movies playlist

The only correction to the movies was to reduce saturation very slightly because of the very bright yellows in Kodachrome films. The music was added from You Tube's audio editor. Several more scanned movies are not on the playlist: they are my wife's family movies circa 1967-72 and I did some color and exposure corrections on those since I wasn't going to sell them.

Actually there is one for sale that I played with and did some scene-by-scene corrections on - nothing fancy, just quick and dirty adjustments: Parade movie
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 03, 2017, 02:17 PM:
 
Hi Robert,

This thread is exactly what I was looking for. I just joined the 8mm-to-bytes party - rather late I know - last week. I'm planning to capture about 120 hrs of double-8 family films to 720/1080p mp4's.

So thanks for sharing and I'll surely keep track of this thread with great interest. Do you by change know where to find some raw capture material from the Wolverine, so I can testdrive it in my software render farm to check its output?

Thanks in advance and keep up the good work!

Cheers
 
Posted by Gary Sayers (Member # 5545) on April 03, 2017, 02:54 PM:
 
Hi Robert,

Many thanks for the link to your films that were transferred using the wolverine unit - they look very good to me.

I've been thinking about getting one of these for a while now but have been put off by the mixed opinions that I've read about this machine. Seeing your footage has swayed my opinion in favour of the unit.

Also, I wish it was available in the UK rather than having to import from the U.S.A (or from Germany, where a branded one is available). Not because of the extra costs (although it is a factor) but in case of the need to return it for repairs.

Can I just ask what alerted you to the melting drive belt? Was it it's performance, a noise, a smell or was it discovered simply while doing an inspection of the interior?

Thanks,
Gary
 
Posted by Robert Hudson (Member # 3996) on April 03, 2017, 03:55 PM:
 
"Can I just ask what alerted you to the melting drive belt? Was it it's performance, a noise, a smell or was it discovered simply while doing an inspection of the interior?"

I have digitized perhaps 60 reels of fil, most of them 5-7 inch reels. Some have been scanned twice because I accidently deleted a folder on my MacBook. Some were captured in two or more segments and there were some short recordings that were not used. I have started over 200 capture sessions and put a big load on this: in the last month I have had this thing running almost every waking hour when I was home.

It started to slow down so that the takeup reel was not turning and/or there was a noise from the takeup reel spindle on the MovieMaker.

I decided to open it up and see what's up with that. I could feel a very warm spot on the back of the Wolverine (the indentation above the SD card and power ports).

I was shocked when I did the tests and found the temperature was almost 130 - and that was after running just one 5 inch reel: I can only imagine what might happen encoding a 7-inch reel (or a couple of them back-to-back). One online expert said that every 35 degrees above 85 F can cut belt life in half. I can envision this machine easily running 70 degrees above 85 when scanning a 7-inch reel or two for 4-8 hours.

I am going install a cooling fan and drill some vent hole in the back cover. Before that, though, I will encode another 7-inch reel and record the temps from that.

I've pushed this thing like it was made for commercial service, which it clearly wasn't. The stepper motor seems heavy-duty (which may be why it generates so much heat) but someone made a major design mistake by putting it so close to the belt and the control board (which gets heated to perhaps 100 and beyond).

I'd suggest not pushing like I did. The machine has paid for itself and I've pretty much cleaned out the large inventory of old 8 and super 8 movies I've accumulated from estate sales. And, we only have a dozen 3-inch reels of my wife's family movies left to scan, so unless I get some fantastic finds, I shouldn't have to repeat the heavy workload of the past month.

I will try to post some raw footage from the scanner: the files are surprisingly small, but also surprisingly good.

I used to consult on DVD production and video compression and I remember seeing 15 years ago some early low-cost hardware encoders that looked like they could change things around: they've come a long way and I give the encoder in this good marks. Don't worry about bitrates, etc. - just enjoy the pretty pictures!

Oh, by the way: all of my Wolverine movies were edited and uploaded to You Tube as 720p videos.
 
Posted by Gary Sayers (Member # 5545) on April 03, 2017, 04:15 PM:
 
Thanks for the very detailed reply Robert.

I probably have less than a tenth of the amount of film to digitise than you have put through the unit, so I may well give it a go.

A youtube video of the fan installation, when it is done, would be useful for many prospective buyers too (I think wolverine may be interested in your conclusions - it may be worthwile sending them an email).

Thanks,
Gary
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 03, 2017, 05:43 PM:
 
Robert, no self respecting rubber drive belt would fail at 130F, that belt must be fabricated from some very crappy material. A Butyl rubber, neoprene, ethylene-propylene or silicone rubber belt would not be damaged by temps well above 250f. I suggest you measure it up and try and find something close at an Ace hardware store.
 
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on April 03, 2017, 06:16 PM:
 
As Paul has mentioned Elhylene Propylene rubber EPM will do

As mentioned before those O rings "EPM" of that material is readly available in a wide range of sizes, that's why you need to take in your old one as an example when you visit a supplier. Because those O rings are so cheap to buy, a extra one, say a size bigger and possible one smaller as well as the one matched up at the counter.

Those EPM O rings are black in colour and have a range from -70 to 250 F.

When fitting them, just make sure to get just the right amount of tension...not to tight.. not to slack...like adjusting your car fan belt [Smile]

An O ring is a torus, or doughnut-shaped ring, generally molded from an elestomer. O rings are used primarly for sealing. They are also used as light-duty mechanical drive belts.

Robert talk to the person at the counter and tell them its purpose and if they are like the people I have dealt with over the years they will be very helpfull in your quest. [Smile]
 
Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on April 03, 2017, 06:18 PM:
 
Hi, Robert. I don't know why, but, when I click on the link to "Parade movie" in your 4th post, a list of my own digitised cine clips uploaded to YouTube appears. They're definitely not for sale!
 
Posted by Robert Hudson (Member # 3996) on April 03, 2017, 06:51 PM:
 
"Hi, Robert. I don't know why, but, when I click on the link to "Parade movie" in your 4th post, a list of my own digitised cine clips uploaded to YouTube appears. They're definitely not for sale! "

Hmmm - I checked and it seemed okay. https://youtu.be/i5G33jfJIAg
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 03, 2017, 07:50 PM:
 
Following up on what Graham has said, yes O-rings are used primarily for sealing purposes, but they can definitely be used as pulley drive belts. About 25 years ago I had to replace the OEM drive belts on my Bolex 18-5 projector, which had disintegrated. I found a Butyl B6-12 rubber o-ring and replaced them into the 3 pulleys on the Bolex drive shafts. The Projector has worked perfectly ever since and the O-rings still look like new. So.I am absolutely sure that with a little trial and error Robert will be able to find the perfect o-ring to do the job. Main thing, as Graham states, is not to overload the toy-like shafts of the Wolverine drive system.
Incidentally, web reviews of the Wolverine range from great to " a piece of junk", so what is the true assessment of this very interesting product? Is it purchase at your own risk?
 
Posted by Will Trenfield (Member # 5321) on April 03, 2017, 07:53 PM:
 
Thanks. Now, that link works ok for some reason. Good quality.
 
Posted by Robert Hudson (Member # 3996) on April 03, 2017, 09:01 PM:
 
"Incidentally, web reviews of the Wolverine range from great to " a piece of junk", so what is the true assessment of this very interesting product? Is it purchase at your own risk?"

No risk: out of the box it will produce nice video copies of 8mm and Super 8mm movies. Anyone who has ever been frustrated trying to shoot movies on the screen or one of those right angle mirror things will quickly appreciate what this machine does, for really not much money. The next cheapest solution I've found is $1,800 and only does Super 8.

The lack of heatsinks aside, the bulld quality is pretty good. Compromises were made to keep the price down (the film path "rollers" don't actually roll), but I like the results and I could afford it.
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 03, 2017, 09:29 PM:
 
Thanks for your valued opinion Robert. I am seriously considering springing for one of these, and modifying it for larger reels as you have done.

[ April 03, 2017, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: Paul Adsett ]
 
Posted by Robert Hudson (Member # 3996) on April 03, 2017, 11:50 PM:
 
I have uploaded some raw Wolverine files to my server in case anyone wants to see what that looks like. These were uploaded direct from the SD card so nothing has been changed: http://bhmilitaria.com/samples/index.html
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 03, 2017, 11:56 PM:
 
Robert,
Looking at your 'melting belt' video I am wondering if the belt continually slips on the pulley when the film is stationary in the gate. This could possibly create heat and wear on the belt. Perhaps what you are seeing is the result of wear rather than melting. Just a thought.
 
Posted by Robert Hudson (Member # 3996) on April 04, 2017, 12:19 AM:
 
"Looking at your 'melting belt' video I am wondering if the belt continually slips on the pulley when the film is stationary in the gate. This could possibly create heat and wear on the belt. Perhaps what you are seeing is the result of wear rather than melting. Just a thought."

There could be some wear that way, but it would have to be some high speed friction to compete with that intense 130 degree+ heat from the motor. I have had slipping belts in old phonographs and reel-to-reel recorders and I seem to recall a belt slipping enough to generate lots of heat also generated the smell of burning rubber. There are no smells here. The take up reel spindle on the Wolverine is designed to slip if too much of a load is put on it and that should slip before the belt does. As it is, the belt is permanently sticky and between that and the melted belt goo stuck to the pulleys, I think the belt has too much traction to slip.

If anyone wants to open up their Wolverine to check the belt it's really easy. There is a screw in each of the deep holes on the back. Take those out and the back cover lifts off: no wires to disconnect. There are no stickers that would be broken if you remove it, so it wouldn't affect your warranty.

I ran another test tonight: I used my 7-inch reel adapter and scanned a 7 inch reel that wasn't quite full. The temps were about the same as when I scanned a 5 inch reel using just the Wolverine and not the adapter: 90 degrees ambient temp inside the case during scanning, over 130 degrees between the motor and the pulley after the scan ended. It was over 115 degrees in the 3mm or so space between the motor and the SD card slot mounted on the circuit board: that's warmer than the previous test, but the circuit board had a long time to cool off before being measured for the first test.

I had expected temps to get much higher with a longer tape to scan, but thankfully that did not happen. I'm going to put in a fan, hopefully find a new belt and continue to use the machine with the large reel adapter.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 04, 2017, 03:19 AM:
 
Hi Robert,

Thank you very much for providing the raw samples from the Wolverine for the 8mm and Super 8mm! As soon as I've processed both, I'll post back in this thread.

EDIT: my first render test in Power Director 15:
1. import 4:3 raw into 16:9 timeline -> zoom (crop) to full frame
2. noise reduction
3. color-grading incl. new white-point
4. speed adjustment to 0.600

Here is my first result. Wel, I'm afraid the conversion from 4:3 to 16:9 full frame was not the best of ideas.

https://m4v3r1ck.stackstorage.com/s/QWW0ju1LVs0mGwD

Comments and suggestions for improvements greatly appreciated!

Cheers

[ April 05, 2017, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: Berend De Meyer ]
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 05, 2017, 02:17 PM:
 
Hi Robert,

I found the European version of the Wolverine, the Somikron HD-XL 8mm film scanner. Note that the resolution got a slight bump. Can the USB 2.0 port be used to transfer the raw to a PC while scanning, or is it only used to copy raw from the SD - after the scan - card to a PC?

* translated the German info at https://www.pearl.de/a-NX4294-1301.shtml?query=somikron to English with Google *

HD-XL film scanner for easy digitization of Super 8 and 8 mm films (switchable)
High-resolution 1/3 "CMOS sensor with 3.53 megapixels
Scan resolution: 1440 x 1080 pixels at 30 frames / sec.
Stand-alone recording: saves directly to SD (HC) card up to 32 GB, no PC necessary
Recording format: MP4 video, no recording of the audio track
Automatic exposure, manual correction (-2.0 to +2.0 EV), automatic white balance
Light source: LED lighting
Built-in TFT LCD display: 6 cm / 2.4 "
USB 2.0 port for data transfer to the computer
TV output: PAL / NTSC
For Super 8 and Normal 8 film coils (adapter 8/13 mm included) up to 17.8 cm / 7 "
Automatic stop at the end of the movie
Fast rewinding (requires about 2 minutes for 10 minutes of film)
Integrated carrying handle
Connections: TV-Out (3.5 mm jack), mini USB, slot for SD (HC) cards up to 32 GB, power supply
Supports Windows XP / Vista / 7/8 / 8.1 / 10, OS X from 10.7.3
Power supply: 12 V via 230 V power supply (cable length: 1.2 m)
Measurements: 32 x 18,5 x 11 cm, weight: 1,5 kg
Filmcanner including Film-Leerspule, Film-coil-adapters, spacer-rings for the film guide, power supply, video cable (3.5 mm jack to RCA, 150 cm), USB cable (mini USB to USB, 100 cm) And German instructions

Cheers
 
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 05, 2017, 04:59 PM:
 
It is very hard to justify the result of this transfer, if the source material is a home movie, due to shaky, coloring, lab process and shooting technique did not have the standard. Can you guys do the transfer from a packed film or trailer, if you have such material please.
 
Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on April 05, 2017, 07:46 PM:
 
Sounds like they're selling fairly well. There are some pretty positive reviews at B&H photo, an online photography supply shop.

When my brother and I looked at the cost of digitizing our family films using a quality service, it would would cost about $1,000 and I don't think it was even HD. This is 720p for $300 and considering the quality of our family's movies, that's probably good enough. If image quality was very important to my Dad, he would have cleaned the gate and lenses a little more often. [Wink] He just wanted to capture the moments and allow them to be replayed. Right now all I have are bad VHS copies of a 1/3 of the movies with the originals sitting in Hawaii.

If you're still shooting Super 8 today, you're already investing a fair amount of money into it and probably want to get the best results you reasonably can get. In that case, the wolverine may not deliver.

Maybe if enough people get these, it will drive down the costs of more professional scanning services.
 
Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on April 05, 2017, 11:08 PM:
 
Having looked over the clips here and other stuff previously, forgive me, but I'm going to rain on this parade. I think the Wolverine is an amazing product for the price. But it's not an amazing product when compared with professional quality imaging, and I understand it doesn't claim to be. And here's the consumer-level problem: anyone with a DSLR and a variable-speed projector can get a more true and detailed transfer for free. BUT if you don't have them, you can't buy a DSLR and projector for a mere $300!

This strikes me as a case of you-get-what-you-pay-for. If you want amazingly faithful, film-like images from your movies, this is NOT the ticket. If you're merely happy to just be able to see what's on those reels, well then, shoot away! But these transfers should never be considered a replacement for the real reels.
 
Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on April 05, 2017, 11:40 PM:
 
Here is a bit of raw super 8mm done on my Wolverine.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvCveP_G_v8

Straight from the Wolverine to my computer..now!
https://youtu.be/d9fTsuAXSpc

[ April 06, 2017, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: Trevor Adams ]
 
Posted by Tom Spielman (Member # 5352) on April 06, 2017, 12:25 AM:
 
Well I have a DSLR and a good projector but telecine is still kind of a black art. It took a lot of experimenting and researching various settings on the camera to get good results. And I was not smart enough to write down what I ended up with so next time I'll have to go through at least some of it again. [Wink]

Then there's the process of getting everything lined up and in focus.

Based on the clips I've seen I'm not sure the results from the Wolverine are any worse than what I was able to do. It's hard to know without seeing the originals.
 
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 06, 2017, 02:27 AM:
 
Trevor, thanks for posting the telecine from Marketing trailers.

One question, I believe the trailer is on 24 fps, why sometimes the transfer looks faster than normal?

cheers,
 
Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on April 06, 2017, 03:51 AM:
 
Very interesting topic, have a look at this on Vimeo and see what you think...he also shows the results on Vimeo which look very good indeed.

https://vimeo.com/millerandmiller/telecine

https://vimeo.com/20900718
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 06, 2017, 04:17 AM:
 
Hi Trevor,

Thanks for your reply! Is there a way - link - to download your raw for testing purpose?

Hi Graham,

Thanks for your reply!

quote:

Very interesting topic, have a look at this on Vimeo and see what you think...he also shows the results on Vimeo which look very good indeed.
https://vimeo.com/millerandmiller/telecine
]https://vimeo.com/20900718

Our family owns the EUMIG MARK 610D, but I'm very reluctant to do so much hardware adjustments. I just ordered the Somikron HD-XL 8mm Film Scanner 1080 from PEARL.DE, it's the 1080 version of the Wolverine. When the Q is still very disappointing I may consider this DIY modifications in the near future.

Cheers
 
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 06, 2017, 05:06 AM:
 
quote:

Thanks for your reply! Is there a way - link - to download your raw for testing purpose?

Berend, Trevor uploaded with HD qualit,. If you set your youtube on HD quality you will get 720P, that is something Wolverine max can do right?
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 06, 2017, 06:05 AM:
 
Hi Winbert,

Thanks for your reply.

quote:

Berend, Trevor uploaded with HD qualit,. If you set your youtube on HD quality you will get 720P, that is something Wolverine max can do right?

Yes, the Wolverine brand of this machine (US-market) has a max output of 720p and I did play his Youtube video at that resolution. What I meant by downloading his RAW footage from the Wolverine, is to be able to test drive his raw in my Cyberlink Power Director v15 software.

quote:

One question, I believe the trailer is on 24 fps, why sometimes the transfer looks faster than normal?

IIRC When - like say - the original footage was filmed @18fps, the Wolverine captures @30fps so you have to slow the capture in an video editing application down by 0.6 to get the 1:1 speed of the original.

My second trial-and-error, now again back at 4:3 aspect and tuned the speed to the original @18fps.

Wolverine test footage 4:3 / speed @18fps

Cheers
 
Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on April 06, 2017, 06:51 AM:
 
Thanks Winbert and Berend,loaded at 30fps is a bit quick.Needs to go to iMovie for edit/speed treatment. Those Marketing promos used to be sharp as tacks and beautifully coloured.MUCH better than the 1200ft digests I got them with.All gone now.I'm really only playing around with bits of old home movie.I have to learn to use the Wolfy properly and in conjunction with a site like iMovie
.....regards Trev
 
Posted by Gary Sayers (Member # 5545) on April 06, 2017, 08:28 AM:
 
Took the plunge and ordered a wolverine from Amazon.com, which worked out at £331 including postage and import duties to the UK.
They estimate the import duties and refund any overpayment but don't charge extra if they have underestimated.

I figured that at least I would have the backup of Amazon's excellent returns service if anything goes wrong with it (in the first month at least).

Not in stock at the moment but should be shipped by the middle of May.

EDIT: April 23rd - Took advantage of improved exchange rates. Cancelled my order - then re-ordered, with the total cost now coming in at £293.79!

[ April 23, 2017, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: Gary Sayers ]
 
Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on April 06, 2017, 06:50 PM:
 
Sent the Marketing Promo to your email Berend,regards,Trevor
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 06, 2017, 08:40 PM:
 
Trev's digitized family movies look great, far better than I have yet been able to get with videoing off the screen. I am getting very tempted to purchase a Wolverine.
 
Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on April 07, 2017, 12:12 AM:
 
Paul,those kids(Daniel in swing,Lucy pushing)are now 49 and 52!

PS can I get rid of my photo? [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on April 07, 2017, 01:42 AM:
 
Trevor, I don't really get when you are saying:

quote:
loaded at 30fps is a bit quick.Needs to go to iMovie for edit/speed treatment.
Is Wolverine scanning frame by frame or real transfer (real time screening)?

If this is scanning frame by frame, why it is 30 fps? Cannot we order the computer to play at 24 fps instead?

cheers,
 
Posted by Robert Hudson (Member # 3996) on April 07, 2017, 02:11 AM:
 
"If this is scanning frame by frame, why it is 30 fps? Cannot we order the computer to play at 24 fps instead?"

Wolverine uses a hardware encoder that has an NTSC frame rate, 30 fps. But even fror PAL countries you do not want to change to 24fps: the movies will still look fast, so you slow them to 60% of fulll speed for 18fps films or 53% for 16fps movies. All of the movies I show at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_07k-Fk3TBA&list=PL4GkBnpUqP1ruSiEDMv7wAwvPP548HNP_ were digitized by the Wolverine and then slowed to 53% in Final Cut Pro (some of my earliest Wolverine projects were only slowed to 60% when they should have been slowed to 53%)..
 
Posted by Barbara Strohl (Member # 5227) on April 09, 2017, 11:06 AM:
 
Has anyone been able to confirm that the European version, the Somikron HD-XL, does have higher resolution?
 
Posted by Robert Hudson (Member # 3996) on April 11, 2017, 02:38 PM:
 
"Has anyone been able to confirm that the European version, the Somikron HD-XL, does have higher resolution?"

The Wolverine/Somikon machines all have a 3.53 megapixel CMOS camera chip with 2304x1536 resolution and the videos are recorded at 720p. The German retailer site seems to indicate that they are scanned at 1080 resolution, which well could be, but they are encoded to video at 720p 30fps

[ April 15, 2017, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Robert Hudson ]
 
Posted by Robert Hudson (Member # 3996) on April 22, 2017, 12:34 AM:
 
I have installed a cooling fan and some vents in my Wolverine - here's a short video:

COOLING FAN VIDEO
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on May 14, 2017, 08:44 PM:
 
To Robert Hudson: What kind of temperatures are you getting after installing the fan?
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on May 15, 2017, 03:30 PM:
 
I just received a new Wolverine, and probably thanks to Bob Hudson, I see that it now has vent slots on both the top and bottom of the rear cover. Have a fan on order anyway, can't hurt, and now it has slots to have the air come out of without my needing to drill vent holes.
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on May 17, 2017, 01:57 PM:
 
I just opened up the back of my new Wolverine in order to measure the belt & order spares as well as mount a 40mm cooling fan. Wolverine engineering has been paying attention --- the new model has no belt -- a small gear motor has replaced the belt drive. There is a little cooling fan mounted on the circuit board and vent holes on the rear cover. With nothing more to do, I closed it back up.
Happy to send pictures on request: ataplow@gmail.com

Alan Taplow
http://preserve-your-memories.info

======================================
 
Posted by Robert Hudson (Member # 3996) on May 17, 2017, 04:46 PM:
 
Alan: do you have a photo of the cooling fan? (By the way, these are very easy to open: remove the screws from the deep holes and that's it).

Here's the new vent holes in a photo someone brought to my attention today:

 -
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on May 17, 2017, 05:48 PM:
 
Some pix of inside of newer model:
Apparently my pix don't match forum standards, so you can download them at:
http://omlets.tripod.com/omnilucent/Wolv-fan.jpg
http://omlets.tripod.com/omnilucent/wolv-motor.jpg
http://omlets.tripod.com/omnilucent/wolv-assy.jpg

Alan Taplow
http://preserve-your-memories.info

======================================
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on May 21, 2017, 04:09 AM:
 
Hi Alan,

Your links above don't seem to work...

Cheers
 
Posted by Doug Stratton (Member # 5923) on May 25, 2017, 09:12 PM:
 
It was seeing this thread with some info on whats going on behind the shell of the Wolverine that prompted me to join the forums. I did not see it mentioned, but in the US the rather well known (mainly) catalog company Hammacher Schlemmer a few months ago offered their exclusive version of the machine (for all intent purposes it seems Wolverine made this for HS and this will explain why the HS has 2 features the normal version does not.

Pretty much 100% the same in all specs except that the HS version allows for 400 foot 7" reels and captures at 1440x 1080

They also charge an arm and a leg for this ($500.00), but I bought it. Like many I was very unsatisfied with the horrendous mp4 artifact noise this created to try and keep a smaller file size (3" reels come out to about 236 megs)

what also got me interested was the post from Alan Taplow. If indeed its actually true with the whole new inners design, I am more concerned if they finally lowered the compression giving a larger file size and better quality. That is what I need to know.

My unit heats up like Roberts and I too was thinking to mod it for a fan. The only thing stopping me was if they ever upgraded the firmware or something else to improve the overall quality. HS gives a life time guarantee so no matter how long goes by, if I am not happy I can return it which means I obviously can't modify the machine

You guys are also aware that you can just rebuild the mp4 container the video stream is in and change the frame rate OF THE container and therefore you do not have to re-encode the clip or loss any quality.

MP4 like MKV is a container file for many different formats. When you remux your video stream back into a new mp4 container- computer programs obey the info of the container and not the actual file inside. So our files are 30 frames per second but you made the mp4 file saying the framerate is 24 frames per second. All media players will obey this. Now instead of always changing the speed in a player (or if you bring it somewhere else) it will play the speed it should be with no re-encode and no quality loss---

here is how to rebuild the mp4 container and fix it to the proper framerate with no re-encoding and no quality loss

Below is the tool used (my mp4 box gui) which is free and you can get this at videohelp.com (also where I posted info about the HS scanner).

So if you want to fix your clips speed with no encoding and in 20 seconds or less- follow these steps below:

on here download and install my mp4box gui
https://www.videohelp.com/software/My-MP4Box-GUI

once installed open the program and you will see a box with 4 tabs you can choose (mux, demux, join and split)

1. click the demux tab and on the right side click "open" and now browse to any mp4 file made from the wolverine. It will then show the video track of that file and tell you its dimensions. Click the small box next to the video file it shows

2. Now hit "demux" (on the right). It will save a file in the same directory as your original mp4 video clip with a name something like "0021_track1.h264" That is actually the raw video stream from the mp4 file made by wolverine

3. with mp4box still open click the "mux" tab and on the right select "add" and browse to the demuxed track it just made (ex: 0021_track1.h264)

4. NOW on the bottom of the program box you will see an option on the left "FPS:"no change". Click that drop down box and select the proper framerate your film should be. Now hit "mux" and in like 4 seconds it will create a new mp4 file for you with a name like
0021_track1.h264-muxed.mp4

enjoy your proper speed clip-

This is the Hammacher machine with a 400 ft reel on it (Squirm, super 8 sound). Very similar to the Wolverine and upon first glance they look the same, but cosmetically a little different to allow the larger film reel. Sorry if the image is large

 -
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on May 25, 2017, 10:21 PM:
 
To reduce the heat problem on the older model Wolverine machines without cutting up the case and installing a fan, it should be possible to run it with the back removed to let the hot air out. Also, if that isn't enough, direct the airstream from a small household fan into the rear to keep the air circulating.
 
Posted by Barbara Strohl (Member # 5227) on May 26, 2017, 10:06 AM:
 
Alan,
Better than a household fan are these fans that overclockers use. They are computer fans with rubber shrouds that you attach or push up against openings in computer, or other electronics, case. I've used mine on various things. You just need any opening.

For more serious cooling I use a USB or battery fan with a frozen water bottle or ice pack behind it. Don't use open ice because the melted water is too much of a risk.
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on May 28, 2017, 11:12 AM:
 
The download for mp4Box-gui results in a file: https://www.videohelp.com/download-XqkqHdPR/My%20MP4Box%20GUI%20v0.6.0.6.7z

I can't seem to find any way to open this .7z file --- any other download which will result in a .zip or an application file which will open on most windows computers?
Alan
ataplow@gmail.com
 
Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 28, 2017, 04:21 PM:
 
Alan any of these apps will extract a .7z archive.

7zip (FREE)
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sevenzip/files/

WinRAR
http://www.win-rar.com/download.html?&L=0

WinZip
http://www.winzip.com/win/en/
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on June 12, 2017, 12:24 PM:
 
So far, I am pretty happy with this unit. I currently have a Moviestuff CineMate 20, which works great, but takes a lot of footprint. And my Moviestuff Workprinter XP has the same foorprint issue. So when I saw this Wolverine, I figured what the heck. I mostly like it because it has a smaller foorprint, even when I am doing 7" films and using my rewinds. I have to say that I am pretty much impressed with the output quality of this device. Probably as good as the Cinemate (after I edit the video in my Adobe, the differences are really impossible to distinguish).

One very pleasant surprise: it handled a film with sever VS (curly and does not lay flat). I had all but written this film off, despite its significance (footage of the F7F Tigercat aboard USS Kearsarge (CV-33) in 1948), as no projector I tried could even run this film. The Wolverine captured it almost perfectly, and the entire field is in focus, so the film is held very flat at the gate. I was not expecting that...

I haven't noticed a heating issue, yet. In the event I do, what size O-Ring has been found to be most effective?  -
 
Posted by Ty Reynolds (Member # 5117) on June 14, 2017, 02:52 PM:
 
Gary - The pulley belt path on the take-up side looks different than what I have seen on other modifications. Could you post a close-up photo?
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on June 14, 2017, 03:05 PM:
 
I will get a photo later, but it is very low tech. After playing with tandem reels and looped leader and whatnot, I discovered two things: ONE: I have a set of rewinds that only engage the gears and spindle when the crank is pushed in. TWO: a 7" rubber band (the type you buy at the supermarket that hold large trash bags to the trash can) makes a great drive belt. Since the rewind gears are not engaged, allowing the spindle to turn without any resistance (or wasting energy by turning the hand crank), the wear and tear on the rubber band seems minimal. I have done 13 full 7" reels now with the same rubber band, and it is not showing any signs of giving up.

I hope my attempt to describe this makes sense...  -
 -

[ June 15, 2017, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: Gary Schreffler ]
 
Posted by Doug Stratton (Member # 5923) on July 04, 2017, 06:12 PM:
 
Hey Alan,
Sorry for an almost 2 month reply. Normal life got very busy and I took a long break from the computer world

I was even thinking of doing a resin cast of the back cover to then fully modify. In my case because Hammacher offers a "for life" guarantee, the units cover has one more screw covered by a sticker under/around the memory card slot, and I would have to carefully peel this which I have not attempted yet. At the same time with the heat you can feel especiially around the memory card slot I could always say it heated it up enough to peel

Amazon had 2 external usb powered PC (5volt) type fans with a knob for speed adjust that would work well with this unit. One fan on the left side of the case to suck air in and the other fan with the opposite direction on the right to suck that air flow out. Course keeping the cover off with a full fan is ideal as well. I used to do that many, many years ago with an old PC video capture card I had.

I also have not used my machine since my post about it back in May. Really want to get some fan control working before I do or finding out that in addition to the case and internal design your newer version has if they actually lessened the compression of the final MP4, which would mean it now has better video quality (sent a PM with more info)

Also going to get it real sprocket rollers and swap them with the plastic ones these machines all come with
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on July 06, 2017, 05:34 AM:
 
Hi all,

For those interested in more information on The Wolverine and its use, post-production etc. I would like to share the channel of YouTuber Ron:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSIu1cyLMCNfuDJ9GGuUOVA

Cheers
 
Posted by Doug Stratton (Member # 5923) on July 10, 2017, 10:08 AM:
 
Was pleaseantrly surprised this morning. I finally took another shot at opening up my HS unit. The HS has 7 screws and what I thought was another screw behind the serial number sticker was just plastic. This time I sort of pulled it open by holding one of the plastic front sprockets.

However the biggest surprise was that it actually has a fan attached to the back cover!!! You would not think anything is there if you feel the heat on the back of this unit in use. Why they did not put in vent holes is completely beyond me. I also need to turn on the machine and make sure that fan works.

PS: I also spoke with Alan about his newer edtion of the wolverine and the firmware number is the same as the old meaning they may have revamped the internals but they did not touch or do anything with the compression

 -
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on July 10, 2017, 10:18 AM:
 
Hi Doug,

quote:
However the biggest surprise was that it actually has a fan attached to the back cover!!! You would not think anything is there if you feel the heat on the back of this unit in use. Why they did not put in vent holes is completely beyond me. I also need to turn on the machine and make sure that fan works.
The EU Market rebrand Somikon has a new backplate with vente holes!

 -

Cheers
 
Posted by Doug Stratton (Member # 5923) on July 10, 2017, 10:24 AM:
 
Hey Berend,
the newest version of the Wolverine (posted by Alan) also has vent holes, but at the time this HS unit was made, none of the other units even had a fan. Will just drill or dremel in some vent holes and thats it. Also going to take a look and see if another extension is free on the circuit board to hook in an additional fan
 
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on July 10, 2017, 12:03 PM:
 
I'm amazed to hear that something so new, (belts) would be melting so quivkly. However, not all the parts are necessarily as "new" as other parts on a "new" machine. I hope that you can replace those belt and have a perfectly workable machine, (if you have already addressed this, I apologize, as i didn't get to read all of the posts on this subject.) [Smile]
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on July 18, 2017, 11:41 AM:
 
I have been doing a lot of talking back and forth with the Wolverine technical people (a really good bunch of folks). I originally bought the belt-driven, non-vented back. I use it modified for 7" reels. I then sent it to them for evaluation, and they upgraded to the gear driven, vented back.

Interestingly, the gear-driven model performed miserably with the 7" setup. Constant slipping, chattering, machine turning off, etc., that made the conversion unviewable.

Wolverine then asked me to send the unit back to them for evaluation, and they subsequently advised that the gear driven units do not appear handle extra tension very well (the type of additional tension experienced with a 7" reel setup), so they have modified the unit again. Now back to belt-driven, but modified/improved over the first belt-driven iteration.

So I will now do robust testing with the latest model/improvement, and post the results here.
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on July 18, 2017, 12:01 PM:
 
Obviously a product still in development and not thoroughly tested before marketing it.
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on July 18, 2017, 12:07 PM:
 
I think it was well tested as designed. But for folks like me who modified it to handle 7" reels, we went beyond the design capability/specifications. To their credit, rather than just blow us off and say we are not using as designed, they have done a good job in listening and making it work in an environment to which it was not intended. So I guess I view that as darned good customer service, as many companies today would never have responded to my issues when I first brought them up. Or would have simply said outside the warranty, too bad...!!!
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on July 18, 2017, 01:31 PM:
 
4 weeks in and my wolverine scanner is broken.
the take up reel has stopped turning, lost all its power.
couple of emails to the tech support.
I have two choices, return to the seller Amazon or have them send me a new take up motor assembly from california.
It is now a separate motor and cog wheel system on the take up, Not an O ring.
I took the back off to check.
They are sending me spares and I will fix it myself.
No cooling fan in mine but I do have air vents.
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on July 18, 2017, 03:35 PM:
 
They need to make the unit more robust, incorporate forced air cooling, and make design changes so it can routinely handle at least 200ft reels without problems. Also incorporate software for 18 and 24fps scans. If this results in the price of the unit going up by an additional $100 or $200 so be it, they will still have an eager and ready market at that price.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on July 18, 2017, 04:30 PM:
 
quote:
Obviously a product still in development and not thoroughly tested before marketing it.
I have to agree to a certain extend

quote:
4 weeks in and my wolverine scanner is broken.
the take up reel has stopped turning, lost all its power.
couple of emails to the tech support.
I have two choices, return to the seller Amazon or have them send me a new take up motor assembly from california.

Mine took almost the same time to break down. I got a brand new deck for the exchange.

quote:
They need to make the unit more robust, incorporate forced air cooling, and make design changes so it can routinely handle at least 200ft reels without problems. Also incorporate software for 18 and 24fps scans. If this results in the price of the unit going up by an additional $100 or $200 so be it, they will still have an eager and ready market at that price.
This is exactly my sentiment. It's a great little device that serves my needs, but the engineering is somewhat poor. Using a post-production software to reduce the speed is of no importance to me.

The upcoming weeks I'll be batching some more 180 mtr reels. Keep you posted!

Cheers
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on July 19, 2017, 12:13 PM:
 
A Massive Thank You to Doug Stratton

I have just tried your software to bring my wolverine scans down to a better frame rate.
ABSOLUTE GENIUIS. quick. really good.

I chose 15fps which is a lot closer than the 30fps Wolverine spits out.
I tested it on a 50ft reel and it was done in seconds.

Very Many thanks. Highly reccommended!

Thank You to Doug Stratton

[ July 19, 2017, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on July 19, 2017, 12:51 PM:
 
regarding the dreaded MP4 issues and 30FPS speed, this from Wolverine:

"As for MP4 compression we tried our best to lessen the compression as much as possible with firmware. If we do more than that the MP4 files becomes unstable. We rely on a chip manufacturer that provide us with the camera module integrate with the processor. Therefore, very little we can do with firmware to change the hardware. Today there is no hardware that can do less than 30fps and for that reason we cannot offer a playback speed of 18 or 24fps."

I also like the freeware mentioned by Mr. Stratton, so I guess not a horrible issue...
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on July 19, 2017, 02:28 PM:
 
if I was to be real picky, I would like 18fps as a choice, but 15fps is a significant improvement over 30fps.

It is really quick as doing the task too, so it's the best solution for now. My customers will be very happy.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on July 19, 2017, 06:29 PM:
 
here is a picture of the wolverine, minus the O ring.
Mine has stopped taking up film.
A new motor assembly is on the way from california.
Lets hope it lasts longer than four weeks.
To date my scanner has done around fifty thousand feet and died...
The customer service is excellent, i have to say. new motor assembly in the post with in six hours.
 -
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on July 19, 2017, 06:38 PM:
 
I was about to spring for the Wolverine, but have decided to hold off for a few months in the hope that they will make some significant design improvements.
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on July 19, 2017, 06:39 PM:
 
I was about to spring for the Wolverine, but have decided to hold off for a few months in the hope that they will make some significant design improvements.
 
Posted by Malcolm John Toye (Member # 4474) on July 20, 2017, 04:19 AM:
 
I also received my Wolverine in May and also had the wheel assembly stop turning .I believe the gear assembly keeps missing sprockets and has finally stopped turning .Wolverine service seems very good and will be sending a new wheel assembly for me to repair myself . I am very pleased with the results I was getting far better than copying from a projected image and definitely better than the Cine to Video service I had done professionally many years ago.I have found using a Cine Editor as the supply reel and an old Cinrex variable projector at its slowest speed copies my 7 inch reels ok .I do not need to use the Wolverine take up reel at all.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on July 20, 2017, 11:50 AM:
 
very interested to hear it is not only my scanner that has failed on the take up spool.
I did think they were very quick to send me a new assembly so they must be aware of the problem.
I will be interested to see if the new assembly is identical.
I have some 6x200ft and 4 x400ft reels to get through. that will push it to the limit...
I will post an update and photo when the new parts arrive
 
Posted by Kurt Froberg (Member # 5922) on July 20, 2017, 04:33 PM:
 
Mike said: "if I was to be real picky, I would like 18fps as a choice, but 15fps is a significant improvement over 30fps."

You can actually choose ANY frame rate you wish if you do this little change in My MP4Box: Under "View", choose "Edit Command Line". When you start Mux, you can choose Fps=15, you will see a new window with the actual command line which you can edit where you see the fps=15 you just change the numbers from 15 to 18 (or 24 or whatever), the press "Copy and Run".

Hope this helps
Kurt
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on July 20, 2017, 07:19 PM:
 
The good news here is that Wolverine seems to be very responsive to customers problems. Hopefully that will be reflected in a robust upgrade of what appears to be an excellent performing product at a great price.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on July 21, 2017, 02:32 AM:
 
Thank you SO much Kurt
Next time I use it I will try this out.
Most helpful of you to point that out to me.
Not something I would have otherwise known.
 
Posted by Doug Stratton (Member # 5923) on July 23, 2017, 02:05 PM:
 
Overall glad the mp4box trick worked for many of you.

I do disagree with Wolverines claim about not being able to lessen the compression of the chip due to stability. They could easily lower it at least another 10-15% and that would help as well. Right now (assumed) it clearly is at a 30-50% compressed. Sometimes the images almost gives a digital sheen that you would have otherwise seen in 1990's early FMV (full motion video).

They could have also allowed you to use the PC to capture and then not worry about any mp4 nonsense

I also found out that my HS version was updated to include vent holes but I am not sure about the internals yet
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on July 24, 2017, 03:34 AM:
 
Hi Doug,

quote:
They could have also allowed you to use the PC to capture and then not worry about any mp4 nonsense
I fully agree on this biggest (flaw) disadvantage for this - otherwise - very nice product for the $!

Cheers
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on July 25, 2017, 10:21 AM:
 
 -
new motor arrived today
 
Posted by Malcolm John Toye (Member # 4474) on July 25, 2017, 10:49 AM:
 
Mike ,Is the Motor and Gear assembly the same as your faulty one ? I hope it is not going to malfunction every couple of months and require replacement.?
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on July 26, 2017, 09:29 AM:
 
I hope to swap them out thursday or friday so I will report back with some photos.
I too, hope this motor will last longer, I have just been given around 3000ft to scan!
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on July 27, 2017, 01:50 AM:
 
old motor on the left, new motor on the right.
I was hoping they would send a new take up clutch assembly too, as that feels quite tight.
I shall run a scan today and see what happens altho I am not full of hope
 -
 
Posted by Peter Scott (Member # 4541) on August 03, 2017, 06:58 AM:
 
Hello Mike
Did the new take up motor cure your problem ?
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 03, 2017, 07:22 AM:
 
Mike,

I'm in the middle of this awful issue too, so as Peter said could you please share some more detailed feedback on the new motor and if you had any communications about the clutch yet. Thanks.

Cheers
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 04, 2017, 04:44 AM:
 
with the new motor I have scanned around 1600ft and so far so good.

I have decided not to use the 'rewind' function on the machine, I am doing that using my projector, the rewind function was pathetic in the first place using the wolverine.

When you see the size of the take up motor, it's quite obvious that it is not sufficient to rewind a 200ft reel tightly enough or evenly enough, glaring error on the part of wolverine imo.

Rewound films were really loose on the reel, as the tension is not good enough on the wolverine rewind, so putting more strain on the take up is not something I want to do, let alone put up with loose rewinds.

I have also only been scanning two 200ft per day, rather than non stop back to back scanning, with some crazy idea if I don't push it too hard, it might just last. Of course, that should not be the case, it should be capable of running all day long.

I am tempted to open it up and see if the new motor has begun to leak black goo as the first one did, I may look over the weekend.

I have little faith in the machine right now and am expecting it to break down again, but that's just me and machines.

I have around 900ft to go on my current project so if it breaks down again I will let you know, but for now, it's working.

I was expecting a new clutch with the new motor, but they only sent a motor, and as I say, so far so good... but I'm yet to be convinced until I take a peek inside, which I may do this weekend.

I'll let you know the moment it fouls up, or I open it up for a look at the new motor.

I sent a photo of the old motor back to wolverine in california, they thanked me for that, they do seem helpful enough, but if and when this new motor fouls up and I contact them for a third motor, I hope they will still be as kind!

As I say, it is working as expected, but if a machine of mine breaks down when it is so new, it takes me a long time to regain faith in it again......

If you are interested in my scanning results, you can find me at youtube by searching for 'Mike Spice HMS Ark Royal' at you tube and there you will find my old movie junk, old Royal Navy 8mm from the 70's of mine and some clips of other folks films that I am charging £2 per 50ft reel for.

You can also find a link to my 'Super 8 Rescue' facebook group from the youtube page, where you can see in depth video tutorials and samples of my customers films and general tech stuff about my hobby.

[ August 04, 2017, 06:04 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 04, 2017, 10:36 AM:
 
Hi Mike,

Thanks for your reply and further feedback, appreciated. I've also never used the rewind option. I do it manual because a) I'm not sure it will work on the Somikon in the first place b) don't want to use a projector. I use my Erno viewer and the Somikon together, change the full reel from the right to the left side, line up the film and gently rotate the reel on the viewer to rewind the film back to the original reel. Only the two (far right and far left side) rollers in the viewer are used because I don't set it to editing modus of course.

 -

I'm not sure when using a projector, it will rewind the film better in a sense of tightness. I now touch the reel on the Somikon gently to make sure it has a bit of pull force. Am I correct in my assumption?

Mike, thanks for your links to Facebook and Youtube. I'll have a visit.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 04, 2017, 10:41 AM:
 
I am currently looking at some viewers on flea bay so I too can do a manual rewind.

I move the full reel from the take up on the wolverine, to the feed spool, and rewind back to the projector, applying the slightest pressure to keeps things taught.

My old Eumig is not very good these days so it too tends to slow to a crawl on rewind, I would sooner put the pressure on the projector than the wolverine however.

I'll be glad when I find a movie viewer with nice winding arms on it!
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on August 05, 2017, 01:34 PM:
 
Hi people,

I'm quite new to the forum - in fact, this is my first post. I've been laying around for the past 3 months, since I registered, though.

Well, the thing is that I put my hands into one of these machines. I find the quality is more than OK for the price, but I'm a bit disappointed with the software functions. As many of you have already said, I would have expected things like:

- A computer-controller operation mode (this way each frame could be, for instance, saved directly to the hard disk and we could choose the output format; for instance, lossless png, etc).

- Ability to choose between 24 or 18 fps on the output file. I find nonsensical and very annoying we have to do it afterwards.

- Fine-tuning options on the machine itself like choosing different output resolutions, different formats and, the most important one, DIFFERENT bitrates/compression. I notice a lot of compression on the generated files.

- Better zooming options, allowing to capture even the registration holes if we wanted to, to crop them during postprecessing if we wanted to.

- Better brightness, contrast, gamma, tint and those all functions.

Now here it goes the main reason of my post: getting a better firmware.
I already exchanged some emails with Wolverine support (they were very kind); they told me "it's impossible to set the frame rate on the machine to 24fps because 30fps is the less that the chip can deliver" (a statement that I would label, in the best case, as "incorrect" - a claim that, simply, cannot be upheld), and even asked them if they could make some source code available in order for us to improve it. I'm a computer engineer and believe that I could make some improvements I had access to it. Unfortunately, they replied is closed-source. Althought they sent me a newer firmware version:

20170511-ZS04 (file: FWDV180N.bin) (Please let me know if it's ok to share the firmware and I'll post it in case anyone is interested)

It's a bit strange, because my machine was bought the past month and it came with a far older version (20170215-ZS02). Anyway, I haven't still tested it because I'm afraid of losing some features and not being able to roll back to the previous version (I don't know how to make a backup of the current one).

The interesting thing was that now I had a firmware in my hands and, thus, something that we could potentially "reverse engineer" in order to "retouch" some function here and there.

Please, don't misunderstand me: reverse ingeneering a firmware is a very difficult task and I don't have the necessary knowledge to ever do so. My biggest ambition was to find some flag that could change, for instance, the default FPS to 24 by looking at the file with a hexadecimal editor. Or, to say it more properly, find someone who could do so.

And this is what it happened: by inspecting the file I found the string "NT96650". We know the machine has a NovaTek chip because that's what appeared the first time I connected it to my computer. So some googling for these strings produced interested results.

The funny thing is that the chip appears to be used on a wide range of those car cams people uses to record their travels (specially in Russia?) and that it has already a huge base fan and they are already hacking their firmwares for better functionallity.

The site https://www.goprawn.com has a section for NovaTek cams, and there, on the first 4 sticky posts, there are a bunch of tools for customizing NovaTek firmwares!

So this is what I did:

- I used bnGui, "Load firmware", it successfully recognized it, -> "unpack", and got an un packed .rbn file.

- Then I opened it with NtkMPE, and... Bang! A list of valid video modes, with different resolutions, fps and bitrates is available!

 -

You can see the last one is our old friend 960x720, @ 30 fps and 9000 kbps bitrate.

And then I ended the investigation process because I have yet to figure out how does this work. I can edit the width, height, fps and bitrate settings, so I bet it would work if I change them to any valid combination. What is a valid combination? Any of the ones that appear in the list? Or any that is known to be hardcoded inside the chip?

Also the highest 1440x720 resolution from our European companion is available there.

I've seen captures of this list for those car cams and they have set up them to very esotheric combinations, with very high fps and bitrate settings. So I don't see the problem setting fps to 24.

I made modifications to that file and saved it successfully. Anyway, haven't been able to repack it into a proper .bin firmware files. But in case I had it, I'm not sure if I would attempt ruining my machine by flashing it with an unproper firmware...

I plan to get in touch with the programmers to see it the tools could be used with our machines, also.

More to come...
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 05, 2017, 02:00 PM:
 
Really Interesting Pere.

I wasn't even aware one could upgrade the firmware on the wolverine machines, or how to.... I have no idea what FW is on my machine......

I just take it at default settings and put the focus on sharp.
I am reasonably happy with my results.

I think hoping for so many more features is asking a bit much of a machine at this price point however nice it would be to have.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 05, 2017, 02:58 PM:
 
Hi Pere,

Wow! a great find and thank you so much for your work and sharing your findings here on the forums! There are a few members (me included) with the Somikon HD-XL you mentioned and indeed the compression is one of the downsides of these both products. Also I would like to have a much better and more configurable firmware.

I'm accustomed with reversed engineering only as an end-user - not tech savy at all - and I flashed a tweaked Mac EFI ROM from the original GTX-680 Mac Edition to GTX-680 PC version. Much cheaper and more available! ;-)

So I really believe in the route you're taking now, after your discovery and I do hope so that the tech support of Wolverine is able/willing to help you. That would be really great.

Good luck with your quest and keep us posted!
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 06, 2017, 06:26 AM:
 
Simple to find the FW version in the menu, silly me...

For information, my Wolverine was purchased via the Amazon website, in the UK, delivered from Singapore in early July 2017

FW Version on mine: 20170310DN08EN
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on August 07, 2017, 10:31 AM:
 
Hi people!

Well, noting down our firmware versions is important, as well as our "hardware versions", because probably the same firmware won't work at the same time for the step-motor version and for the belt one, possibly rendering the machine unusable by flashing it with wrong firmware!

Anyway, I've come to a dead end: I understand what I have to do to fit the modifications inside a new firmware file, but it's the program what's failing now. It hangs when trying to "pack" the file, and there's nothing I can do to solve it. Theoretically the source code for this utility is available but I have to yet find it, and also I don't have the knwoledge to implement the proper modifications. I contacted the author regarding this issue both by a private message and by a forum topic reply here and here; now I'm waiting for a reply that who know when will it come, if ever...

Suggestions welcome, as always!
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 08, 2017, 08:15 AM:
 
Hi Pere,

Thanks again for all your work. Please keep us posted.

If only I knew how to, I'd surely lend a hand here! [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 08, 2017, 08:28 AM:
 
At the risk of tempting fate, I have just finished the last reel of my current project for a customer.

The new motor has scanned 2675ft over the last week.
All seems to be fine...

I really do believe that not using the wolverine to do any rewinds has made a difference.

That little motor is not up to rewinding, the temptation to apply finger pressure during the rewind to get a tighter wind, and often giving the winding spool a helping hand, no doubt, put undue strain on what is basically a toy motor.

It is fine for the scanning process but from my experience I would encourage anyone with a wolverine, to find an alternative rewind method, as I and others, have done.

I just have 2 400ft reels of my own to do, so let's hope I am not tempting fate and facing a third motor!

[ August 08, 2017, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on August 09, 2017, 03:19 PM:
 
There are great news about modifying our firmware...

Tobi@s, the genius behind those hacking tools, kindly replied to my messages and yesterday he released a version of his software that will do the job with ours. It's amazing! I was so tired that I wasn't able to play with it; let's see if today I'm able to do so before I fall asleep...

In the meantime, for the brave people out there, you can try by yourself. And don't forget to say "thanks" to Tobi@s! this is the link to the forum post.

Finally, I made another discovery I have yet to play with. I read here and there different file names for putting the machine in "engineering mode", tried some and this one seemed to work.

If you place an empty file named "engmode", without extension, in your SD card and turn on the machine, when you start the Wolverine, once the logo disappears, the screen is put into a red background and some messages appear:

"jpg size is too big or too"

"update logo2 failed"

"cfg file error: Open"

Then it turns off again.

Obviously it's trying to do something. I would be have if I could make a backup of my existing firmware before doing anything...
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 09, 2017, 03:47 PM:
 
That's great news indeed. But as you stated, no mods before you have a virgin back-up of the original firmware. I hope the genius can help you further. Thanks again for sharing your endeavour.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 10, 2017, 03:16 AM:
 
interesting stuff Pere.
I shall leave mine well alone for the time being as I have around 15 50ft rolls to scan for someone.
Watching your hacking stories with great interest, good luck!
 
Posted by Kurt Froberg (Member # 5922) on August 10, 2017, 04:34 AM:
 
Hello all, I am quite new to this forum.
I am following this thread with great interest. I bought the Somikon machine a few months ago and have only just tested to get a decent quality from the machine. Any improvements of the compression of the picture would be welcome. I have tried using the Neat video plugin in my editing software (Vegas Pro 13) for reducing the digital noise with some success. I have also adjusted the focus of the lens since it was not really focused from factory. This is my second Somikon, the first one suffered from bad jitter / jumping picture and bad take up spool. Is anyone here using the new Reflecta Super 8 + scanner? I have searched the web for any reviews or user comments but not found any so far.
/Kurt
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on August 10, 2017, 07:15 PM:
 
I just want to announce that I tried my first firmware modification, with about 10x bitrate, 1440x1080 and 24fps, and I failed miserably. The file isn't flashed into the machine. The original update firmware file they provided me gets correctly written using the same instructions.

I have yet to repeat the process to discard any potential mistakes, and also there are still some other options available that could work.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 11, 2017, 04:04 AM:
 
good luck. I hope your experiments don't write off your machine.
I wouldn't have a clue where to begin!

My scanner is still chugging away. I have been sent 15 50ft reels and the motor is still holding out.
 
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 11, 2017, 10:57 AM:
 
We just watched (in order to sell it) the Orson Welles version of Treasure Island. Still looks great!
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 11, 2017, 12:15 PM:
 
quote:
We just watched (in order to sell it) the Orson Welles version of Treasure Island. Still looks great!
Yep, for sure we will find out where to look and how to use the goodies! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 11, 2017, 03:25 PM:
 
without wishing to offend anyone, this thread is about the wolverine scanner, not orson wells films.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 12, 2017, 06:51 AM:
 
Hi Mike, I think @Osi only made a joke about our quest to find the diy treasure goodies for the Wolverine and Somikon scanners. At least that's my interpretation of his off-topic post [Wink]
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on August 12, 2017, 02:38 PM:
 
Sorry people, now I've really come to a dead end [Frown] . I've tried every possibly recipe I could attemp to "cook" our custom firmware and failed. The machine would simply not attempt to flash the image (althought something is recognized as the machine won't start when I put the file on the SD card).

Also my machine is now flashed with the updated firmware version they sent me, and there's no bitrate difference on the generated files (in fact, with the same captured footage, this time it's a few bits lower). I don't notice any differences, in part because I didn't play enough with the old firmware to see any. I could play with crop and zoom settings a lot so I even captured half of the registration holes (it's regular 8 footage), unveiling a significant % of the image that was hidden until now and that to me suits better for 16:9 cropping. But that was probably available also on the previous firmware version.

Also the "border" on the registration holes area looks like a very thick black line. It looks to me like if the resolution was in fact fake - could it be that it was an interpolated resolution, thus the output resolution was in fact much lower than the announced CCD/CMOS chip one? Hmm...

Sorry to be this deceiving... [Frown]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 13, 2017, 06:34 AM:
 
don't apologise. you have been doing some very interesting work indeed.
I admire your efforts to try and change things with the firmware [Smile]
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 13, 2017, 06:40 AM:
 
Hi Pere,

I agree, no need to apologize at all! You've done an amazing job so far trying to find and how to DIY upgrade the firmware. I hope my efforts regarding my e-mail to Somikon will have some - if any - result.
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on August 13, 2017, 07:30 AM:
 
Well, some minutes ago I got some "partial" success thanks to new instructions I got from the firmware tools author! [Eek!] [Eek!]

Don't get too excited: it doesn't work. The machine got flashed! That's the good news. But then the machine can't operate, appart from the scanner light being turned on.

The good thing is that it can be flashed back to it's original firmware, so no harm done.

I was able to make a simple test using these tools where I simply unpacked the image and repacked it again without modification - the machine detected it as a valid firmware and flashed it, but again, it was non-functional. So this leads to the conclussion that the problem is not with my modifications, but the tools that are generating the firmware image. I'm going to pass this info (along with a more technical one) to the creator of the tools. We are in his hands again [Wink] . But hopefully it is a minor modification he is able to do for us [Smile]

In the meantime, I've uploaded my first and only capture with the wolverine to this moment:

https://youtu.be/e_O5HESFlqQ

It's a one-minute minute from a home recording I bought at a flea market for 1 €; God knows how it ended there! This is Spain in the mid-60's or first 70's, judging by the car model (Seat 600). The car plate belongs to Alicante, so it was probably shoot in a town near there.

I applied a lot of zoom out so I even captured the registration holes. This is regular 8 mm footage, so a lot of visual information is discarded if you crop it to 4:3. I used MP4Box to change framerate to 18 fps (althought I can't be sure if that's the proper one) and applied a simple color filter because the original capture looked far more washed and with a bluish tint. On the top left corner you can notice that I also applied a "logo remove" filter to test if I could diminish the registration hole lack of information.
This was done in seconds with the filters that AVIDemux ships by default, so please don't be too hard! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 13, 2017, 07:53 AM:
 
Hi Pere,

Thanks for your update! Firmware-modding can be a real PITA as you've seen last week. I hope your flash-man will be able to accommodate you with the proper files to upgrade your Wolverine.

When seeing a 8mm home movie that was bought by an unanimous 3rd party, I always wonder who those peoples are and what has become of them. Thanks for sharing. Are you willing to share this RAW footage with me - sending me the original non modified mp4 file - so I can compare it with the RAW footage I get from my Somikon? Thanks in advance.

Enjoy your Sunday afternoon!
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on August 13, 2017, 09:46 AM:
 
Sure Robert! Here it goes:

https://mega.nz/#!dW4zlLwA!WYg2tq_SDd8yUrJlIa5635Fvw4s_BPO2WegYgZqXuP4

My thoughts about the people who appear in the footage are the same. I even put the plate number on the Youtube description; who knows? I wish it could be broadcasted and any of the starring persons watched it.

By the way, I'm on vacation! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 13, 2017, 12:12 PM:
 
Keep up the excellent work on the firmware Pere.
Really interesting.
I enjoyed your film clip too, I have subscribed to your channel and look forward to seeing more clips from you.

my understanding is regular 8mm is usually 16fps
while super 8 silent 18fps and sound 24fps.

I have been making my regular8mm at 15fps with mp4box.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 13, 2017, 12:20 PM:
 
Hi Mike,

AFAIK normal 8mm and/or Super 8mm is commonly shot @ 18 fps or 24 fps. In post-production I convert all from 30 fps to 18fps (factor 0.6) because of my assumption that 18 fps was by far the most used - time/cost effective - speed by most filmers.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 14, 2017, 07:45 AM:
 
quote:
By the way, I'm on vacation! [Big Grin]
Have a great time and enjoy! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 14, 2017, 10:24 AM:
 
AND ANOTHER FAILURE!

This time the take up spindle clutch has seized up and thus causing the motor to judder like an old bus.

Email sent to Wolverine, so we shall just have to wait and see.
let's hope they send me a new one, as they did with the motor...

I should add, having opened it up again, the replacement motor still seems fine...no sign of gunk oozing out..

 -
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 14, 2017, 03:06 PM:
 
Mike, sorry to read about your machine failing AGAIN! Wow, a buyer needs to stress their nerves big time. What a pity still...
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 14, 2017, 03:35 PM:
 
a great shame, but thankfully I have completed my 'paid scanning'
Lets see how Wolverine Data respond to this fault....
That will be the make or break.
I have until 21 sept to take this up with Amazon, Until then, I am happy to see how Wolverine data deal with it.

It is not easy technology to get right, I am disapointed, but I am not angry or heartbroken, yet...

The problem is trying to make a take up reel do two jobs, clutch feed take up from the film gate, and rewind.... tricky problem to solve at this price point...
 
Posted by Doug Stratton (Member # 5923) on August 14, 2017, 09:30 PM:
 
Amazing stuff going on here !! I unfortunately sent my Hammacher Schlemmer version back to them for a refund. I am pretty glad I did not end up drilling air vents in it. In the short time I had mine since Feb, Wolverine already had 2 major internal revisions. The HS version reflected this as well. Why on Earth would I want to pay 500$ (what the HS sells for) for a machine thats more so "a work in progress" and poorly tested?

I am going to wait a good year or so and hopefully by that point they will have down a final solid design and possibly better menu/control internals. Then again if the wonderful fimrware MOD gets perfected I wont have to worry so much about Wolverines internal settings
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 15, 2017, 01:25 PM:
 
24 hours later a response from wolverine:

how many feet of film have you scanned?

I said 10,000 feet altho I am not sure, probably 7000 ft.

The reply came back that they wanted to charge me $20 for the new take up assembly.

I pointed out that the machine has now failed twice in less than two months and perhaps I should take the matter up with amazon, who I purchased thro.

I also pointed out that I take great care of the scanner, I never use it rewind and it runs less than 6 hours a day..

I am now being sent the new part for free, after the 'engineers test it thoroughly to make sure it won't fail'

yikes..... not overly happy, I am tempted to try and get my money back thro' amazon, but I do like having the ability to scan 8mm film and charge a small amount of pocket money for it!
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 21, 2017, 03:56 AM:
 
Hi Mike, please let us know about the outcome, thanks

quote:
The reply came back that they wanted to charge me $20 for the new take up assembly.
Are they out of their minds? [Eek!]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 21, 2017, 04:48 AM:
 
a new take up assembly has left california and is in transit.
free of charge.

Apparently they have tested it to make sure it won't seize up like the original

I intend to take the seized up assembly in to my work, where I can call on a technician to take it apart.

Taking it apart involves two small circlips, if I try and remove them I know they will fly off and never be seen again... perhaps we can find out why the original assembly seized up...
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 21, 2017, 04:52 AM:
 
Hi Mike, that's a great idea to take it apart and get it reviewed by technicians. Thanks for your input.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 23, 2017, 08:15 AM:
 
The new take up assembly arrived.

Fitted today but it looks like I made the mistake of thinking it was the take up clutch, when it actually appears to be the motor again..

I have made a video of the problem, along with the repair I did this morning, but it is still not working as it should do.

Right now I have a two month old $400 paper weight.

I have emailed the link of the video to Wolverine Data and will not hold my breath for too long to see what they say in reaction...

If you would like to see my repair and my current problem here is a link to the video

Mike Spice You Tube
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 23, 2017, 11:52 AM:
 
I decided to open up the original wolverine motor to have a look and see if there was an obvious reason for it's failure.

wolverine original motor, fail.
 
Posted by Daniel D. Teoli Jr. (Member # 6043) on August 23, 2017, 02:15 PM:
 
I had 2 Wolverines. They produce a low quality image. They are easy to use. They are cheap $ and built to be disposables.

My first one lasted about 21 reels. At about 18 reels it started to squeal terribly. Then it started to jam up and wrecked some sprocket holes at rel #22.

I returned it for an exchange. The next one lasted less. I gave up on them. If you can use a low grade image for cheap money and are lucky enuf to get one that works they seem like an interesting prospect.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 23, 2017, 03:10 PM:
 
Hi Mike, thanks for the video, I'll forward the link to Somikon as well presuming you would mind. I never dared to open it up, afraid losing my warranty. Daniel has a point, but still I don't agree to accept the quality for the euros, because 400 isn't sort of pocket money, at least for me.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 24, 2017, 02:52 AM:
 
Berend you are welcome to use the video in any way you choose.

It turns out I have made a mistake. Wolverine looked at my video and came back to me to point out I have not re greased the grey gear wheels on the take up.

This morning I will go out and get some grease, that is surely my fault/stupidity for not doing that.

For the frame Jitter they have suggested a quarter turn unscrew on the metal plate in the gate.

Give them due for offering advice, and I will try and report back in a day or two.

I had two choices at my first fail, there are no service centres outside the USA.

Return to Amazon for a new machine, and probably face the same problem again.

Get in touch with Wolverine and see what can be done.

I chose to get in touch with Wolverine who sent me a new motor for free which I am able to fit.

Second fail, they have sent me another part, for free, half way around the planet.

credit it to them for that, altho I now fear that is the end of my free servicing! lol....

The image quality may not best the best, but at least I have my films saved now.

The machine cost me £300 (around $380) and my films would have cost me around the same price to have them scanned by someone else. So far I have made around £230 scanning films for other people so the machine has almost paid for itself now.

I shall continue with wolverine, the actual scanning mech seems up to the job, it is the take up section that seems to be the weak link in the chain.

I knew there was a risk buying this machine, I looked at online reviews, videos at you tube and advice from another user and reading at this forum, but I chose to go ahead and buy it, while I am dissapointed I am not going to slag off Wolverine or Winait (the people who actually make these devices)
It's clear to see the machine is evolving, the original O ring is gone, my version now has a cooling fan and gear driven take up, and they have given me good support and advice.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 29, 2017, 04:35 PM:
 
Mike, I just visited your YT channel. What video editor are you using? I'm getting great results removing the dust and scratches with the Neat Video v4 plug-in.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 30, 2017, 07:14 AM:
 
I've made no attempt to clean up my pictures in edit.
I am happy with them the way they are....

In the same manner, I quite like the clicks and pops from my 1960's vinyl.

I have a choice of edit software I can use, from moviePlus X6, Imovie and FCP

My 'go to' for speed and ease is MoviePlus x6 on my everyday laptop
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 30, 2017, 07:37 AM:
 
I understand of course, I was just curious what your editing program is and if you made any - if so how - attempts to clean-up the output of the scanner. Thanks for your reply.
 
Posted by Kurt Froberg (Member # 5922) on August 31, 2017, 06:25 AM:
 
Hi all,
I mentioned in an earlier post that I have adjusted the lens focus on my Somikon since I thought the pictures looked too soft with the preset focus from factory. I also read on the Filmshooting forum about this problem and how it could be improved. I have now made a short video to show the difference between the preset focus and my adjusted. You really need to connect the machine to a big screen or TV to be able to adjust the focus properly.
Here is the video https://youtu.be/POOHxe7dt3M

I wonder how many machines out there that are poorly focused?

Kurt
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 31, 2017, 07:45 AM:
 
it would be helpful to know how to manually adjust the focus
 
Posted by Kurt Froberg (Member # 5922) on August 31, 2017, 08:18 AM:
 
To get access to the focusing ring on the camera lens you have to dismantle the machine back and front cover INCLUDING snapping off the touch panel (you won't get the front cover off without doing that!). There is some locking glue on the lens ring but with some gentle force it will loosen.
I have now modified mine machine with enlarged the hole in the front cover to be able to reach the focusing ring without taking the machine apart again. Yes I know that the warranty now is gone...
Hope this helps.
Kurt
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 31, 2017, 08:57 AM:
 
thanks Kurt, Wow, that is some 'MOD' [Smile]
My warranty is long gone on the Wolverine as I have had to replace the motor and take up assembly myself due to there being no service centers outside of the USA and I am in europe.

I have now greased the gears and adjusted the gate screws on my Wolverine as per the instructions from Wolverine Data.

I am sorry to say nothing has changed, the machine is still useless and I have sent a link of the video which demonstrates the problem, and a very strongly worded complaint to Wolverine Data in California.

I really am beginning to regret buying this peice of junk now..

Greased up Wolverine scanner still not working!
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on August 31, 2017, 09:27 AM:
 
Hi Kurt, thank you for sharing your modification! Could you please share some photos if this DIY mod? So if I understand correctly, you did not use the firmware menu settings - high-mid-low - for sharpness in any of these samples? I looks amazing, great job!

Mike, your story is horrible and I'm sorry to hear that your scanner has become useless! Wow, what can I say more. Please keep us updated on the feedback from your supplier.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 31, 2017, 09:47 AM:
 
As well as complaining to Wolverine Data I have now filed a return with Amazon and Winait who supplied the machine.
If I can get my money back, I will.

I will keep you updated, but I am unlikely to hear anything for a few days.
 
Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on August 31, 2017, 10:06 AM:
 
Hi Mike,
So sad to hear about your wolverine,
I emailed Winait the builders of these machines, they`re reply was
that they build the Somikon, Wolverine, Winait, etc. All these machines have the same works so it appears it depends on your luck.
Well I was going to get a Somikon, because of the 7" reel caperbility, having done a lot of reserch online, it seems your better of setting up some sort of gismo to taks 7" reels, anyway that`s of no use to you now, needless to say I will not be going ahead with any purchess now.
Regards,
James.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 31, 2017, 11:09 AM:
 
within an hour of my stroppy "im going to amazon for a refund" email I am told they are now going to send me a second new motor and new gears

I have to give them credit, they are very good at sending out free parts, so I will accept thier kind offer and see what happens this time!

I think sending them the video to actually see and hear the problem will have helped too
 
Posted by Kurt Froberg (Member # 5922) on August 31, 2017, 01:29 PM:
 
Hi Berend,
Here are some photos I took when I did the refocusing of the optical lens on the Somikon HD-XL scanner. I also enlarged the opening in the front cover for the lens so I am now able to set the focus without remantling the unit again.

Here is the machine with the front cover taken off. The camera lens can be seen in the middle of the picture.

 -

Here is a close up of the lens. There is some locking glue on the lens, but it is quite easy to brake the locking.

 -

You must snap off the touch button panel to take off the front cover!

 -

Here is how I enlarged the hole for the camera lens to be able to adjust the focus when the machine is assembled. I simply filed up the round hole in the plastic a little when I had the front cover away.

 -
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on August 31, 2017, 01:41 PM:
 
Hey Kurt, many thanks for the photos. Really interesting.

Are you not worried now you have cracked the sealant on the lens, that it could drift out of focus during a scan, due to the machine vibrating?

Also, are you worried about more stray light getting in to the lens with a larger opening?

I usually stand a peice of card in front of my gate area during scanning to stop stray light getting in...

thanks for sharing the photos, not sure I am prepared to do that to my wolverine even tho your images do look better with a manual re focus, altho the exposure does look slightly different/brighter on the re focused image, as well as sharper.

Is the brighter exposure because of the video edit or did you change it in the scan?
 
Posted by David Hollandsworth (Member # 3805) on August 31, 2017, 02:54 PM:
 
Been using this unit for a number of months. Have probably done several dozen reels of film and am pleased enough with it. My problem is that every now and then, the unit will just stop when recording. It did it several times one day several months ago and then never had a problem until today when it did it again 3 or 4 times before running fine. Anyone else have this issue?
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 01, 2017, 02:16 AM:
 
The only time mine has stopped is when it hit a broken sprocket or bad tape splice. When that has happened I have just pulled the film to the right of the gate until it picks up and continues.

When you say yours stopped, do you mean it powered down, or perhaps the film stopped moving but the machine appeared to be running, or has it stopped capturing and the motor shut down?
 
Posted by Kurt Froberg (Member # 5922) on September 01, 2017, 02:16 AM:
 
Hi Mike,
"Are you not worried now you have cracked the sealant on the lens, that it could drift out of focus during a scan, due to the machine vibrating?"
The lens has sufficiant friction so I don´t think it will move due to vibrations.

"Also, are you worried about more stray light getting in to the lens with a larger opening?"
That could perhaps be an issue in some cases, but I have used the machine in a fairly dark room.

Kurt
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 01, 2017, 02:19 AM:
 
Thanks Kurt, you have given me something to think about. I went back and looked at some of my scans and I agree that the focus doesn't appear to be as sharp as it could...
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on September 01, 2017, 02:28 AM:
 
Hi Kurt, thanks you very much for your DIY photos, appreciated! My 3rd new Somikon will arrive next week. I find your tweak very interesting, so I'll follow this with great interest.
 
Posted by David Hollandsworth (Member # 3805) on September 01, 2017, 08:32 AM:
 
By stopping, I mean it just quits advancing. Everything else is on and I can see the image on the screen.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on September 01, 2017, 08:59 AM:
 
Hi David, you mean the takeon - rightside of your deck?
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 01, 2017, 10:31 AM:
 
Hi David, so is the film getting stuck because of damaged sprockets or bad splices or stopping on good film for no reason?

if you gently pull the film to the right of the gate, will it carry on scanning?

There are two little white tabs in the gate path, have you made sure the sprocket side of the film is tucked under those as you thread up the film and close the gate?
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on September 02, 2017, 04:25 PM:
 
quote:
Mike - There are two little white tabs in the gate path, have you made sure the sprocket side of the film is tucked under those as you thread up the film and close the gate?
I agree that this is probably the reason for your issue.
 
Posted by Kurt Froberg (Member # 5922) on September 05, 2017, 05:30 AM:
 
The Somikon and Wolverine suffer as we know from quite heavy digital compression with quite strong digital noise. I think however you can improve the results quite much with some post production in an editing software. I use Sony Vegas Pro 13 and I made this short video clip to show what can be done to enhance the picture using the software. I have the Neat Video plugin for noise reduction which is quite amazing, though it costs in the full version around 125 USD. There is a free trial of it with some limitations. A little bit of stabilization and sharpening is also applied in Vegas.
I made the video with split screen so you can see the difference.
Here is the video clip:
Video clip
 
Posted by John Kor (Member # 6062) on September 05, 2017, 03:13 PM:
 
"By stopping, I mean it just quits advancing. Everything else is on and I can see the image on the screen."

David - My unit sometimes stops too when there is a long section of blank (transparent) film. I think the Wolverine, at least the version I have, may be monitoring the image, and when there is a period of "inactivity," stops scanning. All film movement stops, but the light source stays on for a while, but then eventually will also turn off, followed by powering down of the unit entirely. The same also happens when the reel finishes when I've left the room and don't get back in time (don't hear the alarm timer on my phone, or I'm just lazy and forget).

General comments - I recently purchased my unit through Amazon when the price dropped to $269.95 US (it's since gone back to $299.95 last I checked). I've been on a scanning spree of my dad's 125 or so 8mm home movies (50 ft lengths) from the early 50s through early 80s. So far I've been very impressed with the scans, though the quality of the source material is not that great (what you get from a Bell and Howell Sears special in one hand and a high-ball or beer in the other). So far I've scanned 75 reels. Only a few reels so far did not make it all the way through due to the film width being too large in some sections (oddly, for the ones that bind they start off ok, but seize at some point usually a third to halfway through). And even then I'm able to scan most of these reels by "nursing" the film through by partly opening the cover (i.e. closing it to the point it restricts the movement of the film so it stops at each frame, but not pressing it past its "click" point, which ends up seizing the film). Also, sometimes I pause the scan to adjust the frame, which sometimes shifts after the first seconds or minute, especially on the oldest reels. You lose several frames (4 I think) each time you do this (and creates separate files), but is worth it to avoid losing too much of the film. I've been using Doug Stratton's great MP4Box GUI referenced earlier in this thread (thanks Doug!) to re-join the files (and adjust the speed) in post-processing.

I just hope my Wolverine survives long enough to finish up the remaining 50 or so reels, but it should still be under warranty if something does go wrong seeing as I've only had it for a little over a week. I'm also buoyed to hear of Wolverine's excellent customer service (admittedly for a partly flawed design and subpar construction, though it's difficult to complain too much at this price point). Hopefully they'll keep refining the unit (as they've apparently been doing regularly), and upgrade those components leading to common failure - even if they have to raise the price by 20 or 30% there would still be a good market, as others here have mentioned.

John
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 08, 2017, 09:14 AM:
 
Wolverine have just informed me they are sending me new parts.
Hopefully I should be getting my second new motor, new gear wheels and a new motor bracket..

So far I've had one motor and one take up assembly....

If you suffer from the frame jitters, wolverine also advised me to unscrew a quarter turn on the two screws that hold the silver plate in the gate, I can't test this yet as my machine is not running..

I also had an email from richard at winait, it is too late to return my wolverine for a refund, but they are happy to reapir it, if I send it back to china!

No way am I posting it back to china, wolverine in california are sending new parts, so we'll see how things turn out.
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on September 09, 2017, 08:30 PM:
 
Hey guys, could you pass me the email address of your Winait contacts? I wasn't able to find any at their web page...
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 10, 2017, 04:02 AM:
 
My email from winait came via the amazon website so the address is hidden from me.

I found this at the winait website.
Richard...
sale1@winait.com
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on September 10, 2017, 07:00 AM:
 
Thanks a lot, Mike. I couldn't find it and it's my last resort to try to get the missing info needed to attempt to do any firmware modification.

I'm still following this thread with lots of interest. I feel sorry for your late problems with the machine and hope you can fix them with the coming spare parts.

Also, I'm really amazed by Kurt Froberg work and wouldn't discard applying them to my machine... But I still have two priorities: one is modding it for accepting bigger rells, and another is being able to increase the bitrate of the output files. I feel like it's not enough to take really advantage of the increase in focus sharpness without it...
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 10, 2017, 07:52 AM:
 
I am going to try the re focus at some point and if I see an improvement I will re scan my navy films again..

My mod for larger reels is to use a projector to feed the 400ft reel, and do a cut at 200 ft and a new take up spool. It's not ideal but I have presstapes to splice things back together during a rewind on the projector.

I won't be doing too much paid work now, so hopefully the new parts will last a while longer this time.

I will post a video of the new parts and repair at some point in the coming weeks. The spares have arrived in the uk according to the parcel tracking info but I won't have time to do repairs for a couple of weeks as my real work is about to get very busy for a fortnight.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on September 10, 2017, 03:46 PM:
 
Thank you all for these great new posts, infos, insights and tweaks. Greatly appreciated.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 11, 2017, 11:08 AM:
 
Arrived today. Take Up Motor number 2
That is now a total of three take up motors.

I won't have time to fit it for a couple of weeks, but I will post a video when it is done
 -
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on September 11, 2017, 11:36 AM:
 
Thanks for the update Mike! Cheers
 
Posted by Phil Hall (Member # 5915) on September 12, 2017, 07:02 AM:
 
I'm glad to see the issue of poor focussing is being discussed;it seems it is still an issue with Wolverine and different brands, and was so bad on mine that I re-scanned many feet of film. As mentioned in the Post Script of my old post Focus Problem it is possible to check your focus without dismantling the unit, and should be the first thing to do when you get it new out the box: then you can choose whether to send it back, or open it up to re-focus yourself.
If in doubt, opening the unit up is easy, AS LONG AS YOU POP OFF THE SMALL TOUCH PANEL FIRST! There were no evident 'anti-tamper' seals to void your warranty.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 12, 2017, 10:30 AM:
 
My wolverine warranty is long gone! ha ha.

I have fitted a new motor and a take up assembly in the last two months.

I decided to email winait in china, through the Amazon site where I purchased.

I have just received this reply from Richard at Winait when I asked if it was possible for me to buy spares direct from winait, needless to say I have replied asking for a metal motor to arrive at my home asap with many thanks.

If Richard is prepared to send me a third gen motor I'd be foolish not to accept.

As always I will keep you up to date, altho this could take three weeks to arrive.....

Richards email:

hi Mike
good day, sorry for the problem
do you mean the motor have problem?
now we are on the production of the third gerenratoin, we will change the Motor to be metal one
if you need, we can send one motor to you , if you can change yourself

Regards
Richard
Winait Technologies Limited

I have also decided that for sure, I will hook the scanner up to my plasma tv and look at the focus and re adjust. I will use a little 'evo stick' rubber glue to re seal the focus afterwards.

[ September 12, 2017, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 13, 2017, 05:02 AM:
 
and another reply from Richard at Winait

hi Mike Spice
get your address, will arrange it as soon as possible, will send out this week, now motor still on process of testing

Regards
Richard
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 13, 2017, 10:26 AM:
 
Phil Hall

Thanks for your post and the link to your focus thread.
Really helpful, as was one other post about the focus, with pictures.

I will definately be refocusing mine when I put the new motor in.
 
Posted by Simon Hawketts (Member # 5756) on September 17, 2017, 01:59 AM:
 
Hi all

I've not posted to the forum before but I've been watching this thread because I was interested in getting one of these machines. Well on Sunday last I took the plunge and ordered the Winait version from Amazon and it arrived on Friday.

My first impressions were quite positive - I did a short 'first impressions' post on my vintage camera blog if anyone is interested (I haven't included the URL - not sure if that is within forum rules but you can find it by searching "simonhawketts.com winait") but subsequently I've found an issue.

My first 3inch reel film went through quite well and I started the machine on a 5-inch longer film, leaving it to run in the bedroom while I got on with other things. I regularly checked it and everything seemed to go well until about half-way through when I found the display frozen with lines running down the screen. The reels were still turning, but the device had crashed. I tried turning it off, but the keyboard had locked and I had to just pull the power lead out to stop it. After this, the unit crashes regularly when I attempt to run a film through it - sometimes within a few minutes, sometimes 30 minutes but without fail it will crash. I discovered if I hold the on/off key it will stop, but I have to then turn the machine on and off and the SD card has only the starting few seconds of the recording.

I emailed winait via the Amazon message centre asking if there are any firmware updates and received a response which said the version I have (20170310) is the only version but another will be released before the end of the year. At the moment I've tried a 'restore defaults' in the menu to see if that sorts it but if it doesn't (and I suspect it won't) I'll have to organise a replacement or repair. I'm also going to suggest when I email back, that the upcoming software update adds a 'slower speed, higher quality' option to the menu.

This is really just an informative post for anyone who is interested but I also wondered if anyone else has seen anything similar on their machine?
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 17, 2017, 03:28 AM:
 
really really sorry to hear your wolverine failed so soon, and a very frustrating fail too, mechanical fails are easier to deal with, your fault would drive me really mad!

there is a video at you tube of an exact same fault so you are not alone. I would email wolverine data in california and see what they say.



youtube video with the 'lines on the screen' fault


the link to Simons blog
 
Posted by Simon Hawketts (Member # 5756) on September 17, 2017, 03:44 AM:
 
Hi Mike
Yes it is annoying. I'm writing an email to support at the moment, but thanks for the video link - it's useful to know that the problem is not entirely unique and that people seem to have had a good response from support at Winait.
 
Posted by Simon Hawketts (Member # 5756) on September 17, 2017, 08:33 AM:
 
Just in case anyone has this crashing problem I've found there is a workaround of sorts.

If you set a film to record and then every few minutes stop the recording and start it, the Winait will close the file it's writing and start a new one when you restart the recording. In this way, if a crash happens you only lose a small part of the encoding. Interestingly, since I've been doing this the machine hasn't crashed so it could be the problem is tied to having open files and memory issues.

Anyway, it's a way I can get films digitised until a solution is found although you can't leave the machine unattended so it's a bit of a pain.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 19, 2017, 09:39 AM:
 
The problem of many files, generated by mulitple scans of the same film....

Further back in this topic you will find reference to a peice of software called MyMP4Box GUI and a link to download it and how to use it.

Use this to seamlessly join all the chunks of film files back together without any re encoding, and also use this software to correct the frame speed back to 18 or 16 fps without any re encoding.

It is really easy to use, it's free and safe.

If you need any help using it, let me know. I have been using it for several months now, it's a great peice of software to have on your laptop if you have a wolverine or similar.

I know you could rejoin the files in a video edit, but I prefer to join the original scan files without any re encoding so you always have the original scan file to go back to at a later date, in one complete file, and then do any video edits from the master file

[ September 19, 2017, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on September 20, 2017, 02:49 PM:
 
Thanks all for the additional info's! My new Somikon is still unboxed, haven't had the time yet. Keep up the good works...
 
Posted by Simon Hawketts (Member # 5756) on September 23, 2017, 03:11 AM:
 
Thanks for the software tip Mike.

I've emailed Richard at Winait to see if he is organising a replacement machine - if he doesn't I'll try getting a replacement through Amazon because as it stands I can only digitise films if I sit with them stopping and starting every 5 minutes.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 23, 2017, 04:57 AM:
 
I tried going through Amazon to get a replacement or refund but it seems I left it too late for a refund, but subsequently 'contacting the seller' is how I am in touch with Richard at winait.

I chose not to go for a replacement or repair option as it meant posting my scanner back to china, seeing as I have a new motor and Richard is still promising to send me a third gen motor, I might as well keep the scanner I have and fix it myself.....

I am still being told a third gen motor is on it's way, however it was meant to leave china last week but as yet, nothing in my email from Richard so I will jog his memory again next week.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on September 24, 2017, 09:54 AM:
 
Thanks for your update Mike! [Cool]
 
Posted by Jeffrey Miller (Member # 6092) on September 25, 2017, 07:44 PM:
 
Just got a Wolverine Movie Maker and generally like it very much (for the price). However, about half the time I am getting thin vertical blue streaks. These are not on the film, but show up on the scan and the LCD display. Any ideas? It usually happens after the machine has been running for a while.

 -
 
Posted by Nantawat Kittiwarakul (Member # 6050) on September 25, 2017, 10:17 PM:
 
Does that blue/black vertical streaks stay fixed in its position throughout the video? If it wanders a bit and/or show up intermittently,I bet that it's definitely emulsion scratch.

So the bad news is it's possible that that wolverine already DID SCRATCH your film,especially if you remembered that those streaks weren't there before. [Frown]

But if that streaks stay consistent to the entire video,then that's another story. [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 26, 2017, 09:58 AM:
 
If you are convinced it is the wolverine doing this, then there has to be something obvious in the gate aperture, or one of the feed guides has a sharp point on it..

See which side of the film the damage is on, as a clue to find the problem on the scanner.

I have never had this issue with my Wolverine.
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on September 26, 2017, 12:26 PM:
 
I just entered my Facebook and this appeared in front of my eyes:

https://www.facebook.com/WolverineData/videos/1475709579176099/

Ok, as the forum doesn't seem to show a preview of videos, here is cap:

 -

Resume:

It looks like Wolverine released an upgraded ("pro") version which accepts up to 9' reels.

Having bought the original version just 2 months ago, I'm feeling very angry now...

PS: forum admins, please fix the crappy picture uploading method...
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 27, 2017, 09:26 AM:
 
I have to say that I am furious at Wolverine.

The problems I and many others have had with the scanner and lo and behold here is a new gen with 1080p and 9" reels and I am left with a paperweight peice of junk...

Not Happy.

I hope anyone who buys the new version has more success than I and others have been having. I would love to see the results from the new machine.

Had I known 1080p and 7&9" reels were on the way in to production, I would have never bought the Wolverine I am stuck with now, at 720p with 5" reels, having to mess about splicing 400 reels in to two 200s to scan them.

In the meantime I am still waiting for a third gen motor from china, here is Richards reply to yesterdays' email asking when I might receive it:

good day
becuuse this is update for the machine, to change the hardware need to make sure it can work with software work well, so need careful test.
i will check with production team, once it pass test will send to you as soon as possible .

Regards
Richard


here is a link to the new scanner on thier facebook page
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on September 27, 2017, 11:57 AM:
 
I've seen your comments there, Mike. Have you seen mine? They replied me insinuating that I had nothing to complain since "the original unit was about $100 cheaper". Jeez, it's not because of the price but due to the inconveniences...

It's a shame we couldn't modify the firmware. Until someone makes a proper report of the new model, I wouldn't discard that the image quality is the same, so probably the 1080p resolution is just a different setting in the firmware (one of those I was trying to change). Maybe when firmware images come out we are able to flash our old models with them...
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on September 27, 2017, 12:53 PM:
 
[please delete; double post]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 27, 2017, 03:32 PM:
 
I have seen your comments Pere I am as mad as you are with wolverine data.

1080p.... I would hope is not just a marketing ploy to entice folk in to buying in to this machine.

I would really hope there is a significant difference in picture quality.

I guess we will have to wait and see......
 
Posted by Nantawat Kittiwarakul (Member # 6050) on September 27, 2017, 08:05 PM:
 
Since the original model at 720p resolution already did look much like an UPCONVERSION from vga resolution to me. This "upgraded" 1080p won't give me any much hope too. [Frown]
 
Posted by Peter Scott (Member # 4541) on September 28, 2017, 03:14 AM:
 
Can anyone from USA tell me who I can complain to about Wolverine, heres my story, in August I bought the take up motor assembly for the Wolverine MovieMaker, I done 2 x 200ft reels then got the same problem that the take up spool would not move smoothly, I got in touch with Wolverine and they said that their was no warranty outside USA and that I could buy a heavy duty version for $45 plus $18 dollars shipping, why should I have to pay again when I only paid the same amount in August, over here in the UK we have trading standards to complain to, do you have any organisation in the USA ? that could help me
Thanks
Peter
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on September 28, 2017, 07:48 AM:
 
sorry to hear of your similar problems to mine Peter.

They wanted to charge me $20 to send a new motor from California and I refused to pay it, stating the machine was almost new. They sent it for free, they also sent me a take up assembly for free when I threatened to raise the issue with Amazon (the supplier in my case)

They have now sent me a second motor which has yet to be fitted, after my last video clearly pointed out the problems.

They told me they had sent me a heavy duty motor but from the video I put at you tube, the so called heavy duty motor was identical to the original.

Richard at Winait is promising to send me a third gen motor once it has been tested but I have a feeling it won't work with my machine, call it a hunch......
 
Posted by Peter Scott (Member # 4541) on September 28, 2017, 08:49 AM:
 
Hello Mike seems we are in the same boat as Wolverine wanted to charge me $63 for a "heavy duty" motor but my original was only 3 weeks old, I also spoke to Richard at Winait and he has promised to send me a heavy duty motor once they have been tested.
I have put in a complaint with www.bbb.org who seem to be like trading standards.
I bought mine from B&H photo but they have just said they couldn't do anything
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on September 29, 2017, 02:19 PM:
 
Anyone remember me saying that there wasn't really any technical reason for limiting the output file to 30 fps? Remember Wolverine telling us that "30fps is the lowest framerate that any chip can output nowadays"?

Well, we already knew that it was a lie, but now they actually confirmed that: the new model output video files will run at 20fps. Another stupid design decision, because no footage is shooted for playing at they framerate. They say they've chosen that because it in the middle between 18 and 24! What an absurdity! So you won't get a proper framerate in any case! Instead, had they chosen 24 they would had generated proper video files for most of the cases!

Another lie, another deceivment from the Wolverine staff. And I can't understand why they are so uncompetent not to make the ouptut framerate available as a menu setting...
 
Posted by Ty Reynolds (Member # 5117) on September 29, 2017, 03:36 PM:
 
Since the Wolverine is intended for home movies, not commercial releases, the preferred rate would be 18 fps, not 24. However, I think most customers would accept 20. After all, is that not the effective frame rate of film transferred via the variable speed projector method?

Not to defend Wolverine, mind you. The frame rate is the least of its shortcomings.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on October 11, 2017, 10:15 AM:
 
Sorry to bump this thread back to the top with no news.

I have emailed Richard at Winait once a week and again just now, to find out if I am actually going to get the new third gen motor....

I was hoping to fit the new motor sent from Wolverine in California a few weeks back, in the next couple of weeks, but my real life work is so hectic with enjoyable sound installations and theatre work right now, I probably won't have the time to do any super 8 work until I hit the Christmas break...

Wishing you all well my little Wolverines.....
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on October 12, 2017, 09:55 AM:
 
this week's reply from Richard contains exciting news!
I hope the tracking number is forthcoming .....

quote:

hi Mike
Good day
for the motor is the new update, so need to test all . sorry take so long time
now it is ok, i will arrange the motor to you today
later send tracking number to you

Regards
Richard
 
Posted by Joanna Crowder (Member # 6130) on October 20, 2017, 12:12 PM:
 
I just purchased the pro and it arrived yesterday. I messed with it a little but only ran one roll of film through it. What I got looks very good considering $379.00 and no shipping cost. Seems to be fairly well built but pretty much the same construction as the lesser model with the exception of the 9" swing out reel arm and the better resolution. Now I am trying to find some software for restoration that was NOT made for video cameras and doesn't cost 3k to 12k. Any suggestions? Oh an by the way the frame rate is 30fps not twenty as advertised. I called Wolverine and suggested the correct it where the have it listed as that.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on October 21, 2017, 04:36 AM:
 
Good luck with the new toy Joanna. Keep us posted please.

When you say software for restoration, Many video editing packages have basic tools to clean up video.

AVI synth is popular, free, but hugely demanding in terms of the learning curve, Plenty of info online about it, it is capable of all sorts of tricks but as I say, quite difficult to grasp as it is command line.

I use a cheap no frills video edit software for my work, but I haven't done 'restoration' as such. Just a bit of jitter correction and contrast/brightness and colour correction.

Do keep us posted on your progess with the new version Wolverine and thanks for telling us about it.
You are the first person in this thread to have one!

I am told by Richard at Winait that my third gen motor is on the way from china, so I will update if and when it arrives....
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on October 21, 2017, 04:50 AM:
 
Hi all and a very warm welcome to Joanna! 😎

For postproduction I use Apple Final Cut Pro X and several plugins. For the best cleanup possible - grain, noise and dust artifacts - I use the euro 100 plug-in NeatVideo. For me personally a must-have for all my restauration projects 8mmToDigital.

For reference I would like to share one of my test-video's on my YouTube channel "8mmToVideo".

https://youtu.be/ay8VENaag4o

This is a capture from one of my many 8mmToDigital scans (Somikon HD-XL 1080p) showing the Demo Modus of the plug-in, thats why the output is generated only for the 720p dimensions, although this video has an output of 1080p. Nevertheless a great way to show the impact of it on the scan - see closely the very clear picture Q inside the green demo-box!

If you have any further Q's, please let me know! 😎

Cheers

[ October 21, 2017, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Berend De Meyer ]
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on October 21, 2017, 04:23 PM:
 
Hi Jeffrey,

A welcome to you too!

quote:
Just got a Wolverine Movie Maker and generally like it very much (for the price). However, about half the time I am getting thin vertical blue streaks. These are not on the film, but show up on the scan and the LCD display. Any ideas? It usually happens after the machine has been running for a while.
Are those blue verticals lines - if not on film - visible when you connect the WMM to an external monitor or TV, to rule out the LCD?

Cheers
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on October 21, 2017, 04:38 PM:
 
Joanna, where did you purchase the Wolverine Pro?
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on October 27, 2017, 07:11 AM:
 
hot off the boat from china... the third gen motor which does look quite robust.
I must email Richard at Winait and say a thank you very much.

This motor looks much better, but until it is fitted we won't know....

 -

 -

[ October 27, 2017, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on October 27, 2017, 10:35 AM:
 
New motor fitted and working.
The take up tension is a lot lighter with this motor.

So far so good, a test scan looks good.

new motor fitted, next to add some grease.
 -

Place the new motor to check the fit

 -
Old motor

 -
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on October 27, 2017, 10:41 AM:
 
Hi Mike,

Thank you for your update! Good luck with the new rugged motor.

Cheers
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on October 27, 2017, 12:40 PM:
 
Thanks Berend.

It's been a long slog with this motor, This is motor number 4, the original factory fitted, a new one from wolverine california, then another new motor from california, then a take up assembly from california, then a third gen motor from china.
As much as I am annoyed, I have to take my hat of to wainait and wolvering in Ca.

I have had amazing customer support.

My persistance paid off hopefully, I have high hopes now I have seen this new motor. All metal...

If this is the motor in the 400ft reel wolverine, then hopefully they will have a good lifetime of scanning.

It was the only weak link in the chain, not counting the 30fps/mp4 thing...

heavy duty motor fitted and working

[ October 28, 2017, 04:35 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on October 28, 2017, 03:13 AM:
 
Hi Mike,

Great to hear about your excellent customer experience with both Wainait and Wolverine in Ca. I sincerely hope that your issues are all left behind in the past.

Many happy scans in the future! [Cool]

Cheers
 
Posted by Gian Michele Soddu (Member # 6108) on October 28, 2017, 02:29 PM:
 
Hallo, I just wish to share a link to the meticolous and precious observations of an enthusiast owner of at least two (up to now) Wolverine Reels2digital Moviemaker:

http://www.drviragopete.com/film-scanner-maintenance.php
 
Posted by Gian Michele Soddu (Member # 6108) on October 28, 2017, 02:30 PM:
 


[ November 02, 2017, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Gian Michele Soddu ]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on October 29, 2017, 05:44 AM:
 
HI Gian. It's good to have you in the Wolverine thread, welcome to you.

Your blog is most interesting.
Your meticulous observations are pleasant to read and I agree with everything you say.

I see you have first generation with the O ring take up.
A lot of folk have had problems with this machine.
There is a video at youtube of this version, overheating.
Link to Bob's video at the bottom of my post.

Thanks for the link to your blog, I shall continue to read it with interest.

Your point about not using the wolverine for rewinding is something I concur.

I use my projector to rewind, I get a better wind, and less stress on the scanner, which can not rewind very well.

overheating wolverine with O ring take up

[ October 29, 2017, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Gian Michele Soddu (Member # 6108) on October 30, 2017, 02:23 PM:
 
Sorry Mike you misunderstood my post: that is not my blog, I just found it over the web and wished to share the informations thereby. Anyway I'm glad to announce that me too will soon become a presumably happy owner of a Wolverine r2d mm, provided 1) the package which is coming tomorrow will not be broken, nor 2) the device inside it is broken and does not go clickety clackety and does not melt its rubber belts!
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on November 01, 2017, 07:15 PM:
 
quote:
Hallo, I just wish to share a link to the meticolous and precious observations of an enthusiast owner of at least two (up to now) Wolverine Reels2digital Moviemaker:

http://www.drviragopete.com/film-scanner-maintenance.php

Great blog Gian! Thanks for sharing.

Cheers

[ November 01, 2017, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Berend De Meyer ]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on November 02, 2017, 08:47 AM:
 
Gian Michele Soddu Ah yes, I mis read your post. None the less, thank you for finding and sharing it.

Good luck with your scanner, please keep us up to date with how you get along with it, or any problems that arise in the coming weeks.

If you post any video online, it would be good to see clips, or if you need help or advice, be sure to come and ask us.

Good luck and fingers crossed you have a good scanner!

An update on my scanning work.
I took the front cover off, hoping to mess with the focus, but it seems my lens has been sealed with what can best be described as super glue.
A transparent substance that is very tightly glued up.

I am afraid that if I take pliers to it, I may damge the camera or crack the plastic, so the front cover will go back on, and I will live with the factory set focus for the time being.

The films I have scanned don't look too bad to me, I watch my content online, not on a 50" tv set, So I am happy.

Being able to share my Royal Navy clips with other Navy folk from the 70's is quite remarkable.

Some footage has never been seen by anyone other than me and my Mum when she was alive.

Social media and YouTube are a godsend for sharing content.

Another cheap plug for my You Tube Channel, Super 8 Rescue

[ November 02, 2017, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Gian Michele Soddu (Member # 6108) on November 02, 2017, 05:30 PM:
 
Mike, thank you very much for your friendly welcome. It was my post to be somewhat misleading, and I apologise for having been unpolite. Sorry.
Good news: my Wolverine Reels2Digital Moviemaker arrived in the morning. Bad news: I had to pay 92 Euros more because of Italian import taxes from the USA. Since the device cost 300 Euros (shipping included, from Adorama), the taxes amount to almost 1/4 of the whole price! Italian buyers be aware!
Item to be unboxed in the weekend, stay tuned! Bye!
 
Posted by Gian Michele Soddu (Member # 6108) on November 02, 2017, 05:44 PM:
 
Cheers, Berend. I love The Netherlands, also because it was the first "foreign" country I ever went to, maybe in 1994. The weather during the flight was sunny up to the border, but as soon as we entered the country it started to rain, and this made all the Dutch people laugh abruptly. Unforgettable

[ November 03, 2017, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: Gian Michele Soddu ]
 
Posted by Bob Russell (Member # 6166) on November 18, 2017, 12:51 PM:
 
Hi, I'm been following this thread for a few months, after I found it while searching for a way to digitize my old Super8 home movies from the 80s, less expensively and safer than sending them to Costco. My goal is to archive precious memories for my children and grandchildren, in a format that they will actually use.

I've read with interest the problems with the MovieMaker and the improvements Wolverine Data has made over the last few months, apparently in response to customers on this forum and elsewhere. I was planning to buy one late this year (when I could actually get to the digitization project), planning on getting one of the later model improved MovieMaker.

But then I saw the post about the MovieMaker Pro, hopefully with the better components and with the 9" reel capacity. (I have several 7" reels). So I ordered ($379 after coupon, plus sales tax) and it arrived a couple of days ago. This post is to show what the external AND internal components are for those of you interested.

Front view:
 -

Back View (notice the vent slots):
 -

View with 9 inch reel:
 -

Inside (looks just like the updated original MovieMaker a few posts back. No belts, just gears. Cooling fan under the electronics):
 -

Firmware version is reported to be 21070803-ZS06.

I've just started trying to scan some film. I'm experimenting with Shotcut as a simple video editor (but I'm open to suggestions!...) and it is interesting to note that Shotcut reports my Super 8 scan as:

Codec: H.264/AVC/MPEG-4 AVC/MPEG-4 part 10
Resoluton: 1440x1080
Frame rate: 20
Format: yuv420p
Aspect ratio 4x3
Scan mode: Progressive

So it appears that they have actually changed the frame rate! And my initial impression from my first video is that the new rate is close to the 18 frames per second my Minolta camera used when taking that video.

When I get some videos scanned, I'll try to upload to youtube.

Thank you to the 8mmm forum members who have pioneered this little gadget!

[ November 19, 2017, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Bob Russell ]
 
Posted by Chris Holton (Member # 6169) on November 18, 2017, 04:00 PM:
 
I just got my moviemaker"PRO" yesterday and the "titan" slide scanner..I have film cleaner on the way and then I will be schooling myself on how to use this new equipment, I will be doing 8m.m. home movies...
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on November 18, 2017, 04:14 PM:
 
Hi Bob & Chris! A very warm welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing the info's about your all new W-PRO. Much appreciated!

quote:

Firmware version is reported to be 21070803-ZS06.

I've just started trying to scan some film. I'm experimenting with Shotgun as a simple video editor (but I'm open to suggestions!...) and it is interesting to note that Shotgun reports my Super 8 scan as:

Codec: H.264/AVC/MPEG-4 AVC/MPEG-4 part 10
Resoluton: 1440x1080
Frame rate: 20
Format: yuv420p
Aspect ratio 4x3
Scan mode: Progressive

As for the framerate, they have obviously went for the in between route for both the 18fps and 24fps - most common - framrates so users don't nessecarely need to adjust, when viewing the output OOTB!

Enjoy your new scanner and I hope you'll share some footage very soon! [Cool]

Berend
 
Posted by Bob Russell (Member # 6166) on November 19, 2017, 04:55 PM:
 
Thanks Berend.

I've edited my original post to correct the name of the film editing program I'm trying. It is Shotcut (not Shotgun).

I have also noticed that the Pro has 4 film path guide spindles before the take up reel, vs 3 on the original model. Maybe to adjust for larger reels, or reduce take up tension?

In any case, my films so far are all feeding smoothly, although I've only used 3" and 5" full reels, and nothing with splices yet.
 
Posted by Gian Michele Soddu (Member # 6108) on November 20, 2017, 08:00 AM:
 
Title: "A sad story of rashness"

Hallo everyone.
As I stated, two weekends ago, in a warm Sardinian sunny afternoon, surrounded by green leaves in the terrace above our garden, I happily unboxed my (expensive) Wolverine Reels2Digital Moviemaker 720p and, soon after, tested it, scanning a 5" reel Mickey Mouse colour cartoon and showing it on a 22" tv-set.
The images where beyond my expectations and I was very happy and satisfied, even though I noticed it was a (very little) bit out of focus. With my smartphone I shoot a movie of the unboxing and of the testing operations, willing to show them on my YouTube channel.
By a fault of some sort the smartphone lost every image of the operations and I couldn't recovery any of them, even spending hours with special recovery tools for Android.

Next weekend I opened the machine and unlocked the lens-holder threaded cilinder, with the help of a steel awl, a cotton swab and isopropyl alcohol; then put a piece of a teflon ribbon around the screw's thread to improve it's adherence;then I wrapped a segment of an electric band at its edge, making a ring and a handle, then I carved the cover and enlarged the lens slot, so that I could easily set the focus from outside. I filmed all my operations and will put on YouTube in the future (I anticipate that the movie is a little bit frightening)

In the previous days, the technical assistance staff at Wolverine kindly sent me a copy of firmware, which I asked them "for safety reasons". I also asked them what did they think about the possibility of testing on my 720p machine a firmware which could be downloaded from Somikon.de and was intended for their 1080p machine, which seemed equivalent to Wolverine's. They warned me that it could be a dangerous action, because the hardwares were different.

Even so, in ditto weekend, after having unlocked the lens, I decided that it was also worth the effort to make some "firmware improvements", to put the machine at its maximum, before starting to copy, once and for all, my family's movies.

First thing first, I put an empty file named "engmode" in the SDHC card, fancying to access to a secret menu of options to fine tune the hardware. The machine returned a long error message and nothing else happened.

I substituted engmode with the firmware file which was given to me by Wolverine's staff, and the machine seemed to start normally as before. At this point, I noticed that the version of this firmware was older than the original in the machine.
Anyway, I felt safe, having a copy of a regular firmware, so I decided to make the next experiment and loaded the Somikon's firmware...

The machine started with the Somikon's logo, then I noticed that the menu was a little richer: more languages, even Italian, and a counter of the duration of the scanning, which also took into account whether the reel was 3, 5, or 7".
I felt as cunning as a fox, and rubbing my hands with pleasure and satisfaction, put again my Mickey Mouse cartoon in the machine, ready to scan...

TO BE CONTINUED

[ November 21, 2017, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Gian Michele Soddu ]
 
Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on November 21, 2017, 08:29 AM:
 
Hi All,
Just wondering what is the best machine,
The Somicon or the New Wolverine Pro?
Many Thanks.
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on November 21, 2017, 09:41 AM:
 
Here is my two cents worth. I now own three of these Wolverines. The first one is the original, non-vented belt drive. The second is vented, with a modified belt system (that came out before the first motor drive). Now I have the Wolverine Pro. Back on page 3 or four of this thread, I posted photos of the first unit, adapted to do 7" reels. I have done no fewer than 150 7" reels without any mishaps. The second unit is used as designed (up to 5" reels). I have done about 80 reels on that without any issues. But regarding the 7" reels, I hated the footprint with having to use my rewinds to facilitate the larger reels. That is why I bought the Pro. Last night I completed the 26th 7" reel, and the machine is working perfectly. I also LOVE the 20FPS record rate, All of the films I own are home movies filmed aboard U.S. Navy ships of all types, but mostly carriers. So for me, a 20FPS rate accurately reproduces that 'real-to-life' appearance of the video. I only wish there was a way to adjust the frame without stopping the recording, especially after splices, etc. But over all, I am very pleased. Up until I began using these scanners, I used both a Moviestuff Workprinter-XP and Cinemate-20 with a HD camera. These scanners reproduce the films as well as either the Workprinter or Cinemate, for whatever that's worth. And these units are a heck of a lot cheaper...
I will save some of the videos I have completed using the Wolverines (or at least portions) to YouTube and post the URL's, so folks can see. I will also post videos from the Workprinter and Cinemate so that folks can compare for themselves.
I am exceedingly reluctant (read afraid) to mess around with the firmware, etc. While there could be some improvements in 'userability', I am not so sure that there would be much improvement to the output quality...
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on November 21, 2017, 10:00 AM:
 
Gian I didn't think for one minute that you had been impolite. not at all my friend.
I enjoy reading your posts very much.

Bob Russell Thank you very much for your photos of the pro wolverine.
Most interesting to see inside, and oh look, there is the third generation motor Richard at winait sent me!

Really very kind of you to open up your pro and let us see inside, so very many thanks for those photos.

If I credit the photos to you I hope you won't mind me using them in my closed facebook group to show my friends how it looks inside.

This thread really is becoming the history of the Wolverine.

For framerate corrections... it takes a few seconds to demux a file in MyMP4box GUI mentioned further back in this thread, with a complete explanation of how to choose your own framerate.

Another alternative in video edit is to slow the film to a suitable speed, as long as the film is exported in equal quality or a little higher, I don't have a problem with that method.

I always keep the original scans to go back to if I need a fresh edit or copy.

There is no re encoding in MyMP4Box, just framerate change, to any frame rate you choose.

Personally I like my standard 8 films at 15fps.

Gary Schreffler wow, you have had some luck! I agree witih you about the firmware, I won't be going there, but I do wish I can mess with the focus, but I don't want to damage the lens, or camera module soldered to the circuit board, by trying to remove the sealant on my lens.

James Wilson The Wolverine pro would be my go to, now they have sorted the take up motor, but I have no expereince with the somikon
 
Posted by Bob Russell (Member # 6166) on November 21, 2017, 11:59 AM:
 
Mike Spice, feel free to use those photos, and no need to give me credit. I'm happy they are useful to you and others, since everyone on this thread inspired me to look into the Wolverine, and I was very fortunate that the Pro came out just before I was going to pull the trigger on purchasing the original version.

Gary Schreffler, I agree with you on trying to change firmware, unless there is a documented process from the manufacturer for doing so. (as is common with wifi routers). That said, I think there is a possibility that the firmware in the Pro would be compatible, since the manual's limited description of the chip in the two machines is identical.

Gary, let us know if you ever put your Navy films up on YouTube. I was in the maintenance department of an A6 Intruder squadron during Vietnam and have a Super 8 film taken by our aircrews of operations on the carrier and missions over N. Vietnam. It has not been digitized yet, but is very similar to this extremely well done video on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_H8yebjnK8

Fly Navy!

That is a great example of what can be done with handheld Super 8mm cameras.
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on November 21, 2017, 12:42 PM:
 
Bob Russell: Yes, I have seen that video, and it is very comparable to the work I do (I convert those old films for fellow veterans free of charge). I also served on USS Midway, 1984-1991. I was an air crewman and rescue swimmer, flying in the mighty SH-3H Seaking (crewed by heroes of all men, lovers of all women...!).

I have a few clips on YouTube (I just copied the URL from my cell, so no clue if have to do something special to view on a computer). The links below are from the USS Lake Champlain (CVA-39), circa 1954/55 and 1961. Also, another film listed by another user (CHAMPCV39) is work I did for a veteran. It's the last link.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E-zkloyoruw

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CrGgCKdbX_0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh41T1vJpgI

GO NAVY/BEAT ARMY!!!
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on November 21, 2017, 01:11 PM:
 
How nice to know we have some navy vets saving movies.

The only reason I bought a Wolverine was to save the films from my time in the Royal Navy

I went to the Royal navy right from school, in 1974, as a cook.
I served 12 years, I saw active service in 82 down in the Falkland islands.

My earlier navy days are on 8mm, if you like that sort of thing, aircarft carriers and flying, here is my playlist of 8mm.

GO NAVY!

Mike's navy home movies
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on November 21, 2017, 02:55 PM:
 
Where in the USA can I buy the PRO version of the Wolverine?
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on November 21, 2017, 04:16 PM:
 
I just bought one. You can order directly from Wolverine:
http://www.wolverinedata.com
Be sure to use their coupon when checking out:
Use Promo Code WC2009 and receive $20.00 off AND FREE SHIPPING (ground)

I have an old model with the direct drive motor and vented. Only used a few times. if anyone is interested in buying it for $225, contact me.
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on November 21, 2017, 04:53 PM:
 
Mike Spice; I have a few Royal Navy films in my archive. Most recent RN project was a Royal Fleet Auxiliary, the RFA Forth. One of the cool sequences is the Royal Yacht Britannia steaming past at high speed, with the three flags flying on the three masts, indicating the royal family was embarked. Also have a few RN destroyers and a carrier or two.

I also have a home movie filmed in 1951 aboard the USS Franklin D Roosevelt (CVA-42), that has great images of Princess Elizabeth and her husband, Captain Philip, touring the ship (walking on the flight deck) when she visited Gibralter. This was filmed just before she became Queen Elizabeth. So that's pretty cool.

The Wolverine scanners make preserving these films a whole new ballgame.

[ November 21, 2017, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Gary Schreffler ]
 
Posted by Mark Stanley (Member # 6180) on November 24, 2017, 02:31 AM:
 
Hello all. I am building a 16mm scanner, and notice that the Wolverine does not have upper/lower loops, sprockets or a pulldown claw. Could someone describe how the intermittent movement of the film is obtained (the start and stop)? Thanks. Mark.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on November 24, 2017, 09:59 AM:
 
Hi all!

The all new Wolverine F2D Pro X Plus 8mm filmscanner! Scanning 8 mm film will never be the same!

https://youtu.be/w7779CZKd8M

nJoy your weekend! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on November 24, 2017, 10:14 AM:
 
Sorry Berend, there are not enough hours left in my life to digitize a single reel of film this way! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Chris Holton (Member # 6169) on November 24, 2017, 11:28 PM:
 
I just purchased the F2D "titan" it does a fantastic job on the slides..
I also just got the "moviemaker pro" I haven't used it yet but I plan on trying it out sunday..
 
Posted by Chris Holton (Member # 6169) on November 26, 2017, 05:10 PM:
 
Here is my result,,this is a learning experience..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY4F3ZZoZ1U
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on November 27, 2017, 10:04 AM:
 
Chris Holton I really enjoyed your movie clip.
Thanks for sharing that.
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on November 27, 2017, 04:20 PM:
 
Back in May, Doug Stratton (on page 3 of this topic) outlined a method of changing fps speed by using MP4Box-GUI --- demuxing your file and then muxing the result with the option to change the fps. However, I notice that there is a pull-down box with a preset list of speeds and that 16 or 18fps are not options. The options offered go from 15 to 23.9 with nothing in-between. Anyone know how to make this program work and bypass the presets and customize it at 16 or 18 fps???
 
Posted by Chris Holton (Member # 6169) on November 27, 2017, 09:25 PM:
 
Thanks mike!..I'm glad you liked the old race cars, I have a few more to do..
 
Posted by Kurt Froberg (Member # 5922) on November 28, 2017, 12:51 AM:
 
Alan, the answer to your question about the frame rate is on page 4 in this thread.
I will copy it here:

You can actually choose ANY frame rate you wish if you do this little change in My MP4Box: Under "View", choose "Edit Command Line". When you start Mux, you can choose Fps=15, you will see a new window with the actual command line which you can edit where you see the fps=15 you just change the numbers from 15 to 18 (or 24 or whatever), the press "Copy and Run".

Hope this helps
Kurt
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on November 28, 2017, 09:08 AM:
 
Kurt beat me to it. You can type in any FPS you like this way, works a treat, just backspace the fps number and insert you own, without adding any extra spacing to the command line
 -
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on November 28, 2017, 09:09 AM:
 
Thanks so "Mux", Kurt. That makes my day a delightfully happy one. This is the first order of over 50 reels where I'm using the Wolverine instead of the Focuskye setup I traditionally use. I'm finding this better in many ways except the output seems to have a bit more graininess than I normally get --- any thoughts about reducing the grain?
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on November 28, 2017, 09:14 AM:
 
perhaps post us a test clip at youtube and link here so we can see and maybe advise.

[ November 28, 2017, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Kurt Froberg (Member # 5922) on November 28, 2017, 09:22 AM:
 
Alan, regarding the noise/graininess, please see my post at page 7 in this thread where I also have an video clip example. I use the Neat Video plugin (in my editing software Sony Vegas) for noise reduction. It is almost a must for this bad compression.
Kurt
 
Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on November 28, 2017, 10:52 AM:
 
Hi Berend,
I`ve just ordered The Somicon i hope I get the 20fps software
& the updated motor. It was between the Somicon & the new Pro Wolverine, But I could`nt find anywhere they would ship to the UK, I hope I`ve chosen the right one.
I will let you know when it arrives.
James.
Update, I`ve just heared from Somicon they only ship to Germany or Austria, so if anyone has any Ideas please let me know. PS. I don`t like bank transfers.
 
Posted by Ricky Daniels (Member # 95) on November 28, 2017, 03:08 PM:
 
James,
Here is your answer....

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/

Happy shopping.
Best,
Rick
 
Posted by Doug Stratton (Member # 5923) on December 02, 2017, 12:27 AM:
 
With the New Wolverine pro has the quality itself actually improved at all? On videohelp.com someone had mentioned that Wolverine told them the machine was now made to use the max quality possible, though this completely contradicts what they told someone here

Can anyone compare file sizes from the SD card if they own the older versions with the pro?
 
Posted by Gerald Pech (Member # 6194) on December 02, 2017, 03:47 AM:
 
Hi, I'm following this thread today from France.
I just wish to share a official link to the 20fps software for Somikon (Firmware-Update für 20fps (2MB)) https://www.pearl.de/support/product.jsp?pdid=NX4294
Pere Pasqual, there are great news about modifying our firmware if you can modifying this new firmware ???
 
Posted by Tom Tomlinson (Member # 3195) on December 06, 2017, 10:09 PM:
 
I just got the pro model & its failing to scan--it says to check the "power". But no power problem displaying the error message...
I've triple checked my threading. Anyone have issues like this?

Wolverine Support told me to not scan the leader......??? still no good--tried 3 rolls of Super8 film.

not too encouraging so far. Any tips much appreciated.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on December 07, 2017, 09:01 AM:
 
I always scan the leader.
Threading would not make a difference to power supplies.

I would suggest checking the psu is the correct rating for your power supply, ie: 120v /240v

other than that, a mulitmeter on the low voltage plug of the psu to see what voltage it is kicking out.
 
Posted by Ken Abruzzo (Member # 6188) on December 07, 2017, 01:21 PM:
 
I would also try a different SD card or reseating the one you have. If I remember correctly, the machine will turn off when the SD card is removed.

I've run about 30 reels through mine so far (5", 6" and 7"). Only problems I've had are with it getting stuck sometimes on a bad splice and misalignments. Not too concerned about the misalignment since I can correct it in software.
 
Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on December 08, 2017, 01:42 PM:
 
I confess I have nothing to say on this subject, except it's great to see that it will shortly have prompted 250 posts with many useful observations since April! A warm welcome to the forum members who have recently posted here for the first time. I don't think I would have dared predict 10 years ago that the forum would be thriving in 2017 with so many contributors and posts!
 
Posted by Bob Russell (Member # 6166) on December 10, 2017, 11:41 AM:
 
Question for those with more experience than I using the Wolverine: (especially the Pro with its 1080p resolution)

If I plan to do post processing (correct color balance, etc) what would be the likely best settings on the Wolverine for Sharpness and Exposure? Or is there a single best setting for post processing corrections?

Case in point: I have one film that is underexposed (in a dark room) and the white areas (striped clothing,lighted area, etc) are digitized as yellow by the auto color balance of the Wolverine. Wolverine Data tech support has suggested for this particular problem to use lower EV (-0.5) and Sharpness to Low.

My thinking is to get all of my films digitized (50+ 3" reels plus 4 or 5 7" reels), and only then post process the ones that need help. I'm trying to avoid determining the best settings for each film by trial and error on each one.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on December 10, 2017, 01:00 PM:
 
Adrian Winchester wrote:
quote:
I confess I have nothing to say on this subject, except it's great to see that it will shortly have prompted 250 posts with many useful observations since April! A warm welcome to the forum members who have recently posted here for the first time. I don't think I would have dared predict 10 years ago that the forum would be thriving in 2017 with so many contributors and posts!
Hi Adrian, thank you very much for your compliments. I must confess, this forum is a great place to contribute to, because we all post with great passion!

I have only one polite but nevertheless very urgent request - perhaps on behalve of many more - and that is to give this great forums a GUI upgrade asap, if possible of course.

Sincerely, Berend [Cool]
 
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on December 10, 2017, 04:12 PM:
 
Berend,

I would be thrilled for that to happen! Until then, we can only do our best to continue to make this a great place to post.

Doug
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on December 11, 2017, 10:05 AM:
 
Bob Russell if time permits, i would scan each film on two different exposure settings, but keeping sharp focus each time, and then experiment in the edit.

I have to admit I have done very little post scan correction other than fps. I am on the older wolverine 720p
 
Posted by Bob Russell (Member # 6166) on December 11, 2017, 05:15 PM:
 
Mike, by "sharp focus" do you mean set Sharpness on high?

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try that.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on December 13, 2017, 09:52 AM:
 
I always go for the sharpest focus setting in the menu, It may not work for you, but doing a few test runs at different settings will allow you find out what the machine can do.

it is time consuming, but doing a few different settings on the same film means you can see how the different settings affect certain types of film and exposure, it also means you can use different bits of scan in an edit later on.....
 
Posted by Miguel Roman (Member # 6208) on December 14, 2017, 04:54 AM:
 
Hello everyone: I've been with this forum for a long time, especially, the subject of telecinado of 8mm films.
Finally, I have decided; I purchased a few days ago: The Somikon HD-XL-Film Scanner. New engine, (3rd generation) new firmware 20 frames, etc.
The first tests; all right. but I have observed that also as it has been doing some, reels, begin the unrest and instability, that cough you have noticed in the Wolverine ...
I'm somewhat disappointed
 
Posted by Joe Wein (Member # 6216) on December 16, 2017, 11:47 AM:
 
Thank you Robert for posting raw samples from the wolverine at 720. I did a clean-up with image stabilization in premiere, speed change, noise reduction, and color correction.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnA9ivyP8Xk&feature=youtu.be

I would LOVE to see some footage from the 1080 version and have a chance to see how it compares, if anyone has any footage directly from the new Wolverine with a 1080 file... THANK You!
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on December 26, 2017, 07:44 PM:
 
quote:
Pere Pasqual, there are great news about modifying our firmware if you can modifying this new firmware ???

Sorry for the delay! I just arranged this test site with my own modified firmwares, changing resolution and bitrate. Use at your own risk! (really there's not much risk of bricking the machine) and more to come soon!

http://retromania.pandelground.com/wolverine-reels2digital-moviemaker
 
Posted by Jake Mayes (Member # 3292) on December 26, 2017, 07:59 PM:
 
As these post a JPG sequence just before making the movie which you can save if you remove the card before making the movie after capture, much of the image quality issues look like jpg compression artifacts. Can you reprogram your custom firmware to adjust the JPG compression rate to the lowest? That would mean you could save images of all frames in good quality. Good work with the firmwares!

I am going to give this a try. It would save much telecine costs if i could do my own as the quality seems acceptable and 1080p resolution is fine.
 
Posted by Tom Tomlinson (Member # 3195) on December 26, 2017, 10:17 PM:
 
I was and still am having a power issue with the machine. I checked the voltage on the plug output & it measured 12V. I contacted support via phone & they sent another plug which still had no change.

I've had the machine about 3 weeks now & have yet to scan anything. I asked if I can get get a replacement unit. They said no & to send the unit in for repair.
To me, this says a lot.

I asked for them to let me know asap regarding its status/repair. I hope they follow thru. Because my finger is on the trigger to request my money back.
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on December 27, 2017, 07:30 PM:
 
Has anyone tried the modified firmwares?

I've uploaded a couple of new files - one is the original without any modification, that is, 960x720 4:3 at about half the bitrate of the modified ones, in case you want to go back to the maker's one. Beware that it doesn't has to be the same exact version you have, but I'm quite sure this one is one of the newest ones, as it allows cropping & more image sharpness settings.

There is another one I find very handy, in case you just want to convert to DVD. Adjust your cropping and start capturing - no need to convert the captured footage to DVD compliant resolution, avoiding resizing loses and an extra step which can be time-consuming. Oh, this is for PAL resolution (720x576); let me know if there's "market" for this and I'll upload a 720x480 version...

Sorry again but I'm short of time - as a last word, just to say that in the other forum there's people who says has flashed the Wolverine with the Somikon (https://www.pearl.de/support/product.jsp?pdid=NX4294) and getting 20 fps. Although I haven't checked it by myself and the firmware says @30fps when inspected. Also it is 14400 bps out of the box. Do at your own risk!

http://retromania.pandelground.com/wolverine-reels2digital-moviemaker
 
Posted by Kurt Froberg (Member # 5922) on December 28, 2017, 05:32 AM:
 
Hi Pere and thank you for your work with the firmware, very interesting!

I did a quick test with my Somikon HD-XL scanner and scanned around 30 sec of the same footage with:

- my original firmware for Somikon 1440 x 1080 30 fps
- the new f/w from Somikon with 1440 x 1080 20 fps
- your f/w 1440 x 1080 30 fps

The raw files properties showed like this:

- original Somikon 1440 x 1080: 30 fps, 14441 kbit/s
- new Somikon 1440 x 1080: 20 fps, 10003 kbit/s
- your 1440 x 1080: 30 fps, 16200 kbit/s

I then converted via MP4Box GUI all the files to 18 fps and the result was:

-original Somikon: 18 fps, 8851 kbit/s
- new Somikon: 18 fps, 8752 kbit/s
- your 1440 x 1080: 18 fps, 9929 kbit/s

Visually I can´t really see any difference between the clips. I guess it would need to be at least 20000 kbit/s at 18 fps to se a possible improvement but that is perhaps impossible with the current hardware?

Cheers
Kurt

[ December 29, 2017, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Kurt Froberg ]
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on December 28, 2017, 09:47 AM:
 
Hi Kurt,

The thing is that my modifications, although uploaded later, where done *before* the Somikon firmware was released. So now my firmwares are mostly unnecessary, as what most of people was demanding was 1080p resolution and higher bitrate. Once the Somikon firmware was proven compatible with the original Wolverine, both goals were accomplished without further "hacking"... :/

Anyway, I'm sharing them so people can choose mainly between different capture resolutions.

The original bitrate of the Wolverine was about half the new one, and yeah, compression artifacts were highly noticeable. The current bitrate is a very high one, so I'm sure no one would ever notice any improvement going from near 10000 to 20000. Also note that bitrate will unavoidably decrease with lower framerate - you need a less amount of bits to store the information since you have less frames to store. So, all in all, near 10000 bits for such a low frame rate is such a big amount of "space" to encode the information.
 
Posted by Joe Wein (Member # 6216) on December 29, 2017, 01:58 PM:
 
Hi Pere - do you happen to have any raw test footage from the 1080 version of the wolverine? I'd love to see the quality of those. Thanks!
 
Posted by Steve Thurlow (Member # 6240) on December 29, 2017, 02:04 PM:
 
I have just bought the new Wolverine Pro with 1080P. I have made 4 videos so far from Super8. All looks good and I happy with the quality. However I get memory card errors from time to time when recording. The machine stops and I restart and all is well for a few more minutes until it stops again with same error. This is a little annoying.

Any idea how to fix this?

I have tried several SD cards all formatted by this machine. I can stitch the videos together in software I know.
 
Posted by Joe Wein (Member # 6216) on December 29, 2017, 02:21 PM:
 
Hi Steve - Is there any footage you would feel comfortable sharing - I'd love to see the quality of a clip? Also, are the SD cards you're using the largest size and hit the speed recommendations?
quote:
I have just bought the new Wolverine Pro with 1080P. I have made 4 videos so far from Super8.

 
Posted by Steve Thurlow (Member # 6240) on December 29, 2017, 02:34 PM:
 
The cards I am using are 8GB SDHC Class 10
 
Posted by Joe Wein (Member # 6216) on December 29, 2017, 06:33 PM:
 
Hi Steve - While I haven't used the Wolverine, I believe it can take up to 32G cards and may use additional memory while creating the video file. I would try a bigger card...
 
Posted by Steve Thurlow (Member # 6240) on December 30, 2017, 09:19 AM:
 
The memory error seems to have gone away since I scanned a 5in reel which took about 3 hours.... all in one take. I created a 1GB file. I just sat and watched it and am thrilled with the video that I got.
 
Posted by Bill Pritchett (Member # 6234) on January 07, 2018, 06:02 PM:
 
Hey Steve, I have about 9k feet of film to convert and ready to order the Pro version in a week or so. How is it working for you now? Are you watching the digitals at the 20 fps or converting?
 
Posted by Steve Thurlow (Member # 6240) on January 08, 2018, 09:48 AM:
 
It is working well. I am pleased with the results. 20 fpm is so close to the original speed that it is hardly worth changing it but it is easy to do on the pc if you want to.
 
Posted by Stacey Henderson (Member # 6139) on January 08, 2018, 04:11 PM:
 
Greetings: After reading the topic since September, In late December I, bought the Woverine MovieMaker Pro. So far, I am getting good results, (I think). This is all new to me. I inherited a box of old 8mm film of my family from my uncle. I was viewing the films on the projector he also left to me, until the light bulb burned out on the third film. I learned getting a new bulb was going to be both difficult and expensive. So I bought the wolverine and plan to convert the whole box and send it out in digital form to the extended family.
What I'm looking for is help preparing the film for the scanning. It keeps getting stuck in the light table and stops. I've learned how to fix a bad splice by doing a new splice. (I did my first splice 3 days ago, and it worked well.)That is not the only issue when the film stops. Sometimes it seems to be sticky enough with this yellow stuff to stop the process. The last 400 foot roll I scanned stopped 41 times during the process!
I tried and can't seem to order the filmguard. It seems to be the best choice for a cleaner and preservative, but Amazon says it can't be sent to California, where I live. I do have denatured alcohol, but I'm scared to use it for fear of damaging these old films. Suggestions? Any help is appreciated!
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on January 08, 2018, 04:41 PM:
 
I run everything through an editor to be certain the splices are clean, sprocket holes are not torn, and to cut out any long black or clear sections. Then I rewind through a frame counter on all 5" or 7" reels so I know what to charge folks, as well as through a hand held lint free paper with a very inexpensive home-made cleaning solution consisting of 20% Mineral Oil and 80% of a 99% Isopropyl Alcohol (well shaken not stirred :-) Treated many thousand feet this way and no damage -- the very thin film of mineral oil keeps it feeding smoothly through the gate of a projector as well as the Wolverine. I think there is another forum topic on cleaning film you may also wish to view.
 
Posted by Gian Michele Soddu (Member # 6108) on January 09, 2018, 06:20 AM:
 
Hi Stacey Henderson, you may find most interesting the results of Kodak's research work regarding best solvents for
cleaning films: https://www.kodak.com/us/en/motion/support/people_and_planet/produc t_use/film_cleaning_solvents/default.htm
The last three members in the list are judged as excellent and not hazardous. Their content is pure isoparaffins=isoalkanes in the range C9-C11. For sure it is not easy to buy the cited solvents, especially if one cannot afford to buy a 200 liter barrel or live in countries like mine... BUT... we are smart people, are we? In facts, we can find an equivalent chemical composition in the best (= top quality class) liquid fuels for living room stoves! So here in Sardinia I found this at the supermarket, in a 5 litres bottle: http://www.tecnoairsystem.it/it/prodotto/petropur/petropur-platinum-348.html.
Here is an equivalent from The Nederlands, Firelux Clear, so pure because it has been sinthesized directly from gas: https://www.firelux.nl/en-us/use Cheers! gms
P.S.: Hi Alan Taplow, I humbly wish to point out that isopropyl alcohol, when not thoroughly removed from the film, serves as a water-absorber from air. And water accelerates the decomposition of acetate films (the dreadful, so called, vinegar syndrome). Wishing to be helpful. Cheers. gms

[ January 11, 2018, 04:46 AM: Message edited by: Gian Michele Soddu ]
 
Posted by Bill Pritchett (Member # 6234) on January 09, 2018, 08:22 AM:
 
Thanks for the response Steve. I'm in the same situation as Stacey...all new to this. Projector bulb blew when I first turned it on and then found DLJ bulbs expensive for the hours they last. This lead me to setting up to digitize the films.

The film prep and cleaning info is really helpful. I just bought an editor and splicer and plan on cleaning and reviewing the film before converting.

Thanks to all for the helpful info. Being that I'm totally new to the 8mm film world I'm soaking the info up like a sponge.

Regard,
Bill P.
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on January 09, 2018, 08:49 AM:
 
I have been using a product from Urbanski Films called Filmrenew for many years, with excellent results. Also, this from Urbanski sums up well how to clean your films:

FILM CLEANING TECHNIQUES AND TIPS
By Larry Urbanski
Urbanski Film
Many collectors and archivists have asked for basic instructions how to clean and preserve their motion picture films.
The most common method of film cleaning is accomplished by wiping films with a cloth soaked in film cleaner while rewinding the film using hand rewinds.

The film cleaning procedure requires some equipment all film collectors/archivists should have.
You’ll need a set of hand rewinds, film cleaner, cloths, and rubber gloves if desired.

Hand rewinds are made to accept film reels. By turning a handle the film is wound from one reel to another. These are usually mounted on a board or directly on a table. For film cleaning, table mount is recommended.

Cloths required should be 100% cotton cloth. Soft fluffy t-shirt or sweatshirt material works well and you can launder them when dirty. Rolls of film wipes can be purchased if desired.

There are several film cleaners on the market. We will discuss applying Filmrenew, which is a cleaner and preservative. Other film cleaners can be applied (Solvon, Renovex, RTI, Ecco, Edwal) using this same method. Other film cleaners are fast drying, and will dry immediately. Filmrenew is a slow drying product, taking several days to thoroughly dry.

Rubber gloves should be used if you are averse to getting chemicals on your hands.
Use all film cleaners in a well-ventilated area.

Films should be inspected and repaired before cleaning. Loose splices, nicks, and sprocket tears can snag the cloth when cleaning, tearing the film.

We are in front of our set of hand rewinds, one on the right, and one on the left.
Put your reel with film on the left side. I like the film coming off the top of the reel. Put your steel take up reel on the right side. The film should be wound off the top of the reel, clockwise, like this diagram. (Left reel 0***0 Right reel)

Moisten the cotton cloth in Filmrenew. Fold the cloth over the film. I create a “jaw” that covers the film in cloth, so that your thumb and fingers put pressure on both sides of the film. Wind the film slowly applying light pressure and evenly applying Filmrenew. Keep checking your cloth for dirt buildup. When the cloth starts to show dirt move your cleaning cloth to another position. Built up dirt and grit may scratch film! Re-apply more Filmrenew as necessary to keep the cloth and film moist.

Once the Filmrenew has been applied and is wound on the steel take-up, allow it to dry. Filmrenew has a long drying period, depending on your climate (usually a couple days). Once dry, rewind back to the original reel. Do not put the film in a can until completely dry.
If necessary, the drying process can be speeded up. You can immediately rewind back onto the original (steel) reel while buffing off excess Filmrenew with a dry cotton cloth.
If your films are on plastic reels use steel reels for the cleaning process. When the Filmrenew is dry, wind back on the plastic reels.

In some cases Filmrenew’s penetrating capabilities may loosen tape splices.
If you are using fast drying film cleaners (Solvon, Renovex, RTI, Ecco, Edwal), these products will not affect tape splices. It is recommended when cleaning film with ANY brand of film cleaner to use steel reels. Plastic reels may be used with Filmrenew if steel reels are not available for cleaning, but expect the plastic reel to become discolored.

Plastic reels may be used with fast dry cleaners if steel reels are not available for cleaning. Caution: When using a plastic reel with a fast dry cleaner, do not apply the fast drying cleaner too quickly. If the film is still wet while winding on to the plastic take-up reel, the film could stick to the sides of a plastic reel, damaging the film.

There are film applicator units that can be mounted between your rewinds to make the film cleaning process neater. Film cleaner is put in a bottle with an adjustable flow rate that wets cloths in a spring-loaded jaw. The film is pulled through the wet cloths by your rewinds, cleaning the film. The Ecco Model D Applicator can be used with any brand film cleaner.

Clean your films every couple years or more often if you notice dirt, warping, or noise while projecting. Clean films are less prone to damage. Your collection will retain its value, and your films will project better if you clean and maintain your prints.

Filmrenew is the only film cleaner you can use for soaking.
How to soak a film print in Filmrenew: After cleaning your film wind it tightly tails out (reverse wind) on a steel reel. Fill a lab can with Filmrenew and submerge the print. Let it sit in the closed can for a few weeks. Take the print out and let it dry for several days before rewinding. This process helps curl, shrinkage, and brittleness.

Filmrenew immediately kills mold and fungus. To remove mold and fungus soak the print for a minute or two to totally kill the mold and fungus. Immediately clean the print with a cloth moistened in Filmrenew as outlined in these instructions to remove dead fungus. If the film is on plastic reels it is recommended to replace the contaminated plastic reels. Steel reels, if not rusty, can be reused.

Filmrenew can be applied with a brush directly on the sides of a film for a quick protection application. The film may be immediately projected “wet” or allowed to dry. Obviously dirt is not removed from the film using this method.

**FILM CLEANING TIP. There is less chance of damage to very old archival sound film while hand cleaning with rewinds if you fold over your cloth on the sound side (not the sprocket side). If you are using square/square reels this can easily be done. This minimizes the possibility of the rag catching on a damaged sprocket and tearing the film while cleaning.

**FILM CLEANING TIP WITH FAST DRY CLEANERS. When using fast drying cleaners like Solvon, Renovex 2, RTI, Edwal, and Ecco care must be taken to make sure the film is completely dry when it is taken up on the rewind. If you apply a fast drying cleaner too quickly, and the film is still wet while winding on to the take-up reel, the film may stick together or the film could stick to the sides of a plastic reel, damaging the film.

**Filmrenew is safe for all film gauges and film stocks including but not limited to 8mm, Super 8mm, 16mm, 35mm, and 70mm. Filmrenew has tested safe for professionally applied magnetic soundtracks, such as Kodak sound stripe films or entertainment films sold by distributors. It is always recommended to spot clean a small section of a magnetic track if it may be an “after market” add on track.
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on January 09, 2018, 09:53 AM:
 
I apologize for helping to get this Wolverine thread off topic.
Those interested in cleaning may want to go to: http://8mmforum.film-tech.com and do a search on "film cleaning", where there are dozens of relevant postings. This thread should probably get back to discussing Wolverine.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on January 10, 2018, 12:41 AM:
 
quote:
but I have observed that also as it has been doing some, reels, begin the unrest and instability, that cough you have noticed in the Wolverine ...
I've found out the following: this mainly happens after splices and similar stuff. With the no-splice long films I've scanned so far (for example, some of the GDR DEF "Heimkino" travel stuff - for example the one (12.5 min at 20 fps) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Yl20Ayg4s ), nothing similar has happened.

The way I scan my home movies is as follows: just stop scanning at every splice, remove the film from the track and, after cleaning the dirt falled on the white screen below with a strong vacuum cleaner, place the film in the track again, but now just after the splice.

This has greatly reduced the cases I had to re-scan a given film because of the instability. (It still happens in about 20% of the cases. Nevertheless, it's now much rarer than previously, when I tried scanning entire 7" rolls in one step. The latter approach was also inferior in that the white diffusor screen also gathered a lot of dirt, falling from the film above, at the end of scanning, and this visibly deterioriated the output.)
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on January 20, 2018, 05:17 PM:
 
MacOS folks wanting to change the framerate of their files (Windows users: let me know if you need a similar tutorial for Windows as well!),

I've written a small shell script that iterates over the *.??4 files (meaning it'll match both .mp4 and .MP4) in the current directory, remuxes them with the fps 16 (you can, of course, use 18 instead by changing 16 to 18) and stores the results in the (previously-created) "output" directory.

1. Copy the following four rows in a text file ending at .sh (any name can be used). I assume the name "conv.sh" below. Copy it to your work directory.


#bash
for f in *.??4
do
./ffmpeg -y -i "$f" -c copy -f h264 tmp.avc
./ffmpeg -y -r 16 -i tmp.avc -c copy "output/$f"
done


2. In Console, in the same directory, issue the "chmod a+x filename" command; for example, in my case, "chmod a+x conv.sh". This will make it executable.

3. if the ffmpeg executable isn't in your path, copy it there or in the current directory. You can obtain the file directly from, say, http://ffbinaries.com/downloads (just click the "Download" button in the "ffmpeg" (first) column next to the "OS X (64 bit)" (last) row.) (Previously, I used the files at http://ffbinaries.com/downloads . The site is no longer maintained, it seems.)

4. Copy your source MP4 files in the directory and issue the "./conv.sh" command in Console. (Note the leading ./!)

This is by far easier for mass-transformation than using any GUI app.
 
Posted by Laurent Bellier (Member # 6286) on February 13, 2018, 04:13 PM:
 
Hi to all of you,

And first of all, a big Thank You! Indeed, it has been realy so great for me to have been able to learn and benefit from your so wide experiences!

A few words about my story:
I was in november 2017 at the point to convert an old second hand Heurtier 8mm/super 8 projector in order to convert some 8mm/super 8 family movies with my HD Cam. Then, a friend told me about this relativly new alternative of low cost scanner he's rent for a week end to proceed with a few reels scan. Finding this genius forum thanks to Google, I've been reading most of your previous posts (tough job, several long evenings....), and I've been convinced to change my initial plan, and invest in a Somikon HD XL 8mm film scanner 1080.
I've purchase a second hand 1 month old scanner on ebay, and ... its motor failed during the first reel scan... (Thanks to what I've lernt here, I was not fully surprised ....).

The original 2nd generation motor has been replaced by the 3rd generation motor by the initial vendor under its one year leagal warranty (PEARL near Paris in France), and I've finaly started scanning a dozen of reels.
 
Posted by Laurent Bellier (Member # 6286) on February 13, 2018, 04:21 PM:
 
Hi to all of you,

And first of all, a big Thank You! Indeed, it has been realy so great for me to have been able to learn and benefit from your so wide experiences!

A few words about my story:
I was in november 2017 at the point to convert an old second hand Heurtier 8mm/super 8 projector in order to convert some 8mm/super 8 family movies with my HD Cam. Then, a friend told me about this relativly new alternative of low cost scanner he's rent for a week end to proceed with a few reels scan. Finding this genius forum thanks to Google, I've been reading most of your previous posts (tough job, several long evenings....), and I've been convinced to change my initial plan, and invest in a Somikon HD XL 8mm film scanner 1080.
I've purchase a second hand 1 month old scanner on ebay, and ... its motor failed during the first reel scan... (Thanks to what I've lernt here, I was not fully surprised ....).

The original 2nd generation motor has been replaced by the 3rd generation motor by the initial vendor under its one year leagal warranty (PEARL near Paris in France), and I've finaly started scanning a dozen of reels.

Then my question:
I'm now in “stand-by mode” on this scan project, because wondering if my scanner is working properly. I've noticed that the scan picture are relativly "noizy" (I mean by "noizy" the picture random disturbance resulting from the scann that reduce picture quality). I've notice that first when playing the scan movies, then I've looked deeper picture by picture trying to understand, and comparing with results from other on this post or on youtube.
My temporary conclusion at that point:
the focus seems to be OK,
the picture contrast and luminosity are quiet good,
changing from low quality to medium or high quality on the device menue do not change significantly the problem.

Looking again on the internet, I feel there are two different kinds of scanned movies:
Some looking very close to my own results (whatever coming from Somikon, Wolverine, or Reflecta devices) , i.e. whith rather high level of digital noize, like original scans.
Some with very low level of digital noize, but also I feel with not so”sharp” pictures. My understanding is that to obtain that, they have using digital post processing of the scan movies (reducing digital noize, and also unfortunately loosing picture details)

In order to illustrate, I will try uploading here two differents samples extracted from the scan movies (obtained directly by screnn copy on my PC, and I'm trimming the sample picture in order to keep the resolution, whil complying to the 555 pixel wide picture rule of this forum:
First picure is an extract of a family movie I've scanned:
 -

The second sample is what I'm obtaining when scanning just the empty scanner windows (i.e. just after the reel tape has escape from the scanner at the end of a scan run):
 -

I've been surprised to visualise the same “noizy effect” on the “empty” picture I was expected to be completely white (the strange unexpected pattern visible here is different from one picture to another within a scan file, resulting in moving pattern when playing the “empty” movie. I've never observed anything like that with my Sony Full HD Camcorder, except in very very dark conditions.

So, am I really expecting too much from this 8mm/super 8 scanning method, or is my device different than yours, or should I wait one or two more years for the equipement/technology to improve?
 
Posted by Dan Esmond (Member # 3975) on February 14, 2018, 05:21 PM:
 
Hi Laurent,

That noise you are seeing is compression artifacts from the too-low MP4 bitrate these devices use. People have complained about it ever since these were first introduced in late 2016. Unfortunately, there are no real solutions, as Wolverine etc. claim that it is impossible to increase the bitrate any higher to reduce the noise.

The High/Medium/Low setting you speak of I believe is the sharpness control, not picture quality. I and others have found that using the Low setting reduces the prominence of the noise artifacts (they are still present but adding sharpness makes them more visible). The side effect of that is a "softer" looking movie.

An ideal solution would have been for these machines to have an option to just write out each frame as a JPEG image on the SD card. Then, users could compile those images back into a movie on their computers at whatever bitrate/format/frame rate they choose. Of course that would not be user friendly for novices.

I spent several years trying to devise a telecine device to transfer my parents' & grandparents' films, but never had the time and expertise needed to get it done and working acceptably. Meanwhile, the Wolverine device came onto the market and I just decided that it was more important to get the films digitized so that I could share them with my family.

I have done that now, and am putting each film on youtube. Some of the films are over 70 years old and it is providing my family members so much joy to re-live those old times.

However, I remain quite dissatisfied with the picture quality of the Wolverine. So even though I have transferred all of the films with it I have committed to myself that I will scan them again once a better device is available.

With technology now it really would be possible to come up with a much "smarter" scanner--one that uses the optics to achieve precise alignment by lining up the edges of each frame (and then no need to use a claw at all which would allow scanning of films with torn sprockets and/or warping due to vinegar syndrome). It could also overcome the dynamic range problems by using an HDR technique--scanning each frame twice (once with underexposure, and then again with overexposure and then combining the two). Professional-level telecine devices are already using these techniques. With the success of the Wolverine/Somikon devices maybe they will work on making even better scanners.

I think the reason the Wolverine gets good reviews on amazon is because people are just amazed to be able to watch their old movies again--they aren't concentrating on the detailed image quality. Plus, compared to all previous DIY methods or sending off your films to a service, the Wolverine is very cheap and easy for a perfectly watchable result.

Aa a film aficionado, I know that there is more quality in these 8mm/Super-8 films that the Wolverine isn't capturing. When I was working on capturing via DSLR and an enlarging lens I was able to see the actual film grain--the Wolverine doesn't show that. Not to mention the problems the Wolverine has with auto-exposure (another issue which cannot be adjusted nor disabled).

So is the Wolverine a worthy method of archiving these old movies forever? My answer to that is no. To me, archiving means capturing digitally all of the analog quality that is there, and the Wolverine does not do that.

But it is (relatively) cheap and easy to use. If I waited years for a more archival quality transfer, some family members who would really enjoy seeing those films may die or lose their sight, etc. So for me, I decided the Wolverine was a decent compromise for now so that I could share these memories with loved ones (none of whom have even noticed the deficient picture quality). Hopefully someday I will get another transfer that satisfies my high standards.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on February 14, 2018, 05:42 PM:
 
Laurent, are you absolutely sure you have the latest firmware, with the bumped-up, 9 Mbps bitrate and 20 fps?

With it, you shouldn't see THIS much compression artefacts when shooting with NO film (not even a transparent area of the film). An example I've just digitized - a 1:1 crop of a framegrab, without any kind of resizing; that is, one pixel corresponds in this image to one pixel in the original video:

 -

Note that I deliberately selected an area with some dirt fallen from the previously-scanned film. As you can see, my results do exhibit some artefacts but the frame is definitely cleaner than in your crop.

These kinds of compression artefacts (in both images) are more likely attributable to the extremely high (automatic) contrast the firmware tries to apply to extremely homogenous input (resulting from only shooting the white diffusor under the film gate) like this. For example, the dirt speckles aren't at all noticeable in the digitized film (that is, when there's some actual film in the digitized footage) showing the contrast bump wasn't that huge there. The artefacts you see there are more like plain film grain and can easily be cleaned up with, say, Neat Video. (See my and Berend De Meyer's examples at 8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=011636 ) IMHO, Neat Video is a must if one scans film and wants to get rid of the grain.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on February 15, 2018, 04:14 AM:
 
I am very tempted to try the homebrew firmware upgrade for the wolverine.
I am thinking of the 1440x1080 16000 bitrate version.
Has anyone tried this yet? any advice welcome, as to if it is better than my default firmare.
thanks
I can't afford to 'crash' my machine as I have just been given 85 50ft reels to scan.
firmware page from retromania
 
Posted by Antoine Orsero (Member # 41) on February 15, 2018, 08:25 AM:
 
I don't trust all these machines to scan super8 movies.
I use: a foot for camera, the projection screen, my GS1200 and a Canon camera that can also film. See the result after passing on Power Director 15. What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_G8KqfppaU
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on February 15, 2018, 10:12 AM:
 
I think that looks very good.
My only criticism would be the frame size, compared to what I get from the wolverine.

You have done a really good job reducing the shutter flicker.
Lovely vivid colours.

It's nice to see some home movies keep thier colour after all of these years.

As for not trusting 'these machines' to scan your films, they do do a very good job, here is a super8 example of films I have scanned with the wolverine.

892 squadron navy lads on the beach in St Thomas. 1978. HMS Ark Royal.

However, it's clear to see the compression artifacts in my example, which are absent in your clip

wolverine example at you tube
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on February 15, 2018, 11:23 AM:
 
"It's nice to see some home movies keep thier colour after all of these years."

Fortunately, home movies are far better than commercial stuff released after 1950'ish. I've scanned tons of different amateur stock (ORWO 15 Std8, Agfachrome 18 S8 and Kodachrome S8, the oldest (Kodachrome) having been shot in 1967); all of them had proper colors.
 
Posted by Dan Esmond (Member # 3975) on February 15, 2018, 11:41 AM:
 
Neat Video and other software plugins can help lessen the prominence of the compression artifacts. But they can never recover the detail lost to those artifacts in the first place. It's a garbage in->garbage out type situation. The problem with these machines is they produce mp4 files that are bitrate-starved. Compression artifacts are the result when there is too much detail for the capture settings to reproduce accurately. Yes you can make them look a little bit better but that does not fix the actual underlying problem: that detail was never captured by the wolverine in the first place--it's permanently lost.

It would be like copying a master audio recording onto an old cheap cassette using a tape player with dirty, worn heads. You could import that cassette into a computer and try to clean it up, but much of the original sound quality has been permanently lost due to the transfer method.

Software plugins can actually improve on the *original* when you have a high quality reproduction to work with (in the above analogy, like a studio remastering a recording). Some of the results I've seen from VideoFred's avisynth plugins are incredible. But the Wolverine gives you an inferior starting point. Thus any tweaks you are making are mainly to attempt to lessen the flaws the Wolverine itself introduced.

I have not had the guts to try a hacked firmware either, though I am very glad people smarter than I are working on it. Because aside from the jittery/wobbly capture issue, the bitrate is the primary problem with these devices. It would also be wonderful if the auto-exposure and auto-white balance could be turned off but that's not useful without controls to adjust them manually through the UI.

Mainly, I just hope this becomes a profitable market for the manufacturer(s) such that they invest the resources to keep making them better. It's an ingenious design but there is so much room for improvement.

By all means, buy one and use it to get your footage digitized so you can share it with friends and family. These old films do no one any good sitting in their canisters unwatched. If you have a discerning eye though, do yourself a favor and hold onto the original films so you can give them a better transfer when a better method becomes available. The Wolverine/Somikon machines are not capturing all of the detail 8mm/Super-8 has to offer.
 
Posted by Antoine Orsero (Member # 41) on February 15, 2018, 11:43 AM:
 
I have not changed the framing but I can do it easily with the Virtualdub software provided that the video is in AVI.
Here's the result with Virtaldub. The black bars you see it's Youtube that put them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW38buYsJr4
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on February 15, 2018, 11:56 AM:
 
virtualDub is the most amazing video tool
But as you say, avi.
I spent 18 months on a timelapse project.
Nothing to do with 8mm.
I could not have done it without VirtualDub

VirtualDub video
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on February 15, 2018, 03:52 PM:
 
quote:
I am very tempted to try the homebrew firmware upgrade for the wolverine.
I am thinking of the 1440x1080 16000 bitrate version.
Has anyone tried this yet? any advice welcome, as to if it is better than my default firmare.

Firmware flashing etc. went without a hitch. The GUI differences from the latest (20 fps) Somikon version:

- no waiting before fast forward starts - this is great

- no countdown on-screen any more during scanning - this is pretty bad as, unless you have an external clock, you won't know how much film has already been digitized.

For example, I took advantage of the clock a lot to keep track of the next split so that I know when I should come to overwatch the scanner whether everything is OK after the split. Most of my films are just joined-together std8/super8 films, meaning splits are at regular, highly predictable intervals.

To be able to do the same with this firmware, I need to use an external clock now.

A definite advantage of the hacked firmware is it being 30 fps, which is natively supported by FCPX. This means no framerate conversion will take place (meaning additional frames added by FCPX and introducing stuttering) if you don't want to change it but, say, only clean up noise / crop / stabilize etc. For the same to be done with the original 20 fps videos, you will first need to repack the h.264 stream first - via, say, my ffmpeg script above. Doing this with the latter is very fast and simple (without any quality decrease) but still requires an additional step.

With regard to the image quality, I couldn't discern much quality difference between the two versions. I'd say they're on par. Feel free to check out framegrab pairs of exactly the same input frames. They're from the following two scans:

20 fps (original FW)

30 fps 16 Mbps hacked

These are both original, out-of-scanner files (the 20fps has been trimmed by QuickTime. No quality changes as simple trimming doesn't re-encode the video.).
 
Posted by Laurent Bellier (Member # 6286) on February 15, 2018, 04:28 PM:
 
Thanks a lot, it's wonderful to receive so accurate and documented answers to my question,

Dan:
I will then probably arrive to the same conclusion as yours: in this case, not putting to much effort (or any effort at all) in trying to correct something that in not feasable, but continuying scanning “as it is” in order to share with my brothers and they children movies, the oldest from the 50's showing my great-great father....
(And I'm also afraid that whith “post treatment”, improving one parameter if often obteined by loosing one anoter one, i.e. reducing efficiently noize created by compression artifact, might result in visible picture detail losses).

Werner:
Might differences between our results be also the result of a different light intensity setting? Despite your picture is more “white” and mine “gray”, the pixel size looks the same to me, the contrast of the noize pattern being much higer for mine.
The properties ot the video files I've obtained are 1440x1080, 9724 Kbits/s, 20,00 frames/s (when checking the file properties with microsoft windows): is there anything else to check?

Mike:
I share the same tentation as yours with the firmware upgrade to 16000 bitrate version (But my scanner is Somikon branded, not wolverine as yours, I'm not sure is the firmaware beahviour can be the same....?)

Antoine:
Your picture quality in term of noize level looks perfect, just as I would expect if using my Sony Full HD Cam corder. Have you applied some noize filter, or is it just “as scanned”? (I don't know Power Director 15 ).
On the other hand, we can observe some resulting “flicker” that is not obtained when using the picture by picture scanner.

I can share with you below another sample, that I've obtained around 10 years ago, with a different process: the “famous” converting box with a 45° etche glass, with the projecteur at one side, and the camcorder a 90° located other side. I was using at that time only a 8 mm DV video camcorder (ie picture definition= 720x576 pixels/picture):
I'm feeling Flicker is horrible (of course not visible on this still picture ;+)
Pixel size is visible because of the lower definition
(But the noize level was however lower than with the Sominkon HD 1080 scanner)

Compare with that, I feel that despite compression artefact, Somikon scanned picture will give a much higher quality video...

 -
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on February 15, 2018, 04:33 PM:
 
Dan Esmond, I don't mean to be rude, but I think you are misleading people with some of your comments. The bitrate limitation has been sorted out months ago both with homebrew firmwares (like the ones I posted) or with the original Somikon update. You don't need any guts for testing them - apart from being already tested by many using thus being safe, there's no way your machine can be broken as even after flashing your machine with a non-working, defective or corrupted firmware will let you to flash it again with your original firmware (I did it dozens of times while experimenting).

And, as Werner already noted, those artifcats are not only due to compression, as they still exist somehow in 9 Mbps firmware. That's such a high bitrate that it proves it coudln't be due to compression at all.

In my opinion, the capture example by Antoine is of much less quality than what you can get with the Wolverine. Didn't anyone notice that big amount of flickering?
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on February 15, 2018, 05:18 PM:
 
quote:
In my opinion, the capture example by Antoine is of much less quality than what you can get with the Wolverine. Didn't anyone notice that big amount of flickering?
Agreed. Antoine's YouTube video is of MUCH lower quality of what is achievable via the Somikon/Wolverine.

BTW, I've just uploaded some new scans. The first is the full version of the Austrian flypast (flyover) (shot in the 1970's) film I've already posted some scans of (to Google Drive), with additional 60p optical flow and stabilization in FCPX.

Link

Note: due to the excessive dirt on the film, I scanned this in two steps (cleaning the gate in between). This is why there's a temporary jump in the auto color temperature at around 01:48.

EDIT:

And here's a Finnish film scan of the same subject (shot around 1980), demonstrating whether my PP attempts were successful (in this case, nope):

1. directly the scanner's output at 18 fps (framerate changed by my ffmpeg script above):

Link

2. the same with an added 60p Optical Flow in FCPX 10.4 to make the framerate much-much better:

Link

As you can see, as opposed to the Austrian 60p + stabilized scan above, not even this has worked. The results are sometimes absolutely awful with major artefacts.

3. and, finally, a 60p Optical Flow (see previous step) + stabilized version:

Link

This version is atricous with some MAJOR cropping - again, the FCPX results of the Austrian one is orders of magnitude better.

The Finnish example shows in some cases Optical Flow can cause awful results. In those cases, it's just safer to stick with the original 18p framerate.
 
Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on February 15, 2018, 06:20 PM:
 
You can actually edit file formats other than AVI in VirtualDub if you use Avisynth.

Here is the Avisynth scrip to open a .mp4 file in Virtualdub. Install AviSynth. Create a text file with the script I show below substituting your actual file path name. Name it something like VirtualDub-MP4.avs

DirectShowSource("C:\[directory-pathname]\[filename.avi]")

Drag the .avs directly onto the VDub icon if you have it on your desktop or open Vdub and drag the .avs file into Vdub.
 
Posted by Dan Esmond (Member # 3975) on February 15, 2018, 10:22 PM:
 
Pere Pasqual there is no need for any of us to be rude, as we are all just sharing information and opinions on this web site. Perhaps I left you and others with the impression that the Wolverine produces extremely poor results--if that is the case then I apologize for not being clearer. Let me state it equivocally:

The Wolverine (I have not tried the Somikon or anything other than stock Wolverine firmware) produces files that are perfectly fine for sharing on youtube, etc. with friends and family. My transfers have been shared with many people and so far no one has said anything other than that they are amazed to see these old films again after so many years.

Compared to old VHS telecines, filming off the wall or mirror boxes like Laurent mentions, the Wolverine is quite an improvement indeed. The classic flicker problem inherent in the inability to sync frame rates is solved and there is finally an easy, cheap method for the end user to do a frame-by-frame scan, which is how film should be digitized.

My point was that the noise/compression artifacts/whatever is created by the Wolverine unit--it is not film grain and it is not present in the film itself. Whatever is causing it (I maintain it bears all the hallmarks of low-bitrate compression) it is causing a reduction in picture quality on the resulting transfers. To someone who is eyeing detail it is obvious and distracting. You have admitted yourself that the resulting movies from machines running hacked firmware still show artifacts, so I'm not sure why you think my complaints are unjustified. The artifacts (whatever their cause) are a deficiency/limitation of these units that up to now have not been fully resolved by yourself or anyone else. So my point to Laurent (and others reading who are considering buying one of these) are that for now you just have to accept that your videos from these machines will have those artifacts in them. You can try to reduce them using software plugins but (as Laurent mentioned) but you will not eliminate them completely without causing other problems.

And that's not even mentioning the other issues afflicting these units--the jumpiness/wobbly issue which has been widely discussed here is a big one. Some films I had to scan 3 or 4 times to get a transfer that was stable. The auto white balance has also been an issue (although I think it has been improved in more recent firmware releases), where colors shift in the middle of a scene. Along those same lines, the auto-exposure in these machines can also easily get fooled and you end up with alternating dark and light frames in a single scene.

My hesitation with the firmware situation is that with the Wolverine machines at least, the different hardware revisions use different firmware files. My friend has one of the oldest belt-driven models and mine is the model that used gears instead. Wolverine sent me a firmware update last year that worked fine on my unit but caused my cousin's to lock up hard. Fortunately I was able to flash it with the correct firmware file after Wolverine sent it to me. But it made me quite hesitant to flash anything unofficial because I'm sure Wolverine would not support it in that case. I do not know if the hacked firmwares can be used on all the hardware generations of the Wolverine but I was not prepared to risk my warranty to take a guess.

My overall point here (perhaps missed in all my wordiness) is that 8mm and Super-8 films can look incredible with a very high quality frame-by-frame transfer using low compression in both the luma and chroma layers. In my opinion, the Wolverine unit does not give such a. high quality transfer. But no consumer-level product does (and some professional transfers may even be worse) with perhaps the exception of the $1000 Reflecta Super 8 scanner--but it is much more expensive, can't do Regular-8 and has its own reliability issues.

I think people should buy the Wolverine and use it to transfer their films so they can be enjoyed, especially by lay people who have lower expectations. But if you are an aficionado and lover of the inherent beauty of film (which I think many people who come to this site are), you should not expect the Wolverine unit to give you results that fully capture everything the film has to offer. My hope is that someday such a transfer will be readily attainable with more innovation, but we are not there yet.

If you feel differently than I do, that's fine. To some degree this is subjective. But I do not think I am misleading people at all by pointing out the flaws with these machines. To the contrary, I have done a great deal of research and everything I shared was my personal hands-on experience. Hope it helps someone.

Edit: I think this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj9rApV_Yx4), which shows a side-by-side comparison of a professional transfer vs. the same film transferred by the Wolverine shows quite clearly that the Wolverine doesn't capture all of the quality in the original film. Is it good enough for most uses? Absolutely, especially for the price and ease of use. But I think eventually we will have machines that will capture with quality comparable to professional frame-by-frame transfers.
 
Posted by Morgan Evans (Member # 6321) on February 20, 2018, 07:20 PM:
 
I wanna thank everyone for this thread— been learning a lot.

I've successfully flashed my Wolverine (the newer one, with the fan) using the Retromania tools.

I was curious as to if anyone has any advice... I've been shooting a lot of Kodak 50D which is a color negative film— when I scan the film it's VERY red, and obviously negative— when I invert, I'm not getting an accurate color pallet instead it's insanely blue. Like a film over everything— I can color correct a bit, trying to find true white (I'm using Adobe Premiere and Resolve)— but it ends up just looking horrendous.

I know it's not the camera itself because I've gotten these rolls scanned at Pro8mm and they look fantastic and really well color balanced.

I partially feel this is happening because the light on the Wolverine just isn't bright enough, and also probably because I'm not great a color correcting.

Just wanted to see if anyone who is shooting Color Neg has any pointers for how to get accurate color after scanning on the wolverine.

Thanks!
 
Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on February 20, 2018, 09:32 PM:
 
Hi Morgan and welcome to the forum. I've done a lot of color correcting with Premiere. The type of correction depends on the colors of the scan itself. It might be easier to offer suggestions if you could post some sample pics. Also describe the process you are doing now.

[ February 20, 2018, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on February 26, 2018, 01:31 PM:
 
quote:
Along those same lines, the auto-exposure in these machines can also easily get fooled and you end up with alternating dark and light frames in a single scene.
Incidentally, does anyone know of an “’exposure pumping’ remover” plug-in / process for any video editor (preferably FCPX, but anything else will do)? This kind of exposure pumping is indeed a serious one with these scanners. For example, in the video https://youtu.be/S5682D__zB4 (60p, cropped version with FCPX’s Optical Flow processing; original out-of-scanner one, with 18p header: https://youtu.be/_rIMal9dll8 ), there are several scenes with “pumping”.

For example, the one starting at 03:08, of which the original scanner output is the following:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=16kXnEA7rsjTFTFAUhkjgNCsQ77dFd3uz

and the original of the second one, where no less than three(!) scenes suffer from this problem and starting at 07:50,

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vs93FbIenWs4fL12aFFovagCdtQ8kRPE

I’ve searched high and low but to no avail. (Found https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1217300 but nothing else.)
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on February 27, 2018, 11:41 AM:
 
The constant dirt buildup on the white light diffusor under the gate, necessiating frequent scan stops, film gate cleans and scan restarts, got me thinking.

Certainly the way standard projectors work should be used - or, for that matter, the only scanner I know of to have a vertically-aligned light source (the $900 Reflecta one). What about making our Somikon / Wolverine's diffusor vertical, then? Easily (the two shots also show my other tweaks: strong clips and blocking the take-up reel NOT to add additional tension to the film, making the insecure film transportation even worse):

 -

 -

I'm happy to report that dirt buuildup is almost entirely gone.

EDIT: I've already mentioned the take-up reel should be disabled for as wobble-free scanning as possible. SOme other people have done exactly the same observation. An excerpt from the now-latest review at amazon.de :

"Vermutlich durch den zu starken Zug der Aufwickelspule ruckeln die produzierten Videos zum Teil grauenhaft. Ich habe deshalb den zu scannenden Film nicht aufwickeln, sondern in eine Plastikwanne laufen lassen. Das hat das Ergebnis verbessert, es ist mir aber trotzdem nach zahlreichen Versuchen niemals gelungen, einen vollkommen ruckelfreien Film zu erzeugen."

That is, "Probably due to the strong strain of the take-up reel, the scanned videos jerk sometimes horribly. That's why I did not made the film to be taken up by the take-up reel but let it run in a plastic tub. This has improved the result, but I have still NEVER managed, after many attempts, to create a completely smooth film."

[ February 27, 2018, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Werner Ruotsalainen ]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on March 01, 2018, 10:29 AM:
 
I get around the dust on films with a very soft natural hair brush, and a blob of blu tac to hold the brush in place.
I also dust out the gate between each movie..
This works a treat

As for the take up issue, I would be inclinded to put a switch on the take up motor lead so you can physically turn if off rather than strain it and just let it get hot for a few hours while scanning.

I don't have a problem with take up tension, seems fine on my wolverine......

I have done two anti clockwise turns on the gate screws to increase the pressure on the film, as advised by wolverine, that seems to work.... However I am not completely jitter free.

 -
 
Posted by James Christie (Member # 6377) on March 12, 2018, 12:08 PM:
 
Hi, this my first post so hoping I’m not going against any forums rules. Just looking for some advice from the collective minds on the thread.

I’ve just ordered a Wolverine from AmazonUS. My aim is to digitise my Grandpas old 8mm reels (around 20 or so) My Grandma turns 90 this year and it would be great for her to see them again.

Suppose what I’m looking for is best practice. How can I achieve the best results without too much experimenting. For instance I’ve read through the thread regarding the firmware mods. Do they genuinely improve the quality and is it worth doing? Also what are the best settings when it comes to capturing the footage? Are you better using low sharpness and adding in Final Cut later?

And when it comes to the reels, they have been stored in a cardboard box but have been in an attic for a long time. The earliest date I’ve found on one is 1968...but there could be earlier. Am I best attempting to clean them before scanning? Ive watched videos on YouTube of people using a tmicrofibre cloth and cleaning solution (I’ve already ordered a bottle from eBay) and running it through the cloth. Is this best way? Can I damage it doing this?

That’s all the questions I have...for now 😀

Any advice greatly received
James
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on March 12, 2018, 02:18 PM:
 
I would use the default settings for the first scan of reel one.
Keep a soft hair brush handy to keep the gate area clean.
I also place a soft hair brush in the film path to take out any debris on the way thro the scanner.
Do not use the scanner to rewind if you have a projector handy.
The wolverine struggles to rewind, and does not apply enough tension to get a decent rewind.

Scan a movie at default settings, then give us your thoughts and questions...
Good Luck!
 
Posted by Dan Esmond (Member # 3975) on March 12, 2018, 03:06 PM:
 
Hi James,

Mike Spice provided good advice. What cleaning solution did you buy? I'm sure there are several that will work, and as long as it says it's meant for (and safe for) film it should be fine. I used Edwal Anti-stat and had very good results with it. Only caveat I would say with most cleaning solutions is that they're highly volatile so I would do it in a very ventilated area. I did it at the bathroom sink with the fan on--I also kept the lid on the container of fluid except for when I was soaking the cloth.

I cleaned most of my films using an old cotton t-shirt (make sure it's 100% cotton) cut into strips, but you can also buy PEC Pads pretty cheaply on Amazon. Those are meant for cleaning film so you can bet they won't scratch it. The key with either is to keep adjusting it as you go so you're not re-depositing dirt on subsequent sections of film. Might not be a bad idea to keep the cloth saturated with solution while cleaning on a forward pass, then for the rewind use much less so that your cloth can soak up any solution that remains on the film. The Edwal I used evaporates very quickly so I never had that problem.

I think cleaning is really important if you want a good result. Because 8mm film frames are so small, even a single speck of dust can and will show up. You might think "oh well that's just one frame", but the way the Wolverine works, if that speck of dust falls down onto the light table it will show up in lighter scenes of every subsequent frame. This happened to me on several films even though I cleaned them all. People have posted on previous pages some unique methods to prevent this problem (holding the machine up vertically or positioning a brush to gently rub the film right before it enters the gate--wish I had thought of that!

I think a near-essential purchase for anyone using the Wolverine is a set of manual rewinds. You can find them on ebay or just buy an old vintage film editor (you may or may not want to use the editor part of it, but it has rewinds built in). That's what you will use to clean and inspect the reels (more on that in a sec) but as Mike said it's also the best way to rewind each film after it's done transferring. Not only does the wolverine have kind of a wimpy motor, rewinding on it is a PITA because you have to swap the reels around. You could of course use a projector to rewind but it's better to just get a set of rewinds.

I can't comment on the hacked firmware as I never tried it, and I actually finished my transfer project fall of last year before there was much progress on that front. But even if you don't go that route you might email Wolverine support and find out if there are any official firmware updates for your machine. They released two updates during the year last year and their web site doesn't mention anything about them. You have to email them, unfortunately. But they were very responsive every time I sent them an email.

As for the sharpness setting, that's going to come down to personal preference. It defaults to Medium so maybe transfer a small section of film at Medium, High and Low and see what each one looks like to you. For me, the Low setting minimized the noise artifacts and the other settings emphasized them, so Low is what I went with. I tried adding a bit of sharpness back via FCPX but not much. One other note on that (maybe it's been fixed in newer firmware) but my machine would not stay on Low sharpness after a power cycle. Every other setting would stick, but unless I went into the menus and re-selected Low sharpness, the films would end up at Medium... which was so annoying because I wouldn't know until after the film had already transferred. Then I'd have to re-scan it. I ended up putting a Post-It note on my machine to remind me to reselect the sharpness setting.

Another good use of a set of rewinds or an editor is examining the films for sprocket damage, bad splices, etc. The Wolverine absolutely will choke on torn sprocket holes. It will get stuck and just scan the same frame over and over again until you pull the film forward with your fingers. I had several films with such damage and chose to "fix" them using Kodak splice tapes. Those tapes are meant for joining tape edits/cuts together but they have pre-perforated sprocket holes so you can also use them to reinforce torn sprockets. They're meant to be applied to both sides of the film (and you should do that if joining film segments) but for fixing the sprockets enough for the claw in the Wolverine to detect them I found that just applying them to one side worked fine enough.

If your grandpa's films have old tape splices in them it's highly probable they'll have lost their adhesion and will break. Or if they were carelessly applied in the first place the wolverine might choke on them and get stuck. So unless you want to just deal with that by babysitting the machine and moving the film forward when it gets stuck you may want to buy a splicer and a bunch of Kodak PressTapes (easily found on eBay--make sure you get the right type for your film--is it 8mm, Super-8 or a mix of both?)

This is up to you but you may want to explore the Frame Adjust feature in the menu to widen the captured area to include the entire image. I was amazed that my Dad's Kodak Escort 8 camera exposed the film almost all the way to the left edge (between the sprocket holes). It may not seem like a big deal but by including that area in my finished films I am actually able to achieve very close to a 16:9 image, which better fits today's screens. You can always crop it back out later, but I felt it was better to get the entire visible image in the capture.

The only caveat with doing that (especially with Regular 8's huge sprocket holes) is that including them in the capture can throw off the auto-exposure in these machines and darken the image a bit. I usually adjusted the exposure compensation to +1 on my dad's films which I had zoomed out to capture the entire film width. You will just need to experiment with it.

I assume you already know the regular wolverine can't do 8" reels. The new Pro model can, or you can rig something up to do them on the smaller machine, or break the big reels down into several smaller ones.

Well that's probably quite enough for one post. I think it's awesome you're doing this for your grandma--she's going to love it. And you'll probably love it too, even though this kind of project ends up taking a lot of time and quite a bit of money. It's totally worth it though. Hope you'll keep us updated on your progress and feel free to ask any other questions you have.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on March 13, 2018, 01:55 PM:
 
quote:
I was amazed that my Dad's Kodak Escort 8 camera exposed the film almost all the way to the left edge (between the sprocket holes). It may not seem like a big deal but by including that area in my finished films I am actually able to achieve very close to a 16:9 image, which better fits today's screens. You can always crop it back out later, but I felt it was better to get the entire visible image in the capture.

The only caveat with doing that (especially with Regular 8's huge sprocket holes) is that including them in the capture can throw off the auto-exposure in these machines and darken the image a bit. I usually adjusted the exposure compensation to +1 on my dad's films which I had zoomed out to capture the entire film width. You will just need to experiment with it.

Yes, several Kodak models did the same; for example, the Brownie. I too made use of the exposed area between the sprocket holes and continuously used +1 exp. compensation. The blacks on the Wolverine easily get "crushed", unlike the highlights, which not that easily burn out (compared to blacks crushing); +0.5EV is, therefore, a standard setting for me. When scanning Brownie material, to account for the global exposure value's decreasing because of the large-area white holes, I dialed in another +0.5EV.

An example of such footage:

my own scan:

16p: https://youtu.be/9z7Cd9A44a0 (direct, non-cropped scanner output with 20->16p framerate header conversion via my ffmpeg script; huge overscan with w=0)
60p ("Optical Flow" in FCX 10.4 + vertical crop): https://youtu.be/at6F70cUihs

Phil Vigeant's scan (it might be a Brownie too; note that he hasn't used as large overscanning as me): https://vimeo.com/238321856/

quote:
My aim is to digitise my Grandpas old 8mm reels (around 20 or so)
If you meant Standard and not Super8: Note that originally Double-8mm film (99% of the currently available Standard 8mm footage) was slit in half, which is inherently a non-precise process. Therefore, your films may get stuck. You will, if this often happens, need to either send in the device to Wolverine so that they widen the film channel or you do it yourself. See my lengthy post on the fourth page of the Somikon topic ( http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=011449;p=4 ) for more info.

[ March 13, 2018, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Werner Ruotsalainen ]
 
Posted by John Richard Almond (Member # 2939) on March 14, 2018, 06:03 PM:
 
I am reading this thread with great interest, I have not posted on here for quite a while but I always bob in now and then.
I have attempted to copy some of my own films from the 70s and the results have been ok but I would like to try the wolverine or the other scanners that are or look the same.
The thing is I have only about 9 50 foot reels to copy and I dont really want to buy a new machine so if anyone in the UK are willing to let one go then I am in the market to buy and when I have done I am willing to sell on the machine to anyone else that is in the same situation I am in.

Many thanks guys.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on March 15, 2018, 11:42 AM:
 
John Richard Almond you could always send them to me.
I have been charging £2 per 50ft reel plus P+P
Send me a blank disc to burn them to, as mp4 files, not a 'dvd'
I am in west sussex.
You can find my facebook group via my youtube page if you are interested, and see work I have done for others.
Scroll down to the links on the you tube page to find my Super8 Rescue group

Mike Spice You Tube

Super8 rescue FB group
 
Posted by Laurent Bellier (Member # 6286) on March 15, 2018, 04:51 PM:
 
Hi to all of you,

While understanding we canno't expect more frome this device than what it can delivered, I've however tried to chalange the assumption that the observed noize level is a consequence of the too low bitrate. So I've done exactly the same trial as Werner Ruotsalainen posted February 15, 2018 03:52 PM applied to the same family movie sample that I've poste before:
My first post posted February 13, 2018 04:21 PM was using the Official Somikon Firmware for my somikon scanner (the one issued on October, 17th, 2017, i.e. the Somikon release delivering a 20 frames/s 1440x1080 mp4 movie at 9843 kbits/s)
In the today post, I'm dowloading the modified firmware for the wolverine scanner ( delivering a 30 frames/s 1440x1080 mp4 movie at 16370 kbits/s) (One funny thing: the Somikon device now claim he is a «Wolwerine» scanner when starting)

I've the same conclusion as Werner Ruotsalainen: I cannot really observe that one is better than the other, but I let you making your own opinion.
 -

So I'm wondering if the noize level observed could be also just the illustration of the sensor capability itself? (I mean: Somikon sensor quality looks much much lower than my 10 years old Sony Full HD camcorder)

Based on this trial, I think I will probably come back to the original Somikon Firmware, that will give me smaller files for the same observed quality

Other option: I've seen one another web site (http://letransfert.soforums.com/t1163-mon-t-l-cini-base-de-Raspberry-et-arduino.htm?q=pearl&start=30 ) some recent home made telecine results that seems to give interesting results to me. If you want to have a look, please check on this web site to the post «Posté le: Dim 14 Jan 2018 – 18:56» by «Balzac_40 », an open (an zoom inside) the baby face picture sample: what do you think about it?
(It's just a pity for me that I will probably not find the time for now to try to do that myself.... The scanning time obtaine is presently close to 1 fps, so two time less than with somikon/wolverine scanners)
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on March 16, 2018, 05:28 AM:
 
quote:
Other option: I've seen one another web site (http://letransfert.soforums.com/t1163-mon-t-l-cini-base-de-Raspberry-et-arduino.htm?q=pearl&start=30 ) some recent home made telecine results that seems to give interesting results to me. If you want to have a look, please check on this web site to the post «Posté le: Dim 14 Jan 2018 – 18:56» by «Balzac_40 », an open (an zoom inside) the baby face picture sample: what do you think about it?
You mean http://img110.xooimage.com/views/0/2/8/img06217-53c6c14.jpg/ ? It's a pretty low-res image; at least I couldn't make it higher-resolution.
 
Posted by Laurent Bellier (Member # 6286) on March 22, 2018, 05:16 PM:
 
Yes, sorry, you're right, I'm trying to get in touch with the author to understand if it's a crop part of original picture, or a downsized version ....

Meanwhile, I've found another exemple which make me dreeeming about (The guy here seems to be really skilled in several areas optic, mechanic, electronic, sofware ....):
- Amazing still picture 1388 × 1036 extracted from a super 8 movie: http://www.cine2digits.co.uk/wed1.png
- video sample here: https://vimeo.com/49963017 and here: www.vine.me.uk/downloads/florida01.avi
(All tehcnical details here: http://www.cine2digits.co.uk/)

Well, I'm now wondering if I can find some time for trying building an home made machine, it seems such good quality can be achieved ....
 
Posted by Dale Allen (Member # 6392) on March 22, 2018, 05:37 PM:
 
Just got a Wolverine. After 3 days, I like it. After reading the post here, I am much more informed. Thanks for all the informative postings!
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on March 23, 2018, 10:03 AM:
 
Good luck Dale.
my top three tips for these beasts:

Don't use it to rewind (unless you have no choice that is)

Invest in a soft hair brush or air blower brush and keep the gate clean before and after every scan.

Don't 'snap' the gate open and closed. Work out how to use the lever to assist when opening and closing, to create less wear on the catch.
 
Posted by Mark Davies (Member # 6249) on March 23, 2018, 10:17 AM:
 
Also, you may find that the default setting do not suite the current film, and cut off edges etc.
I will run a film until I get a good picture, check out the exposure, and adjust any x,y & z settings if required etc. and then run from the beginning.

Kind Regards Mark
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on March 24, 2018, 04:43 AM:
 
I have also found that the focus settings make a huge difference, I have had some excellent results on the lowest setting.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on March 24, 2018, 10:06 AM:
 
Folks, I've done some VERY important experimenting with my Somikon now that I've run into a VERY contrasty, B/W scene (a road sign) in one of the films I've digitized. (The original film is available in its entirety at https://youtu.be/SIhQNZcyaXg (60p processed with FCPX 10.4) / https://youtu.be/UQwxYlMbLHE (18p original). Note that I also provide a link to an archive containing all the test scans & framegrabs below - in order to review the results, you will want to prefer that one to the entire film.) This problem MAY affect Wolverine-branded (non-European) units too (or, for that matter, Reflecta ones) - I don't know.

Basically, I wanted to find out whether I can reduce the JPEG compression artefacts of the contrasty sign with the hacked 1440x1080 16 Mbps firmware ( http://retromania.pandelground.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/FWDV180N_1440x108 0_24fps_8000.zip linked from http://retromania.pandelground.com/wolverine-reels2digital-moviemaker) and how the sharpness settings affect the image quality.

During this, I've made a very important discovery: the now-latest (Oct/17; NX4294_12_163534) official firmware does NOT support sharpness changing at all. ALL the three settings result in exactly the same output! You can freely check this out in the following archive file:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qSoS5wrfKWEPurYfARtJduaxXGlahu7z

To see the scans I've made with the official firmware, look into the two subdirectories of "FW sharpness compare/ORIGINAL". They have three (in subdirectory "1") / two times two (in "2 power cycling between altering the setting") samples: the original (unaltered) scans themselves and the framegrab of exactly the same frame from these videos as .png files while playing back in QuickTume. If you look at the latter, you can see there is basically no difference between them, regardless of the sharpness settings I've used. (The filenames also contain the value of the setting.) The (very similar) file sizes also prove this. (The sharper (sharpened) the image, the bigger the filesize.)

Now, compare all this to the contents of the two subdirectories of "FW sharpness compare/HACKED", which has the "hacked" scans. Between these tests, I've even re-flashed the original firmware to be absolutely sure there is a difference in how the "Sharpness" setting is handled, as is also explained in the directory name "2. test after a full re-flashing (installing the original FW for testing and, then, again tha hacked)". Also note that the second subdirectory has separate subdirectories for English and German as the GUI language. (My scanner was, at first, set to German; I then re-set it to English after a bunch of tests to see whether the bug is language-dependent but, say, the English version is properly implemented. (It isn't.)).

As you can see, there is some major difference between the hacked version's files. This is pretty perfectly visible from the framegrabs' filesize too: 6, 7.2 and 8.1 Mbytes for the low / normal / high sharpness settings, respectively. That is, the low-sharpness version indeed has a lot less (false) information as the sharper ones.

The explanation for the (earlier) hacked version to work, unlike the (later-released) official one? Easy: the latter firmware wasn't properly debugged before release. The developers simply didn't notice Sharpness isn't at all working any more. This problem is very common in the world of programming.

All in all: at least if you have a Somikon with the latest (20 fps) firmware and do want to disable all kinds of in-scanner sharpening (that is, want to use the Low Sharpness setting, as recommended), do check whether the different sharpness settings indeed result in visibly different in-scanner sharpening. If you have the same results as me, just install the hacked firmware.

[ March 24, 2018, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Werner Ruotsalainen ]
 
Posted by Dan Esmond (Member # 3975) on March 24, 2018, 01:11 PM:
 
Interesting findings Werner. I reported to Wolverine middle of last year the bug in their firmware that Sharpness always defaulted back to Medium after a power cycle (which was present in both of the official firmwares I used on my machine). I finished my transfer project not long thereafter so I haven't followed or installed any of the subsequent official or hacked versions. I was hoping though that they would actually fix the bug, not make it worse. I left a small note on my machine to re-set the sharpness to low before each transfer. But it sounds like now, medium sharpness is being used even if you set it to low before each transfer?

I hope Wolverine/Somkion wil fix that bug pronto, because to my eyes medium and high sharpness are unacceptably noisy. If they don't then it's a good reason to try to flash an older firmware without that bug present.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on March 24, 2018, 01:22 PM:
 
quote:
But it sounds like now, medium sharpness is being used even if you set it to low before each transfer?
At least with the Oct/17 firmware and on Somikons. (I'm not sure of other-branded models.)
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on March 25, 2018, 07:58 AM:
 
BTW, let me elaborate on another slight advantage of using the hacked firmware caused by FCPX’s not allowing one to process 8mm films with their native speed (16/18 frames per second). Up until now, in order to avoid creating intermediate frames, we needed to re-pack (essentially, change the fps header – nothing else!) the 20 fps output of the scanner into a (bogus) 24 (or 30 etc. - anything natively supported by FCPX) video file and import it instead. (Again, with my ffmpeg scripts above, it’s very simple; however, it’s still a separate step we ALWAYS needed to do.)

Now that the hacked firmware’s output’s framerate is 30fps, which (unlike the 20fps of the latest official and Sharpness-buggy firmware) is natively supported by FCPX (and all the other video editor apps), we can directly import these files into FCPX: no intermediate conversion (re-flagging to 24(...anything supported) fps) needs to be done. This is certainly an advantage.

Of course, if you do want to export the file in native 16/18 fps, it isn’t possible in FCPX.

Actually, I only know of DaVinci Resolve (as of v12.4+) to support these two standard 8mm framerates – see https://vimeo.com/248538512/description . And, AFAIK, even it doesn’t support 12fps, which some R8 shooters did use back then (for example, the soldier that made these, for army admirers/devotees, pretty interesting shots in 1964: https://youtu.be/xKidGxNgn14 / https://youtu.be/ntez1LH-bYE (12p)) to save some film.

You need to slow the video down (to 60% for S8 and 53,33% for R8) from inside FCPX. Unfortunately, my ffmeg scripts will NOT work for FCPX’s output; that is, you can’t just export the file with the native 30 fps and just use ffmpeg to re-flag it to 16/18 fps. If you try doing this, there will be some heavy stuttering in the stream: ffmpeg will swap previous and next frames, making the output useless. This is a major problem.

This is why you must do the slowdown from inside FCPX. This, however, will still physically export a 30 fps file (or the framerate you’ve explicitly chosen when creating the project), meaning slowdown will introduce doubled frames to be displayed (A.K.A. pull down). You can always change the default “Normal” “Video Quality” setting (the one just inserting “dumb” doubled frames) to, say, “Optical Flow”. (This is what I personally do for all my FCPX-processed files. Plus, I create the project at 60p to allow for as fluid movement as possible. After all, if, because of FCPX’s limitations, I do need to insert computed intraframes in between original frames, I try to make use of this to make the movement much-much fluider. (This is especially important with 12fps footage. The pans (or, for that matter, any camera movement) in the two 12fps army films I’ve linked to above look absolutely horrible at 12fps. At 60fps, apart from the artefacts, it’s much-much more eye-friendly, as you can also check out at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3XBthKlNPs / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBGSCtX4xo4 .)

This is why I always upload Optical Flow-processed 60p 8mm scans in addition to the direct scanner output (12/16/18fps) on my YouTube stream: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSJ3JqZMyf0LDLNofpBtzow/videos .

Speaking of frame interpolation problems, the “Frame rate conversion” at http://www.thebattles.net/video/8mm_restoration.html also explains the problems you’ll face when you use “Optical Flow”.
 
Posted by Jaeson Koszarsky (Member # 6403) on March 28, 2018, 12:51 PM:
 
quote:
Werner Ruotsalainen

I've written a small shell script that iterates over the *.??4 files (meaning it'll match both .mp4 and .MP4) in the current directory, remuxes them with the fps 16 (you can, of course, use 18 instead by changing 16 to 18) and stores the results in the (previously-created) "output" directory.

I'm using a Wolverine Moviemaker Pro.

I currently have a troublesome reel that I'm going to scan backwards. Maybe the claw will get a better grip on the opposite side of the sprocket holes. For some reels with small areas of hole damage, I've found splice tape to work well.

Is there a modification for this fps changing Mac script that can also reverse the MP4 at the same time?

Thanks,
Jaeson
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on March 29, 2018, 02:29 PM:
 
quote:
I currently have a troublesome reel that I'm going to scan backwards. Maybe the claw will get a better grip on the opposite side of the sprocket holes.
Yup, I also do the same, particularly with spools that, otherwise, I couldn't scan without wobbling in 5-6 attempts. Then, generally, a reverse scan saves the day.

quote:
Is there a modification for this fps changing Mac script that can also reverse the MP4 at the same time?
There surely is, but, unlike my simple fps changer script, it also reencodes the video (takes a LOT more time & decreases quality):

ffmpeg -i inputfile.mp4 -vf reverse reversed.mp4

Therefore, I wouldn't use it as a separate step if I planned to another step of post processing; for example, vertical flipping. (At least in QT under MacOS, flipping is very CPU-intensive.) I can post my FCPX workflow for reversed scans if interested.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on March 30, 2018, 05:47 AM:
 
The biggest problem with the Wolverine and frame jitter (of which we all suffer with these machines at some point in a reel) is the take up motor.

This morning I am trying out a badly damaged 50ft reel dropping in to a clean box. The take up tension will damage it even more, and increase the jitter...

Last night I did a 50ft and instead of the Wolverine take up, I threaded the film to my movie viewer and hand wound bit by bit.

I have to say the difference is dramatic in terms of frame stability in the scan....hand winding take up would be impossible for 200 and 400ft reels! no one has that much patience do they?

I couldn't do this with a 200 or 400ft reel but thought of an idea to reduce to the 'pull' of the take up reel.

I think I have to find a way to add a potentiometer in the motor circuit to slow it right down.

I am not sure how to work out what value pot I would need to add, I guess I need to take a meter to the circuit and see what the voltage and ma rating is then do some maths.

I think if the take up motor could be slowed down to 'just about take up' it would solve a whole lot of issues.

If you have the electrical knowledge to help me work out what value pot to add to the take up motor I would be grateful.

I have the electrical knowledge to do the motor mod, just not the math to work out what pot to install, log or lin and value....

 -
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on March 30, 2018, 11:43 AM:
 
MyMP4Box GUI and Bitrates

I have been using this tool to get my scans down to a decent framerate but today for the first time I notice a significant bitrate change during the demux

A scan file from the wolverine comes out at around 14760 kbps

I notice the muxed files are coming out at anywhere between 7371 kbps at 15fps to 8356 kbps at 18fps

Does half the framerate (aprox) equal half the bitrate?

How much quality do you suppose I am losing, if any?

Is there something I can use to keep the higher bitrate or am I just confusing myself?
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on March 30, 2018, 06:59 PM:
 
quote:
I have to say the difference is dramatic in terms of frame stability in the scan...
Yup, the same is my experience - and also some of Amazon users. See my previous posts / photos on exactly this matter.

quote:
Is there something I can use to keep the higher bitrate or am I just confusing myself?
While i haven't tested the app, I assume it's just re-muxing the video files (just like my ffmpeg scripts) but does not recompress them. Then, the figures you posted are perfectly normal: let's not forget that the higher figure is for 30 fps, while the lower one is for 15/18.

For example, the just-uploaded 16p video at https://youtu.be/ID9aRrAOrdY is 8,74 Mbps after the simple 30->16 header conversion (via my ffmpeg script), while the 30fps original is 16,38 Mbps. The ratio between the two bitrates is exactly that of the framerates.

All in all, don't be afraid.

(Again, this assumes the app really doesn't reencode anything.)
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on March 31, 2018, 06:07 AM:
 
Many thanks Werner
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on April 02, 2018, 11:22 AM:
 
Inspite of the huge amount of negative comments the Wolverine gets, and the problems I have had with the darn thing, I have to say, todays 1966 standard 8mm scan is just beautiful!

Rescuing someone's home movies before it's too late, is a huge pleasure.

So it's not going to look great on a 50" tv set, but on my laptop? wow....

Standard 8 footage from today's scan
 
Posted by Dino Motti (Member # 6415) on April 05, 2018, 04:06 AM:
 
I own a somikon XL. I am struggling to understand why the compression artefacts are so severe.

I read here that some believe it is a MP4 compression issue, some instead a JPG compression problem of the single frames.

I also read that extracting the card from the machine, before the video file is saved, will preserve the single frames of the scan and allow me to process them on a computer. Is this true?

If somebody tried that approach do we know if the problem is with the JPG or MP4 compression?

Has anyone contacted the hardware producers to see if we can improve the quality of the compression of the frames/video? I would be happy to sacrifice speed if that helped to reduce the artefacts that are so severe sometimes faces are unrecognisable in some videos...

Thank you for the effort you have been making here to improve the firmware and get to the bottom of the issues with the wolverine and the somikon.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on April 08, 2018, 03:56 AM:
 
Welcome Dino Motti,

1, I've tried removing the card while in use. No sign of individual JPG images.

2, you will need to scan in "Low" sharpness mode to minimize compression artefacts. Note that it may NOT produce different images from that of the default Normal mode. (See my earlier post on this.) Then, you'll need to install the hacked Wolverine FW, which does indeed enable it (and has no "forgetting sharpness setting during power cycles" bugs).
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on April 10, 2018, 07:27 AM:
 
I did a focus and exposure test this morning which you may like to see.

This example is Low and High focus and exposure adjustment on a daylight and very dark indoor scene.

I purposely used a bit of out of focus film to see how it would cope.

Wolverine setting tests at YouTube 1080p

[ April 10, 2018, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Kev Morrison (Member # 6338) on April 10, 2018, 10:12 AM:
 
Mike, nice job on your comparison video, and the other information you've provided on the Wolverines. This is valuable stuff to us newbies that are in the process of doing a film-to-digital conversion.

I've just spliced together my first 400 ft reel of Super 8 film to convert via my Wolverine Pro (Janice, thanks for an excellent how-to video for the Kodak Universal Splicer!). I'm going to tinker a bit more with the settings before I start an estimated 216 minute conversion run....
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on April 10, 2018, 10:41 AM:
 
Good Luck Kev, and thank you for the kind words....

The default exposure is probably the best bet, but worth trying the focus settings.

In my focus setting test, my Facebook super8 group decided the sharp setting gave the best blacks, but some slighly jagged edges.

I still consider myself a newbie in this film scan malarkey......

400ft! good luck. I hope your take up motor copes, if not, I can lend you a very nice cardboard box!

 -

Mike's super8 rescue at Facebook
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 11, 2018, 05:08 AM:
 
Mike

I just saw your exposure test on your YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_2kf2uQjYE Clearly the -2 exposure has much more details in it. Thanks for sharing.

Your -2 exposure doesn't have the blueish color cast like in my exposure test for the SOMIKON HD-XL: https://youtu.be/BKzIzcnspJs Did you do any color corrections in this test-cilp?

I'll repeat my test for -2 / -1 / 0 / +1 / +2 with some actual 8mm footage and post the comparison very soon on YouTube

Kev

quote:
I've just spliced together my first 400 ft reel of Super 8 film to convert via my Wolverine Pro (Janice, thanks for an excellent how-to video for the Kodak Universal Splicer!). I'm going to tinker a bit more with the settings before I start an estimated 216 minute conversion run....
Good luck with your first 216 minute scan run, I'm very curious what your results and findings will be with/about the PRO version of the Wolverine.

[ April 11, 2018, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Berend De Meyer ]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on April 11, 2018, 09:41 AM:
 
Berend the test clips had nothing done to them other than being put side by side in a video edit and exported as 1080p mp4

I also notice some strobing effect on the focus test at six seconds, on the sharp focus, that is not there on the low focus side.

I did intend to do a -2 and +2 exposure, but the +2 was so washed out it was pointless.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 12, 2018, 03:56 AM:
 
Mike Thanks for your reply!

Werner Thanks for all your input here in this thread. I'm now experimenting with your FCPX - 60p Optical Flow - settings. Your clips look really amazing, thanks for sharing.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on April 12, 2018, 10:49 AM:
 
quote:
I'm now experimenting with your FCPX - 60p Optical Flow - settings. Your clips look really amazing, thanks for sharing.
I'll keep posting additional reports after testing the other motion estimation-enabled video editors. Prolly there are even better ones (given that FCPX often produces unnatural-looking results).
 
Posted by Kurt Froberg (Member # 5922) on April 12, 2018, 11:18 AM:
 
Hi guys,

Did anyone test this software Film9 which I think is amazing and can do nice smooth interpolations from 18 fps to 50 and lots of other things too, and it´s free. It uses Avisynth and VirtualDub but with a userfriendly interface.
http://contact41766.wixsite.com/film9/home-1

Kurt

PS I sold my Somikon HD-XL and went for a RetroScan Universal 2k from Moviestuff. Much more money, but...
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 12, 2018, 03:30 PM:
 
Kurt

Thanks for the link!

quote:
PS I sold my Somikon HD-XL and went for a RetroScan Universal 2k from Moviestuff. Much more money, but...
Yes, that's the way to go! Great machine, but way out of my league... Congrats and good luck and enjoy it.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 14, 2018, 05:38 AM:
 
Kurt

Would you be so kind to start a new thread for the RetroScan Universal 2k from Moviestuff here on the 8mm film-tech forums? I'd love to read your - and others - review(s) and be able to watch some sample footage - raw and edited - from that scanner. It would be a great additional contribution to the forums.

Thanks in advance and much appreciated!
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on April 14, 2018, 04:26 PM:
 
Just posted some (prolly) interesting examples of the different legacy color film stocks to http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=011449;p=5 .
 
Posted by Dino Motti (Member # 6415) on April 15, 2018, 04:41 AM:
 
Hi everyone,

Still haven't read an answer to my questions... is there a way to extract the single frames from the scanner before they are blended together into a movie?

I would be very interested in knowing if the compression happens at the single still frame level or when the video is encoded.

If we could prevent the step from happening we could possibly also export the pictures (JPGs?) to a computer and encode the video at better quality with lower artefacts.

Does anybody know? I read somebody reverse engineered the firmware.

DM

PS: as an alternative if at a certain point it became apparent that the above is limited by hardware... one could also consider plugging in a different camera... even a cellphone camera would certainly do better then the present one... and save the images directly into a solid state drive. The lens would probably be alright...
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on April 15, 2018, 07:06 AM:
 
Kurt I have been using Film9 for a couple of weeks now. I love it.

Dino I really don't think it will be possible to extract individual frames

I would like to explore using the GoPro to capture and image sequence.....
 
Posted by Dino Motti (Member # 6415) on April 15, 2018, 02:23 PM:
 
Why do you think it is not possible? The device clearly has to cache still frames before composing the whole video... it is certainly a question of saving them separately and interrupting the video rendering routine before it starts...
 
Posted by Dan Esmond (Member # 3975) on April 17, 2018, 04:41 PM:
 
Dino, Werner replied to you on 8 April (right underneath your post) saying that he had tried pulling the card during a transfer and there was nothing written on the card.

I think many of us had this same thought when these devices were first announced. I remember before I bought my unit in April of 2017 reading discussion about whether individual jpegs existed and people saying they do not.

I agree with you it would be interesting to know if the compression artifacts were due to the MPEG4 bitrate or were present on the images before they were even assembled into the mp4. Given the experience of those running the hacked firmware which increased the mpeg compression bitrate substantially (their findings are that artifacts are reduced but not eliminated) I would speculate that perhaps both the underlying still images and the mpeg compression codec are contributing to the problem.

I do not have enough technical understanding of the chip used in these units to know exactly how they create the movie file. But it seems quite possible that it doesn't write out each frame as an image and then assemble the movie. Rather it writes out the current image (probably to memory) and then the mpeg compression process immediately processes that image--thus it builds the mp4 file as it goes, not at the end of the process. I'm not sure but I think that's how most digital cameras which shoot movies work. I know that on my DSLR, if I shoot in video mode, at no point are there any individual frames on my memory card, and the finished mp4 file immediately appears on the card after I stop the camera.

Believe me, I really wish these devices could give us a folder of jpgs like the moviestuff devices and the Reflecta Super-8 scanner. But unfortunately I very much doubt that we will ever get that ability from them.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 18, 2018, 03:37 AM:
 
FWIW: I recently sent Winaid an e-mail about the MP4 compression and artifacts and asking for the possibility to save each frame as a JPG. To be continued...
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on April 18, 2018, 10:18 AM:
 
Berend if they give you a half decent solution I will buy you all the champagne you can drink!

In other news, I have now added an on/off switch to the take up motor on my Wolverine.

My drop box/hand rewind from said box, for the films is proving such a success, I think having the take motor running is pointless, so now at the flick of a switch.....

I have yet to work out what value potentiometer to use, but that will be seen to soon, so I can 'turn down the volume' on the take up motor as well as turn it off.

Fully modded Wolverine! photo's when I get the time..
 
Posted by John Milano (Member # 6430) on April 18, 2018, 02:02 PM:
 
Hi everyone. Just purchased the Wolverine MovieMaker Pro, and did my best to read all the posts on this thread. Some great advice and tricks. My question is in regard to the “hacked” firmware. Will it work/improve/be beneficial on the moviemaker pro version, or just the original? Sorry if this was answered and I missed it. Again, it was a lot of reading. Thank you.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 19, 2018, 02:50 AM:
 
John Welcome to the forums! I own the Somikon and I am still using the original firmware - 30 fps - because of what I've read from others regarding that the sharpness setting is overruled and not adjustable anymore. My advice to you is to just scan some reels and get accustomed to your new scanner. What post processing software are you using so you can adjust the framerate and perhaps do some color grading and cleanup? Good luck and enjoy your new scanner!

Mike
quote:
if they give you a half decent solution I will buy you all the champagne you can drink!

Haha, even without the champagne it would be mind blowing [Big Grin]

Fingers crossed so they'll at least send me a reply to my questions and requests.
quote:
I have yet to work out what value potentiometer to use, but that will be seen to soon, so I can 'turn down the volume' on the take up motor as well as turn it off.
That is a great idea! Love to see the pictures of your Wolverine 3.0. Good luck on the engineering!

UPDATE: reply from Winaid:
quote:
Good day,
1. this one is home use one , not profeesional
2. for the format can not change, it is only can be MP4, so the quality of video will be compressed
3. by not can not change the effect of vidoe out put format

Disappointing...

[ April 19, 2018, 04:57 AM: Message edited by: Berend De Meyer ]
 
Posted by Mark Davies (Member # 6249) on April 19, 2018, 08:24 AM:
 
Ask him for the source code and we'll do it ourselves.

I did have a thought, but I am pretty sure that it stores the individual scans in memory before building the MP4 and then saving it to media. I think this is proven by removing the card before the scan is finished and there is nothing there.

But I wondered if there was such a thing that could plug into the Scanner and into a card reader / port on a PC at the same time. So the scanner would actually use a file system on the PC. I don't know if such a thing exists, also there may be complications if the PC did anything with the file system at the same time. I don't know.

I do suspect that the hard ware inside 'maybe' based on the Raspberry Pie. I say this because I was looking at the files for my Reflecta's firmware and noted something called Platform=PIE, again, only guessing at the moment.

Kind Regards Mark
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on April 19, 2018, 03:18 PM:
 
quote:
1. this one is home use one , not profeesional
At least they answered you - they didn't bother answering my Standard-8-related mail sent back in December.

You should mention to them they could consider producing a professional model for, say, $1000...$2000. Obviously without wobbling. No need to be sprocketless (as long as there's no wobbling). RAW support is a must. And preferably a better sensor with better dynamic range.

I'd gladly pay even $2000 for a really professional scanner. But no more - after all, this is a 8mm scanner, while the Moviestuff can also scan 9.5 / 16mm and, being based on post processing-based frame identification, can be inherently better at eliminating wobbling and the likes.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on April 19, 2018, 03:53 PM:
 
Oh well, No still frame 'image sequence' is to be expected.

I bet it could be written in to firmware, to tell the camera to output at least a jpeg image....

I am loving my 'take up reel' switch.
0630 this morning I was drill in hand, wolverine in peices, with wire snip...black coffe...

 -

[ April 20, 2018, 03:29 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 20, 2018, 05:04 AM:
 
Mark
quote:
Ask him for the source code and we'll do it ourselves.
I send in a reply requesting for the source code! For the Somikon there's also a new firmware update for the 20 fps tweak: https://www.pearl.de/support/product.jsp?pdid=NX4294&catid=1301

Werner I'm convinced they won't ever make a $1000 - $2000 device based on the Wolverine/Somikon.

Mike I'm also afraid NOT! Nice little switch btw. Glad you like it and is worth the trouble.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on April 20, 2018, 09:52 AM:
 
quote:
For the Somikon there's also a new firmware update for the 20 fps tweak: https://www.pearl.de/support/product.jsp?pdid=NX4294&catid=1301
Just remember sharpness setting doesn't work in this version. Therefore, as a lot of us recommend scanning in the "Low" sharpness mode, I recommend the "hacked" firmware.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on April 20, 2018, 04:23 PM:
 
It's 22.20 Friday night, and the Wolverine has been chugging away since 10am.

 -
 -

[ April 21, 2018, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Dino Motti (Member # 6415) on April 21, 2018, 04:23 AM:
 
quote:
UPDATE: reply from Winaid:
quote:
Good day,
1. this one is home use one , not profeesional
2. for the format can not change, it is only can be MP4, so the quality of video will be compressed
3. by not can not change the effect of vidoe out put format
Disappointing...

Disappointing indeed, but as someone said, if they sent us the source code we could try to make the change ourselves... I was wondering if the frames are saved as invisible files, I do not see the machine having such a large internal cache to be able to store them elsewhere.

I still am not an expert of how a MPEG/MP4 file is produced, I know the compression operates on the relation between previous frames and successive frames, to reduce the amount of new information to record and just create a set of instructions on the changes that occur between frames. This makes me think that there must be either a "working file" that is produced looking at the previous frame only, with no predictive compression, or the frames are stored as invisible/temp files and assembled at a later stage.

I truly hope the second case is true so there can be hope to reverse engineer the compression and operate a true frame by frame uncompressed video from the stills.
 
Posted by Mark Davies (Member # 6249) on April 21, 2018, 04:59 AM:
 
With regards to reading the card while the machine is working. There are such things called Wi-Fi enabled MicroSD Cards. I was wondering if such a thing would enable you to see what was on the card in real time, or if there was such a lag nothing would show up, or as we suspect the frames are held in memory and then the MP4 is constructed. Possibly each frame is concatenated into the MP4 in memory/or stored as it goes along.

I may go buy one today.
 
Posted by Dino Motti (Member # 6415) on April 21, 2018, 05:07 AM:
 
Not sure you can look at an eyeFi SD card while it's in use... but it may well be the case... the picture must be temporarily stored somewhere while the file is being built, even if for a fraction of a second, the idea would be that of taking it away.

Unless it is just built like a very slow shutter video camera system... at that point one may need to replace the camera and circuitry altogether.
 
Posted by Mark Davies (Member # 6249) on April 21, 2018, 05:33 AM:
 
Yes, looking at youtube examples, it seems slow to recall the images. I was actually looking for a physical device, say MICROSD connector to USB/MICROSD but could only find that.

Annoying part, I cannot image it being hard to do, at the point of frame capture just store as an image and then continue to build (or whatever it does) the main MP4. I would rather it be stored in uncompressed format which may help speed.

The only thing I could see is the timing, but what controls that? Does it move on to the next frame after it has stored/concatenated the file, it must do. It would be mad to have a timer and try and fit jobs into that timespan.
 
Posted by Dino Motti (Member # 6415) on April 21, 2018, 05:45 AM:
 
It should have some sort of feedback of the sort "job done" before moving to the next frame scanning, but from using it I noticed no lag whatsoever, so the processing time may well be much less than the time gap, so it ALWAYS manages to fit that into the time available... the guys at winait did not give me the impression of having built an extremely complex device... which also reassures me as it means there are very simple levers to tweak it, like a timer, a saving routine, etc etc... probably also seeing how the card drive I connected and seeing whether there is a way to connect a USB out or something like that, at that point one could monitor the drive in real time or make a raid version of it that does not involve the processing.

I would honestly first try extracting the card halfway a scan and see if there are some invisible files, I would do it myself, but the scanner is with my father atm.
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 21, 2018, 05:56 AM:
 
I've been reading - Synalyze HEX Editor - the .BIN file for the latest firmware for the Somikon.

 -

The chip seems to be a Novatek NT96650. The firmware version is 2017.10.17 PL11P-D (German)

 -

EDIT: Seems to me, that this chip is terrible crippled by the use of the firmware in our decks.

quote:
NT96650BG is a high image quality, high performance, power saving and cost effective digital still
camera (DSC) and digital video camera (DV) controller with excellent digital still image capturing and
video streaming capabilities. It is targeted for the application of VGA to 50M pixel DSC/DV resolutions.
It can be easily adapted to many high speed CMOS and conventional CCD image sensors with on
chip programmable interface timing approach. The controller provides sophisticated video processing
methods with built-in hardware acceleration pipeline. This is essential for achieving high performance
for per-shot, shot-to-shot, and continuous shooting pictures. The controller provides flexible
mechanism for auto white balance, auto exposure and auto-focusing in order to better tradeoff
hardware and software efforts over the performance. Embedded H.264 video CODEC supports video
recording up to full-HD 1080p30. The HDMI 1.3 Tx is also equipped for HDTV output. Rich storage
interfaces are supported to make it ideal for the storage of still pictures and video streaming data. The
USB2.0 high speed interface can upload/download the audio/video data efficiently to/from PC

Found a PDF with additional info's on the net:

https://dashcamtalk.com/cams/mobius/Novatek%20NT96650.pdf

Perhaps the more tech savy members here will be able get some more info's about the chip, writing JPG and converting to the MP4 file.

EDIT: Seems that the chip is terrible crippeled by the use of the firmware for our decks.
 
Posted by Mark Davies (Member # 6249) on April 21, 2018, 06:08 AM:
 
Has anyone mounted the .bin file?
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 21, 2018, 06:10 AM:
 
Please explain mounting?

Never mind, found the answer already! [Wink]
 
Posted by Mark Davies (Member # 6249) on April 21, 2018, 06:35 AM:
 
OK, just removed from a scan, plugged SD card into a LINUX machine, and there are no hidden files and no hidden partitions..

Must be memory stored then.

[Edit] As a point to remember, I'm using a reflecta, I think they should all be similar though.

[Edit - Edit] Berend, do you see anything in the hex about updating the firmware or reading the bin?
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on April 21, 2018, 07:52 AM:
 
Mark - thanks for your feedback about the SD card!

No, I can't find any reference for updating the firmware.

Pere Pasqual - post #260 - has already tried to successfully hack the firmware for bitrate and fps:
quote:
Hi Kurt,

The thing is that my modifications, although uploaded later, where done *before* the Somikon firmware was released. So now my firmwares are mostly unnecessary, as what most of people was demanding was 1080p resolution and higher bitrate. Once the Somikon firmware was proven compatible with the original Wolverine, both goals were accomplished without further "hacking"... :/

Anyway, I'm sharing them so people can choose mainly between different capture resolutions.

The original bitrate of the Wolverine was about half the new one, and yeah, compression artifacts were highly noticeable. The current bitrate is a very high one, so I'm sure no one would ever notice any improvement going from near 10000 to 20000. Also note that bitrate will unavoidably decrease with lower frame rate - you need a less amount of bits to store the information since you have less frames to store. So, all in all, near 10000 bits for such a low frame rate is such a big amount of "space" to encode the information.

https://www.goprawn.com/forum/novatek-cams/2056-novatek-command-line-tools - post #18

I really don't have any clue what hacks are needed to get the scanner to save JPG files on the SD in stead of only the MP4...

[ April 21, 2018, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Berend De Meyer ]
 
Posted by Mark Davies (Member # 6249) on April 22, 2018, 06:33 AM:
 
Neither do I until we get that source code.

Currently I strip the MP4 into individual frames using ffmpeg, edit and re-compile. I'm sure though some quality is lost.

Hey Ho Pip and Dandy...
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on April 23, 2018, 04:16 PM:
 
quote:
I have yet to work out what value potentiometer to use, but that will be seen to soon, so I can 'turn down the volume' on the take up motor as well as turn it off.
I'll get a 100Ohm 4W one as soon as my new Somikon arrives. (I ordered another one as, it seems, widening the film gate with some 0.2mm to allow for (inherently) imprecisely-slit Double8 scans result in genuine Super8 footage to wobble a lot horizontally. Now, I'll keep my present scanner as a Double8 scanner (both DS8 and Std8), while the new will be a strictly S8 (not DS8!) one.)

I'll experiment with resistors in the latter to really reduce the strain on the gate. Will keep you posted.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on April 24, 2018, 09:03 AM:
 
Werner do keep us posted, a 12v motor can't draw more than a few milliamps, so should be easy enough to put a pot on it.

The PSU is 12v 0.5amp

I think a variable pot would make more sense than a fixed value resistance, for different reel sizes/hub sizes.

I really do think if the motor can be turned down to just about keep up with the scan speed, the frame jitter will vanish completely.

I am so far proving this by turning the take up motor off, and letting the film drop in to a clean plastic box.

Perfect scans time after time.

This week alone I have scanned 72 50ft (over 3000 ft) reels and all came out great using this method.

I have done it with a 200ft but not really what I want to do, and A 400FT would be out of the question, to drop in a box.

Turning the take up motor down to just about take up, would be something worth trying for sure.

[ April 24, 2018, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Kev Morrison (Member # 6338) on April 24, 2018, 09:45 AM:
 
Mike Spicer,

Since you stated a while back that you were interested in my following project…

A few days, I successfully completed my first 400 ft (eight 50 ft reels spliced together) Super 8 to digital conversion with my Wolverine Pro.

Setup:

- After cleaning all of my films with Filmguard (none of which had ever been shown in a projector before), I edited & spliced together the reels using my Kodak Universal Splicer and original Kodak Presstapes. I used Pec Pad wipes to wipe off any excess Filmguard from the film ends before I applied the splices. Smart move, because I suspect that the splices may not have held otherwise.

- I had a digital timer ready to keep track as to when the end of a 50 ft reel of film (and subsequent splice) was about to occur, so I would be present to take action if a splice either jammed or came apart in the light table (see below). 28 minutes was a good base time to use for unedited reels.

- After reading some concerns in this forum regarding how loosely the Wolverine takeup reel was in winding on the scanned film, I used a 600 ft reel to take up the film from my 400 ft input film reel. Surprisingly, I think the Pro did a decent job in firmly winding the film onto the takeup reel.

- Prior to starting my run, I did some testing to determine what Wolverine Pro scan settings I would use. I had my family members watch the digitized sample films, and we all concluded that overall, the standard settings looked best for our purposes.

- I kept a licensed Mike Spicer film catching box handy just in case the takeup reel malfunctioned, and I could drop the scanned film into the box.

- Lastly, I placed the Wolverine unit on a homemade “ramp” that had about a 30 degree grade, with the left side of the unit on the high side of the ramp. Why? Two reasons: 1) I figured that it may help the takeup reel in taking up the scanned film as the reel filled, and, 2) If dust or whatever started to accumulate on the light table, the raised angle may help in moving it off instead of staying in place.

Did this idea help? I dunno.

Processing:

- The entire reel was successfully scanned. We reviewed the digitized film, and it looked pretty good. I may attempt to experiment in enhancing a copy of this digitized film, but for now, we’re grateful to have a copy of our movies that we now can share with the family.

- All of my Kodak Presstape splices held well and had no problem going through the light table and scanning, however, I noticed that starting at the splice for the third reel, the spliced film was starting to encounter some problems threading its way through the rollers after the light table and to the takeup reel. It appears that these particular splices make the film a bit inflexible and more difficult to weave through the rollers, and since the takeup reel’s motor doesn’t exert that much tension to pull the spliced film areas through without hesitation, the takeup process starts to “stall” to the takeup reel.

So – I lightly coaxed these areas through with my fingers without a problem. I’d think that for those folks who have used another method of splicing instead of Kodak Presstapes (ex., cement, other types of splice tape), you may not encounter any problems in the splices.

- By the time that the scanning reached the splice for the 7th 50 ft reel, it appeared that the takeup reel may have been starting to get a bit slow – maybe it was just my perception that it was. In any event, I completed the entire 400 ft digital conversion just fine, but I would not be comfortable attempting a 600 ft scan with my machine unless I was either dumping the scanned film into a box, or perhaps not threading the digitized film through all of the Wolverine’s takeup rollers.

I have five more 400 ft reels to splice together and scan. It’s a slow and time consuming process, but it’s worth the effort. In the future after I complete this project, I may consider using a good quality Super 8 projector and a quality telecine converter with my Sony HD camcorder to see if I can produce even higher quality copies of our movies.

And, I’ve already informed my family & friends that now want me to perform the same conversion process for all of their ancient movies that they can either, 1) Pay me to have their movies converted, or, 2) That, after I've finished converting my films, I’ll be more than happy to sell my collection of viewer/editors, Wolverine, splicers, etc. to them so they can do it….

The silence is deafening. HA!

[ September 24, 2018, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: Kev Morrison ]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on April 24, 2018, 10:44 AM:
 
Kev. Very well done. Really good to hear you had a positive experience.

I assume the cheque for my patented drop box is in the post! [Razz]

I have just completed 3850 feet! (all 50 foot reels) (phew)
 
Posted by Kev Morrison (Member # 6338) on April 24, 2018, 07:04 PM:
 
Mike,

The "cheque is in the mail".... [Big Grin]

3850 feet????!!! I've never heard of anyone processing that much movie film through a Wolverine. You must be doing something right!

Thanks to you and others for posting your thoughts, suggestions & experience in these forums. I've been learning a lot from the 8 mm movie Jedi knights here, and the information I've acquired you just can't find anywhere else.
 
Posted by Ken Abruzzo (Member # 6188) on April 25, 2018, 08:29 AM:
 
Kev,

I have the Pro model and yes, it does seem to slow down as a 400 foot reel gets closer to the end. Also, good call on using a 600 foot reel as take up. I've found that it does wind it rather loosely and what fits on the supply reel doesn't always fit on the take up reel.

I had similar experiences with splices. Most would go through without a hitch. Some though did get stuck and needed help. I've had some stock that was really finicky about going through and I found that skipping one of the pegs sometimes helped. Also had some stock that my grandfather had used bargain bin stuff and it was so worn that the machine didn't want to take it. I was able to get it to go through backwards.

I've found that the low sharp setting works better. If only I had discovered that earlier on....... I will eventually go back and rescan everything (with better framing settings too). For now, I was just glad to get it all done and onto DVD. We had a lot of footage. I finished my project and it came in at about 14,000 feet (19 at 200', 4 at 300', 16 at 400' and the rest at 50'). I've since fixed some of my initial editing mistakes and gotten everything where it belongs.

I now have a bunch of neighbors and family friends that want me to scan their old footage.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on April 25, 2018, 09:48 AM:
 
Ken I am surprised to hear you put your content on dvd.

May I ask how you did that and how the DVD looks compared to watching the mp4 files on a computer?

I refuse to put any content on DVD as I consider it a step backwards in quality, but then I don't have any decent software to create a dvd these days.

I would love to see an HD example of the Wolverine Pro.

Does anyone have a clip at youtube or vimeo please?

I am considering purchasing a Pro in the future, I am sure my Wolverine's days are numbered, and I would like to see what the Pro scans look like
 
Posted by Kev Morrison (Member # 6338) on April 25, 2018, 10:01 AM:
 
Ken,

I have the Pro model and yes, it does seem to slow down as a 400 foot reel gets closer to the end. Also, good call on using a 600 foot reel as take up. I've found that it does wind it rather loosely and what fits on the supply reel doesn't always fit on the take up reel.

*********************
KM - I’m now thinking that we may be seeing a bit of an optical illusion when we sense a “slow down” as a film reel becomes full. When the takeup reel has little film on it, it will appear to rotate a bit faster to take up the scanned film as needed, however, as the reel becomes full (and the circumference of the roll of scanned film is much larger), the reel will not appear to rotate as fast to take up the film as needed. I think. Or maybe the weight of the film on the takeup reel actually does slow down the rotation. Maybe I need another cup of coffee.
******************

I had similar experiences with splices. Most would go through without a hitch. Some though did get stuck and needed help. I've had some stock that was really finicky about going through and I found that skipping one of the pegs sometimes helped. Also had some stock that my grandfather had used bargain bin stuff and it was so worn that the machine didn't want to take it. I was able to get it to go through backwards.

*********************
KM - In this case, the Kodak Presstape splice tape makes the splice and surrounding film rigid (and long) enough that it has some difficulty weaving its way through the Wolverine's serpentine path of rollers (after the scan table) and up onto the takeup reel. Note that the splices all went through the scan at the light table flawlessly – the issue is with the splice “running the gauntlet” afterwards. I cleaned my film with Filmguard, and use Pledge to “lube” the Wolverine rollers, but I’m still not surprised at this minor glitch. Maybe I’ll experiment with threading the film through the Wolverine rollers differently so I omit a roller or two, and that may solve the “stalling” problem with the glitches.
*******************

I've found that the low sharp setting works better. If only I had discovered that earlier on....... I will eventually go back and rescan everything (with better framing settings too). For now, I was just glad to get it all done and onto DVD. We had a lot of footage. I finished my project and it came in at about 14,000 feet (19 at 200', 4 at 300', 16 at 400' and the rest at 50'). I've since fixed some of my initial editing mistakes and gotten everything where it belongs.

********************
KM - I’m going to tinker with my settings before I proceed with my next batch. The good thing about having our movies spliced together is that we’re ready to go for another scan.

But – 14k FEET? Man – I knew I should have taken more movies of the family! [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Ken Abruzzo (Member # 6188) on April 25, 2018, 11:14 AM:
 
Mike, yup, DVD. Sent out a bunch of disks to family members. Surprisingly, I didn't notice any real drop off in quality. Maybe it's just my eyes. I tried saving hi-def files to my cloud drive and viewing them on my TV. Comparing the files and the DVD on the same screen, I really don't see a difference. I have yet to try creating a blu-ray disk of the same footage. That would be the true test.

I use Cyberlink's Powerdirector to create the movie. I drop in music clips (used recordings of my dad singing for my parents wedding/honeymoon footage). I use the crop and stabilizer tools in PD as needed. Then clean it up with Colordirector (denoise, sharpness, etc).

Kev,

I had the same thought about an optical illusion with it slowing down. I still think it is slowing down a bit from the weight though.

It's been a while since I did the scanning. I know I had some splices that were a different brand and seemed thicker. Those sometimes had trouble making it through the gate. Since I switched to the new version of the Kodak press tapes (white package), I wasn't having trouble. I know what you mean about the film being more rigid. I just can't remember if it was older splices (the other brand) or if it even had something to do with 400' reels (as more weight was on the take-up). Something to keep an eye on for the future.

Hmm....... Hadn't thought about "lubing" the rollers. Something to experiment with (assuming I remember that when I break it out again). LOL!

Definitely try to tinker with the sharpness settings. I liked the end result better.

Yes, 14k feet. Some of it was crap though so I probably won't bother with it when I get around to redoing the project with better framing.
 
Posted by Kev Morrison (Member # 6338) on April 26, 2018, 08:39 PM:
 
Ken,

Regarding a recent comment I made about "lubing" the Wolverine rollers with Pledge....

I need to clarify that suggestion - you should use Johnson's Lemon Pledge furniture wax (NOT the Pledge furniture oil). That's the stuff in the yellow Pledge spray can.
 
Posted by Jean-Pierre Labus (Member # 6090) on May 01, 2018, 02:26 AM:
 
Bingo ! Eurêka !
One year using REFLECTA SCANNER D8/S8mm (WOLVERINE-SOMIKON clones)
and many searches to best HD movies results,
for me only RAW is the best way and no MP4 compressed from the way of these manufacturers

By using WINDOWS EXPLORER we only access to USB drive computer files FAT 32
Film scanner
MOVIE
xxxx.mp4

By using a Memory SD Card Recovery software we can access to
Film scanner
MOVIE
xxxx.mp4
Raw Files
JPEG Graphics File
File 001.JPEG
MP4 Multimedia File
xxxx010.mp4
xxxx009.mp4
xxxw008.mp4
xxxx007.mp4
xxxx006.mp4
xxxx005.mp4
xxxx004.mp4
xxxx003.mp4
xxxx002.mp4
xxxx001.mp4
ShockWave Flash File
File001.SWF (File SWF to be used to modify in other HD video Format and compression)
System Volume Information
WPSettings.dat
IndexerVolumGuide

SWF file probably must be repaired
You can use this way
Best Regards
JP LABUS
 
Posted by Dino Motti (Member # 6415) on May 01, 2018, 03:26 AM:
 
That is great news! Could you detail your procedure?

Thank you! So excited to hear you have found a way to get the raw files!
 
Posted by Jean-Pierre Labus (Member # 6090) on May 01, 2018, 04:18 AM:
 
Very simple ....
I use iCare SD Memory Card Recovery v.1.1.1.
(Free of charges by GiveAwayOfTheDay company 2 Days ago
or register)
I transfer the recovered files to computer ....
For me only file SWF is used to transfer final HD movie.
http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/showpic.cgi?dir=uploads0503&file=8mmForum.jpg[/IMG
 
Posted by Mark Davies (Member # 6249) on May 01, 2018, 04:44 AM:
 
This is super news.. well done Jean. [Smile]
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on May 01, 2018, 10:21 AM:
 
Thank you Jean-Pierre for sharing your info!

I tried the same using EaseUS SD Card Recovery on Mac OS X for my Somikon HD-XL. No luck retrieving any .JPG image from a scanned 8mm film.

 -

Did you see any .JPG files on your SD from a scanned 8mm film?

[ May 04, 2018, 04:41 AM: Message edited by: Berend De Meyer ]
 
Posted by Jean-Pierre Labus (Member # 6090) on May 01, 2018, 01:22 PM:
 
I have used some recover file softwares
It is necessary to use a SD recover file software
example : ------------

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/showpic.cgi?dir=uploads0503&file=Capture20180430-100939.jpg

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/showpic.cgi?dir=uploads0503&file=8mmForum1.jpg
 
Posted by Dino Motti (Member # 6415) on May 01, 2018, 05:45 PM:
 
So, just to clarify, you ran a scan from beginning to end, you took the card and put into a recovery program and managed to find data banks that had not been erased containing ALL the RAW JPG frames?

If you managed to do that it'd be just amazing!

Could you also post an example of a JPG to be able to check the quality of the image?

Thank you again so very much!
 
Posted by Jean-Pierre Labus (Member # 6090) on May 01, 2018, 09:54 PM:
 
JPEG recovered details :

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/showpic.cgi?dir=uploads0503&file=Capture20180502-041424combinnndnntails.jpg

It is not the way to recover movies.
It is necessary to use SWF recovered file to have RAW File result which can be used to be modify
by another video software

MP4 movie scanned#055 final REFLECTA file :
323.820 Ko
SWF Raw flash movie file :
1.278.617 Ko

I try to understand software details for:

System Volum Information
WPSettings.dat
IndexerVolumGuid

To avoid erase period of first Raw files at the final mp4 register on SD card.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on May 02, 2018, 01:36 PM:
 
Reading the last couple of posts about exploring the memory card for jpg files has me riveted and excited.

keep up the amazing work, I wish I had the knowledge to contribute to this exciting development....

Crossing my fingers and toes for you...
 
Posted by Dino Motti (Member # 6415) on May 02, 2018, 02:31 PM:
 
Indeed Mike, indeed! :-)

I cannot wait to try it myself... and if we managed to modify the software to skip the deletion of JPG and SWF raw files that would be amazing!

Great work!
 
Posted by Berend De Meyer (Member # 5856) on May 03, 2018, 04:19 AM:
 
Hi all,

I got a reply from Winait - Richard - stating that they're not willing to give me the SDK for my Somikon HD-XL. Well at least I tried, but still very disappointing.
 
Posted by Dan Esmond (Member # 3975) on May 03, 2018, 02:18 PM:
 
Indeed exciting if it pans out. I'm puzzled by the presence of a Flash file (SWF) since it seems to be an unnecessary intermediary between jpg and mp4, but maybe there is some reason for it.

Jean-Pierre can you please upload one of the recovered jpegs and also upload the swf to youtube so we can compare the compression artifacts with the mp4 file?

Thanks!
 
Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 03, 2018, 04:21 PM:
 
Jean-Pierre Labus can you clarify? Are you using the Reflecta or the Wolverine model scanner? You mention viewing files from the Reflecta SD card with the file recovery program. The Reflecta unit may have a different file structure than the Wolverine.

[ May 03, 2018, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]
 
Posted by Dino Motti (Member # 6415) on May 07, 2018, 08:36 AM:
 
Hi Janice, as far as I know the Reflecta is identical to the Wolverine and Somikon, it is just a branding/franchising issue, but you are right in saying there may be differences in the firmware and file structure of the 2/3 scanners...
 
Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 07, 2018, 09:02 AM:
 
The Reflecta appears to be an entirely different unit than the Wolverine/Somikon/Hammacher Schlemmer models and costs about twice as much. This is more than just a branding issue. Although possible....it's highly improbable that the Reflecta uses the same software scanning and coversion system as the Wolverine type units.

Relflecta Super 8 Film Scanner
https://tinyurl.com/yb5e6ywu
 -
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on May 07, 2018, 09:57 AM:
 
Reflecta has two scanners: the one you linked to (the older one) and the rebranded Somikon / Wolverine one (the new one).
 
Posted by Kurt Froberg (Member # 5922) on May 07, 2018, 10:16 AM:
 
https://www.photospecialist.com/reflecta-super-8-normaal-8-scanner?gclid=CjwKCAjw8r_XBRBkEiwAjWGLlDkI_pDxT0Ide7mB8b-OsQswkHeHmnqo4r1Ud0lMnDfBNWywLSz0UxoCafMQAvD_BwE
 
Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 07, 2018, 11:03 AM:
 
Thanks Kurt and Werner... Interesting...I hadn't seen the Reflecta Wolverine clone [Smile] I had only seen reviews on the original Reflecta...and the reviews weren't all that good [Frown]

I don't own these units...I use the original MovieStuff 8mm and 16mm frame by frame scanners...however I'm always interested in telecine technology. Has anyone other than Jean-Pierre located hidden frame files on their SD Cards with the software he recommended?
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on May 07, 2018, 11:45 AM:
 
Janice you are a legend!

I'm not sure what made me type that, but you really are something special!
 
Posted by Dino Motti (Member # 6415) on May 07, 2018, 02:41 PM:
 
Indeed, "the Reflecta" comes also in this flavour, no worries Janice, I myself have got confused a few times and was worried that we were referring to another scanner altogether on reading this.
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on May 07, 2018, 02:51 PM:
 
Mike you will have to get in line with the rest of us here who think Janice is really special! [Smile]
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on May 07, 2018, 03:07 PM:
 
Appears to be a clone of the original model Wolverine with a 12.7cm (5") reel capacity. Anyone notice any spec. enhancements?
Seems sort of pricy for a Wolverine clone.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on May 08, 2018, 02:16 AM:
 
No custom additions / enhancements in the Reflecta rebrand, unfortunately. Prolly it's only WRT local (Germany-based) warranty that MIGHT be better than with Somikon - at least if one is in Europe.

I myself purchased two pieces of the Somikon scanner instead because of the significantly lower price (at pearl.de) and the 7" support.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on May 12, 2018, 04:26 PM:
 
This Wolverine thread has turned in to something quite special.

I found this thread via a Google search when mine broke down a few weeks in, around a year back.

Here we are 16 pages and some 393 posts

[ June 02, 2018, 05:04 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Jean-Pierre Labus (Member # 6090) on May 15, 2018, 10:03 AM:
 
For your information,

I am not programmer.
I was born on 1950
I make cine movies from 1962 (Double 8mm and Super 8 mm colored and sounded
I use computers from 1978 and be beta tester and software translater (Amiga materials and softwares
and after with microsoft)
I am owner of 4 sound cine projectors

HEURTIER Stereovox Super8
HEURTIER Stereovox Super 8 telecine SD & HD video
HEURTIER Duo 942 prototype synchro ORDINASON & OPTOPILOT
HEURTIER P624 sound 8mm & Super 8mm

For me it is the best way to capture HD video from 8/S8 mm cine movies.

For Reflecta (Wolverine-Somikon clones) these systems are based on cine film viewer.
No sprocket wheels, no pinch rollers
No capstan, no idle pulley
No claw, dew claw ...

only 2 frames per second stepping motor and 4 rubber anti return pulley.

Inside it is an Aduino cpu

At this time 1 work to search how flashing internal software (same solution for my 3D printer intern software)
As I work on 3D printer since Six monthes I print some spare parts to modify this Reflecta scanner;
The recovered files on SD card are hexadecimal language and I work on.

Waiting for new discoveries
and possible discoveries of others forum members ....

Best regards
JP LABUS
 
Posted by Jean-Pierre Labus (Member # 6090) on May 20, 2018, 03:17 AM:
 
To flash internal Wolverine-Somikon-Reflecta EPROM you can use
this way :

https://www.renesas.com/en-in/doc/products/mpumcu/apn/rx/002/r01an3294ej0103_usb.pdf
 
Posted by Mark Davies (Member # 6249) on June 02, 2018, 04:48 AM:
 
OK, So, I am sure many people have heard about the Rasberry Pi, the small ARM based computer on a board.

Well this months magazine MagPi had an interesting article that caught my eye.

Joe Herman has produced a film scanner based on a Pi & a bolex.

This if I am reading correctly uses a Pi + Pi Camera and exports directly to another machine in real time.

First page a link to the git hub project.
Git Hub

Next page another git hub link with more info.
Second Git Hub Page

Finally a link to his youtube page, which looks good.
You Tube Page

The software on this looks really good, and I always suspected these commercial scanners where Pi based.
 
Posted by Kev Morrison (Member # 6338) on June 04, 2018, 10:51 AM:
 
Mark,

The Raspberry PI camera videos are interesting!

This is one of the best comparison videos I've seen out of this group of Raspberry PI videos - the video on the right is (to me) the preferred version. Fascinating that it's in 720p versus the original 1080p:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeYRGvWeYXo
 
Posted by Mark Davies (Member # 6249) on June 04, 2018, 03:48 PM:
 
That Kev.. is DAMN awesome!! You can really see the difference, only one thing and it may be my mind playing tricks, but the blue car looks more colourful in the left.. saying that, the right maybe the real colour.
 
Posted by Kev Morrison (Member # 6338) on June 06, 2018, 08:04 PM:
 
Mark, I agree - the blue car is a '58 Ford, pretty rare to find nowadays, but the color is dead on.

There's also a '60 - '61 Corvair (I absolutely love watching old movies just to see the old cars!), and the color shown in the second screen for the Corvair is also quite accurate.

These Raspberry PI PCs are amazing, but I've never seen these used for digitizing film. I'm impressed!
 
Posted by Mike O'Connor (Member # 6526) on July 20, 2018, 03:24 PM:
 
Hello
I have been reading this thread with great interest and wanted to share what I have learned concerning access to the individual images that make up the Mp4 files that the Wolverine scanner and its clones produce. Of course an Mp4 is simply a container and of course the individual Jpegs that make up the video files are there. I cannot understand why folk have been scratching their heads concerning this process.A quick google search for a utility to achieve this took about 10 seconds to suggest the following program which does the job very quickly and very effeciently. It unpacks the Mp4 to give you the thousands of images that make up the video file. I hope this is helpful to the guys and gals that use the little Wolverine or one of its clones. I recently purchased a Winait derivitive and have to say I am so far very pleased with results that I have achieved thus far with it. It is of course a tool for the hobbyist and for the money I have to say I think its pretty darned good. With a little post processing I am amazed at what can be achieved. Anyway the program I am talking about can be found here

https://www.dvdvideosoft.com/products/dvd/Free-Video-to-JPG-Converter.htm

Meant to say when you launch the program simply load your Mp4 file and check the little 'Every Frame' button to extract all frames.
 
Posted by Mike Brantley (Member # 6275) on July 21, 2018, 12:18 AM:
 
If you extract jpeg images from the already highly compressed mp4 movie file, wouldn't the frames be of lesser quality than the original frame scans grabbed before the compressed movie file was created? Or do I understand the problem wrong?
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on July 21, 2018, 02:52 AM:
 
This program does not extract the original image sequence but as mentioned, just takes stills from a video file, which is already compressed.

The fact you could put any video file in to this software, (and there are many other variations of this software) doesn't mean it will extract the original uncompressed image sequence, (which is what we are hoping for one day) just a series of images of a video file, along with whatever compression was used to make that video file.

Once a compressed video file is created it is not possible to pull out original uncompressed still images from that file, and it's those images that would be so valuable to have.

thanks for the post however. We'll get there one day.....

ps: the point of wanting the original still frames before compression is so they could be put in to software like VirtualDub and one could then apply your own compression/codec/bitrate/framerate and obtain much better results than the Wolverine compression and ridiculous framerate.

here is an example of what I mean, albeit 1080p stills from a gopro camera. I made a timelapse of a construction project over 18 months, taking up to 30,000 still images a week at different frame rates depending on the subject, but mostly 1 frame every six seconds.

Imagine a 1080p Wolverine still image sequence made in to video this way, would be amazing. Even 720p Wolverine still images would look smart.

I put those still images in to VDub to create video files with compression/codec/framerates of my choice.

youtube has applied it's own compression but it still looks good

still image time lapse example HQ
Still image time lapse example LQ

Here is a still image taken from a Wolverine 720p scan, the compression artifacts are quite visible, so one wouldn't want to compress that again in to a new file.
 -

[ July 21, 2018, 06:06 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Mike O'Connor (Member # 6526) on August 05, 2018, 08:42 AM:
 
Ah of course the jpegs are compressed as the mp4 is created. Silly me...I must remember to think before posting. Still like the little scanner though. I constructed my own years ago from a modified Eumig 610D and plano condenser lens. Have to say the Wolverine is comparable and a heck of a lot easier to use :-)

A first attempt at using the scanner..pretty happy with the results. Some Kodak Tri X footage shot for inclusion in my first attempt at shooting a music video :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7P-YGCHrvs

Here's the final effort :

https://vimeo.com/45965952
 
Posted by Pere Pasqual (Member # 5906) on August 06, 2018, 04:40 AM:
 
quote:

Ah of course the jpegs are compressed as the mp4 is created.

And there is another wrong assumption, in the sense that an MP4 is *not* "a sequence of JPG files", but frames are grabbed in their "raw" format (or whatever format the are being given as, but I'm assuming they arrive in their raw format from the scanner senstor to the compressing firmware in the Wolverine) and then a different, own compression method is applied to them, different to the one used in JPEG files, having inter-frame compression and many other differences. It can share some compression techniques with JPEG but definitely is not the same compression method.

In fact, there was a compression method, MJPEG, which actually consisted of and arranged set of a series of individual JPEG files, and it was used in analog capture cards from the late 90's, first 00's, notably the Miro DC 10 plus, DC 30 plus and so on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_JPEG

Quality was great, but its data usage or bitrate was huge compared to the current, far more optimized compression method. Anyway, it's still used in some areas because it makes sense for quality preservation while editing.

quote:

Here is a still image taken from a Wolverine 720p scan, the compression artifacts are quite visible

Maybe in that capture there are some certaing compression atifcats. But in this thread we saw some examples of captures at great bitrate and easy to compress, plain background color images, which show similar artifacts and compression couldn't be blamed for causing them. Maybe it's just sensor noise or the Wolverine is not doing things as it should...

[ August 06, 2018, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: Pere Pasqual ]
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on August 11, 2018, 05:03 AM:
 
quote:
Some Kodak Tri X footage shot for inclusion in my first attempt at shooting a music video :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7P-YGCHrvs

Excellent footage. Kodak FTW! I still admire how the old Kodachrome 8mm (and other) films show absolutely no fading / tinting / resolution decrease, unlike a lot of alternatives. Examples of the latter are for example Agfa, which terribly ages (I've digitized hundreds of Agfa films and ALL of them are terrible), even in as little as 27 years. I only wish current color Kodak films aged as nicely as Kodachrome (I have mixed results with their non-Kodachrome-branded, old films)... Interestingly, the (back then) supercheap, East-German ORWO ages much-much better (no fading etc.) than Agfa and a lot of other, much more expensive Western alternatives.

BTW, WRT the maximal resolution gainable from Super8, which has been widely discussed on the net (see e.g. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/super-8-film-what-resolution.2062635/ http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=2083 ), indeed even Kodachrome footage shot in the 60's / 70's with a proper camera & technique easily exceed SD.
 
Posted by James Fountain (Member # 6649) on October 07, 2018, 10:33 AM:
 
I really awnt to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread over the past years. I have long wanted to digitize the memories that my grandfather so meticulously documented, everything from driving APCs in the National Guard, to the buildings my great grandfather built, to birthday parties, to garden tilling, to the family members who are only names without these videos. Taking the leap to buy a Wolverine and then improve the quality of the video for proper viewing was really bolstered by this thread. So thank you. I've begun to compile a few thoughts and questions I would like to add, but before I start that I just wanted to let all of you know that you have been a huge help.
 
Posted by James Fountain (Member # 6649) on October 07, 2018, 02:58 PM:
 
I thought it might be useful to compile what a few of the highlights I dug out of the 17 pages of comments. I know this is far from everything but I felt like this was the minimum I needed to get started with collecting the data:

Firmware:

Custom Firmware to unlock high bitrate data storage with a resolution increase from 720p to 1440p can be installed on many machines. In general this thread doesn't seem to show anyone that had issues with either firmware (I did but that's for the questions below)

1) Pierre has developed several firmware options that all collect at 30fps, the can be downloaded from http://retromania.pandelground.com/
2) The firmware for the Somikon units can be downloaded from Somikon.de (use google translate). This firmware will unlock a 20fps 1440p resolution higher bitrate data log

Frame rate and bitrate:

1) The default recording frame rate is 30fps, this doesn't correctly reflect the 16 or 18fps frame rate expected from our 8mm and super 8mm film. The higher frame rate results in unnatural movement and ~50% reduction in run time.
2) Bitrate is surprisingly low and well below what should be achievable. As a result images introduce electronic noise in our images and reduce overall quality.
2) Several options exist to modify the frame rate but the use of the open source program ffmpeg allows for simple command line options to batch convert the frame rate
3) Using just a -r 16 (for %%a in ("*.*4") do ffmpeg -i "%%a" -y -r 16 "newfiles\%%~na.mp4") will change the frame rate but it leaves the run time shortened still.
4) By decoding and then recoding the file you will create a file with the correct frame rate and run time but you risk further decreasing the quality of your recording.
5) If you want to decode to h264 then recode to 16fps you can take the batch file I created below, paste it into a text file, save the text file and change the file type from .txt to .bat, place the .bat and ffmpeg.exe in the same folder as the files you want to convert. When you run it you will have your original files, the h264 files, and recoded 16fps mp4 files.

if not exist %cd%\converted md %cd%\converted
copy ffmpeg.exe %cd%\converted\ffmpeg.exe
for %%a in ("*.*4") do ffmpeg -y -i "%%a" -c copy -f h264 "converted\%%~na.h264"
cd converted
if not exist %cd%\16fps md %cd%\16fps
for %%a in ("*.h264") do ffmpeg -i "%%a" -y -r 16 "16fps\%%~na.mp4"
echo All mp4's in this folder have been converted to 16fps
pause

Image reprocessing

1) I don't see a lot of information on program suggestions for reprocessing and cleaning up the files. I'm not looking to create perfection but I would like to optimize the files a bit. Avisynth looks like a decent option.

My questions:

1) I bought a used wolverine and it turns out my unit is pre mass production 2016 (no vents I suspect belt driven). The price was right and it appears to be in incredible shape, but the modified firmwares do not work on my unit. They all result in a solid blue screen after reflashing. I was lucky enough to get a copy of the old firmware from Wolverine and I've got my unit running again but I would love to limit the compression. Does anyone know of a firmware that may work with this unit? Would there be a good place to host this version in case someone else runs into my problem? Does anyone want to crack this firmware open and see if they can modify it to unlock the resolution/bit rate?

2) How much quality loss can I expect from using my ffmpeg script. I can't see it but it is also difficult to compare a film running at 30fps and 16fps. If it is significant can anyone suggest a better way to convert fps and runtime without losing quality?

3) Any software suggestions with a relatively simple learning curve? I would like to get my sons involved with collecting and processing this data as a Christmas present for my grandmother/grandfather. I'm not opposed to more complex software but if I could get something in there learning path I would love it.

Thanks again everyone, I find myself getting more and more excited about this project. Now if I can keep it from becoming a short term obsession...

[ October 08, 2018, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: James Fountain ]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on October 08, 2018, 10:33 AM:
 
James in my opinion the only simple quick effective way to change framerate on any Wolverine scan, without any re encoding, is to use MyMP4 Box.

It is mentioned in the thread, it's free, safe to use on windows and will correct the frame rate in a few moments.

I could not live without it.

If you need a more detailed tutorial let me know, but it's use is covered further back in this thread, in a nut shell....

go to the demux tab, 'open' a video and hit demux.

Once done (progress bar in the bottom of the window) go to the mux tab, add the H264 file the demux generated, it will be in the same folder as the video you added.

Change the frame rate in the option box at the bottom of the screen and hit mux, job done.

There is no preset for 18fps but if you go to the 'view' menu before your first mux and choose 'view command line' leave the fps box alone and hit the MUX option.

The command line will open and you can insert your choice of fps in the right part of the command line directly after the fps command.

Hit save and run

The software will do a few other things but for Wolverine owners a quick demux and re mux at a different framerate is all you should need.

It will also join videos seamlessy which is handy for those scans that need to be stopped part way thro for what ever reason and you end up with mulitple video files of one reel.

Use the 'join' tab to add the segements of a dodgy scan and then do the demux/mux ........ job done.

I have taken to muxing everything to 15fps, which I know is not correct, but I happen to like the results.....

MyMP4Box

[ October 09, 2018, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on October 14, 2018, 07:48 AM:
 
BTW, Kodak offers scanning 40 original (for S8, 3-minute) rolls of 8mm film for $560. Does anyone know whether the quality of the scanning is any good?

More info (also with my ("Menneisyys") comment): https://www.dpreview.com/news/5517199130/kodak-digitizing-box-service-breathes-life-into-old-media-with-minimal-effort#comments
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on October 23, 2018, 12:23 PM:
 
Dear users of the wolverine, reflecta, somikon scanners ... would any of you have thought about changing the optics of this scanner?
not the complete block but just the lens of the camera. you have to see the type of mount. if it is the M12 (mount S) in case there are better optics megapixel low distortion that could cleanly improve the resolution while waiting for a more evolved firmware. Even if mp4 compression is low from a scan with good optics would be a plus.
it would be nice to have in the future a firmware with a menu and a choice of output: low definition (default) that currently exists. another medium definition choice (1 image / sec) with a better quality of compression and a high quality choice (1 image / 2 sec) with a high quality or without compression (raw file). It would be really great. sorry for my english...
 
Posted by Patti Mathews (Member # 6706) on November 11, 2018, 03:57 PM:
 
Hello, I got the Winait Film Scanner DV-180N, it looks a lot like the Wolverine,,,

Anyway, I lost the included (or never got) the FPS Converter software that can simply change the frame rate, does anyone here have it or have a link to it?

I asked Richard at Winait and he seem to be too busy to actually help me out
 
Posted by Ken Abruzzo (Member # 6188) on November 12, 2018, 05:32 AM:
 
Patti Mathews - There was never any software included. You didn't lose anything. The framerate software is called MyMP4Box. Mike Spice included a link to it a few posts up from this.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on November 12, 2018, 10:20 AM:
 
here is the link
it only runs on windows pc's
My Mp4 Box

Basic instructions once installed:

go to the demux tab, 'open' a video and hit demux.

Once done (progress bar in the bottom of the window) go to the mux tab, add the H264 file the demux generated, it will be in the same folder as the video you added.

Change the frame rate in the option box at the bottom of the screen and hit mux, job done.

There is no preset for 18fps but if you go to the 'view' menu before your first mux and choose 'view command line' leave the fps box alone and hit the MUX option.

The command line will open and you can insert your choice of fps in the right part of the command line directly after the fps command.

Hit save and run

My own preference is to set fps to 15, I like how that looks.

The software will do a few other things but for Wolverine owners a quick demux and re mux at a different framerate is all you should need.

It will also join videos seamlessy which is handy for those scans that need to be stopped part way thro for what ever reason and you end up with mulitple video files of one reel.

Use the 'join' tab to add the segements of a dodgy scan and then do the demux/mux
 
Posted by Nantawat Kittiwarakul (Member # 6050) on November 12, 2018, 07:25 PM:
 
Or if you don't mind plain old/boring UI and some learning curve,I suggest VirtualDub for frame rate conversion. [Smile]

 -

After importing the clip into Vdub,choose direct stream copy. No re-encoding/recompression required hence lightning fast operation. [Big Grin]

 -

Then just dial in the framerate of your choice. Btw 16fps is the standard speed for Regular8,18fps is for Super8.

 -

The resulted file will be in *.avi extension although the actual video stream inside will remain the same. So there should be no problem playing it.
Actually it could do much more than just framerate conversion,but that's another story. [Wink]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on November 13, 2018, 10:35 AM:
 
VirtualDub is the most incredible bit of software.
I spent 18 months doing a time lapse for work.
I couldn't have done it without VD

That said, not all versions of VD will work with mp4 video so make sure you get the right version.

I was using image sequences (jpgs) to compile a weekly total of some 60Gb of images to turn in to video.

A steep learning curve for a new user, a genius bit of free software.

VD will always be on my laptop, but for wolverine work I have to say MYMP4BOX is much easier for simple frame rate and joining jobs.
 
Posted by Jan Schoonenberg (Member # 6725) on December 09, 2018, 08:06 AM:
 
Hello! I live in Holland and just registered for this Forum. Have perused it at length. Am puzzled about the sequence of messages here.
I have - for the time - just ONE - question. Will post more, a.o. about the European Reflecta.
Question: The Wolverine can be had from B&H and the very large international Mailorder houses. Can someone tell me wether these now (still) have the cogwheel takeup-with-mechanical-stepper instead of the belt (O ring)? this mopdification was provided by the American distributor of the Wolverine late 2017. The European distributor Reflecta still has the early equivalent of the 1917 version with the belt.
AND there were reports of mechanical troubles with the stepper.
So did Wolverine go back to the belt?
If there is interest I will post photo's later. Thanks.
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on December 09, 2018, 04:28 PM:
 
I'm certain there are folks who don't think this is a great idea, however it works for me. I found that using the takeup reel in any of the models causes the image to jerk around. I see in the new pro model they put an extra turn in the takeup path to try to reduce the pull on the film, but it was not successful for me.

Instead of using the take-up reel at all,I have been letting the film go into a large waste basket, which causes no pull whatsoever on the film. If you don't move the basket around while the film is going into it, it seems to rewind quite well with no tangles. This way, it doesn't matter if you have an old machine or a new one, belt or direct drive --- running 50 feet or 400 feet, my results have been smooth since starting this practice. I have an old editor I use for rewinding - much faster than the rotation on the Wolverine take-up mechanism. So, don't sweat the take-up, just bypass it and seems to work much better.
 
Posted by Jan Schoonenberg (Member # 6725) on December 09, 2018, 04:43 PM:
 
Thanks for the repy. I use this method already and it works. But I would rather not have to do that. With statics it collects dust. And it is inconvenient. My question: does the present Wolverine again uses a belt or the cogwheel/stepper still remains.
 
Posted by Phil Cross (Member # 6747) on December 11, 2018, 06:16 AM:
 
Hi,

I have the Wolverine Pro and have started converting a number of 8mm reels. I think I might have put a mark/smudge where picture is taken as a mark is appearing on the digital movies.

What would be the best approach to clean this smudge? Cloth or would I need fluid of some description?

Thanks in advance.
Cheers
Phil

PS Thanks to all who have contributed to this post, has been a great resource.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on December 12, 2018, 11:48 AM:
 
A dry cotton bud gently on the led white cover followed by a shot of air or soft brush is what I would try

Avoid any fluids of any kind.

Can you see a similar mark on the white LED lamp cover with no film in it?

Does the mark on the film show up on the LCD screen when there is no film in the scanner?
 
Posted by Phil Cross (Member # 6747) on December 13, 2018, 04:34 AM:
 
Thanks Mike, will try that out.
 
Posted by Kevin R Sexton (Member # 6774) on December 30, 2018, 09:03 PM:
 
I've just got the Pro version, and test run one reel so far. With the small LCD screen it's hard to judge exposure and sharpness, so I left them on default.
I'm disappointed in the quality of the output, looks like it is captured at less than 1080, highly compressed, then upscaled to 1080. It's not just that there are artifacts, but the size of the artifacts that are wiping out detail.

I've read through about half the posts here, one thing I'm seeing is to set sharpness to low, but are there any other things I should do?
Getting firmware updates from wolverine, and using modified firmware are mentioned here, but seem to only refer to the original model, not the pro.
 -
This is a cropped screenshot from the video I've converted so far.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on December 31, 2018, 02:37 AM:
 
Kevin, is that a still from the original scan on the memory card, untouched by video edit?

Are you able to upload a 20 second clip to you tube for us to see?

I can imagine your disappointment in that quality but I don't have an explanation.

I have seen much better examples from the Pro, as have you.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on December 31, 2018, 03:07 AM:
 
@Kevin R Sexton:

quote:
it's hard to judge exposure and sharpness, so I left them on default
Dial sharpness to minimum to minimize compression artefacts. It's possible the setting has no effect: a firmware version was buggy in this respect (see my earlier posts on this matter in this thread).

quote:
looks like it is captured at less than 1080, highly compressed, then upscaled to 1080
Note that not even the best possible film stock + camera combination can even reach the resolution of 720p. The best one can realistically expect from quality(!) stock like Kodachrome is something a little bit over DVD quality, and that's with the best possible scanning methods (the $5000+ MovieStuff gear). The Wolverine has a little bit worse resolution and significantly worse dynamic range than the 15-times-more-expensive MovieStuff scanner.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on December 31, 2018, 10:13 AM:
 
QUOTE:

Super 8 film has a maximum horizontal resolution of around 900 lines.

9.5mm has 1070 lines '

16mm film has a maximum horizontal resolution of around 1800 lines.

Standard definition video is limited to 576 lines.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on December 31, 2018, 12:55 PM:
 
quote:
Super 8 film has a maximum horizontal resolution of around 900 lines.
Yup; in practice, however, even the best-quality stuff I've bought off eBay and scanned can just surpass the DVD WRT resolution. It's a long way away from 720p. (Of course, it's way better than anything consumer low-band analogue video (VHS / Beta / V8 etc.), and better than even high-band consumer formats like Hi8 or S-VHS, particularly because of the very high color resolution.)

(I don't list the stuff I've shot myself because, back in the day, I shot on AgfaColor Super8 and (because of their very low price) ORWO/Fortepan Std8. AgfaColor is trash compared to Kodachrome (too bad Agfa was more widely available here in Europe than Kodak and, consequently, I shot Agfa back then). And while ORWO produced way better quality than most people think, the format - Std8 - just doesn't have much resolution.)
 
Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 31, 2018, 04:00 PM:
 
Werner, was Agfacolor the same as Gevacolor (Agfa-Geavart)? I shot a few rolls of Gevacolor on double 8mm back in the 1950's, and its now all completely pink, whereas my 1950 Kodachrome's looks like it was processed yesterday.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on January 01, 2019, 03:49 AM:
 
Yup, it uses the same tech as Agfa - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gevacolor

Interestingly, Agfa's earlier color tech ages much better than the one they produced in the 50...80's. For example, I have several rolls of East-German Std8 Agfa films shot in 1955 and 1956. (GDR used the "Agfa" trademark up until 1964 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORWO -, when they switched to "ORWO".) Those films still use Agfa's 40's color technology and show no color swifts. (Of course, their resolution is significantly worse than B/W film produced by the same factory.) ORWO, fortunately (as, back in the day, I shot a lot of color Std8 rolls on ORWO), later has always produced decently-aging film.

Some examples of these GDR films (look for the 1955/1956 films; about half of them are color): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4_1cuziVtq9GS95obZZnNCfD7ol_M8XM
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on January 01, 2019, 11:55 AM:
 
I have the Pro model. I only convert home movies filmed aboard Navy ships. A LOT! I do all conversions with the exposure (shutter/f-stop) set to the minimum -2.0, and sharpness set to low. That seems to largely minimize the artifacts discussed elsewhere. The only issue I have experienced is a flicker effect, as scenes go from dark to bright, or worse, dark foreground with bright background.

I discussed this at length with the Wolverine technical support folks, and we came up with an idea that has 100% eliminated the flicker problem; shining a light at the camera. Not directly, but enough to trick the sensor.

I am attaching a photo, demonstrating this. I simply use my iPhone (while plugged in!). I haven't seen any other comments on the flicker issue, also maybe strobing, but decided to chime in anyway, in case it helps someone else...

Gary

PS:.I can't seem to load a photo. Contact me directly, and I'll happily provide one.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on January 01, 2019, 02:47 PM:
 
Sure I'd be interested in the photo. info AT winmobiletech DOT com; I can then repost the image here for the others.
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on January 01, 2019, 03:32 PM:
 
Just sent.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on January 01, 2019, 03:49 PM:
 
Here it is:

 -
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on January 01, 2019, 04:22 PM:
 
My point with the photo is to show where I am pointing the illumination, and also show that the captured image is not impacted. But the flicker/strobe effect is completely eliminated. The iPhone is till I come up with something permanent.

If interested, the film is a home movie from USS Leyte (CVS-32), launching a S-2F Tracker in 1956.
 
Posted by Bill Sherren (Member # 6743) on January 02, 2019, 09:06 AM:
 
Gary, do you use the light on all the footage or just bits that might strobe? Also I see you miss the top two roller guides when lacing the film. Was that to improve steadiness of the image?
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on January 02, 2019, 09:29 AM:
 
Bill,
Yes, I keep the light on for the entire run. For my purposes (i.e., amateur films constantly panning from dark to light, etc, with the bright ocean as a backdrop), that works best. As for skipping the pegs, yes; that seems to eliminate the hurky-jerky issue.
 
Posted by Bill Sherren (Member # 6743) on January 02, 2019, 01:09 PM:
 
Thanks for the info Gary. I also notice on your machine it suggests it just had two tabs to fit the film under both on the sprocket hole side. My Pro has three tabs one in the middle of the sprocket hole side. And the two on the other edge of the film.
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on January 02, 2019, 01:51 PM:
 
Bill, that's interesting; that third tab could be very useful with film suffering from vinegar syndrome, where it is wavy, but salvageable.

I also own a Moviestuff RetroScan. Surprisingly, as is, my Wolverine handles wavy film better than the RetroScan. I like the Wolverine mostly because it isn't tied to a computer. And since I only deal with home movies filmed by sailors, the difference between the two scanners is negligible. I do use the RetroScan for films showing unique or historic events, or scenes filmed in very low light.

I have seen a lot of posts bashing the Wolverine, but I haven't experienced the issues. But I also know not to expect broadcast quality video from 8mm film!!!
 
Posted by Jim Elder (Member # 6780) on January 02, 2019, 04:45 PM:
 
Jan Schoonenberg asked what version of the Wolverine 8mm movie scanner is currently being shipped by B&H. I received a unit from B&H in Dec; here's what it looks like inside:

 -

The black rectangle at the right is a small fan (viewed here edge-on) which activates when the scanner is scanning. The back cover (removed here) has four sets of small vents.

The version it reports is 20180419-ZS09

(Wolverine calls this unit a 'Wolverine 8mm and Super 8 3" and 5" Movie Reel to Digital MovieMaker')

[ January 03, 2019, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: Jim Elder ]
 
Posted by Jan Schoonenberg (Member # 6725) on January 02, 2019, 05:31 PM:
 
Thank you. This is very helpful. Question: is this now called the Wolverine PLUS? And can handle larger reels than the non-Plus?
I received a catalog from B&H last week but it does not have the Wolverine. Different catalog for Europe maybe?
 
Posted by Jim Elder (Member # 6780) on January 03, 2019, 10:46 AM:
 
Jan, Wolverine calls the unit a 'Wolverine 8mm and Super 8 3" and 5" Movie Reel to Digital MovieMaker'. AFAIK, they make two models, this one and another that can mount larger reels and has a higher resolution scanner. Check their website (www.wolverinedata.com).

(I also edited the earlier posting to include the product name)
 
Posted by Jan Schoonenberg (Member # 6725) on January 03, 2019, 11:12 AM:
 
I just downloaded the Version 3.0 of the manual from Wolverine. 14 pages. It is the moviemaker PRO . For up to 9" reels. Image sensor 2304H x 1636V. Warranty in the US only. 1 Year or 200 reels (every stop counts for a reel). So glue small reels together [Wink]
Interesting: reverse reels for rewind. Should go faster thanks to the steppermotor.
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on January 03, 2019, 12:07 PM:
 
Jan, I have a Pro, and while the motor does a good job advancing the take up reel during captures, it really sucks for rewinding. Very slow. I simply use another projector for rewinding...
 
Posted by Bill Sherren (Member # 6743) on January 03, 2019, 12:37 PM:
 
Gary I have just tried another scan missing those two top pegs and this one has on the whole be far steadier. I did need to do a frame adjust as the frame was visible. I had pressed the default setting before scanning which on earlier scans gave a full frame. But not this time! This particular reel does suffer a lot of flickering but don't have a light source such as a mobile to use at the moment. In the Wolverine instructions it calls the exposure auto/manual. But guess even the manual setting is still adjusting the light levels as I would have expected using manual to solve the flickering issue . Will need to see if the altered film path stops this damage to the sprockets or not. As that is the most important issue to eliminate! Thanks for your help...
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on January 03, 2019, 01:03 PM:
 
@Jim Elder:

quote:
The version it reports is 20180419-ZS09
That is, there is a newer firmware version out there than the one most of us have. Does anyone know where to download it from? Could please somebody mail the Winait folks and ask if they could make the firmware public?

This thread also mentioned somikon.de as the source of the firmware, which is the same as pearl.de (with the link below). Unfortunately, the pearl.de firmware at https://www.pearl.de/support/product.jsp?pdid=NX4294 is the currently only “official” and downloadable firmware I know of. It is buggy as I’ve explained in the 13th post (posted March 24, 2018 10:06 AM) on page 13 ( http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=011395;p= 13 ) of this thread.

Therefore, I use and currently recommend the 30 fps 16 Mbps hacked one at http://retromania.pandelground.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/FWDV180N_1440x108 0_24fps_8000.zip . It has the internal version of 20170511-ZS04. That is, it's about a year older than the one you've posted about.
 
Posted by Kevin R Sexton (Member # 6774) on January 05, 2019, 07:50 PM:
 
Here's a clip from the file, hopefully I got it cut without changing quality, of course then youtube does their own thing with it. https://youtu.be/kKACsgEHCAU

Going to try redoing it tomorrow with the low sharpness setting, along with trying to find what firmware version it's on.
If it was recording beyond the limits of the original film, I'd expect to see grain. This looks more to me like pixelation, then resizing up with poor interpolation combined with an excessive sharpening filter.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on January 06, 2019, 12:33 AM:
 
Yup, sharpening MUST be dialed down. BTW, if it's the 20fps firmware, it might have a non-working sharpening setting. (No matter what you set, it captures with the default sharpness.)

BTW, your footage seems to overcapture between the sprocket holes - something pretty common, with, for example, the Kodak Brownies. This essentially makes the footage "widescreen". This is why I scan footage like this fully zoomed out (W=0) so that I can also include the "overcapture" area in the scanned footage too.
 
Posted by Kevin R Sexton (Member # 6774) on January 06, 2019, 06:04 PM:
 
Firmware is 20180323-ZS08
As far as we know the film was recorded with an Argus camera, image does go halfway through the sprockets. I'm running the transfer right now on low sharpness. Once it's dark I'm going to try to get a still captured off a projector screen to compare.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on January 07, 2019, 04:07 AM:
 
Thanks! That is, there are at least two 2018 firmware versions: 20180323-ZS08 and 20180419-ZS09. Is anyone here in email conversation with the Winait folks so that we could ask them to make these new firmware versions public?
 
Posted by Bill Sherren (Member # 6743) on January 08, 2019, 10:21 AM:
 
My Wolverine Pro has the 20180323-ZS08 firmware which I am assuming is one of the buggy ones? Since getting the unit I have always set it to low and it appears to keep this between power ups. It only changes if I click on default. But I them reset to low. However of my 25 recordings so far only two are obviously less noisy and using the low setting. All the others much more noise and these include further scans of the ones that look better. Is that typical of the buggy firmware that sometimes it works but usually not?! Can't Wolverine get anything right?
 
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 08, 2019, 11:24 AM:
 
Why would anyone buy one of these things??
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on January 09, 2019, 10:59 AM:
 
ROB YOUNG

This is why!

Super 8 scanned with a Wolverine

[ January 12, 2019, 05:30 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 09, 2019, 12:35 PM:
 
Hi Mike, I take your point. [Smile]

But I read of so much hassle with these machines both here on the forum and elsewhere that maybe I just wished they worked better. [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Bill Sherren (Member # 6743) on January 09, 2019, 11:44 PM:
 
Wolverine scanner made in China designed by Heath Robinson!
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on January 10, 2019, 01:46 PM:
 
quote:
But I read of so much hassle with these machines both here on the forum and elsewhere that maybe I just wished they worked better.
Yup - you get what you pay for. The other alternative producing even better image quality would be the MovieStuff scanners. At more than ten times the price, particularly if you're outside the US (additional customs and stuff).
 
Posted by Kev Morrison (Member # 6338) on January 10, 2019, 09:53 PM:
 
Mike,

Thanks for your web link to your Royal Navy movies - VERY cool!
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on January 11, 2019, 09:08 AM:
 
Mike,
Did you serve in the Royal Navy?
 
Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on January 11, 2019, 05:05 PM:
 
Mike's film is both amazing and not what it should be. So long as nobody expects a definitive-quality transfer off of this thing, then fine. But a professional 2K scan of that footage would look strides better. PLUS $$$.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on January 12, 2019, 04:48 AM:
 
KEV you are welcome.
Not all the footage on my youtube is mine, quite a lot of it is from reels sent to me to scan for other Navy lads.
Those reels are watermarked.

All the 8mm footage on my Utube has been made with the 720p Wolverine, with the exception of one DVD rip of cine film.
Most of the examples at UTube are only 576p for ease of uploading

GARY yes I did serve in the RN. 1974-1986 A cook.

BILL Funny you mention that, over the xmas break I have gone through my reels and edited every Ship and flying shot down to two reels, around 600ft.

The Ark Royal footage most certainly deserves a professional scan, it is historical footage indeed.

I am now choosing which of two companies I am going to send the reels to for a proper scan.

I am almost certainly sending it for a 2.5K Retroscan here in the UK, but I am also considering the reels going to a company who use a Muller HD scanner.

I expect to pay between £100 and £200 but a few bills to pay, so it is coming in the next few months hopefully.

I wish I could afford to have all my reels scanned that way, I have some lovely shots of my late mum & family members and sisters kids growing up.

[ January 12, 2019, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Bill Sherren (Member # 6743) on January 12, 2019, 08:41 AM:
 
Mike Spice- Are the bulk of your films you scan Super 8? Do you do many Std 8mm? All mine are STD 8mm but I did find an old Super 8mm which I shot in the 80's. When I scan this while it was still unsteady did not show any damage to the sprocket holes unlike the STD 8mm scans. So perhaps the possible erratic width is to blame. When you use the box for collecting the film I guess you miss out all the rollers on the Wolverine?
Is one of companies you are considering Gauge Films?
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on January 12, 2019, 09:03 AM:
 
Mike: I flew as a Seaking helicopter crewman in the U.S. Navy. We loved delivering mail to you guys. The bag was always returned with good food and generous amounts of beer!!!

Now to the Wolverine. Maybe what I'm going to say here is from Captain Obvious, but... When discussing image quality, one really must first consider the image on the film being scanned, as well as the condition of the film, etc. I see folks converting 'boxes of home movies' talking to folks who are converting professional home movies, as in feature films that were purchased. Needless to say, there is a world of difference there.

My point here is that if your 8mm film is grainy, or filmed in poor lighting, or over exposed, or on poor quality film stock (or developed overseas with substandard chemicals), etc., no scanner will make the film look like a broadcast quality video.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. You can use a scanner on film of less than optimal quality. The quality of the image will remain less than optimal.

Again, I realize I am probably stating the obvious here, but there it is...
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on January 12, 2019, 09:42 AM:
 
BILL My own films were all Super8 but I have scanned many hundreds of feet of Standard 8 for other folk.

An example of Standard 8mm from 1959

I found the standard 8 held it's colour up much better over the years, in some cases, looking quite beautiful.

Using a box to collect the film, yes, the film exits the scanner gate, goes over the top of the first roller, and then over the edge of the work surface to a box below.

Gauge films is one of the two I am considering, the other being Penny Lane who have a 2.5k Retroscan

GARY My films are in reasonable condition, as much as I enjoy the 720p scans, I do want to see what can be pulled off the film with a proper scan, hence only putting the Navy clips in to one reel to save costs.

I certainly am not looking for broadcast quality from S8 but it would nice to be able to see my Phantoms without so much pixelating in full screen and have the chance to see a full overscan of the frames
 
Posted by Gary Schreffler (Member # 5945) on January 12, 2019, 09:48 AM:
 
Mike, for my better films, I use a Workprinter XP (made by Moviestuff). I also have access to a Moviestuff scanner. I do Navy films all the time. I also convert home movies for fellow vets free of charge. I would not mind doing yours for you, if that helps...
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on January 12, 2019, 09:53 AM:
 
Cheers for the offer Gary, that's very kind of you, but sending my reels to the USA is not something I want to do. Other than the cost, I don't want to risk them going astray
 
Posted by Bill Sherren (Member # 6743) on January 12, 2019, 11:43 AM:
 
I see that Gauge Films are getting the latest Muller HD+ scanner in the next month or so.
Not sure who did the scan but saw a 2K wetgate scan of an amateur Standard 8mm film which was filmed on a basic Eumig camera. It was screened at the BFI and looked glorious. And showed just how much detail is contained in a 8mm frame. It was taken during the filming of The Prisoner tv series. And when shown along side sequences from the series which were filmed using 35mm really just looked like out-takes!
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on January 12, 2019, 03:17 PM:
 
BILL I saw that too, on the FB page.
I don't know if I want my Super 8 going thro' a wet gate...

I would like an overscan, which I am not sure the Retroscan does, so Gauge are my first choice at the moment.
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on January 14, 2019, 11:27 PM:
 
quote:
Did you serve in the Royal Navy?
Talking about the Navy / Army... Recently, I've purchased several rolls of private S8 footage; some of them having army-related stuff. I've scanned them all.

The most interesting are as follows: Vietnam, around 1970 (the films stock's manufacture date was between 03/1969 and 10/1969):

Roll 1: https://youtu.be/jXD1UQIGZtU
Roll 2: https://youtu.be/N97tVjdF4RE
Roll 3: https://youtu.be/CzeaFzNz1U8

(Note that Roll 2 and 3 have some 7 and 0.5 minutes (respectively) shot elsewhere (UK and Australia), when the soldier in question had a holiday there.)

Several Military Police companies have been filmed: 630th, T-3938, T-2090 etc.

This footage has never been scanned / published anywhere (I've looked thru the Vietnam-specific S8 archives).

Other, army-related stuff, which may also interest you: Marine Corp Days 1970 1971 1972 USMC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4WSAghq0TA

This film, among other things, has some kind of a celebration at Rock Creek & Potomac Parkway.

(Note that I've also purchased another roll of the same subject ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWwWHkDMfeo ) but it doesn't seem to have official stuff (celebrations etc.), "only" having a good time, presumably - based on the labels of the films) with other ex-Marine Corp members.)

Also, you may also want to check out my older but still VERY interesting uploads (I've previously posted these links to Page 13 of this thread so you may already have seen these):

Original 12p(!!!) versions:

In the German Army, 1964 - 1 https://youtu.be/xKidGxNgn14
In the German Army, 1964 - 2 https://youtu.be/ntez1LH-bYE

60p (processed) versions:

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3XBthKlNPs
2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBGSCtX4xo4
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 02, 2019, 01:06 PM:
 
I am new to the forum. Lots of interesting evening reading and thank you for that. I have a Wolverine Pro Model and not happy with the level of compression. Contacted Wolverine Data and they replied that the Novatel chip is in a time lapse movie mode i.e no intermediate images saved.The chip takes stills at programmed intervals and creates the MP4 on a fly. The stills are not saved
(my guess). I tried yanking the sd card out while recording and the SD recovery software and indeed detected a corrupt MP4 file that was not properly closed. If this all is indeed true than we do not have much hope of getting the raw stills. Unless we develop our own patch that would access the cam and save images at regular intervals.... That is a big job. I have done it in my younger years and not sure if I have enough patience for that. Another idea. Pull the cam out and install another one like the RPI cam. Set RPI cadence to match the step motor... I kinda like that.
 
Posted by Kevin R Sexton (Member # 6774) on February 02, 2019, 07:13 PM:
 
I had that thought about using a raspberry pi to modify this hardware. There are several projects with posts online that either use a raspberry pi with projector hardware or custom hardware. It should be possible with the camera in the wolverine, or a rpi camera, to get a silly high resolution capture that would show all the film grain.
I think that's actually something that the manufacturer intentionally is avoiding. What looks like compression seems to be they are smoothing the grain out, and then running a sharpen filter on the image. On low sharpness the sharpen filter is barely noticeable, the variations that look like compression and sharpening appear to be originating from the grain.
The newer firmware goes back to high sharpness setting after power off/on, but displays the sharpness setting you had it on. I've been turning sharpness to high, then back to low each time I start, so that's a bug they need to fix.

But again, I don't think it's really compression that's the issue, since I've looked at the same frames through a projector, and it really doesn't look sharper and even put the film across a microscope and seen how big the grains really are.
Better could be done with true high res images, that could be lined up to remove jitter in software, along with making corrections in color, contrast etc frame by frame. Some of those RPI projects appear to do this, but it seems like it would be a lot of work getting from what's posted to a working setup.
 
Posted by Kevin R Sexton (Member # 6774) on February 02, 2019, 10:52 PM:
 
Here is one of the videos I've just got up, 1967 rose parade, one of the few times my grandfather apparently used a whole reel at one location.
https://youtu.be/8l5IutSp0W8 full frame
https://youtu.be/IkvpJoAD7e8 zoomed out

Once I get everything captured, most of them are going to have to be cut up and reassembled to separate family stuff from other stuff that may be of interest to others that can be published publicly. On a 5 minute reel it may go from landscapes seen on vacation, to family shots, to flowers, to one of my uncle's childhood birthday parties.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 02, 2019, 11:23 PM:
 
Compared my Wolverine capture against the machine that I put together with a Pen SLR. The jpg tiling is definitely visible in the Wolverine frames:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/nMdrbeUQSg2S4xMq9
 
Posted by Kevin R Sexton (Member # 6774) on February 03, 2019, 01:22 AM:
 
I think that image you captured is showing one of the things the wolverine is set to avoid. On your image, there are red and green blotches on the pavement. On the wolverine, the pavement looks grey. The same effect is on the grass, and to some extent the curb. The blotches are probably from the film grain, look at the film frame itself with enough magnification, and you'd see the whole image is made up of crystals of these colors.
I think they intentionally are processing the image to reduce the effect, and somehow the wolverine image looks more detailed except in the areas of grass that look smoothed or blurred.
 
Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on February 03, 2019, 03:54 AM:
 
In that case the Wolverine image looks less like the original. I think most people here would like have the raw output and be able to control the amount of picture processing in post production adjustment.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on February 03, 2019, 02:06 PM:
 
I would walk over hot coals to have an image sequence from a wolverine.
 
Posted by Nantawat Kittiwarakul (Member # 6050) on February 03, 2019, 08:40 PM:
 
From Stan Jelavic's post

quote:
Novatel chip is in a time lapse movie mode i.e no intermediate images saved.The chip takes stills at programmed intervals and creates the MP4 on a fly. The stills are not saved
So it's hardware compression process,which means camera's raw data goes directly into the encoding chip. Then forget forget about "raw" output hack,it weren't even exist right from the beginning. [Frown]

This literally seals of any of my consideration to this Wolverine unit. Wouldn't worth the investment.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 04, 2019, 08:53 PM:
 
I would not completely rule it out. Maybe they still cache the images somewhere in the memory. Would need a terminal access and do the memory dump. Then search for image headers. A few more crazy ideas:
- Grab images with a tube microscope and 45 deg mirror - have one and will try that.
- Grab tv video out... run through usb pc capture. Probably lo rez?
 
Posted by Werner Ruotsalainen (Member # 6217) on February 04, 2019, 10:56 PM:
 
quote:
Grab tv video out... run through usb pc capture. Probably lo rez?
The built-in TV out is SD (Standard Definition); that is, far inferior to the 1440*1080 native resolution of the scanner. (Now, it's another question very few films have actually better luminance resolution as SD. Color resolution can certainly be better than that oif PAL / NTSC.)
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 07, 2019, 07:19 AM:
 
Tried the microscope and it did not work. The issue is that it is not possible to get close enough to the film to get adequate magnification. Will try the TV out capture next.
 
Posted by Roberto Paoli (Member # 6821) on February 08, 2019, 11:32 AM:
 


[ February 08, 2019, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: Roberto Paoli ]
 
Posted by Roberto Paoli (Member # 6821) on February 08, 2019, 11:33 AM:
 


[ February 08, 2019, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: Roberto Paoli ]
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 10, 2019, 03:09 PM:
 
The TV output will not work as expected. It is lower rez and it has text on it.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bKBY7PMBpG6EJXo48
Oh well. Has anyone managed to get the terminal working with Wolverine? I saw some guys did it with the dash cams. With debug console it may be possible to get the memory dump and check for image content. Once we know where the frame resides in the memory it can be extracted. But at 115kbps uart and large frame and 0.5 sec time lapse between the frames this could be an issue. Would have to slow the machine down. Ouch.
 
Posted by Nantawat Kittiwarakul (Member # 6050) on February 10, 2019, 06:50 PM:
 
Speaking about usb microscope...

Duh,forgot that I already have a usb webcam with removable lens (probably standard M12 lens) lying around somewhere in my attic. Will try that out someday. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 10, 2019, 07:05 PM:
 
Found the UART port. It is 38.4 kbps and I can see the data coming out on the Tx pin. Pin 2 from the left looking from the back of the unit. Assume pin 3 is Rx. Pin 1 ground and pin 4 +3.3V supply.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/d45DhopRHK5NkSxMA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/C3nV73fckoktFiUZ8
Have to get the uart to usb converter. They are pretty inexpensive.

Here is some more news. I managed to pull the complete transport with the gate and leds out of the unit. It is a bit fiddly but not too hard. Please don't try it by yourself before I put the instructions here. You risk breaking the led connector. Everything still works OK. So I plan to do my own arrangement of the components with my own better cam. I would still let their sw drive the stepper.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7qAp1ZVhPAD9Y6FfA
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 11, 2019, 09:00 PM:
 
Reinstalled the transport back in and pulled the camera and the display out so that I can get close to the gate with the Teslong microscope. Here is the comparison.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LqUEN5QEuD6CxL3P9
The microscope image is in the right hand side.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on February 12, 2019, 09:03 AM:
 
Stan Simply amazing!
Carry on the great work, it is really nice to see someone going under the hood.
I will be following this with great interest.
Thanks for sharing the images and the research with us.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 12, 2019, 08:23 PM:
 
Thanks Mike. Doing it in the evening a bit. Supposed to be retired but went back to work. Still have a few hours in the evening to play with some cool stuff [Smile]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on February 13, 2019, 10:41 AM:
 
There's no point in being retired and having that test equipment sitting there doing nothing!

[Smile]

Please keep up the amazing work, I have thoughts of doing this to my Wolverine, but would probably try and use a better quality image sensor, I favour a Go Pro with some kind of macro lens but triggering it would be very difficult as there is no remote to speak of with a go pro.

Being retired is great, it means you can wipe the floor with wolverine data and show them how it should be done.

Thanks again for your tireless work in pulling the darned thing apart and finding out what the heck is going on inside.

Really good work there.....
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on February 13, 2019, 05:12 PM:
 
Great job! I think it is possible to improve the quality a lot by just changing the optics of the camera without changing the sensor. it looks like it's M12 of f12mm. a m12 macro lens of 12mm (scorpion vision). just replace the original one which is a low end. What do you think ? [Smile]
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 13, 2019, 11:39 PM:
 
Thanks again Mike and Kamel. The gopro is a possibility. Mechanically it should fit ok.. see the picture.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Uhxjh4i8F34PuQQQ6
I am a bit concerned changing the lens. Any recommendations?
The film gate is roughly 40mm from the Wolverine camera lens. Super8 film diag is 7mm and the gopro hero4 sensor is 11mm. So the lens focal length would have to be around 25mm.
I don't think the remote control is an issue. Could use the camera API and write your own python control code.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on February 14, 2019, 05:04 AM:
 
an M12 macro lens F12mm
http://www.scorpionvision.co.uk/Catalog/Machine-Vision-Lens/m12-lenses/near-field-far-field-m12-lenses/s-mount-12mm-f2-8-macro-lens
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on February 14, 2019, 07:12 AM:
 
Stan You only went and put a Go Pro in there!

I have great faith in the GoPro as I spent 18 months doing a time lapse, the Go Pro and VirtualDub produced the most amazing results.
If I could apply that same quality to my 8mm scans, life would be perfect.

I know nothing about Python, except Monty Python [Smile]

I wouldn't know where to start to make a GoPro trigger in time with the gate of the scanner.

Thanks again for your brilliant research in to this.

Kamel great idea about changing the lens too
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 14, 2019, 07:53 PM:
 
Happy to hear that the gopro would be a good choice and that you are happy with it Mike. I put it there just to see if the film gate would align with the gopro so that I could use the unchanged transport. It looks doable. So here is what I am thinking:
- Replace gopro lens with the macro lens, possibly 25mm
- design a bracket for the gopro
- Replace Wolverine controller with RPI
- Python code controlling the camera and the stepper
- Interface board for the stepper + LEDs etc
Python became very popular programming language and I have been using it for almost 4 years on different projects.
Here is one example of the gopro python library.
https://goprohero.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
 
Posted by Nantawat Kittiwarakul (Member # 6050) on February 15, 2019, 04:16 AM:
 
Just got an idea. [Roll Eyes] Instead of remotely controlling the Gopro from external device...

Would it be simpler to set it in photo/still image mode,and hard-wired its shutter release switch to the mechanics. Then let it taking the still image sequence of each film frame (will be TONS of them of course). Pop the memory card out when done,copying them into pc. And finally stitch them back together via your NLE of choice,done. [Big Grin]

(Essentially,more or less the same in principle as most DIY Super8 scanners I had seen)
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on February 15, 2019, 09:55 AM:
 
I do wonder about timing the remote of a go pro over http and still get precise timing with the gate.

I would have thought it needs a camera that can be instantly triggered per frame, presumably using the same triggering circuit as the Wolverine uses....as Nantawat suggests

[ February 15, 2019, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Nantawat Kittiwarakul (Member # 6050) on February 15, 2019, 07:17 PM:
 
That's EXACTLY my point.
Hardware wired-shutter release = simple,reliable,and least latency trigger operation. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 15, 2019, 07:50 PM:
 
It is a valid concern but since the frame stays still for a few hundred ms it may be ok. Guess will have to try it. The gopro will have to be modified for macro lens. Possibly use the ribcage air?
The wolverine lens is a system of two coated lenses. Seems pretty good quality but would have to do the tests to be sure. Possibly test it with the gopro. I did some lens calculations before I pulled this one out and concluded that it must be a two lens system. Pretty simple basic geometry.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 15, 2019, 08:13 PM:
 
It is a valid concern but since the frame stays still for a few hundred ms it may be ok. Guess will have to try it. The gopro will have to be modified for macro lens. Possibly use the ribcage air?
The wolverine lens is a system of two coated lenses. Seems pretty good quality but would have to do the tests to be sure. Possibly test it with the gopro. I did some lens calculations before I pulled this one out and concluded that it must be a two lens system. Pretty simple basic geometry.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 16, 2019, 10:34 AM:
 
Regarding the gopro, Couldn't it be used in time lapse mode and triggered only once.

Did some more browsing and found some info on the optics used on the Wolverine.
Sensor:
https://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=AR0330
Lens very similar to this (it is 12mm):
https://www.lensation.de/product/B5M12028/

Just for the heck of it focused the lens to infinity and checked the scenery shot quality and was not very impressed. But then again it is a small cheap display. Will see if I can grab the image. BTW with the motor disconnected the sw goes into a preview mode and the buttons are not active. If we can get the frame then could run a lens quality test.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 17, 2019, 07:18 AM:
 
Regarding the gopro, Couldn't it be used in time lapse mode and triggered only once.

Did some more browsing and found some info on the optics used on the Wolverine.
Sensor:
https://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=AR0330
Lens very similar to this (it is 12mm):
https://www.lensation.de/product/B5M12028/

Just for the heck of it focused the lens to infinity and checked the scenery shot quality and was not very impressed. But then again it is a small cheap display. Will see if I can grab the image. BTW with the motor disconnected the sw goes into a preview mode and the buttons are not active. If we can get the frame then could run a lens quality test.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 17, 2019, 06:50 PM:
 
Got the console working but cannot switch it to the command mode. So it is not of much use at this point:
NPT
DV180N Loader NT96650 Start ...

650DDR3_300_1024Mb 07/23/2015 15:56:42

MID=000000C2TYPE=00000020,SIZE=00000016

RFlsh
R
PL
RCPU/OCP/APB = 432/432/80 Mhz, DMA = 300 Mhz
Clk verify PASS

=========================================================
NT96650 SDK
Copyright (c) 2012 Novatek Microelectronic Corp.
=========================================================
Hello, World!
> Enter DSC
bind - begin!
bind - end!
event loop - begin!
ERR:ramdsk_setParam() No Implement! uiEvt 1
[LOAD-FW]
Total Sections = 2
Section-01: Range[0x80000000~0x800AB000] Size=0x000AB000 (LOAD)
PL_begin
Section-02: Range[0x800AA824~0x803DDCB8] Size=0x00333494 (LOAD)
PL_end

---------------------------------------------------------
LD VERISON: LD650
FW --- Daily Build: $Date: 12/09/24 6:56p $
---------------------------------------------------------

ERR:pll_setClockFreq() Target(4) freq can not be divided with no remainder! Result is 24750000Hz.
ERR:DrvLCDState() state=0x06 not support!
[DOUT1]: device = [Display_LCD], state = [STOP], mode = [0x00, 480x240]
[DOUT2]: device = [N/A], lockdevice = [N/A]
ERR:PStore_OpenSection() Section not found, name: DEFAULT, op: 0x1
ERR:SectionRead_Header() HEADER open to read FAIL
----------MBMA150_Init----------
ERR: open I2C driver sucess!!!!!!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR: Error transmit data1!!
ERR:Ux_GetRootWindow() wnd not created
ERR:PStore_OpenSection() Section not found, name: ONLOGO, op: 0x1
ERR: Section PS_BG_LOGO open fail
ERR:PStore_CloseSection() Invalid handler 0
ERR:Ux_GetRootWindow() wnd not created
ERR:fs_ParingDiskInfo() Parsing PBR FAIL
.ERR:fs_StorageDrvInit() Parsing Disk info fail.
ERR:FST_CMDSysInit() File system init fail and will idle. -259
ERR:Ux_GetRootWindow() wnd not created
ERR:Ux_GetRootWindow() wnd not created
KENPHY SHOW MovieExe_OnColor:0
WRN:_GxSound_Play() Snd Data Size Not Word-Alignment=75670
ERR:aud_addBufferToQueue() buf size not word align: 0x12796
ERR:DrvNANDState() state=0x03 not support!
ERR:DrvNANDState() state=0x03 not support!
FL_CardStatus=0
Mode {MOVIE} Open begin
MODE -1->2
DrvSensor_GetObj1st
ERR:Init_AR0330() ^GOTPM v5
ERR:Init_AR0330() Chip version is 0x2604
ERR:ChgMode_AR0330() ChgMode_AR0330 to 4...
ERR:AF_Open() #Register AF event table.
ERR:IPL_SIEClkCBFlowC() SIEclk = 120000000
ERR:pre_open() PLL6 selected but not enabled...
ERR:IPL_SIESetCAVIG_FCB() CA VIG Setting not ready
ERR:AF_Tsk() #Entered AF_Tsk
KENPHY SHOW NEG:0, TARGET:2880
KENPHY SHOW NEG:0, TARGET:2880
KENPHY SHOW NEG:0, TARGET:2880
no CB2222222
ERR:IPL_FCB_Alg3DNR() ^G3DNR on..
ERR:IPL_FCB_AlgWDR() ^GIPL_FCB_AlgWDR = 6..
ERR:pwm_pwmDisable() not opened yet!
ERR:FileDB_CurrFile() u32TotalFilesNum=0
fileid:0
KENPHY SHOW INIT:0
KENPHY SHOW MovieExe_OnColor:0
ERR:IPL_FCB_AlgIE() ^GWDR OFF..
[BMA150DThresHoldSet][212] Thres:1000
KENPHY SHOW NEG:0, TARGET:720
KENPHY SHOW NEG:0, TARGET:720
KENPHY SHOW NEG:0, TARGET:720
KENPHY SHOW NEG:0, TARGET:720
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 18, 2019, 08:46 AM:
 
Here is the lens calculation.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WcGtQiMWWWvHFAXi6
Note that with the 12mm lens only half of the sensor is used.
Since the sensor rez is 2304(H) x 1536(V), that is ok to create the 1080P video. Similar cropping will happen with the gopro hero4 sensor. So I will look into how close I can get to the sensor with the gopro. Even if the transport is taken out the stepper is in the way...
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on February 18, 2019, 09:40 AM:
 
Using the go pro in timelapse mode would not work, the wolverine transport moves at 2fps and the go pro does not do 2fps.

Even if it did, there would be no guarantee things would stay in sync for the duration.

Perhaps a different sensor, triggered from the Wolverine circuitry is the way to go, but it would need to be able to write an image sequence to a memory card and keep up with 2fps for up to 4 hours for a 400ft reel.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 18, 2019, 09:26 PM:
 
Valid concern about syncing the gopro. Possibly use the motor shield and control the stepper. Not sure what type of gopro you have Mike but my Hero4 does 0.5 sec time lapse. Not saying that I will go that way but definitely want to test that. Here are some preliminary shots with the gopro and timelapse set to 0.5 sec.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/F8UK8mUmS4sjmA516
Obviously a new lens is needed. I am waiting for my ribcage mod. Plan to use the wolverine 12mm lens initially and do some tests with it and the gopro. Ultimately get a new lens.
One more thing, note how well aligned is gopro with the gate. It sits right on top of the stepper so it will be pretty easy to come up with the mounting bracket for it.
 
Posted by Colin Simpson (Member # 6872) on February 22, 2019, 12:47 PM:
 
I have one of these units (the winait) and it's very frustrating. It's so close to all I need for most of my historic films. Such a shame that the decent resolution of the camera and ease of use is lost by bad mpeg encoding.

I (as imagine others have) contacted Winait and asked if they could have an expert mode to save high quality jpegs of each image. They said it "it can not scan out the raw frame".

I'd be surprised if the chipset/controller used stopped you doing this, but I guess it's possible that this can't just be fixed in software. Even if it ran at a slower rate. I'd be interested if anyone ever manages to hack a new firmware or designs a new controller board to improve this.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 22, 2019, 08:33 PM:
 
Here is a brief update from my man's cave. Looks like my ribcage order will take a few weeks before it gets here. In the meantime will try to control the stepper from my RPI. It looks like the stepper has an encoder with only two wires so maybe it is just a position indicator in oppose to having three wires or more for a true angle detect. Maybe that contributes to the jitter issue.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on February 23, 2019, 04:19 AM:
 
Interesting point about the stepper motor Stan but I have managed to get jitter free scans by not using the take up reel and allowing the film to drop in a box, so the accuracy of the step seems to be ok.

I think the biggest problem is the awful take up mechanism and cheap clutch on the take up, along with trying to make a rubbish little motor do rewinding and take up.

Keep up the splendid work.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 23, 2019, 03:29 PM:
 
Glad to hear that these is a solution to this big issue Mike. Should say one of several big issues. I started working on the stepper and figured out how they provide the feedback for the stepper. There are two optical detectors implemented. They are under the gate and close to the claw. Each one has 4 wires (2 for led power and 2 for optical switch). One detector is used to sense the claw end motion and the other for the 8 - super8 switch. I wanted to know at what point of the claw movement the picture is taken and it is at the start.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WHjvcccfqEHwHMis7
Once I have the control of the stepper and the takeup motor there may be a better way by shutting off the takeup and then turn it back on after the pict is taken. Will need some experimenting.
Here are a few picts of the optical detectors:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/aeCsxEer66u9AQ3c8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pUURJ68GP3atmmy78
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on February 24, 2019, 04:38 AM:
 
Excellent work.
Interesting photo's too, thanks Stan.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 24, 2019, 08:25 AM:
 
Thanks again Mike. Got the motor control working with RPI. Used the motor shield. Two issues. The shield is only 600mA and the motor is 1.5A. The second issue is noise due to the pulsed control. Ordered a 3A sine wave controller (Toshiba). Should be much quieter. Here a short video of the test:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8qoCqvqnFuuc3SCx6
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on February 24, 2019, 03:20 PM:
 
That video is quite something.
How I wish I had your knowledge and experience.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 24, 2019, 06:47 PM:
 
Actually the motor part is not very hard Mike. Can share the instructions and the parts list. If this works out I will keep it open source. I have three versions of the machine in my mind:
1. Simple version. RPI intercepting the optical trigger signal and running its own camera:
https://www.robotshop.com/eu/en/arducam-noir-8-mp-sony-imx219-camera-module-m12-lens-ls1820.html
12mm lens:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1409672-REG/marshall_electronics_cv4712_0_3mp_12mm_f_1_8_m12_3mp.html
The camera could reuse the existing camera mount bracket with an adapter board.
Control the takeup motor. Need some advice here. At what point from trigger to engage it and when to disengage it.
I will have this version very soon (have to receive the cam first)
2. Same as 1 but with the gopro. Gopro triggered by RPI in time lapse mode.
3. Same as 2 but with the stepper control.

Any other ideas?
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on February 25, 2019, 09:49 AM:
 
any other ideas?
Oh yes, I have an idea that I will be pulling my wolverine apart when you get this sorted, sounds just what we all need for our wolverines, to finally get a half decent result.

excellent work Stan, thanks as always, this is just what is called for.

I am unable to offer any useful technical input but I really enjoy the work you are doing here.
 
Posted by Bill McCormick (Member # 6877) on February 25, 2019, 10:45 AM:
 
Hi,I'm new here and am curious to see if there is a way to capture somewhere from the camera directly to an output before the wolverine compresses the video. I might be way off base on this as I am not an elecronics person other than basic soldering etc.
I really have not had to many problems with extreme jitter,or
stuck film with my unit and I would guess I have done about 60,000 ft of film with it.

The problem like everyone else has is the MP4 compression.
 
Posted by Bill McCormick (Member # 6877) on February 25, 2019, 10:46 AM:
 
Could a moderator please delete this as it was a double post.
Thank You

[ February 25, 2019, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Bill McCormick ]
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on February 25, 2019, 10:50 PM:
 
Some more testing tonight:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5RG7JD2xTRHugwtt6
Nothing special. The screen shows the motor pulses and the sync pulse when the claw triggers the optical detector. Looks like the motor does not stop at all. It keeps going and the camera system relies on the sync pulse to start the time lapse. With the takeup running all the time no wonder that we have jitter. Possibly tap into the sync signal and use it to turn on the takeup motor after the picture is taken. Keep it on for a while to allow for the claw to move the film all the way to the right and then turn it off again. Will need some experimenting.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on March 02, 2019, 09:30 PM:
 
Received the ribcage gopro mod kit and wow, this is some pretty serious micro surgery.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LYsM4AHTVQyy4TyN7
I did pretty good with it but became a bit impatient and tired in the end and damaged one of the sensor flex connectors. Should have left it for the next day.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ksPhTbgczp7bpqBZA
Sent an email to back-bone support to see if they would send me a new flex. Tried to repair it under the microscope and will check it tomorrow. It might work.
Checked the new stepper driver and ran it in half step mode.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0191BM6RI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The heatsink gets pretty hot if it is run continuously. The noise is lower than in full step but still annoying. Ordered a Toshiba microstepper (3A) and I think this one should do the trick.
https://www.robotshop.com/en/velleman-tb6560-3a-stepper-motor-driver.html
The noise is not that bad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DP-RXqHfh8

The Wolverine stepper has 200 steps for 360 degree turn of motor shaft or 50 steps for one full cycle of the film claw (1:4 gear ratio). So if you want to do 1 sec time lapse you would have to run 50 steps per second or 50 * 8 (1/8 microsteps) or 50*16 (1/16 microsteps).
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on March 03, 2019, 03:43 AM:
 
You have been busy...

Once again the research you are doing is really quite something.
Way over my head but again, thank you for the pictures and the time it takes. I love seeing this come together.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on March 03, 2019, 04:50 PM:
 
Thanks Mike. It is a slow progress but these things take time. Will get there eventually.
 
Posted by Jim Elder (Member # 6780) on March 06, 2019, 09:51 AM:
 
Here's a summary of my experience with a Wolverine 8mm scanner purchased in Dec 2018 from B&H, with some tips on how to use the scanner (not included in the brief manual):

Using this scanner eventually gave me better results than
using a video camera to recording an 8mm projection, but I had to work with Wolverine to overcome some shortcomings; this device needs more product development.

The scanner is very sensitive to the write speed of the SD card used. If the SD card’s write speed is not fast enough, the recorded MP4 will likely have periods of what looks like frame jitter and ‘rolling shutter’ effects, caused by the scanner getting behind while waiting for writes to complete (meanwhile, the film advances and it is late taking the photo of a frame, or taking it while the film is moving).

The manual doesn’t talk about this critical dependency, but I eventually learned of it from Wolverine support people. Given the importance of the SD card performance, I believe Wolverine should include a suitable card with the device (but probably doesn’t to keep the price down).

I was able to make the scanner work (barely) using a SanDisk Extreme 32GB SD card rated at Class 10, U3, V30, A1 (many hi-speed cards are larger than 32GB, but 32GB is the maximum accepted by the scanner).

In addition, the card MUST be formatted by the scanner, and one must not delete files from the SD card (just read them), using only format to clear the card. Otherwise recordings will likely have periods of jitter.

It would seem much better if the scanner were to simply run slower, so that it would work with any SD card and never introduce jitter. I would prefer quality over scanning speed.

The scanner seems to do some ‘white balancing’, which sometimes causes colour casts. Unfortunately there is no way to control that.

The tension provided by the take-up reel may also to be a factor. I had best results when using the take-up reel provided with the unit. The (plastic?) clutch on the take-up reel was a source of occasional squeaking sounds, suggesting wear. Wolverine warranties it for 200 scan counts or one year (in USA only). It took me about 70 scan counts to scan about two-dozen 5-inch reels.

To handle a 7-inch reel, I mounted it on a pencil to the left of the scanner and scanned it in two halves.

I found that the frame position within 8mm films shifts. Rather than trying to track that with the scanner (using zoom and frame adjustments), I recommend zooming out a bit such that the field of view always encompasses frames, including wandering. This means you’ll capture frame borders (and even slivers of adjacent frames) but I found that to be acceptable, and if not, more easily handled using post-processing software on a computer.

I believe the scanner’s resolution of 960x720 pixels is more than sufficient to capture the detail in a 8mm frame. I tested this by looking at the spatial frequencies in a recording, using an FFT analysis (ImageJ). Even with a slight zoom, I was satisfied with the resolution provided by this scanner. (Higher resolution and ‘empty magnification’ would just make the output file larger, for no benefit.)

Once a successful process was obtained, scanning went fairly smoothly. The scanner chugs along at 2 frames per second. It’s best to be nearby when it is scanning, so that you’ll notice (usually by a change in sound) if it jams on a splice or whatever.

The device can rewind, but I used an 8mm projector to rewind, which is faster and saves wear on the possibly fragile scanner.

I used the scanner’s USB interface to read MP4 from the SD card (taking care not to delete any files; see above), and processed the files using software on a computer, eg., VirtualDub, Handbrake, After Effects, VLC. I experimented with AviSynth for dust removal and stabilization. Inexplicably, the frame rate setting on the scanner’s MP4 files is set to 30 fps, even though 8mm/Super8 is usually 16 or 18 fps; the file setting can be changed later using computer software.

Wolverine includes a brush to clean dust from the sensor, but I found it ineffective. It is much better to use a can of compressed air, which can blow dust out of the light-well.

Apparently the scanner is made by Winait in Shenzhen. Wolverine is the US distributor; other companies distribute the same product in other regions. The core of the product is apparently a dashcam, which could explain some of the peculiarities described above. It appears that Winait makes gradual improvements; the model I had, purchased in Dec 2018, had a motor-driven take-up wheel.

In summary, I was tempted to return the scanner as unacceptable, but decided that after overcoming problems the scan quality was ‘good enough’. Now I’ve got digital versions of the movies. As film degradation wasn’t as severe as I expected, perhaps in the distant future, if technology is even better, I’ll scan them again. I have a similar thought regarding the digital versions; I think I’ll wait for better, easier to use image processing/restoration software. Meanwhile, I kind of like the 8mm-projection look of visible frame boundaries, dust, and handheld instability.

My thanks to posters in this forum; many posts were quite helpful.

Wolverine, if you're lurking, thanks for your help too, and for trying to serve the low-cost market segment.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on March 08, 2019, 11:54 AM:
 
I am still going ahead with my mod. If nothing else, it is fun. Ran into a few snags. My gopro is still not up and running. Discovered a ripped sensor flex - ouch.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6u7fBToA4oswVE2v8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZahFa1jWqC9E6DCeA
Will try to fix it in the lab today. If not will order a new sensor. Not that expensive at $29.
Got a new motor driver with Toshiba chip. Capable of 256 micro steps. Should be pretty quiet.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mXZtsSNsakK7rGNJ7
Looking forward to trying the new camera setup and getting a few sample videos. Probably in a few weeks.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on March 08, 2019, 11:55 AM:
 
I am still going ahead with my mod. If nothing else, it is fun. Ran into a few snags. My gopro is still not up and running. Discovered a ripped sensor flex - ouch.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6u7fBToA4oswVE2v8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZahFa1jWqC9E6DCeA
Will try to fix it in the lab today. If not will order a new sensor. Not that expensive at $29.
Got a new motor driver with Toshiba chip. Capable of 256 micro steps. Should be pretty quiet.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mXZtsSNsakK7rGNJ7
Looking forward to trying the new camera setup and getting a few sample videos. Probably in a few weeks.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on March 08, 2019, 12:51 PM:
 
Sorry to hear about the ripped cable.
Lets hope some crafty soldering will bail you out.

Looking forward to see what you do with the stepper motor in time.

Still very much looking forward to see what you come up with
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on March 10, 2019, 11:10 AM:
 
Could not fix the flex (shaky hands). Ordered a new one. The new motor controller works pretty good but the ST instructions were wrong. Took me a few hours to figure it out.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/idSUsp6gRYvNtwVv7
I am running the motor at 1/4 turn per second (1 frame per second).
This is the controller spec:
https://www.st.com/resource/en/user_manual/dm00441590.pdf
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on March 11, 2019, 09:55 AM:
 
Need an ALARM SYSTEM to let me know when the machine is hung up on a bad splice. I think this may be a universal problem with all Wolverine users --- I'm away from the machine while it's running and it's stopped because of a bad splice. When I return and happen to notice it, I pull the film past the splice and it resumes. I then pay careful attention when editing to remove those frozen frames.

Needed --- a way of setting off a loud bell or whistle when a bad splice freezes a frame. I'm hard of hearing so currently need visual contact to realize it's stopped. Would love something which set off a loud noise or lit a flashing light. Anyone know of such a signal device or how to make one???
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on March 11, 2019, 11:38 AM:
 
There is no way I would walk away from a film being scanned.
EVER
I watch every frame go past, with it connected to a 20" tv so I can keep an eye on the framing, while it sits on the side, or stop it to go and do something more pressing......
#justsaying [Smile]
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on March 11, 2019, 12:22 PM:
 
Wish I had the time, Mike, and interesting film subject matter to do that, however as the sole caregiver of my wife with stroke debilitation, there are many times when I have tons of film to process and don't have the ability to watch every frame to say nothing of the patience to watch another set of 2 year-olds splashing around in the bathtub.
So the question is still out there ---

Looking for a loud or flashy signal system to alert me that the film has hit a nasty splice. Has anyone done this? Is there a commercial setup which can be adapted? Any thoughts about building something?

Many thanks --- this is one of the most useful forums I've run across.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on March 11, 2019, 09:29 PM:
 
Hi Alan.Yes it is possible to make an alarm system. One of the wires that comes out of the transport mechanism is the claw detect. The wire is connected to the controller and used as a time lapse trigger. You can make a small intercept board with the trigger connected to it and then bridged back to the controller. The new board then can have a small alarm circuit on it that senses the loss of pulses. If you are not technically savvy then I suggest wait for the mod that I am coming with using the RPI. I can implement the alarm code in the RPI. It is a good idea to have that in addition to the camera control code.
It may be possible to have something even simpler, possibly a small mirror on the takeup reel and use the IR sensor with arduino:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuX_ZGIRCzo
The TCRT5000 can be mounted on the top of Wolverine close to the takeup reel and sends the pulses to the arduino board every time the mirror passes by it. The arduino can count the pulse rate. If the rate drops below a certain threshold an alarm can be triggered. Hope this helps.
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on March 11, 2019, 10:37 PM:
 
Many thanks, Stan,
When I posed the question I sort of figured I'd hear from you.

I'm understanding what you're suggesting but not savvy enough to construct it --- will wait to see your results.

The take-up reel option is out for me since to reduce jiggling I just let everything run into a large deep carton that my flat screen tv came in --- perfect for letting the film go back & forth without tangling. I rewind with one of the cranks from an old defunct editor. Not pulling the film has made a noticeable difference - no longer have jiggles.

However wondering which wire it is that trips the claw detect and what electrical signal passes thru it. Might a less elegant solution be as simple as tapping a connection off it to a relay to power a buzzer or other signal?
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on March 12, 2019, 08:45 AM:
 
The signal comes from an opto-detector. It uses a solid state switch and it may be capable of driving a relay. But to be safe I would use a relay driver such as:
https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Sparkfun%20PDFs/BOB-09118_Web.pdf
You will also need the connectors. Can send you the part numbers. Alternatively, could use the cell phone for motion sense. I can do a small app for you based on:
https://github.com/jjoe64/android-motion-detection
The additional code is needed for lack of motion sense.
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on March 13, 2019, 10:38 AM:
 
Thanks Stan, am off on a large order so unfortunately no time right now to work on an alarm signal, however will come back to it later.

One more item on my Wish List for the Wolverine would be a way of adjusting the exposure setting while running. That way, on a large reel, when it shifts from an underexposed scene to a normal or overexposed scene, I could make the adjustment on the fly.
 
Posted by Kev Morrison (Member # 6338) on March 13, 2019, 03:31 PM:
 
Alan,

I think the solution that Stan has come up with is what you need, but as a workaround for the time being:

I recently converted 2400ft of Super 8 using a Wolverine Pro. After observing the time it took to process a 50ft reel, I used a timer to alert me when a film splice was imminent. If the film appeared to slow, I could 'nudge' it through.

Since I did very little editing to my film, the timer technique worked pretty well since to processing time per reel stayed mostly the same. I did note that as the take up reel filled (I used 400ft reels), of course, the tendency for it to slow and pause has a splice moved through the gate noticeably increased.

Just a thought!
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on March 14, 2019, 08:04 AM:
 
On a second thought the claw detect signal will not work because the claw never stops even when the firm is not advancing. My bad. But the motion sense should work. Compiled the app framework last night and it ran on my phone. Now have to do the necessary mods. The app runs on android phones only.
Once I get the camera working it should be possible to detect the frame update and signal an alarm if there are none after a timeout.
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on March 14, 2019, 08:45 AM:
 
Will be a great use for my old LG android which is sitting here useless for phone, but still picks up internet --- FAN-TASTIC !!!
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on March 19, 2019, 11:14 PM:
 
Got the app working. Here is the demo. Every time I wave my hand in front of the phone the phone vibrates and displays the time in seconds from the last motion detect. If there is no motion for 40 seconds the alarm sounds.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JCzppC_s4m5FOfXLcuacMprlIVtV-11U/view?usp=sharing
The app is based on an existing motion detect app done by a German speaking developer. I left that part as is but had to add the lack of motion detect.
The settings are hard coded for now but I plan to add the settings menu that will have sensitivity values. The default is pretty sensitive and will trip on a slightest motion in the scene.
The apk is available here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VLHhCvSKQvlj9sp5EDS1D4U5nfvxSUPA/view?usp=sharing

You will have to change the phone security to allow unknown app installation and also open up app manager and then allow the app to access the camera. Can provide more detailed instructions if needed.

The app is safe and I will be posting the source as well.
Have fun.
 
Posted by Kevin R Sexton (Member # 6774) on March 21, 2019, 12:57 AM:
 
on the stepper motor, maybe something else would be a better solution?
They are using a stepper motor and a clutch to just provide some limited tension on the take up reel, to keep the film rolled up. The advancing of the film is fully done by the claw advance.
In fact, if you rewind on the wolverine, following the instructions, the completely loose supply side, going under the first roller(though they are not rollers, don't turn) and directly to the takeup, the tension is so low, a reel may overflow.

My thinking is possibly a better motor and better clutch system might help with take-up related problems people are reporting. A geared down motor and a clutch with more precise tension and longer life?

If writing at 2 frames per second is hitting the limit on SD cards, that's something to consider with any rebuilds/mods. Other devices are going to have to deal with the same write speeds, if you are capturing a better, higher resolution or less compressed image, things might have to be slowed down considerably, even with a better card.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on March 21, 2019, 12:40 PM:
 
Good thoughts Kevin. Although I am trying to do a full custom version of Wolverine I still want to use the takeup motor but control it from my own board. And that gives me a headache just thinking of how to solve it. I think in my version I will turn it on the off at strategic times. They run it continuous and the picture is taken while the claw is still pulling the film. I confirmed that by taking the video of the claw with their camera (camera loose).
https://photos.app.goo.gl/t4GUWwtVpwh2hbVKA
That can cause a jitter problem because if the takeup tension during the film advance overtakes the claw the film will jitter towards the other side of the hole.
I will try to turn off the takeup motor during film advance and then turn it back on or similar solution. And yes the frame rate will be slower. Can't win them all.
BTW - hit another snag with my gopro mod. Managed to damage another flex cable. This is the buttons flex and it is very delicate. Ifixit don't have any left. Thinking of using the back connector as a workaround. My RPI cam order from China is still in transit somewhere. Its been 3 weeks.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iXwJjWPfJuVwakc36
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on March 21, 2019, 08:10 PM:
 
If still interested Alan, here is the new version of frame jam detect. It uses the default ringtone and the back camera. The phone starts ringing when the film jams. To stop it you have to close the app. Pretty primitive for now.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QOL1i4XoGB4hISMYn7WXmL9XwLBLCecf/view?usp=sharing
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on March 23, 2019, 09:45 PM:
 
I am not at all familiar with how to add an app which isn't already listed in the play store. Any help in doing that would be appreciated. Looked over settings, but didn't see anything which looked like a way of adding private apps.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on March 23, 2019, 10:13 PM:
 
This should work:
Connect your phone to the WiFi router in your place. They in the phone browser go to the link that I posted.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QOL1i4XoGB4hISMYn7WXmL9XwLBLCecf/view?usp=sharing
The phone should prompt you if you wanted to install the app. Say yes to that. You may also get the warning that this is an unknown app or similar warning and it may instruct you how to enable installation of unknown apps.
Generally there is a setting for unknown apps installation.
Settings -> Application -> Unknown sources (Allow installation of non-Market applications).
Let me know if you manage to install it because once it runs you may have to do a few more minor setting changes.
GOPRO update. Not dead yet. Working on the back connector control. That way I can control the cam fully from my RPI. Got the connector but need a smaller soldering iron tip. Bought a set of 5. Should do the trick.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on March 31, 2019, 10:59 PM:
 
Finally got the RASPI cam. Tried it with the Wolverine using the Wolverine lens mounted on the RASPI cam:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZQ2NAhTtNff53veR6
This was just a quick test so no fancy hardware for now. Just wanted to see what the frame grab looks like. The Wolverine original frame grabbed from the mp4 file looks sharper and brighter but looks like too much of sharpening applied (maybe my settings). The RASPI image looks blurry. I tried adjusting the focus but this was the best I could get. The edges are out of the focus because I do not have a solid lens mount yet.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/t5YVvaHAz8GaHGCDA
RASPI is on the right.

I also noticed that they must be doubling up the frame digitally. With the similar optics setup (my sensor is actually smaller) I get only half of their frame size after cropping.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on April 01, 2019, 11:28 PM:
 
Did some work on the lens mount. Now it is nice and parallel to the film. The reused the Wolverine lens.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zPaHtoEBP9rznFJp8
Applied unsharp mask to the captured image and I believe I got it to match the Wolverine pretty close. Surprisingly the Wolverine image shows very little compression. I say this because my image has no compression at all. It is a BMP cam capture. But there is lots of sharpening applied and that is not good. Possibly the scene details are such that the compression artifacts are not visible but you be the judge. The red tinge in my image is from the RPI led - will fix that. Also considering a new lens that would give me the full HD size frame. Wolverine lens is 720 x 480 and they resize it and then sharpen it. Pretty sure of that. Can provide more detail if interested.
 
Posted by James Wilson (Member # 4620) on April 07, 2019, 07:05 AM:
 
Hi,
can anyone give me any details on the Somicon. Have they improved from the early versions. Are they more reliable, is the coding any better, are they direct drive. Just asking this because I`m now thinking of getting one, please help if you can.
Many Thanks,
James.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on April 07, 2019, 11:38 PM:
 
Finally got the camera and the stepper working together. The python control code advances the frame and then takes the picture and stores it and then back to stepper...
Here is a short clip generated from the images:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5cG4qCWCRVQnQDbk8
 
Posted by Alan Taplow (Member # 4702) on April 19, 2019, 11:30 AM:
 
Since Wolverine misses the boat with regard to a built-in capability to output a file at normal 8mm speeds and at an acceptable mp4 quality, a certain amount of post-capture work is required to get acceptable movies. I developed a work flow and am wondering whether others are doing something simpler or better than my workflow.
I've been:
1-Setting up 4 folders on my C:\ drive: Raw, Muxed, Enhanced, and Final.
2-copying files from the sd card to the Raw folder on C:\drive.
3-Using MyMP4Box, de-mux each raw file, and then muxing it at either 16 or 18 fps. Save results in Muxed folder.
4- Using the enhancing part of AnyMP4, enhance to smooth out the
Wolverine visual noise and get rid of inherent speckling. Save the results in the Enhanced folder.
5. Do an edit in NCH VideoPad. Here is where I run through to eliminate the sections hung up on the Wolverine as a result of bad splices, make any other needed crops, edits, whatever, and save the results in the Final Folder.

I imagine that each of us doing a reasonable number of Wolverine transfers has developed a work flow routine. Perhaps this fits in this Wolverine thread, or perhaps it could be a separate thread --- up to the moderators. Anyway it's an important part of using this good, but incomplete Wolverine machine if a quality output is required.
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on April 20, 2019, 08:58 AM:
 
Stan that is quite simply amazing!
well done. Look how rock steady the image is too, and I really like the overscan. brilliant.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on April 20, 2019, 09:57 AM:
 
Thank you Mike. I am pretty happy with the results as well. I even did not tweak the cam settings at all. I am currently on a hiatus for a few weeks visiting my aunt but when I get back plan to do the following:
- Finalize the design. Will share the results here. Things like lens selection and different settings.
- put together a mod kit for Wolverine with all instructions and BOM and code source for the DIY guys. This will be totally free.
- Offer a complete kit with instructions for people with less hw and sw experience. Obviously will have to charge for this but not planning to make money doing this 😀 At least recover my cost.
 
Posted by Kev Morrison (Member # 6338) on April 20, 2019, 10:03 AM:
 
"- Offer a complete kit with instructions for people with less hw and sw experience. Obviously will have to charge for this but not planning to make money doing this 😀 At least recover my cost".

Stan, sounds perfectly fair to me! You've put the time & effort into it, at least cover your costs.

Gee - wonder if the Wolverine folks monitor this forum.... [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on April 20, 2019, 11:45 AM:
 
Stan I am most certainly up for doing some mods on my wolverine now I have stopped doing my 'super 8 rescue'

Take your time, real life places demands on us which means we have to stop the fun bits we enjoy messing about with.

I am currently wearing my 'matron hat' for a very poorly partner.

No time do anything other than dispense meds, cook, and do domestic chores for the last two weeks.

I would certainly use your mods to re scan my own footage again.

I would be very happy to help you recover any costs to mod my wolverine.

Kev it is quite likely because I sent an angry email to Wolverine during my early motor failures and sent a link to this forum so they could see I was not the only person with issues.

Wolverine data also watch my you tube channel and 'dislike' my Wolverine failure videos [Eek!] [Smile] [Smile]
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on April 20, 2019, 07:15 PM:
 
Looks like my posts got out of sync... not a big deal. Anyways as Mike says the real life takes precedence. My aunt is 95 and I am her only relative.
I will get the PCB done that will contain the interface circuitry and it will completely replace the Wolverine controller. The only thing reused from the controller is the lens. I plan to have an alternative lens that has more optical magnification but that is optional. May not be needed. I will use this forum to post the results with different lenses and settings and will let you be the judge. The bottom line is that this project will be fully open source. You will be in full control. That is the best way in my opinion to get something that really works. As I said I will offer fully assembled kit fully programmed for those that want to go that way.
 
Posted by Kev Morrison (Member # 6338) on April 21, 2019, 08:39 PM:
 
Kev it is quite likely because I sent an angry email to Wolverine during my early motor failures and sent a link to this forum so they could see I was not the only person with issues.

Wolverine data also watch my you tube channel and 'dislike' my Wolverine failure videos [Eek!] [Smile] [Smile]

Mike.... why is it that I'm not surprised? [Confused]

When Wolverine stops using it's customer base for beta testing it's equipment, well, then they won't have anything to 'dislike'!
 
Posted by Richard Thomas (Member # 6962) on May 03, 2019, 08:53 AM:
 
Hi all-I'm a new poster to this forum, though I have been following it for a while. I had some trouble with the Wolverine Unit I bought in January 2017, so this week I took delivery of a new until. Based on my reading here, I thought everyone might be interested to know there have been changes to the film path. There are now three tabs instead of two, spaced out across the film path. The new manual says its to cut down on jitter. Ran a few films and it seemed to help.
 -
 -
 
Posted by Bill Sherren (Member # 6743) on May 03, 2019, 11:45 AM:
 
My Wolverine had the three tabs and was totally jittery and unstable! With film sprocket damage as well. So guess their quality control is rubbish and you either strike lucky or not!
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on May 13, 2019, 07:58 PM:
 
My Wolverine has 3 tabs as well and has a jitter issue with the stock setup.
Started working on the new controller. Have some issues with the M12 lens mount. Hard to get the right size so ordered a bunch of them all different sizes from M12lenses. Also ordered a new lens from bh photo. It is a 12mm lens and according to my calculations it should give a better optical resolution but the proof is in the pudding - right. Will see how this new combination works out.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on May 15, 2019, 04:58 AM:
 
Hello Stan,
congratulations for your work this will help a lot of people like me. I am impatient and I will be very interested in your module. for the lens mount, I do not know if the hole spacing is 18mm or 20mm. for the camera lens I found a 12mm macro scorpion that seems very good. We will end up making this machine a good telecine.

M12 lens support : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/M12-Lens-Mount-ABS-Lens-Mount-Camera-Lens-Mount-the-ABS-Lens-Holder/32567879004.html
M12 macro lens :http://www.scorpionvision.co.uk/Catalog/Machine-Vision-Lens/m12-lenses/near-field-far-field-m12-lenses/s-mount-12mm-f2-8-macro-lens
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on May 15, 2019, 04:59 AM:
 
Hello Stan,
congratulations for your work this will help a lot of people like me. I am impatient and I will be very interested in your module. for the lens mount, I do not know if the hole spacing is 18mm or 20mm. for the camera lens I found a 12mm macro scorpion that seems very good. We will end up making this machine a good telecine.

M12 lens support : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/M12-Lens-Mount-ABS-Lens-Moun t-Camera-Lens-Mount-the-ABS-Lens-Holder/32567879004.html
M12 macro lens :http://www.scorpionvision.co.uk/Catalog/Machine-Vision-Lens/m12-lenses/near-field-far-field-m12-lenses/s-mount-12mm-f2-8-macro-lens
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on May 19, 2019, 09:47 PM:
 
Hi Kamel,
Thanks for researching the lens alternatives.
I bought several M12 holders and checking them now.
http://www.m12lenses.com/M12-Lens-Holders-s/61.htm
PT-LH008P works good with the Wolverine lens and RASPI cam
but the optical magnification is not enough as you can see from my previous posts. It covers only 50% of the HD image. Not sure if 12mm is too much. Did a spreadsheet and it says 12mm should be OK but will have to test it since I have several lenses here.
The camera mount is a bit tricky. It requires standoffs. Should have something tomorrow and will send an update.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on May 20, 2019, 09:02 AM:
 
Thank you for sharing. I am not as competent as you but I look forward to your advancement. I would like for the moment to replace the original lens support to put another lens of better quality. I will print the support in 3D. I have to do tests too, I have f8, f12, f16 ... The focus distance is very important. I can not measure it.
Otherwise we can calculate the lens on the sunex web site: http://www.optics-online.com/register.asp
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on May 20, 2019, 10:02 PM:
 
Managed to fix the camera mount:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/n81SPStUWHdfCiUK6
Used the 8mm lens with the new holder and the optical magnification is still not enough:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EjYGqaqFxSXsRw959
12mm lens should be pretty close. Here is my calculation:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-hXTxF7eOxKUawaIUkLS4dvfP0YH8TbK/view?usp=sharing
I tried your link Kamel but it seems to be limited to 8mm FL and lower.
The stock Wolverine lens seems to be around 4 - 6 mm. Will measure it by focusing to infinity and then measuring the distance from the lens to the sensor.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on May 21, 2019, 11:11 AM:
 
ndeed, the calculation of optics is not simple. for now I would just replace the stock optics to improve the quality. the sensor is a 3.53 MP cmos. 2304x1536. But the recovered image is in 1440x1080.
the cmos is a 1/3 '' and measures 4.8mmx3.6mm.
the useful dimensions of the cmos of stock are 2.99mmx2.53mm.
The distance from the cmos to the film plane is about 45mm. the format super8 is 5.79mmx4.01mm. a focal lens of f10 would be good but it is difficult to find in M12. or play with long rings ... To test.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on May 21, 2019, 07:22 PM:
 
Looks like a pretty good plan. One issue that you may have is the fixed distance from the film to the sensor. A 12mm lens will focus at around 18mm (focuses at 12mm for infinity). The lens that you are planning to get has minimum focusing distance at 28mm according to the spec. So, 28mm + 18mm is 46mm which is too close for comfort. I plan to use 12mm but in my case I can change the sensor to film distance.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on May 22, 2019, 07:41 AM:
 
Yes you are right. I wanted to simplify my mod for the moment. but I would like, as you, disassemble all and slow down the system to avoid jigs and skipping pictures (great disease of these scanners units). Of course, I would also like to record the frames one by one to maintain the maximum quality ... I do not know how to disassemble the camera board support to become independent of their system ?... that's why I'm very interested in your work and the kit you are preparing. Have you made a disassembly guide ? I need help. sorry for my english.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on May 22, 2019, 01:02 PM:
 
Hi Kamel,
The Wolverine camera and the controller are all on one board and there is no way of separating the camera. That is why I removed the camera/controller/display unit and slowly building my own. I still reuse the transport mechanism with the stepper and the LEDs and the main mechanical assembly including the housing and the mounting brackets.
I do not have the instructions yet because it is still work in progress but it is in the plan.
The main issues that I have are:
- Select proper IR filter to remove pinkish tinge in the image
- Try 12mm lens (on order)
- Drive LEDs from 3.3V source on RPI
- Detect sync pulses from the transport in RPI
- 12V relay for the takeup motor
- Update sw to sense the sync and drive the stepper

The main issue now is the pink color in the image - see:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2nRmSDpbsds7hXFo6

Found the root cause:
https://www.ccdcmoslens.com/pink-glow-caused-difference-lens-cra-sensor-cra/
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=196297

Will try the correction mentioned in the links above. This could limit the amount of optical magnification. Alternatively go with a different cam.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on May 26, 2019, 10:05 PM:
 
Tried the 12mm lens.
As I mentioned before the sensor to film distance is large and the lens will not work with the stock Wolverine. See my rig:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/buEnuFdfz4qj6tQYA
Here is a test capture:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/txnZBY1hdMeJrjuG7
The optical magnification is significantly larger than with the stock lens bit there is some blurring around the edges cause by wider FOV. Possibly better lens might have better fringe focus. Another issue is pink glow as I already mentioned. I think I can fix that.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on May 27, 2019, 03:56 AM:
 
your progress is very promising and encouraging. I did not go much further. I am doing curved pulleys for the training of the film to print in 3D to improve the scrolling of the film. I do not dare to disassemble everything yet but it will come when you propose your modification kit.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on May 27, 2019, 02:30 PM:
 
The Scorpionvision 12mm macro lens that you suggested Kamel seems to be better suited for these close distances and may have better focus than the Marshall lens that I am using. I will get one and compare. If you happen to have 8mm you can try it with the stock setup but I don't think you will see much difference because Wolverine are doing image doubling and sharpening and then on top of that jpeg compression so the details where you could notice the difference are no longer there (but we want to see those details). Additionally, due to low optical magnification and larger older sensor they use only the center portion of the sensor so that a better lens will not help that much.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on May 27, 2019, 02:52 PM:
 
yes, I totally agree. with the scorpion M12mm macro lens, it is better to use a better quality sensor and become independent of their wolverine system. I had smpte hit test on a super 8 movie outside Wolverine unit, and the quality could be really better. the goal is to get the best of our movies.
save a series of compressed or uncompressed frames and then create the final movie after post production.Finally, that's what I would like to get
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on May 27, 2019, 09:29 PM:
 
The Scorpionvision 12mm macro lens that you suggested Kamel seems to be better suited for these close distances and may have better focus than the Marshall lens that I am using. I will get one and compare. If you happen to have 8mm you can try it with the stock setup but I don't think you will see much difference because Wolverine are doing image doubling and sharpening and then on top of that jpeg compression so the details where you could notice the difference are no longer there (but we want to see those details). Additionally, due to low optical magnification and larger older sensor they use only the center portion of the sensor so that a better lens will not help that much.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on May 29, 2019, 05:13 PM:
 
My telecine of dreams and that could have been possible. the wolverine unit with an independent camera. opportunity to change it for a better one HDMI video output for a high quality monitoring on a larger screen.
mp4 or frame-by-frame recording, choice of compression.
a scroll of the film by capstan to pass the films a little damaged.
We can always dream !... I would have paid more, Wolverine could have proposed this unit by naming it "pro" because my wolverine pro has only the name!...with our mods, I hop the dream this becomes reality...
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on May 29, 2019, 11:17 PM:
 
That is a nice dream Kamel [Smile] But I believe that it is definitely possible to have an independent camera that we control the way we want to. It is a slow progress but we will get there.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on May 30, 2019, 05:12 PM:
 
I recovered a camera imagingsource : camera with a M12mm optics lens and a low distortion 16mm of very good quality. I can print a 3D support for the camera board. but I do not know how to slow down the wolverine scrolling and I also need the 3,3/5v signal at each frameto trigger the camera. the software is freely downloadable and allows the recording of videos or image by image. It may be a good track.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on May 30, 2019, 05:17 PM:
 
I recovered a camera imagingsource : camera with a M12mm optics lens and a low distortion 16mm of very good quality. I can print a 3D support for the camera board. but I do not know how to slow down the wolverine scrolling and I also need the 3,3/5v signal at each frame to trigger the camera. the software is freely downloadable and allows the recording of videos or frame by image (ICCapture). It may be a good way. https://www.theimagingsource.com/products/board-cameras/usb-2.0-color/dfm72buc02ml/
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on May 30, 2019, 09:43 PM:
 
That sounds exciting Kamel. Can you post the pics. How close were you to the object? Any pink glow?
The trigger signal is available from the Wolverine.
It is a 3.3 V pulse:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jasjZTjiDkdrzV1k6
Will post the connector pinouts. I suggest using the motor shield. Then you don't depend on Wolverine controller at all and can set any speed you want.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on May 31, 2019, 08:29 AM:
 
for the moment, I did not yet to disassemble the Wolverine. I do not know how to do. I am waiting for your guide. I do my tests outside Wolverine. I'm 50mm distance from the image. The frames are really better. no pink tone. but the imagingsource camera board are little expensive. ICcapture software is very complete and is free but only works with imagingsource cameras.
first picture is wolverine capture, the second is imagingsource capture.  -

Capture with imaging source camera board with F16mm (distance 50mm)
 -

it is clear that wolverine accentuates the video by an electronic reinforcement and mp4 compression degrades much captured image.

I think that we can do better because the lighting of my 2nd images is not uniform. and the flatness is not good. more blurred on the left.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on May 31, 2019, 11:00 PM:
 
Nice work Kamel. The images that you posted clearly show the difference. I will work on disassembly instructions this weekend so that you can try the lens with the actual unit. BTW - where did you get the test clip. They are pretty expensive.
My update.
Reworked the camera mount and made sure that all sides are properly aligned:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9pfQBZ2uGojDu5RcA
Also rotated the board so that now the image does not require any rotation. This gives a more uniform focus.
Added an IR filer and here is the test picture:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YauGq3Qst5oh5kcu6
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on May 31, 2019, 11:03 PM:
 
Nice work Kamel. The images that you posted clearly show the difference. I will work on disassembly instructions this weekend so that you can try the lens with the actual unit. BTW - where did you get the test clip. They are pretty expensive.
My update.
Reworked the camera mount and made sure that all sides are properly aligned:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9pfQBZ2uGojDu5RcA
Also rotated the board so that now the image does not require any rotation. This gives a more uniform focus.
Added an IR filer and here is the test picture:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YauGq3Qst5oh5kcu6
Ran shadowing compensation and this pretty much fixed the pink glow:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/paqSYbRAnFioKnSi6
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on June 01, 2019, 06:23 AM:
 
The test film :
test patterns are branded wittner SMTE super8 ordered in germany. they are very expensive, unfortunately. But it's more convenient to see the definition of the captured frames.

http://www.wittnercinetec.co m/epages/WittnerCinetec-Super8-16mm-Film.sf/en_GB/?ObjectID=628763&ViewAction=FacetedSearchProducts&SearchString=smpte

I can give you a small piece of 10cm / 15cm because I do not have a lot but it may be enough for testing. We can agree on the terms privately Tell me

[ June 01, 2019, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Kamel Ikhlef ]
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 01, 2019, 10:56 AM:
 
Yes I am interested Kamel.
BTW - when choosing the lens we should get higher F stop. Possibly even f/8.0. You get less light in but the depth of field is larger and this will ensure that the whole frame is in focus. The test picture I posted was taken with the 12mm Marshall lens:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1409672-REG/marshall_electronics_cv4712_0_3mp_12mm_f_1_8_m12_3mp.html
It has f/1.8 which is very wide and shallow depth of the field. That is why the edges are slightly out of focus.
Here is the test Wolverine shot (posting it again):
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XdUo2tAvgwnKhspT7
Imagingsource 12mm lenses are f/2.8 which is better than what I have but still pretty wide.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 01, 2019, 05:57 PM:
 
Here are the disassembly instructions. This is my first stab at it. Will need cleaning up.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1M3yqKHqYuxwxKJMxtIkyrWgPbcyXOBzR
 
Posted by Mike Spice (Member # 5957) on June 02, 2019, 05:11 AM:
 
Stan

Many thanks for your continued work, the PDF instructions are most generous of you.

Stripped mine down a few times, but for users who have never attempted to do this, to this level, the PDF is of great value.

Keep up the good work chaps!

[ June 02, 2019, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 02, 2019, 09:59 PM:
 
Thanks Mike,
We are getting closer to the ultimate goal of having fully custom Wolverne. Have several camera and lens alternatives and a few more coming up shortly.
The stepper controller that I used is pretty good and quiet. Looks pretty good so far.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on June 06, 2019, 04:23 AM:
 
can I slow the scrolling of the wolverine ex: 1 image every 2 seconds and get the signal to each frame to trigger another camera ? I would like use the original motors and led. Just replace the camera with trigger. I do not know how to recover the signal at each frame stop.
I'm not an electrician but I want to tinker with my wolverine to have the best quality.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 06, 2019, 08:47 PM:
 
The mod kit that I am working on uses the existing Wolverine stepper and the LED. If you want to put the stuff together fast for testing I suggest the following:
- Use the new camera that you bought and the new lens. Mount with the proto board and some standoffs or long screws.. similar to what I did.
- Get the stepper shield.
https://www.hackster.io/voske65/arduino-stspin820-stepper-driver-2ae2d4
or
https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/s/stmicroelectronics/stspin-motor-drivers-and-motor-driver-solutions
- Run the LED from the existing controller

Do not use the trigger for now. Just match the camera acquisition rate to the stepper rate. It will be a hit and miss but should work.

I am working on the interface board that will drive the existing LED and run the trigger interface. So that is coming up.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on June 07, 2019, 05:48 AM:
 
with your advice, I will wait a little for your advancement. I have a trigger input on the imaging source camera. it needs 3.3v or 5v at each frame stop and the software saves automatically to the hard drive. but I do not know or recover on the Wolverine the impulse to each frame.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 07, 2019, 07:59 AM:
 
The trigger signal is 3.3V and may be able to drive the camera directly. But you do not want to cut the connector off to get access to the signal. On my board I have the proper mating connector and then wires that come out that can be connected to the camera. Using Eagle PCB tool but the library does not have the JST part so creating my own...
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on June 08, 2019, 04:15 AM:
 
It is very easy on the source imaging camera to record the frames. the capture software exists and it is free. you just have to send an impulse at the moment of the frames stop. it would be necessary to divert the signal of Wolverine towards my new camera. but I do not know how to do it.
 -
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 08, 2019, 09:16 AM:
 
You can get one of these:
https://thesaberarmory.com/product/4-pin-micro-jst-connector-pair-male-and-female/
Not sure if it is 1mm spacing because I never used this particular one. They do not provide the specs.
If it works you plug in the sync cable (pics coming up) and you have the lose wires coming out. Will send you the pinout description and connection details shortly.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on June 08, 2019, 10:36 AM:
 
I already have a trigger connector for my imagingsource camera board. But, I do not know where to put it on the Wolverine board. you are more competent than me for that.I will order several connector of different sizes to test.Thank you very much for your help and your advice.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 08, 2019, 03:35 PM:
 
This is what you need to do.
Locate the trigger connector. Check the following picture:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LFUEeKjdT2GKVEx59
Unplug it.
Plug the disconnected connector into the new adapter cable. Like the one I mentioned in the previous post.
Wire up the interface as shown:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5m8jsykGVw8QNDzL9
You will need 3.3V supply.
Alternatively, if you have a male connector with wires for the receptacle on the Wolverine board, you just connect the blk to blk wire, yel to yel and grn to grn. Then connect the blk wires to you camera gnd and the yellow to the camera trigger. No external supply and components needed.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on June 08, 2019, 03:55 PM:
 
Ah! Thank you very much Stan. With your good advice, I will be able to advance in my tests.
I keep you informed of the continuation of my work
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 08, 2019, 09:09 PM:
 
Correction:
The JST connector info that I posted earlier is not correct. The Wolverine connectors are most likely Molex Picoblade. Very similar to JST 1.25mm connector but not compatible with them.
This should work:
[URL=https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-1-25mm-PicoBlade-4Pin-Male-to-Female-Housing-Connector-Extension-wire-JST-1-25mm/32814247145.html?spm=a2g0w.search0204.3.14.751f2dc6AJAIh3 &ws_a]https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-1-25mm-PicoBlade-4Pin-Male-to-Female-Housing-Connector-Extension-wire-JST-1-25mm/32814247145.html?spm=a2g0w.search0204.3.14.751f2dc6AJAIh 3&ws_a[/URL] b_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_10_10065_10130_10068_10890_10547_319_10546_317_10548_10545_10696_453_10084_454_10083_10618_10307_537_536_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchw eb201603_53,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=3cc7ede2-fc29-4df3-b642-724fd211cea2-2&algo_pvid=3cc7ede2-fc29-4df3-b642-724fd211cea2

Also available from digikey.com.

[ June 09, 2019, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: Stan Jelavic ]
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 10, 2019, 09:37 AM:
 
Tried a cheap lens from dlscorp:
https://dlscorp.com/shop/ls-12020-1-3-0-m12-mount-lens/?attribute_pa_ir-filter=yes-ir-filter
Actually not bad at all:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jTNQmSpojN5jHLNX9
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 10, 2019, 04:00 PM:
 
Here is the test shot with the clip that Kamel sent me:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1aCQXHwv735QZg7RA
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on June 11, 2019, 08:12 AM:
 
Hello Stan,
it is already much better than the result with the original optics of Wolverine. moreover, wolverine reinforce the sharpness video signal. You have to see with macro lenses, you can still gain in quality, what do you think. If in addition we do not compress any more before recording, it will be all the better.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 11, 2019, 08:43 AM:
 
Hi Kamel,
This was a cheap lens. I have a better lens on order:
https://www.oemcameras.com/lens-tbl-12-2c-5mp.htm
Will try that also. Will also do a test video with the new setup and original Wolverine setup. Most of us no not like Wolverine digital artifacts in the captured video and the new setup should fix that. That, and the takeup motor control. BTW - I am almost done with the interface board design.
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on June 12, 2019, 08:09 AM:
 
very impatient to see the rest of your work which is very inspiring.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 12, 2019, 09:23 PM:
 
Thanks Kamel,
Here is my first attempt at doing the schematic for the interface board. Working in the board mechanical now.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Kso39YDE_2g-rrsEjtLMh5yIh7zz3Nb_
and the BOM
https://drive.google.com/open?id=11N8s6HIyJXf_ewlIQzBoqw_f1w9ruF3j
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on June 13, 2019, 12:08 PM:
 
it's very good work, but I admit that there, it goes far beyond my skills!
I ordered some small jst molex 1.25 connectors that you recommended. I am waiting for them to continue my tests.
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 13, 2019, 11:30 PM:
 
Here is a little napkin sketch on how the trigger circuit works and why we need two resistors and a 3.3V supply. Hope it helps...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/byeMPUoq6uxpPBAq8
 
Posted by Kamel Ikhlef (Member # 6667) on June 14, 2019, 09:50 AM:
 
Great job Stan. For my part, I am creating new pulleys for Wolverine. The original ones are flat and scratch the movies. To improve the scrolling of the images I made them curved.
If some are interested, I will post on thingiverse and I will put links to STL files for those who want to print them in 3D.

 -

 -

The Links : https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3691019
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 15, 2019, 08:05 AM:
 
Cool design Kamel. Have you tested them?
 
Posted by Stan Jelavic (Member # 6822) on June 15, 2019, 12:47 PM:
 
My previous post:
Correction:
The JST connector info that I posted earlier is not correct. The Wolverine connectors are most likely Molex Picoblade. Very similar to JST 1.25mm connector but not compatible with them.

Update:
Just received a few picoblade 1.25mm connectors from Digikey and they fit perfectly Wolverine 4-pin and 2-pin connectors. JST are very close and visually look identical but DO NOT WORK. Picoblade are from Molex.
 


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