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Topic: 8mm show in the Airline Company

Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 30, 2005 04:01 PM

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I just found at Ebay http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZqQ5fsmom1 that he is selling airline prints with quite reasonable prices (on his "buy it now" option). This matter perhaps had been appeared in the old posts, but just to re-fresh my brain:

1. What stock did the Airline prints use? Any reddish...
2. When was the last time for the Airline Company using 8mm entertainment for their passangers? (Once Mike said that he had Lethal Weapon...so I guess more than the time of this film was released)
3. I was so young during that era so I didn't notice anything. But compare to nowadays shows on Airplane where 3 or 4 LCD projectors are used for different compartements, how was that time. One projector for the whole?
4. Now...my hunting instinct comes...do you think all B-747 or 767 were installed with this kind of entertainment? If it is so...probably my coutry's flag carriers is still keeping these stocks. Due to the reason that all people here tend to "hide" (or precisely "salvage") unused goods! [Wink]

[Wink]

Thanks

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Winbert

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted June 30, 2005 04:38 PM

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Winnbert, be very carreful of any airline prints. Most of them are or will turn red. Derek Simmons did an article on this very subject in a FFTC at my request some time ago and he warned at the end of the article that caution should be taken as many are or have lost there colour. Apart from that, (as i found out) many title including Crocodile Dundee, Lethal weapon and even the rare "the Bounty" which i have are all ex airline so are therefore edited for general viewing [Mad]

[Mad]

Some people dont mind this but i do. I like to see a film un-cut as the directors intended and not the nancy version someone else thinks i should see. C Dundee in particular was a family film anyway & and i couldnt believe the edits in the ex airline print i got. Pale rider (i understand) has whole scenes cut from it. What must be left of lethal weapon i cant imagine [Confused]

[Confused]

Anyway, be weary unless you dont mind a little red in the picture. [Wink]

[Wink]

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Mal Brake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 591
From: Neath, South Wales, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 30, 2005 05:51 PM

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Don't forget that these prints have optical soundtracks, not stripe.
Mal

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I'm gonna live forever or die trying

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

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From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 30, 2005 06:11 PM

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Tom, some are on low fade stock. My copies of Little Shop of Horrors, Zorro the Gay Blade and Return of the Pink Panther have really nice colour. Rank who did the printing tended to print these releases a little on the warm side for reasons best known to them. I did wonder if it was down to the lighting or screens used. Yes I have seen some prints which have been beetroot in colour but they were on SP stock.
Sound can be pretty good too.

Kev.

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Dan Lail
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From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 30, 2005 06:32 PM

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Kev's right, I have copy of Maxie(excellent film by the way)and the stock is low-fade, but printed just a tad on the warm side. The optical sound has some noise when played on the ST-1200, but not the GS-1200. Guess that's because of the exiter lens adjustment. [Cool]

[Cool]

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
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posted June 30, 2005 07:07 PM

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I remember the Airlines showing super 8 films regularly on the US coast-to-coast flights. The projectors were Fairchild optical sound designs (mounted in the center luggage console of the aircraft) that utilised an endless loop cartridge, so there was no rewinding or threading required by the airline staff. These projectors also had a spare bulb that could be rotated into place in a couple of seconds. On a McDonald Douglas DC10 or Lockheed 1011 Tristar there were usually about 3 or 4 independently running projectors covering each section of the plane. Sound, of course, was via the plug in earphones which you had to pay about $3.00 to rent. The screens were pulled down from the ceiling of the cabin and were usually about 5 ft wide matt white. The picture quality was usually excellent on night flights but not so good on day flights when there was difficulty in getting the cabin dark enough. Inevitably there was usually some bozo close up to the screen who would insist on keeping his window shade up during the movie, thus washing out the image.

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John Clancy
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From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 01, 2005 06:42 AM

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I remember super 8 shows during flights to Africa about 30 years ago. Can't recall what I saw but always remember the picture was either washed out by daylight streaming through the portholes of having someone's head in my way.

I have "Lethal Weapon" and prefer the airline version to the theatrical version. The bad language has all been re-dubbed and is hilarious. Plus the torture scene is well cut and much easier to endure. Just my opinion.

Interestingly the opening scenes of the drugged out porn star up to when she jumps from the balcony is completely different (to cut out snippets showing nudity and drug abuse) but the length of the sequence is identical. I know this thanks to sync' pulse. Most of the rest of the movie is impossible to sync' pulse.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 01, 2005 01:33 PM

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Get on John, i take it last tango is Paris is a no no for next release than [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

Thanks to all for the info on some of the optical prints with regard to colour [Wink]

[Wink]

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 01, 2005 10:56 PM

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I bought Love at first bite from this very seller in question. He described the print as colors starting to turn. It arrived as pink as pink could be. The color is bad, VERY bad, yet the optical sound is still booming quality. When I complained, he said he didn't have a projector to test it. Come on.....you can't hold a few frames in your hand directly off the reel and see pink? The print was also missing heads and tails. So I got a puzzle. Not a movie. BUYER BEWARE.

CG

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Alan Rik
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From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 02, 2005 12:27 PM

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My Copies of Spaceballs, Little Shop and Remo Wiliams are still in great condition!
I have been blessed...thank you ...thank you very much (In Elvis voice.)

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 02, 2005 12:29 PM

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Beware of e-bay full stop far as im concerned.Films being sold on here are probably 10% honest cine people and 90% people going through all the crap they can find in there lofts because they belive as the news keeps saying that you can make a fast buck. I shall continue to use other collectors and dealers./ At least you have some protection and in case no-ones noticed the average film price appears to be down a little bit as the hobby declines. [Eek!]

[Eek!]

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted July 02, 2005 01:35 PM

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I have to disagree with you regarding Ebay Tom - as long as you ask sufficient questions from the seller before bidding you will be OK most of the time. After nearly four years using Ebay I have won many auctions that have given me cine equipment and film gems at a fraction of the cost dealers would ask. Also some dealers buy films on Ebay to re-sell on their own lists at profit (I know as I have sold films to them myself) so Ebay cannot be all as bad as you make it out to be. I'm sure there are literally thousands of movies 'in people's lofts' that I would much prefer to see sold on Ebay than thrown away on a rubbish dump - films owned and looked after over the years by serious cine collectors that may now be deceased and did not feature prominently enough on the cine scene over the years for other collectors to be aware their collection might be for sale after they passed away. Dealer experiences are not always perfect either; I have occasionally received so called 'A' grade prints from delaers that had to be returned because they were damaged, badly worn or had faded colour, and I had to pay the return postage myself so where is the difference to returning films to Ebay sellers for credit? I think it is a classic case that collectors will only mention their bad Ebay experiences - it would be nice to hear of some of the good ones I'm sure occur on a regular basis as well.
Kevin.

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Tom Photiou
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From: Plymouth U.K
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posted July 02, 2005 01:47 PM

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mmmmm

[Confused]

Must admit i've been stung once so i guess thats ist impressions. I shall keep my eyes out with caution. [Wink]

[Wink]

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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posted July 02, 2005 01:48 PM

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mmmmm

[Confused]

Must admit i've been stung once so i guess thats ist impressions. I shall keep my eyes out with caution. [Wink]

[Wink]

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted July 02, 2005 02:03 PM

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Hello Tom
No worries, I'm sure you'll do OK on some future auctions and maybe feel differently about it, perhaps I've just been a lucky git so far [Wink]

[Wink]

. The questions you ask before bidding go a long way to providing safegards if you need to request a refund afterwards, so keep any email replies from the seller for future reference if it all goes belly up. I had to do this once myself, and the revelation I'd kept all the replies from the seller to questions I had asked before I won the auction was enough to generate a full refund. A psychological approach to the bidding styles of others needs to be applied to win at good prices too! Sorry if this has got a bit off topic by the way, but Winbert will definitely benefit by pre-questioning sellers as well.

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Mike Peckham
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From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 02, 2005 03:03 PM

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Gotta say, Ebay has done me proud. Out of the many purchases I have made I have had so few bad buys that I'm happy to let them go and accept that the good buys more than make up for them.

I've had good deals on both films and equuipment and whilst a lot of stuff sells for way more than I'm prepared to pay, every now and agian you some how get that amazing bargain that leaves you wondering why there seemed to be nobody else there bidding the price up against you.

Funny thing is, you can see a film or a piece of equipment go one week for perhaps £100 - £125 and then the next week, an identical item will sell for just £25. Why is that? I guess it's down to suttlties in the way items are listed, perhaps some don't show up on so many searches...

I've been lucky with my airline prints too, colours and sound all seem good though Little Shop of Horrors is just a little warm. I think it might have been printed that way though.

Mike [Cool]

[Cool]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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peter booth
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: scarborough,north yorkshire
Registered: Jul 2004

posted July 02, 2005 03:07 PM

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Hello Kevin,I too have bought and sold on ebay on a regular basis,and I'vePeter. not had a bad deal yet,the only problem I had was an Eumig 614 D Silent machine I won,unfortunately when it came the rewind did'nt work.I told the seller via email,sent it back as requested and the seller refunded all my cash even the return postage,I must be one of the lucky ones.

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Dave Cragg
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 166
From: Merseyside, Great Britain
Registered: Jun 2005

posted July 02, 2005 04:44 PM

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Hi
just wondered; are all optical super 8 features ex-airline prints? I'd often wondered why such things existed as I wouldn't have thought there was ever a great enough market for them.
If so, i'll avoid such purchases in the future if the swearing is likely to be dubbed. Can you imagine Joe Pesci in Goodfellas being as convincing saying "crikey!", "crumbs!" or "you silly sausage!"
Ps on the Ebay debate I once bought a projector from a seller who advertised the projector as both sound and dual gauge.
The seller claimed his hobby was restoring and selling projectors. As soon as I opened the box I realised that it wasn't dual gauge. I spoke to the seller on the phone and he claimed to have played both standard and super 8 through it successfully.
I should have pressed for my money back but was content to leave bad feedback. [Mad]

[Mad]

I have to take some of the blame for being niaive and not looking the model up before purchase.
At least with the super 8 dealers you can presume some genuine knowledge on their part?

--------------------
Wide eyed novice.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

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From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted July 02, 2005 06:14 PM

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Real pity with that Eumig projector, Dave - although some sellers really are unaware of the difference between standard 8mm and super-8, this guy was apparently just full of it. As for myself, I've had many eBay transactions that I was very happy with, latest one being my Hahnel Motomat 3001 editor/viewer which actually blows my Elmo 912 out of the water. [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

About my worst disappointment was my first print of Hoppity Goes To Town which was sold by a guy who kept claiming that "color was excellent." Of course when I got it, it was completely red, and I too wished I had pressed for a refund instead of just leaving bad feedback. All this online buying is so convenient that when you do get ripped off, putting things right again amounts to work (emailing the seller, shipping the goods back, etc.) that you don't seem to want to deal with anymore...! [Eek!]

[Eek!]

Oh, and I've been wondering the same thing... are all optical super-8 features airline prints?

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 02, 2005 08:55 PM

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Ok..thanks for all replies, this shows that the 8mmforum is really alive! But to ko keep on track, beside Jan' dan Dave's question, I'll ask from different angle: Why Airline used optical prints? not the common magnetic one?

Anybod can answer?

--------------------
Winbert

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

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From: Ohio, USA
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posted July 02, 2005 10:34 PM

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That's a good question!!

Here's my guess (and it's just a guess): they wanted a cheap and easy way to make multiple copies of a film, as needed for each of the airplanes which was equipped to show in-flight movies... And it seems to me that making a print from a negative master with an optical sound track was much more straightforward and economical than making a print, striping it, recording sound on the stripe (while having to maintain sync), and so on...

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Barry Attwood
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From: Enfield, U.K.
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posted July 03, 2005 06:14 AM

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Did you know that not all unusual 8mm features were for Airlines, but some were made especially for Oil Rigs and the like, and these had magnetic stripe sound tracks, as the Oil Rigs used normal 8mm projectors, thus no need for an optical soundtrack. I remember many years back that I bought a copy of "Benji" (clever little dog story) and this was an ex oil rig print (beautiful quality too), the only thing that didn't happen to these prints was the special treatment that the Optical Airline prints went through, as these had a thin film of an anti scratching coating (silicon if I remember right), and that is why many Optical print might be turning a bit, but the overall physical condition is still very good. One way of noticing these prints are the fact that they were produced as 400' reels for each part (not the one complete print for Airlines), and usually only had one stripe. What still amazes me even today, is why they produced a print of a film like "Benji" for tough Oil Rig workers, now that is a mystery?

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

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From: Ohio, USA
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posted July 03, 2005 09:38 AM

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*laughs* Good one [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

Why, indeed [Smile]

[Smile]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Brooksville, FL
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posted July 03, 2005 10:55 AM

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The prints shown on the airline flights were placed in a giant cassette continous loop device. This way, the blonde stewardess could insert and press play and go on to other bad food projects. The machines designed for playback of this type were optical. So everything had to work.

I've taken a few flights since the 1980's. Never did see an optical movie. But the blonde stewardess....yes sir she was cute. [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

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posted July 03, 2005 11:25 AM

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Are you sure this isn't merely a case of selective memory there, Chip [Wink]

[Wink]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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