8mm Forum: ELMO ST1200 HD'S

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Topic: ELMO ST1200 HD'S

peter booth
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: scarborough,north yorkshire
Registered: Jul 2004

posted September 02, 2005 04:24 AM

Hello everyone,I have recently bought a Elmo ST 1200 HD projector and I wondered if any other forum members had any trouble with theirs.The problem with mine is the auto feed,I find that sometimes the film goes through to take up ok,but other times the picture is juddering on screen and takes a few attempts to rectify it using the loop restorer,usually it clears after the credit sequences which is annoying when friends come around,and projects perfectly after the initial loading,I would welcome your comments guys, Peter.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 02, 2005 07:32 AM

Peter,
This is normally caused by the loop not forming correctly under the lens. When the autothread is released the pinchroller should drop down and pinch the film against the brass capstan. This action helps to form the loop. First thing to check is to see if the loop has formed when it has this juddering. If not just try pushing down slightly on the green plastic assay which has the rubber pinch roller attached and see if the loop forms on its own.
Make sure the brass capstan and the rubber pinchroller are clean. Use Isopropyl Alcohol to clean both these. (Chemist can supply this).
Another thing to check is that the loop restore black lever is given a slight kick by the Pinch Roller green assay when it comes down. This is just to give a little kick start to forming the loop although not 100% esential. Its the pinchroller/capstan which does the bulk of the work.
I have seen a few machines where the screw in the centre of the brass capstan has worked slightly loose so also check this.
If all is ok and clean etc and pushing a bit more pressure on the assay cures the prob then I would say that the spring pressure for the pinchroller assay needs increasing slightly. The spring can slacken off with age and use. Its the large spring which is at the front of the machine in front of the sound assay/guides etc. If you have the optical sound version it sits behind the optical sound lamp.
Hope that helps, Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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peter booth
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: scarborough,north yorkshire
Registered: Jul 2004

posted September 02, 2005 11:05 AM

Thanks for info Kevin,I will check your findings when I power up again,it only faults on some films not others,thanks again,Peter.

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 02, 2005 01:02 PM

Kevin and Pete

I have found sometimes the leaders are the cause of this. Jan Bister and I have discussed in detail that certain leader base might be to stiff, even after lubrication, to form the loop on forward thrust (surge) and for that reason the loops are lost. Remember also how important it is in the design of the worm gears in the gearbox, it begins to move the sound head rotating so that the film just doesn't have to get it going. The leaders we are having trouble with is Neumade Fiesta leader rolls. I have found that polyester scrap films are the best leaders to use and in addition I try not to mix magentic leaders on the front of optical prints. Remember this machine runs optical sound film as a silent based film....on the newer hd units there is a physical difference of the mag head thickness and pressure when switching between mag and optical sound.

cg

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted September 03, 2005 05:23 AM

The rapid start up mechanism on the ST1200HD's isnt caused by the worm wheel but a unique mechanism in itself. On these machines after time they dont always function well. I'm hoping to cover this in the next FFTC.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 03, 2005 09:16 AM

The rapid start mechanism rarely works properly on the ST1200's. You can lube it up and reset it and once again it will stop working. This was a very poor design. Lets face it the ST600/160/180,800 and GS800 are all without this capstan start up mevahnism so the capstan will come up to speed slower but should not be the cause of the lack of loop forming.
The ST's I have owned in the past were never fussy about the leader as long as it didnt curl in an adverse way so your comments Chip still puzzle me especially as these machines were designed in the heyday of acetate based films.
The ST's need to be set up correctly as per the manual and then regulary checked, cleaned and lubed.
I still think its one of the reasons I mentioned in my earlier post as I have seen this problem before and from memory those are the items I check and adjust if need be.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted September 03, 2005 09:26 AM

I think Chip was talking about really poor quality leaders such as those made of plain plastic instead of acetate... or leaders that tend to static buildup (such as the Neumade Fiesta stuff). But then, I haven't really had any trouble with threading, or the forming of the loop, so long as the leader isn't excessively curled (as Kevin said).
The start-up mechanism on my ST-1200HD works fine, it's just not very effective [Roll Eyes]

I view it more as a way of reducing momentary stress on the film in bringing the sound drum up to speed, rather than a means of doing just that all by itself.

Kevin - just curious, (since I don't have a manual) what is there that needs to be "set up correctly?" Wouldn't want to miss anything I ought to be doing with my projector. [Smile]

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 03, 2005 08:20 PM

Jan, It's probably a good idea to get a manual. There are various tensions to be set up for proper take-up etc. Also the pressure of the pinch roller and various other small adjustments. Really it's a topic which is too complex to go into in detail here.
I think there are various places to get a manual. Maybe Chip could send you a photocopy of the one I sent to him?

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted September 03, 2005 09:58 PM

Will ask him. [Smile]

Are we talking about a technical manual, rather than the user's guide?

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 04, 2005 06:25 AM

Its a photocopy of my full repair manual. Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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peter booth
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: scarborough,north yorkshire
Registered: Jul 2004

posted September 04, 2005 02:41 PM

Hello again,to all who answered my question many thanks,not being a technical person I think my best bet would be to send it off for a service and thorough check,it may not have been serviced for years,thanks again,Peter.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 04, 2005 05:17 PM

You can send it down to me if you want to. However you may be able to find someone a little nearer to you. Have a word with Phil at CHS.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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