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Author Topic: Difference between Elmo GS800 and GS1200?
Xander van der Merwe
Film Handler

Posts: 38
From: Auckland, NZ
Registered: Nov 2003

- posted November 22, 2003 10:27 PM      Profile for Xander van der Merwe   Author's Homepage   Email Xander van der Merwe   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

As a relative newby to the 8mm hobby, I wonder if someone can please enlighten me as to the differences between the GS800 and GS1200 models? Also, what is the difference betw the GS and ST models? I can get a GS800 for a relatively good price and want to ensure that I'm getting a good projector.

Update: I gather that the GS800 takes 800' and the GS1200 takes 1200' max capacity. Any other differences and is 800' a serious limitation?

Thanks in advance

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 23, 2003 12:14 AM      Profile for Dan Lail   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Xander, I have an Elmo GS800. The one I have plays magnetic and optical sound films. Some GS800s only play magnetic sound films. The bulb is 100watts, where as the GS1200 has a 200 watt bulb. My 800 is mono sound, The 1200 is stereo. As far as reel capacity, with an 800' reel, most features would require only one reel change. With a 1200' reel capacity, you can buy a 1200' reel with a small hub that actually holds 1600'. I recently used these 1600' capacity reels on my 1200HD for a Halloween double feature. It was great not having to change reels half way through. I don't own a GS1200, but I hope to soon. I'm sure someone else will chime in with much more info about the 1200. I can say my 800 is a fine machine and runs flawlessly. I also have an Elmo 1200HD magnetic/ optical projector. It has a 150 watt bulb and a 1200' reel capacity. I don't know if it will play stereo films. I don't have any stereo film to try it with. Hope this helps. [Smile]

Correction: I don't own a GS800, it's an ST800. Thanks, Alan. [Wink]

[ November 24, 2003, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: Dan Lail ]

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 23, 2003 03:04 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Xander,

I am still relatively new to this lark (14 months) and bought a GS800 (from a dealer!) which is a mag only but is Stereo. I like Elmo's because they are so well built and easy to cleas esp around the gate area. The GS has proven a good work horse but I would advise you get one with a 1.1 or 1.0 lens and not the 1.3 they often come with. You can also have the shutter modified by fitting a 2 blade one which will increase light output but restricts you to 24fps. I have an instruction manual somewhere should you need one.
The 800ft spool capacity is a bit frustrating when you have also the option of a 1200ft machine. Like Dan I have an ST1200HD Mag /Opt which is not a true stereo machine like the GS1200 but does allow both tracks to be output to a stereo amp if required. The ST is built like a tank.
The dilema I face when I get a stero film loaded on 600ft reels or on 1200ft reels is whether to splice down to 800's. I just don't like cutting the film! Answer- have two projectors lined up so you can flip from one to the other!
I have been debating the purchase of a GS1200 and a certain person in the UK is trying hard to tempt me but I see so many threads re problems with this machine on the forum I wonder if it is the right thing to do.
Good luck!

Tony

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Tony

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 23, 2003 03:17 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have owned both the GS800 and the GS1200. I feel that hands down the GS1200 is a FAR superior machine. Yes, there are problems with the GS1200's but really, I have owned one for over 15 years of its 20 year life and I had to have it repaired 3 times I believe. Once for one of the channels that went out in 1984. This was repaired through Elmo and then 2 more times for minor issues. One was a hum in the soundtrack and the other was a bad solenoid. That is great reliability for a 20 year old machine!
What I didn't like about the GS800 was the fact that the machines overall build quality was inferior. Once you have used the piano type keys of the GS, it is hard to go back to the rotary type of knob for threading and the lamp.
Also the finish of the chassis is different. These are just the cosmetic issues I had with the 800.
The Gs is much brighter to my eyes than the 800 was and the image was sharper overall from side to side. The sound of the 1200 was much better and louder. The GS800 I had seemed to have more clack (Soundwise) than all the GS1200's I have owned. (4 and still counting!)
The Gs1200's when they are serviced and generally used literally PURR when they are played. I had placed it side by side with a Bauer T610 and even though the Bauer T610 was so quiet and nice, with the 1200 I felt I was watching a 16mm print. Also the lens I have always used is the 1.0.
I think the only other machine I might be happy with if all the GS1200's disappeared would be either a Fumeo or maybe a Beaulieu.
Get a GS1200!

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 23, 2003 05:01 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Perhaps we ought to consider the costs here. A good GS 800 may be less than 25% or 20% of the cost of a GS1200. For some that is well worth paying but others may not quite feel the same.

Other factors to consider perhaps are how large a picture you will be throwing? The quality of the films you will be showing. How dark the room can be. How often you will use it?

Tony

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Tony

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 23, 2003 06:07 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Im sure Tony knew I would pick up on his earlier comment: "but I see so many threads re problems with this machine on the forum"
I dont remember seeing too many comments along those lines. I would like to say that probably most people with large collections of films have probably got got themselves GS1200's for showing their movies as it is one of the most reliable and brightest machines that was made. This is probably the reason why there are more comments on the forum. Also if you look through the posts you will notice that the ST1200 also has it's fair share of problems and in some cases more.
The later version of GS1200 has a much steadier picture on screen due to the reverse loop like the ST600/180 etc and is less clacky than the ST1200 and GS800 which has the forward loop. It is very important to make sure that there is no guide wear on the GS1200 as that is probably the area which does let them down but then that will be exactly the same as with the ST600/800 range. These guides can be modified or reshaped to cut down wear which I have done on my own GS1200. Motors failing can be a bit of a problem but then if a motor fails in any super 8 projector these days it will be difficult to get a replacement.
The GS800 film path is the same as the ST1200 range and does suffer from flutter on the sound on high level soundtracks something which was virtually removed on the GS1200 by way of the little rubber roller prior to the sound heads and was reduced again on the later ver 3 machine with the introduction of the reverse film loop.
My advice is to cheack any machine over very carefully first. Look for wear, check for a build up of oxide all over the place etc etc. A very dirty machine has probably had a large quantity of film thorugh it and not been looked after.
A later GS1200 in good condition and well looked after will last years. Its got a good sound amplifier built in with many recording possiblities and of course plenty of light for those big screen shows. [Smile]
BTW the later Ver 3 machines have lines on the vol & tone controls and not dots also the loop restorer lever on the side points backwards and not forwards like on the ver1 & 2 machines.
The GS800 has a much lower sound output and is very restricted on light output. Its a basic stereo super 8 machine without all the bells and whistles and that is what you should expect from it. It's really a case of what do you want from your machine and how much are you prepared to pay.
Best of luck with your decision, Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 23, 2003 06:10 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dan,
I just reread your post. If you have a mono 800 then you must have a ST800 and not a GS. All the GS models were stereo.
FYI-

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 23, 2003 06:58 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev

Thought you might!

I think the best idea is to have one of all the Elmo range and use them till they die. Or buy 2 of everything?
Now, about that extension to the house...............

Tony [Wink]

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Tony

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Xander van der Merwe
Film Handler

Posts: 38
From: Auckland, NZ
Registered: Nov 2003

- posted November 23, 2003 01:29 PM      Profile for Xander van der Merwe   Author's Homepage   Email Xander van der Merwe   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for all the informative feedback. Although I would dearly like to own a GS1200, I cannot justify the cost right now.

My dedicated light controlled theatre is mainly digital but I own an Elmo CL16 and an Eiki for 16mm as well as an Argus super 8mm with about a dozen films in each format that I use from a novelty point of view. I'm not totally happy with the Argus and that is why I want to upgrade. The throw distance will be about 15'.

I can get the GS800 (incl an editor and about half a dozen of 400' condensed films) for around US$150. The condition is almost as new.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 23, 2003 01:47 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Xander, That sounds like a good deal to me. I would go for it at that price. Do check it out first if possible. A GS800 in the UK would sell for about £300 -400.
They are nice machines and simple to use and then maybe oneday you will have enough money to buy it's big brother. [Wink]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 23, 2003 02:35 PM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Xander,

At that price it is a steal.

I tried to email you but it was blocked- would like to ask a 16mm question-can you email me at tony@supereight88.fsnet.co.uk?

Thanksb

--------------------
Tony

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 23, 2003 05:24 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Xander,
ANY Elmo or Eumig projector will make the Argus look like the piece of junk that it is. I think the Argus was made in the USA and was designed to sell very cheap in supermarkets like K-Mart. It's performance is extremely poor and it cannot be recommended at all. Good luck with your procurement of a good super 8 machine.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Xander van der Merwe
Film Handler

Posts: 38
From: Auckland, NZ
Registered: Nov 2003

- posted November 23, 2003 06:12 PM      Profile for Xander van der Merwe   Author's Homepage   Email Xander van der Merwe   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Once again, thanks for all the replies and advice - it is much appreciated.

I have decided to go ahead and purchase the GS800 as an interim step up from the Argus (yes, the Argus is junk - you can never get the thing focused properly and it is very prone to jumping). Ultimately I'd like to get a 1200. The GS800 actually includes both a splicer and an editor as well as the extra films - I'm buying remote so can't check but the owner ensures me that he purchased it new and it is hardly used and in excellent condition (fingers crossed).

The last problem (hopefully) I need to solve is to get something good to play my standard 8mm films on (I assume the GS800 can't do that) since I only have a very old Eumig manual model that is really too old to use.

Regards
Xander

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 23, 2003 07:25 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Xander,
For Standard 8mm I would recommend that you get a Bolex 18-5 projector. This is a really beautiful little machine, made with legendary Bolex precision, very quiet running, very simple manual threading, and extremely kind to film. You will find lot's of these on EBay, and they typically sell for about $50.00.
Other good standard 8mm projectors are the excellent and beautiful Bolex M8 (but lamps may be hard to find for this model, and it uses the old style 500watt lamp), or any of the standard 8mm Eumigs such as the P8. Do NOT buy any of the auto threading Bell and Howell's (except for the really excellent manual threading 606 or Regent series), as they are murder on films.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Xander van der Merwe
Film Handler

Posts: 38
From: Auckland, NZ
Registered: Nov 2003

- posted November 24, 2003 05:38 PM      Profile for Xander van der Merwe   Author's Homepage   Email Xander van der Merwe   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Do the GS800 and GS1200 have fixed lenses (like 16mm projectors) or do they have zoom lenses as well (like my Argus has)?

TIA

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Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 24, 2003 09:59 PM      Profile for Trevor Adams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Xander,if you wish to see a nice GS1200 that is for sale($700NZ=233 pounds Stg.) with a box of spares-including a new stereo amp board and sound head),I can show you one-right here in Auckland. I am looking for a LIGHTER projector,I'm sick of humping the GS1200 up and down the stairs.I could even trade in a GS800.......think about it. If a trade is possible I'd keep my f1.1 zoom lens and you could keep the one that is in the GS800.Trevor

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Trevor

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 24, 2003 10:15 PM      Profile for Dan Lail   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi, Alan, yep! it's an ST 800. Sorry 'bout the mistake everyone. No wonder that darn projector won't play stereo. [Big Grin]

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Xander van der Merwe
Film Handler

Posts: 38
From: Auckland, NZ
Registered: Nov 2003

- posted November 24, 2003 10:29 PM      Profile for Xander van der Merwe   Author's Homepage   Email Xander van der Merwe   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Trevor, we can certainly discuss a possible trade - I will phone you. I should hopefully have the GS800 by the end of the week.

[ November 25, 2003, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: Xander van der Merwe ]

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Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 25, 2003 01:37 PM      Profile for Trevor Adams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Okey dokey.trev

--------------------
Trevor

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Xander van der Merwe
Film Handler

Posts: 38
From: Auckland, NZ
Registered: Nov 2003

- posted November 27, 2003 06:32 PM      Profile for Xander van der Merwe   Author's Homepage   Email Xander van der Merwe   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've just received my GS800 and I'm very impressed. It is in near mint condition (could probably be passed for new). It is a HUGE step up from the Argus. I'm excited about this all over again... [Smile]

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 28, 2003 10:02 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's right Xander, once you get into Elmo's you are getting into the best that super 8mm can do. Cheap projectors, like the Argus, have given Super 8mm a bad rap over the years, they have very poor mechanics and lenses like marbles. Not many people realize how superb super 8 can be when shown with the best equipment. I was watching "Pearl Harbor" the other night,(400ft Cinemascope, Derann) and the quality of the picture just blew me away. Have fun with the GS800!

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Xander van der Merwe
Film Handler

Posts: 38
From: Auckland, NZ
Registered: Nov 2003

- posted November 28, 2003 02:08 PM      Profile for Xander van der Merwe   Author's Homepage   Email Xander van der Merwe   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm actually surprised at how much brighter the GS800 is compared with the Argus when both use 100w 12v lamps. Must be the better lens on the Elmo?

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 28, 2003 02:54 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes the lens is a critical factor. The Argus probably has an uncoated f1.6, f1.9 or f2.5 lens. The Elmo is probably f1.1 or f1.3 and will be a coated lens, which minimizes reflection loss and heightens contrast. Makes a huge difference. This is why the Elmo f1.0 lens is eagerly sought by collectors. It is the best Elmo lens out there- get one if you can, but expect to pay several hundred dollars for one. It will almost double your light output on the GS800, and has razor sharp resolution.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Xander van der Merwe
Film Handler

Posts: 38
From: Auckland, NZ
Registered: Nov 2003

- posted December 14, 2003 11:43 PM      Profile for Xander van der Merwe   Author's Homepage   Email Xander van der Merwe   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, in the end Trevor and I came to a mutually beneficial trade agreement and I am now the proud owner of a GS1200 and Trevor is the proud owner of a GS800.

The feature on the GS1200 that impressed me most (over the GS800) is the super fast rewind facility. The slightly brighter image also helps.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 16, 2003 04:07 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Well done. Look after it, keep it clean, watch those guides and it should keep going for years.

Kevin [Smile]

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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