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Author
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Topic: Goo-Gone as a Film Cleaner
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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted June 17, 2004 02:22 PM
Hi, here is the data from the kodak site
Film Cleaning Solvents
The use of organic solvents to clean motion picture films has been an accepted practice for over 30 years. The 1996 Montreal Protocol legislation has however, banned the manufacture of the most common solvent (1,1,1 - Trichloroethane) previously used for film cleaning. The motion picture industry continues to request that other chemicals be identified as potential alternatives for use in film cleaning applications. As a service to the motion picture industry, Kodak has provided a list of potential alternatives and still continues to search for new film cleaning solutions.
One of the most frequently asked questions we receive about film cleaning is: "What film cleaning solution do you recommend that we use?" Unfortunately, there is no simple answer to this question. After extensively searching for a "replacement" for 1,1,1-Trichloroethane, no one chemical has been identified as having all the positive performance attributes of 1,1,1-Trichloroethane. The table below provides a list of alternative solvents suitable for cleaning motion picture films (ECN, ECI, ECP). Each solvent has been tested for color image dye stability and physical deformation of the film (e.g., base curling). In the table you will note that there are many differences between the solvents: boiling points, cost, cleaning ability, etc. The choice of a solvent will be dependent upon its particular application and additionally may be subject to rules and regulations regarding health, safety, and environmental considerations. We strongly suggest that you fully research and carefully test any film cleaning solution to determine if it will fulfill all your specific operational and end-product quality criteria before making a final selection.
The successful and safe use of these solutions in existing (or future) film cleaning equipment has been left to the equipment manufacturers since they must optimize their equipment for the individual properties of the various solutions (e.g., machine speed, drying temperature, part compatibility, cleaning setup, safety features, etc.).
Lipsner Smith has tested a variety of alternative film cleaning solvents and has provided some helpful information on their web site. However, the listing of any solution does not guarantee its performance in a film cleaning operation. This listing serves only as a general guideline as to those solvents that have been identified as not having a deleterious effect on motion picture films in limited testing.
This table is periodically updated to reflect the results of our most recently conducted tests. It should be noted that apart from commodity chemicals (i.e., isopropanol), Eastman Kodak does not manufacture or sell these solvents. Pricing, transportation, quality control, etc., are all the responsibility of the original chemical manufacturer or supplier.
The following helps explain the table of information. Questions concerning any of this information can be asked through the contact form.
Name - Trade name or general chemical name used to identify (purchase) the solvent. Specific chemical manufacturers (sole suppliers) have been identified wherever possible. Generic descriptions have also been provided where mixtures of chemicals are used.
Flash Point (FP) - This is the minimum temperature at which a liquid gives off vapors in sufficient concentrations to form an ignitable mixture with air as determined by Uniform Fire Code Standard 9-1 & 9-2. A chemical is called flammable if its flash point is less than 100 degrees F, and combustible if the flash point is greater than 100 degrees F. The use of chemicals with flash points requires additional safety considerations.
Boiling Point (BP) - This is the temperature (in degrees C) at which a liquid exerts a vapor pressure equal to atmospheric pressure. Films cleaned with high boiling liquids generally will require longer drying times and/or higher drying temperatures.
Cleaning - This is a subjective evaluation of hand cleaning tests that rates the solution's ability to remove debris and oils from the surface of the film.
Cost- This is a categorization of the suggested manufacturers cost (US $) per pound of solvent.
Evaporation Rate- This is a characterization of the volatility of the solvent. The higher the evaporation rate the quicker the drying, but the higher risk of losing the solvent to the atmosphere (harder to recapture and reuse).
Definitions:
TLV = threshold limit value;
ppm = parts per million;
ODP = ozone depletion potential;
GWP = global warming potential.
FILM-CLEANING SOLVENT OPTIONS
Acceptable image stability and physicals:
NAME: FP Fdeg BP Cdeg Cleaning Cost Evap Rate COMMENTS:
TRICHLOROETHANE
(111, Trichlor, TCA, CF-2) None 73 Excellent $+ M Most used cleaning. TLV 350ppm
ODP Phase out
Perchloroethylene
(Perc, Tetrachloroethylene) None 121 Good $-- L Wet gate solvent. Increasing use
as a cleaner. TLV 25ppm.
HFE 8200 3M
Ethyl Perfluoroisobutyl ether / Ethyl Perfluorobutyl ether None 76 Adequate $$$ H Zero ODP, Low GWP
Exposure limit 200ppm
HFE 7200 (3M)
Ethyl Perfluoroisobutyl ether/ Ethyl Perfluorobutyl ether None 78 Adequate $$$ H No ODP, Low GWP
HFC 43-10 mee (DUPONT)
(1,1,1,2,3,4,4,5,5,5-decafluoro Pentane) None 54 Adequate $$$ H TLV (temp) 400ppm.
Low odor
ASAHI KLIN AK-225 (ASAHI)
(3,3-dichloro-1,1,1,2,2-
pentafluoropropane) None 51-56 Good $$$ H ODP (phase out 2015)
TLV (temp) 50ppm
ISOPROPANOL
(2-propanol, secondary propyl alcohol,
dimethyl carbinol, petrohol) 53 82 Good $ H Flammable. Colorless. Low odor.
Gathers water.
ISOBUTYLBENZENE
(2-methylpropyl benzene, methyl-1-phenylpropane) 131 170 Good $ L Combustible; colorless, persistent odor
ACTREL 1064 L (EXXON)
(Mixture of hydrocarbons) 147 196-237 Good $$ L Combustible; colorless, slight ester odor
Hydrotreated Naptha (Signal Inc.)
Hydrocarbon Type Film Cleaner 40 104 154-177 Excellent $ L Non Hazardous, Combustible 300ppm
Isopar® G Naptha
Exxon Chemical 106 161-176 Excellent $- L Non Hazardous, Combustible OEL=300ppm
Exxsol® D3135 Naptha
Exxon Chemical 106 158-177 Excellent $- L Non Hazardous, Combustible OEL=300ppm
Soltrol® 100
Chevron Phillips Chemical Co. 106 160-167 Excellent $- L Non Hazardous, Combustible
* $ = 1 - 5 dollars per pound, $$ = 5 - 10 dollars per pound, $$$ =10 - 20 dollars per pound
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Tony
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted June 17, 2004 11:44 PM
Tony,
That was an accurate and Masterful reply. Many thanks.
Here in the USA, consumers may ask for a Material Safety Data Sheet; also
know as an MSDS. This is granted in the Right to Know Law,
That is part of the Occupational Safety Administration in the Federal Government. (OSSIA)
MSDS are available to paints, thinners, cleaners etc. However, it is important
to understand minimum threshold levels. These companies are required by law to reveal the safety levels to consumers. They are also required to state
the main ingredient in the product.
Film Renew is a Stoddard Solvent, which is indicated on an MSDS.
Stoddard Solvents are similar to paint thinner.
But, I would not put paint thinner on my films.
In essence, the lower the level, the higher the concentration of the chemical to
fill the air. The higher the level, in parts per million; ( PPM ) means that it
will take higher concentrations to make you ill.
Dipose of all 1,1,1 tricloretheane products properly.
Keep good ventilation, a fan to expell odors away from
your breathing area, and wear the proper protective gloves,
especially when handling any film cleaners.
Best Regards and good health to all.
Michael
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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted June 19, 2004 09:08 AM
Yes Brad, I DO use furniture polish on my films. Johnson's FAVOR to be exact. I have found that rewinding the film through a cotton cloth with a light spray of Favor on the cloth, provides some lubrication of the film. I've done this for years with no bad effects, as long as you don't soak the cloth. The problem I have with commercial film cleaners Brad, is that I don't trust them from a health point of view. They often contain dangerous and sometimes toxic volatiles. Where are the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS)?- many cleaners dont have them or won't supply them , so you use them at your own risk. Much as I love my films, my health comes first. In comparison, household products such as furniture polish are very safe, having been thoroughly tested by the big companies. I am presently experimenting with ArmorAll wipes to determine if these have any benefit. Initial results are promising.
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film Handler
Posts: 35
From: Midland Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 25, 2004 11:29 PM
I finally remembered to check the name of the silicon lubricant that doesn't eat plastics.
Crown 68034 Silicone Lubricant
"General Purpose, Odorless, Colorless, Non-Staining, Will Not Gum, Run-Off or Form Messy Residues" (which is all true)
It comes in a case of 10 or 12 16oz spray cans. Contact info from the can is:
North American Professional Products
91 Caldari Road,
Concord, Ontario, Canada
L4K 3Z9
Telephone: 1-800-461-3131
I still wouldn't recommend cleaning film with silicone though. Use a film cleaner designed for cleaning film, surely your films are worth it.
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Mark Todd
Film God
Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted July 26, 2004 05:55 AM
Hi Tom, I`d yes be very careful with the derran film cleaner as OK on Plastic but as we have said on here before not so good on B+W or acetate films.
It tends to cause them to warp or curl the edges, its not so bad if you don`t use much but then of course you risk scratching the films.Doesn`t tend to do much for lubing actetate either.Good for poly mind.
I seem to have found also that films you can tell were done with 222, very good for its time, tend to have faded or redded more, you can usually tell the 222 remains and its particularly obvious on walton prints on Fuji that usually hold up very well and if you do get one on the way its usually down to 222 or something.
Someone once told me to use WD40 and what a going on and nearly gased myself even in the garden as its so strong in large amounts.
Anybody used Xecote 11 at all in the states, wondered how that fairs long term???????????
In the Uk at the moment about the best I believe is crestclene from Classic home Cinema, about to buy some myself.
Kind when applied and although a bit strong, copeable and it clears pretty well.
Very good for lubing as well I think.
Of course thermofilm was the best and I usd to put it on liberally with my bare fingers, thankfully a while after carbon tet was not used anymore.
Any more of the US stuff any good at all?????
best Mark.
PS I had some B+W standard stuff curl badly with filmgaurd once.I supoose each batch can vary.
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted July 30, 2004 01:41 AM
Hello Mark,
Hopefully the situation will improve with the films that have curled,
and it is curious that some curled and others did not curl.
I believe that you indeed applied the solution correctly and evenly.
May I ask if you had rewound the Film Guard treated films between rewinds, or
by the auto rewind on a projector?
I am curious if due to some reels being out of shape, or if the rewind motor may not provide enough torque in relation to the conditon of each film, has an effect on the outcome with Film Guard applied,
Perhaps hobbyists will expect different results with each reel of film based upon the variables that are encounted when handling film?
I have a notion, that film is a 'breathing' medium, similar to wood.
If wood or furniture is not protected or treated correctly, its properties will change. This is based upon enviornmental conditons and humidity.
Having used Film Renew, I experienced it is as a slow drying cleaner and conditioner. After appling it to film, I use hand rewinds with the films in
my collection. I try not store the films away wet, but allow them to dry before
projection.
This method leaves me feeling satisfied that the films are wound very well, but
not overly tight or excessively loose.
My experience with rewinding the plastic reels from Derann on the GS 1200, leaves many of the films taking up in an irregular, egg shaped,
or with a spongy feel to the film effect, which is due to the rewind and the reels. If I left wet cleaner on the films, they would dry unevenly and found that they would not lay flat the next time that I would use them.
Last but not least, I would use hand rewinds on the curled film, and reverse
the curl by applying a minimal amount of cleaner to the film, and rewind the
film in an opposite method, so that it will lay flat.
Keep it in this position for a week, and check it. If it has flattened by a little bit, try it again, for several more weeks.
Hope this helps.
--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!
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