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Topic: BUYER BEWARE ON EBAY

Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 18, 2004 10:34 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43479&item=3846984341&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

It's the 3 reel digest, NOT the full length (as advertised).

Airplane /w/ Robert Stack

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Andreas Eggeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 467
From: R.I.P.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted October 18, 2004 10:57 AM

hmmm

hmmm, if it is printed in Hamburg, Germany, than the thinner Kodak polyester could be used for printing and it needs realy only 3 x 500 , which have place in marketing film boxes. . This polyester material needs not much place on reels. (not the same as the prestriped Kodak-Polyester from Universal8, Ken, MGM or Derann!!)

Marketings 600 feet version of "Star Wars", needs only a 400 foot reel, if it is printed on that special Kodak polyester film.

The latest marketing full features were printed in Germany..... Wish I could see in the boxes....to find out what type of film it is and what reel size.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted October 18, 2004 11:21 AM

quote:
The latest marketing full features were printed in Germany...

Indeed, but, in that case, weren't the boxes printed in german as well?

Here, if you squint really hard, you can see things printed in english (Super 8 colour sound). If you squint, really, really, really hard (don't try this at home, kids) you can - well, I can - see the French title "Y a-t-il un pilote dans l'avion" ("Is there a pilot onboard this plane?") as well as the Spanish title "Aterizza Como Puedas" (roughly "Land any which way you can"). That, plus the fact that the boxes look exactly like those in my collection, would make me think that Chip is right. Tastes like a cut-down or mini-feature...

Now, where did I put these eyedrops???

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 18, 2004 12:35 PM

If it really is the full length feature, I will slap myself with a wet noodle. I would also apologize to anybody in this forum who happens to be the winning bidder and can show I am wrong. But before I do, I am only suggesting it might not be because I know there is a 3 reel digest, and that I have the full length feature which came as 5 x 400 (acetate).

PS I am Italian and this house always has plenty of pasta (just incase)

Chip G [Big Grin]

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Andreas Eggeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 467
From: R.I.P.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted October 18, 2004 03:58 PM

Hi Chip, Hi Jean-Marc,

[Roll Eyes]

I never said IT IS full length, I said it could be possible it is full length, IF it is printed on the thinest polyester filmstock.

For example: A collector has the three parter. Found the full length. Splice the full feature together on three reels and sell the digest without the boxes. And later he sell the feature in the boxes of the digest. [Smile]

Jean-Marc:
The german marketing-film boxes have the same artwork but only the german title.

For example click following link

The kind of blue hard-paper boxes introduced marketing-film in 1975. marketing-film´s adult lables for the red light market [Embarrassed]

- yes marketing was very successful with that films - suplied 600feet polyester films in that kind of 400 footer boxes. Three of that kind with polyester filmstock give possibilty of a running time of full length.

I asked the seller, if it is the digest and not the full length.
He told me: "YOU'R RIGHT I'M WRONG."
So it is the digest.

yrs.
Andreas

Pasta is one of my favourite.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 18, 2004 04:25 PM

Sorry to break this up but have you guys read the description? he says it's 50mins i.e. the 3 x 400 Digest version.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Andreas Eggeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 467
From: R.I.P.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted October 18, 2004 04:27 PM

Kevin,

I asked him today afternoon. He has corrected the description.

Andreas

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 18, 2004 05:53 PM

Never mind "Airplane". I believe a very interesting thread concerning pasta is soon to begin.
Doug

--------------------
I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted October 19, 2004 02:33 AM

Andreas, Thank you for your explanation and for having the seller correct his description.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 19, 2004 06:29 AM

I always understood Marketing prints were done on Fuji stock. You know the stuff that was used for the Single 8 sound cartridges - the really thin stuff where you can get around 60 minutes of film on a 50ft spool.

Okay, slight exaggeration at the end there but you get the idea.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 19, 2004 11:04 AM

Hi John

Interesting comment. I always wondered why I ran Grease in the theaters (1978) and it was 7 reels; yet when I bought the Marketing feature in 1980 it was 4 x 400 and yep it was all there.

Chip

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 20, 2004 07:03 AM

This seller is quite annoyed about all the people asking about the boxes i told him most people show all the items they are selling and asked him to show al three, so now he is showing all three and left the comments if the films do not sell, the boxes will be for sale not very professional this is from lee's photo in th u.k for those of you across the pond.

--------------------
jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted October 20, 2004 07:55 AM

You get allsorts of film stock with marketing prints, eastman poly that fades, eastman sp poly, I`ve seen agfa but not LPP as a bit later on.
Its a stock lottery on most films when you buy them. I suppose the later the print was struck the better.
I once had a 3x400 of Escape from alcatraz from Paul Foster that was absolutely superb and pin sharp and the colour was amazing, must have been on a crackng fine grain low fade stock.
The last 3x400 of the warriors I bought was going mind you, and like many 8mm print of that era the print qaulity seems to go along with the colour for some strange reason.
Still good fun though.
Best Mark.

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Heinz-Juergen Schachner
Film Handler

Posts: 86
From: Germany
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 20, 2004 08:17 AM

Hello,

Mark is completely right. MARKETING has published their prints on several different film stocks. In my opinion the best film stock was the thin pre-striped KODAK-Polyester, they took for their latest releases, such as THE WARRIORS, ESCAPE FROM ALCATRAZ, PROPHECY and STAR TREK. This film stock hardly ever fades and does hardly turn red.

AIRPLANE has been published in Germany on thin pre-striped KODAK-Polyester film stock. I have seen three prints of the Marketing International full feature and all prints were on acetate film stock.

The problem with the super8mm prints from the late seventies and the eighties lies generally in poor film stock. The mayor film companies such as PICCOLO, UFA and MARKETING in Germany took the cheapest film stock available and this film stock was very often ORWO acetate. Thus nearly all the PICCOLO acetate prints have brown to red colours nowadays. This was not very fair if you think about the high prices they took. DM 149,00 for each 110m/120m reel in colour with sound was a small fortune thirty years ago.

Best Wishes

Heinz-Juergen Schachner
Germany

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Andreas Eggeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 467
From: R.I.P.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted October 20, 2004 11:33 AM

Message from Heinz:
"The mayor film companies such as PICCOLO, UFA and MARKETING in Germany took the cheapest film stock available and this film stock was very often ORWO acetate. Thus nearly all the PICCOLO acetate prints have brown to red colours nowadays."

Heinz,

that isn´t true.

The lab not the lable.

In the most cases the filmslabs ordered the filmstock, not the 8mm lables.

Orwo
======
ORWO was only used for black/white prints. Made in the formerly
German (not) Democratic Republic.

Marketing-Film
==============
The first prints from marketing-film in 1973 were made by
"Mosaik Film Berlin".

They ordered also at Bavaria-Kopierwerk.

Then the prints came from "Atlantik-Film", Hamburg.
Only marketing have their own thin kodak polyester stock,
when it was running low, the labs used for marketing-film
acetat stock again (Indiana Jones) or printed on pre-striped
AGFA-Polyester (The final Countdown).

Don´t know where the Marketing-International US-prints were made.

Piccolo Film
============
Piccolo was a complex lable with different companies behind.
Most piccolo prints were made by "Bavaria Kopierwerk" (Munich).
Some prints made at "Geyer Kopierwerk" Munich.

But Piccolo ordered also prints at the communists.
A lot of black/white prints were made in the formerly
German (not) Democratic Republic at VEB Defa.

Piccolo ordered Disney-prints till the middle of the 80s.
At last they went to "Hadeko", Neuss (North Rhine-Westfalia).

UFA
=======
The lable, where a big company was behind. The Bertelsmann Group. They ordered prints all over the world.
Buck Film, Slough, England
Hadeko, Neuss, Germany
Atlantik-Film, Hamburg, Germany
Geyer, Munich, Germany
Bavaria-Film, Munich, Germany
prints from Italy (Technofilm Distribution, lab??)
prints from France (company ???)
prints from USA (Maritz, Bergen or KEN-Distribution)

My lab experience:

Atlantik-Film
=============
Most prints still in very good condition and with good colors.

- Bavaria Kopierwerk
Prints, made on Kodak-Acetat (see between the holes, Heinz) really susceptibly for turning red. If they used AGFA or Fuji
then these prints still good.

- Hadeko
The lab who has made the prints for Kempski.
I like the most of the Hadeko prints, because they do a god
work and the prints rarely turning red, if the collector stock
their prints correctly!!! But the color timing of the last ufa releases was not the best.

- Mosaik Film
Nowadays not the best quality. Also the AGFA-films have not true colors.

- Geyer Kopierwerk
They used different filmstock, and my experience is
that these prints not all turning red. Also if they printed on Kodak-Eastman in the middle of the 70s.

- VEB Defa (VEB = Folksowned Company [Roll Eyes]

)
very good b/w prints,
I ask me how high was the profit for piccolo.

Italian prints
==============
My Bugs Bunny titles on Kodak Eastman striped after processing have still fresh color.
"Bugs Bunnys", "Derpartment S" or "Jason King" on Kodak prestriped have a brown touch.

French prints
=============
The lab used only AGFA. Still fresh colors. Sharpness sometimes not the best.

Buck Film prints
================
I know the titles for Derann and Walt Disney Home Movies. One of the best quality.!! But the releases on Fuji for UFA are very often horrible.

US-prints
Sometimes good, sometimes bad.
I think the 16mm negativ is decisive.
Television prints are not the best raw material.

[Big Grin]

Now I am going eating pasta in an italian restaurant [Big Grin]

Andreas

[ October 20, 2004, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: Andreas Eggeling ]

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Heinz-Juergen Schachner
Film Handler

Posts: 86
From: Germany
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 21, 2004 01:21 AM

Hello,

Andreas you are correct. I meant the labs, not the labels.

Best Wishes

Heinz-Juergen Schachner
Germany

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 21, 2004 05:09 AM

Here's my question....if the seller is annoyed at people asking all the questions about the boxes, why did he put the item up for bid to begin with. Isn't that what you're supposed to expect when selling on Ebay? OK, now probably he got bombarded with the same questions add nauseum....but gee wiz..........

Sincerely,

Wyatt "Earp"
(One too many bowls of pasta [Big Grin]

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