8mm Forum: First successful track dubbing

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Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on August 06, 2005, 11:59 AM:

Woohoo! I finally took some time off my schedule to try my hands at re-recording a soundtrack.

As I am more into extracts and digests than into features, I selected a "cut-down of a cut-down" of "Once Upon a Time in the West", a 7 minutes piece that I got from our very own Andreas some months ago (the reel is the final confrontation/revelation between Henry Fonda and Charles Bronson). Problem: it was in German...

The actual dubbing took a very short time and was successful after two attempts. The editing took a little longer, but the method proved to be quite reliable.

For all of you who are into technical stuff, my set-up is:
- GS1200 (totally refurbished by Ugo)
- P1008GS-Q crystal sync control (from Pedro)
- Ambico telecine converter
- Canon camcorder
- Apple Mac G5 (2x2.7ghz with 4gb ram and Nvidia video card)
- Handbrake ripping software
- Imovie editing software (+ Quicktime Pro)

Picture taken during test run, this is why you don't see the recording red LEDs lit

I first digitized the extract, running at 25fps, with my camcorder then transfered the film to my computer and saved it in Imovie.

Then, I ripped the original movie from the French DVD. I use the "Handbrake" software as it creates a self-contained Quicktime film. Other rippers usually save everything that's on a dvd, meaning that - sometimes - the soundtrack you want isn't attached to the video file but is saved as a separate file.

Then with Quicktime Pro, I isolated the 18 minutes of footage that covered all of the scenes included in the S8 extract and exported this into Imovie.

Then, using the digitized extract as a template, I edited each shot imported from the DVD, checking frame by frame so both the template and the new edited version run perfectly in sync, bringing the 18 minutes down to 7. A couple of close-ups of the actors were tough as some of the widescreen shots, when reframed to 4/3 in super 8, were looking the same.

While re-recording from the Mac to the GS, I only had to press very briefly the "slow" button on the back of the projector twice to keep the machine in sync resulting in a very brief wow but during quiet scenes with no dialogues.

I'm quite happy with the result and I want to end with a few acknowledgements:
- Ugo: the GS records perfectly.
- Pedro: your sync box works great.
- Paul A: thank you for encouraging me to venture on the re-recording path.
- Andreas: I still have a bunch of films to redub. It's a pleasure doing business with you.

And many thanks to the members of this forum. I read all questions and answers posted here about the recording issues before giving it a try... [Wink]

JMT

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 06, 2005, 01:10 PM:

Hi Jean-Marc and congratulations on your first successful re-recording! The more you get into this , the more films you will want to re-record. Personally, I do not re-record films which are mostly dialogue, but the musicals just cry out to be re-recorded from digital sources. I have re-recorded all my MGM musical features and am amazed at the stereo sound quality you can get from that tiny stripe, and how much it adds to the impact of the film, certainly puts 16mm optical mono to shame.

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on August 06, 2005, 11:35 PM:

Jean-Marc,

This is very encouraging news.
I was wondering while you had ripped the soundtrack with the Handbrake application Software, were you trying to isolate a separate section of the soundtrack for latter use?

I am pleased to hear of the great results!

Michael

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on August 07, 2005, 06:26 AM:

Paul: thanks! [Big Grin]

Michael: Most ripping softwares just take what's on a dvd and save it to your hard-drive, audio and video are always separated in "_TS" files. Which means that you can't import these files into a regular editing software. "Handbrake", on the other hand - [Roll Eyes]

- will only take the film. You decide which available soudtrack you need and the software will save the lot into an MPEG file. Quicktime Pro allowed me to remove the first 2 hours of the film and the last 10 minutes. I then exported what I wanted into MP4, keeping audio at its best but lowering the video resolution in order to keep the file within manageable limits. Switching to MP4 allows perfect importation into Imovie. After redubbing the extract, I exported my edited 7 minutes video version into a .DV file for potential later use. I dumped the rest to restore space on the drive. I hope it clears things up for you.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 07, 2005, 08:12 AM:

Hi Jean,
I have one question (this is for another project), when you have edited the DVD into 7 minutes and saved it to computer, then, if you re-burn the 7 minutes into new-DVD together with all the original DVD existing files, do you think the available features will still exist (playable)? Escpecially the features I am concerned arefor text and language choices.

I am thinking if those feautures are still available in our new 7 minutes DVD, then we can also re-recording the same 8mm film into English, French, or other languages that available in the original DVD.

I would like to know yur response.

Thanks,

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 07, 2005, 08:26 AM:

Jean-Marc: are you sure the DVD files are saved to your harddisk as ._TS files? I've never seen such a thing on a movie DVD, they usually contain .IFO/.BUP files (which contain the track information and such) and .VOB files, which are the actual video files and contain both audio and video in one file (AC3 and MPEG2 streams). Whenever I rip a DVD, I always have to process those .VOB files and extract audio and video into separate files if I want to work with them. Then again, I guess an Apple sees things differently than a PC? [Confused]

Winbert: it's certainly possible to do what you suggest, it would just involve a good deal more work (having to split all the video/audio tracks, edit them, and recombine them using DVD creation software while keeping the existing DVD menu intact).

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on August 07, 2005, 09:32 AM:

Does the 5.1 sound go into the final edit on the computer or just pcm stereo?

If it's 5.1 then there are further possibilities here for sync' pulse.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on August 08, 2005, 03:10 AM:

Winbert: I guess it's possible but honestly, that would be a lot of hard work. It would be easier to re-export the complete file with a different soundtrack and recut the extract.

Jan: Yep, VOB, TS are the volumes on the disc, but the point is not the name, it's the type that can be recognized by the non-linear editing soft. I don't care if it's called VOB, SOB, DUI, DIY, I just need the file to be manageable by Imovie.

John: I'm not sure. The French version of "West" is the original 2.0 stereo track. Imovie features limited sound capacities, I don't know if it "keeps" 5.1 informations when a soundtrack is imported into the editing tool. Perhaps you should look at other softwares like Final Cut or Premiere.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 08, 2005, 05:24 AM:

Jean,
I asked this because I have a dream to play 8mm together with DVD source, with all features available. Infact, if we could disable the picture and leave the text on the screen, then if we play together with LCD projector, we will have also subtitle from different languages. I ever asked this to other DVD forum they say that it is possible to leave the picture out, since text and picture come from different files.

I raised this issue long time ago in this forum. http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001143#000000

I am still curious to do it.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on August 08, 2005, 06:42 AM:

Winbert, I remember your previous post. At the time, I was still experimenting with softwares. The one I was planning on using then didn't work with encrypted discs, this is why I put everything on hold.
I guess that what you suggest can be achieved somehow.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on August 10, 2005, 07:33 AM:

You could almost certainly make a Powerpoint presentation to run alongside your film for much less hassle than trying to preserve the DVD subtitles.

When running your video projector, max out the contrast and run the brightness as low as possible. That will help eliminate the "video black" from interfering with the film image.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on August 10, 2005, 01:26 PM:

Brad, that's even simpler and better!
How about masking the top part of the video image with a card of some sort and project just the lower part where the subtitles would be?

And I also finished redubbing a second cut-down: a 10 minutes edited version of the ending of the 1976 King Kong... It ran in sync the very first time!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 11, 2005, 12:05 AM:

Jean, covering the Projector's lense, I think is not a good idea. It will raise the temperature and....bleeeeew. Remember this is not an EFR 12v 100w which we can share the cost of it with our Big Mac price! (5 Big Macs of course!)

Brad, using power point is true simple, but I need also the sound quality of DVD. Further, typing and synchronizing are my hate. The idea was that since Jean had edited the DVD, then it is once for all to have sound and subtitle choices from the same work.

Moreover, I am thinking to present in several subtitle languages (and even dubbed languages) and show it to friends, so they know that 8mm also has those feautures [Big Grin]

(the other side of my over confidence to this hobby!)

Posted by Ugo Grassi (Member # 139) on March 10, 2006, 03:39 AM:

quote:
- Ugo: the GS records perfectly.

Thank you Jean-Marc... I'm happy to know it... [Smile]

Posted by Andrew Wilson (Member # 538) on March 10, 2006, 03:56 AM:

great stuff jean-marc.your one luckly man.well done.andy.

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