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Topic: Polavision

Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 09, 2005 03:09 PM

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Anybody here on the Forum have any experience with the Polaroid instant movie system? I remember when this first came out in the seventies and a friend of mine brought his into work and caused a sensation, by taking movies of the people in our department and playing them back 3 minutes later! (imagine that , in this day of instant video). This system was regarded as amazing by the press and TV when it was first demonstrated. I was not very impressed though, because you could not play the film through any existing super 8mm projectors, you had to use the polaroid TV style projector. This was because the Polaroid film used an additive system, so the colour was very dense, and you could only get a decent picture on a very small screen. It was a 2 week wonder, my friend was the only person I know who had one, and I think he only used it once. Of course Polaroid invested millions in this system, and they partnered with Eumig , who produced the camera and projector. The financial losses were too great for Eumig to absorb, and this wonderful Austrian company was forced out of buisness by this ill-conceived instant movie system.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 09, 2005 04:03 PM

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There's a Polovision set [viewer, camera and even two films] for sale at 'Arundel Photographica', it's been there for months and I think the guy only wants a few quid for it, I was tempted to buy it out of curiosity but I've already got far too many curios to store away [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

.

I didn't realise it was responsible for bringing Eumig down. [Frown]

[Frown]

Mike

[Cool]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Andreas Eggeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 467
From: R.I.P.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted August 09, 2005 05:18 PM

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Here is a link

web page

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 29, 2010 11:39 AM

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Reviving an old thread, I accidentally found this on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqFZ1CHg4Qk&feature=related

and someone who got unexposed old cart of Polavison and took a shoot with it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2pclBwpeBs&feature=related

I did't follow what was the end of this product, anyone know?

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Winbert

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 29, 2010 11:53 AM

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When I went to business school the Polavision story was used as a a case study of how timing (...like 15 minutes before the first camcorder came out) is everything in business.

If it came out 10 years earlier and had a chance to gain market acceptance and mature technologically, who knows?

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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John Davis
Master Film Handler

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From: Dunfermline, Fife, UK
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posted January 29, 2010 02:45 PM

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I get the odd batch of Polavision films to transfer and I have to say time has not been kind to them. As has been mentioned before they are very dense and probably due to the built in processing, I think they were never actually processed properly.
The result is the emulsion did not seem to be stabilised and even the best condition films have a combination of blisters and a snow storm.
The whole concept was based on a premise that made the logic behind the Ford Edsell seem perfectly grounded.
Every design decision, aside from the instant aspect, was a poor substitute for the existing super 8 it was meant to rival;
the film was shorter
darker
could not be intercut with any other film
had no sound

In short this was a film eqivalent of a cul-de-sac. It had nowhere to go.

It's only redeeming feature was the film shape was super 8 and therefore the films could be broken out of their proprietary cartridge and mounted on a conventional film reel and watched on a super 8 projector (with a very bright lamp!).

Sadly I suspect within 10 years the films will be totally unwatchable

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Paul Adsett
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From: USA
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posted January 29, 2010 06:39 PM

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I agree John, the whole Polavision thing was a debacle, which unfortunately resulted in the bankruptcy of Eumig, who were sub contracted by Polaroid to supply all the cameras and TV style projectors. Any one of us could have told their marketing people it was doomed before they even rolled it out, since it could not compare in quality with Kodachrome, and you could not even project it on a normal super 8 projector (way too dense an image - additive color process)

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
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Thomas Dafnides
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From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
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posted January 29, 2010 08:19 PM

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I think Polavision was way surpassed in bad business judgement by the original RCA Laserdisc .

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David Kilderry
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From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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posted January 29, 2010 08:50 PM

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It makes me wonder why nobody has done some in-depth interviews with former senior execs, designers or workers from Eumig. There would be some facinating answers to our questions I am sure.

David

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Thomas Dafnides
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From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
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posted January 30, 2010 12:53 PM

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I want to correct myself, I meant to state the RCA original videodisc, that had a playback needle (not laserdisc, although that was no winner, either.). RCA lost many millions on that fiasco.

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Alexander Lechner
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From: Leoben, Austria
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posted January 31, 2010 03:11 AM

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According to Schmalfilm magazine it was not only the Polavision disaster that brought Eumig down. One of the main reasons was their contract with the catalogue store Quelle that sold Eumig products under the name Revue; it is described that photo shop owners got really angry about Eumig as the relabeled Revue products were cheaper. And most of the Revue prices were below the production costs!
Eumig was also doing too little R&D on the video technique; the owners still stuck to Super8 when the hype was long over ...

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Alex

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Martin Jones
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From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
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posted January 31, 2010 06:08 AM

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Thomas,
You're right about the losses made by RCA, though the main reason it didn't take off (in the UK at least) was that people wouldn't accept the premise that one would want to watch a film more than once! I was a dealer at the time and although the discs were cheaper than VHS prerecorded tapes, and of better picture quality, it simply wouldn't take off. I did a reasonable business renting out machines with discs to University students, and did sell some machines.
I still have a collection of over 200 discs and several machines and I recently transferred over 50 of them to DVD.
A technical point; the "needle" was simply a guide running in a groove, the actual playback element was not in contact with the disc at all. It was effectively one half of a capacitor, with the disc as the other half.

Martin

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Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Lee Mannering
Film God

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From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted February 17, 2011 04:34 AM

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Just digging up this older thread as I was one of the crazy’s who purchased the whole outfit in the late 70’s. For my use at that time it was ideal as at our cine club we wanted to shoot some test shots for our film making and see the results in minutes. My kit was purchased from our local Dixons photo store along with a very limited supply of film cartridges as I seem to remember you had to leave your name and number for a call back when they actually got hold of stock.

In use it was very simple to load the cine camera, then once exposed you popped the cartridge into the player which rewound the film and once processing had been completed as if by magic it would play the movie. I seem to remember you needed a decent amount of light to film in and if you removed the film from the cartridge to project on a super 8 projector you found it a very dim picture indeed. I still have a player so time permitting will post a little video of it on here as I will also be interested to see it running again.

TV advert www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqFZ1CHg4Qk
TV advert 2 www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJZpqZ05BnI

[ August 24, 2013, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Lee Mannering ]

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John Davis
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From: Dunfermline, Fife, UK
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posted February 17, 2011 10:05 AM

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Lee,
your films must be leading a charmed life because I have seen a lot of Polavision over the years, all suffering from an emulsion blistering to various degrees.
The film shown on a conventional projector is very dark and I suspect in these more litigious times Polaroid would have been sued off the market when this image blistering started to appear.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

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From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted February 17, 2011 10:22 AM

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Hi John. Some of the telecine we have handled here of Polavision has confirmed the little cartridges of film do not like heat, so if they have been badly stored in the loft for instance they sure do suffer. Knowing the limitations of the system at least many will have family records on it perhaps being just a bit more accessible than the early video formats of the 70’s.
[Wink]

[Wink]

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Juergen Lossau
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From: Hamburg, Germany
Registered: Mar 2005

posted February 17, 2011 02:14 PM

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Hi Lee,

great film about Polavision. I would love to embed your film on www.schmalfilm.de but you disabled this function on YouTube. I tried to mail you to ask for permission but you disabled this function, too. So, this is my only chance to get into contact with you. Let me know if you would allow it. My e-mail: redaktion(..at..)schmalfilm.biz

Juergen

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
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posted February 17, 2011 03:01 PM

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The Polavision debacle is similar in many ways to the earlier Pathescope 9.5mm Duplex film fiasco of the 1950's. You have to think that if the marketing people had really known their stuff neither of these incredibly expensive R&D projects would have ever seen the light of day. Like I said earlier, if the marketing people had spent some time talking with people like us, the users of cine films, we could have saved them not only a whole bunch of money, but in both case their actual companie's! [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

--------------------
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Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Bryan Chernick
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posted February 17, 2011 03:13 PM

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Polaroid has a new instant film camera:

Polaroid 300

The pictures are tiny, is this another bad idea?

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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posted February 17, 2011 06:02 PM

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I've heard that Polavision was the personal quest of Dr. Land and his marketing people actually told him it was a turkey. I remember a quote from one of them that even if they'd taken the home movie market entirely it only represented about 2% of the total photography market and still wouldn't be worth the time and money they put into Polavision.

Much like Henry Ford in his day Land didn't have to listen to them. Henry Ford built Model Ts years after people stopped wanting them, Land built an inferior home movie system that was obsolete before it was designed.

That's often the problem when a company is led by a successful entrepreneur: sooner or later he'll head down the wrong road and not be willing to listen to the kids riding in the back.

"How can I be WRONG?"

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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David Michael Leugers
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posted February 17, 2011 10:28 PM

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What may be missing in the story today was the incredible hype and anticipation of this instant movie system. Super 8 gurus like Lenny Lipton were very much looking forward to this and so was I. What came out was another thing. I remember rushing over to the local big camera store that had them first. When I saw the system and how it worked, I passed. Especially due to the limitations that were not divulged as I remember until the units were actually in stores... and it was not cheap!

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Live Free or Die

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Claus Harding
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posted February 17, 2011 10:45 PM

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Great posts, and what a story.

Lee, the film you posted looks (rather marvelously) like a cross between 8mm and a silent movie from about 1905. As John Davis points out, the terribly uneven images surely must have come from the poorly distributed "instant" developer.

It was film that wanted to be video....

Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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posted February 18, 2011 10:08 AM

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Very unfortunate of course that Polaroid took Eumig down with them. Up to that point Eumig had been a prospering Company.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Lee Mannering
Film God

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From: The Projection Box
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posted February 18, 2011 03:21 PM

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One thing is certain.. Eumig were in a great deal of financial trouble long before Polavision.

Good to see everyone interested on the system so much so I am digging out more footage and will also reveal the inside on the machine..

Juergen. I am working in my spare time on a more in depth video clip so will forward details of that one when its complete. Might as well do the job right.

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Douglas Meltzer
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posted February 18, 2011 04:28 PM

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David's mention of Lenny Lipton reminded me of his review in Super-8 Filmaker. For reference purposes, here it is from the July/August 1977 issue:

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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John Davis
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posted February 18, 2011 04:32 PM

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I think Eumig were in a similar position as a lot of European manufacturers at the time. Faced with the burgeoning home video market they failed miserably to anticipate how quickly the punters would adopt video and desert cine. Even the likes of Bauer didn't keep up with the mass market and, if my memory serves me right, pushed out a badged video camera.

If you look around now the only recognisable camcorder manufacturer from the cine heydays is Canon. And other brands such as Panasonic and JVC have managed to reinvent themselves as purveyors of 'movie' cameras.

Eumig being a giant manufacturer had a lot further to fall.

Added:

Doug, great post. On the strength of this article I'm even more surprised that full scale production got the nod!

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