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Topic: Leasing Films

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 09, 2005 10:07 PM

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Anybody remember the leasing deal with the Chaplin feature films like 'Modern Times' and 'the Great Dictator'? I remember seeing this being offered in the Blackhawk catalogues back in the 1980's. The deal was that you paid up front for the full price of the film, which gave you the right to own the film for about 7 years, after which you promised to return the film. You had to sign a formal lease agreement. Strange but true. Anybody else remeber this, and I wonder if anybody actually sent the films back when the lease expired! Somehow I doubt it!

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Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 10, 2005 03:56 AM

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I remember it well! I was a longtime customer of BH -still couldn't get them to send me leasehold films Paul!Members can read about this arrangement in Gerald McKee's book,Film Collecting. [Smile]

[Smile]

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Trevor

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Dimitrios Kremalis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 129
From: Athens - Greece
Registered: Oct 2004

posted November 10, 2005 04:43 AM

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Trevor,
Can you check your pm please?
You've got a message [Wink]

[Wink]

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Andreas Eggeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 467
From: R.I.P.
Registered: Aug 2003

posted November 10, 2005 05:54 AM

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I read in an old german ATLAS-Catalogue (1979), that
- Modern Times
- Goldrush
- The Great Dictator
and City Lights
were offered for leasing.
Ending 31. August 1986

But in 1980 Piccolo Film offered these complete features without
leasing agreement.

Andreas

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Kurt Gardner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 193
From: San Antonio, TX
Registered: Aug 2005

posted November 10, 2005 08:58 AM

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Yes, I remember it was due to an arrangement with Chaplin's estate. He kept a tight grip on all of his work throughout his life, and even afterwards his heirs maintained control. That's why that had that bizarre "lease" rather than an outright purchase.

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Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 10, 2005 02:12 PM

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Nothing there Dimitri! regards,Trev

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Trevor

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 10, 2005 04:36 PM

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From a 1977 Blackhawk catalog:

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 10, 2005 11:01 PM

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What I'm wondering is if anyone ever got a summons from RBC to actually send back their prints. I sincerely doubt it. If they had and leasees did NOT send back their goods, the cost in litigation to attempt to seize all the prints out there would have sunk them financially.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 10, 2005 11:17 PM

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Here's a closer look at the agreement. This lease was good till 8/91. At that point you either had to return the print or present a notarized certificate that you've destroyed(!) the film.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 11, 2005 12:28 AM

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Silly game in the US...

But can we now SUE the Company (rbc) since we are WILLING to return the films but they are no longer there??! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 11, 2005 08:47 AM

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I think it is interesting that you never see these Chaplin titles on any used film lists or ebay. I wonder what happened to them all. Are collectors still hoarding them or were they all in fact returned to Blackhawk at the end of the lease period? I kind of doubt the latter, unless Blackhawk threatened legal action to get them back. As for destroying the films in front of a notary public, that is the funniest thing I have heard this week! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

Almost like a Bob Newhart routine-" Good Morning Are you a certified Notary Public. Good. Well I wonder If I could come down to your office and set fire to some movies............."

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Dimitrios Kremalis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 129
From: Athens - Greece
Registered: Oct 2004

posted November 11, 2005 10:44 AM

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Paul,
Take a look at Paul Foster's site. He's got Gold Rush for sale, in case you are interested.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted November 11, 2005 07:25 PM

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Question is, is Paul Foster's copy the 1925 version or the 1942 one... I know the 1925 version (with piano soundtrack) sold twice on eBay, and I was the winner on one of the two auctions. Yet the print listed on the lease form is the 1942 version... [Confused]

[Confused]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted September 15, 2006 10:49 PM

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Doug,

I recall going into
Willoughby/Peerless Camera
store in Manhattan, and viewing
all of those rare RBC Chaplin
products.

By the time that the lease
agreement was due, the
company was out of business
for many years.
I am sure that not one
print was ever returned.

Dimitrios, I own City Lights
and the quality is comparible
to what is viewed. Keep in mind that
it is always more enjoyable as
a motion picture, then as a
frame grab.

Otherwise, the 16mm RBC rental library
prints were similar.

I recall renting Modern Times
from an exclusive RBC rental catalog
around 1977. The timing/(grading)
on the Derann 8mm prints manufactured
today - surpass the lab work supervised
under Chaplins estate during the '70's.

After Chaplin had garnered
his honorary Oscar, these features
were later released during the '70's
in 35mm in the USA.

Michael

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1375
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003

posted September 16, 2006 01:56 PM

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I'm burning my prints right now as we speak......

.....Oops- Got to run, fire spreading to Derann prints....

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 963
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted September 17, 2006 08:24 PM

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Did anyone on this forum actually return or destroy one of these prints?

Notice how I am not asking the reverse of this question; don't want anyone to get into trouble!

David

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