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Author Topic: Marketing prints
Peter Berrett
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Boronia, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Jul 2006

- posted July 23, 2006 09:21 AM      Profile for Peter Berrett   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Berrett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi all

In my searching for 8mm films I have discovered a curious sort of beast - the "Marketing Film".

I can only guess what these are - I presume some sort of condensed version of a film used for some form of marketing.

I noticed also that one marketing film advertised talked about it being on thinner stock which suggests that it may be more fragile.

Can someone explain what a marketing film is, the pros and cons of them, whether they use different film stock, whether they fade differently and whether they are any good for splicing with other bits and pieces to make full length features?

Thanks Peter

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

- posted July 23, 2006 10:01 AM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You're misunderstanding the term "marketing film" as there isn't one. [Wink] "Marketing" is more of a brand name, like "Derann film" or "Piccolo film" or what-have-you. A number of companies such as Castle, Universal, Columbia and, well, Marketing released tons of digests of popular features, most often a 400ft. condensed version of the full story line (as opposed to a simple extract which shows a part of a feature uncut).
The thinner film stock that's mentioned is what most collectors call estar or mylar film, it's simply film on a polyester base instead of a triacetate one. While it is indeed thinner, it's MUCH stronger than acetate. You will not be able to tear it apart with your fingers, for one thing. Because of its different chemical makeup it is also immune to the dreaded vinegar syndrome VS (which is the eventual consequence of a slow chemical breakdown of acetate-base films over time).
Polyester and acetate films differ in their base only, not the emulsion, so they are the same in terms of color fading and image quality - that depends on the emulsion actually used (Eastman, LPP, Agfa, Fuji, etc.). They cannot be spliced with cement, only with tape. You can of course splice polyester films together, but intersplicing them with acetate stock is a bad idea since the image will then go in and out of focus due to the different film thicknesses - unless you have one of the rare projectors that have the film pressure plate on the lamp side rather than the lens side (such as the Beaulieu 708 or some Noris models).

I'm sure other members will have more to add, but this is a start. [Smile]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

- posted July 23, 2006 01:37 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Doctor Jan for the scientifical explanation. [Wink]

Peter: Marketing was a German based company which released a LOT of titles worldwide: 200ft extracts, 400ft, 800ft, 1200ft and 1600ft digests as well as feature films. Mostly films from Paramount Pictures. The Godfather I & II, Saturday Night Fever, Grease, King Kong (76), Star Trek, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Chinatown, Barbarella, War of the Worlds are some of the most commonly found films. Some titles were available in some countries only. Marketing International took care of the releases in English, French and Spanish. The later low fade, poly stock is top notch. Colours on my cutdown of Raiders are absolutely vivid.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 23, 2006 07:54 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Peter,

-

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

- posted July 24, 2006 06:46 AM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know why, but some Marketing films were known for being printed on some stock that was thinner than most polyester stocks, which is why some of their releases can be found spliced on to surprisingly few reels. I recall one or two dealers telling me that they had customers complaining about how little film there appeared to be on their 400' reels, even though the footage was about average!

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Adrian Winchester

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 24, 2006 07:01 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Adrian, I think you are right in what you say. There are some marketing prints which are obviously on very thin base poly. It's a bit like the film stock used for some Airline prints, these also tended to be on thinner than normal stock.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Barry Johnson
Master Film Handler

Posts: 358
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2003

- posted July 24, 2006 07:04 AM      Profile for Barry Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Furthermore,they were very prone to turning magenta,even if properly stored.

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Standard8 rules!!

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 25, 2006 04:37 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My understanding has always been that Marketing used Fuji Single 8 stock.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006

- posted July 25, 2006 07:00 AM      Profile for Joerg Polzfusz   Author's Homepage   Email Joerg Polzfusz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

here's a scan of the 1980/81-catalogue from "marketing-film international" (*sigh*...look at all those complete versions...):
http://www.super-8-hobby.de/k-mfinter80.htm

Marketing was even advertising that 3*110m of their films should fit onto a single 240m-reel due to the used polyester filmstock (at the bottom of the page, German only):
http://www.super-8-hobby.de/k-mf81.htm

Jörg

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Peter Berrett
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Boronia, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Jul 2006

- posted July 25, 2006 07:35 AM      Profile for Peter Berrett   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Berrett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Has anyone here bought the German or Italian versions and rerecorded the soundtrack for English? (or at least put the English soundtrack on the second strip?)

Also I have noticed a few versions of Grease sold as 'Brilliantina" What did Brilliantina mean?

I hope Marketing brought out a version of the Good the Bad and the Ugly - that would be awesome. With condensation it would still be several hours long [Smile]

cheers Peter

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

- posted July 25, 2006 08:16 AM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
'Brilliantina' is simply the Italian title for 'Grease', that's all. [Smile]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Peter Berrett
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Boronia, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Jul 2006

- posted July 25, 2006 08:48 AM      Profile for Peter Berrett   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Berrett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Come to think of it it does sound like Brillcream... (hair grease)

Regards Peter

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Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006

- posted July 25, 2006 08:53 AM      Profile for Joerg Polzfusz   Author's Homepage   Email Joerg Polzfusz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Also I have noticed a few versions of Grease sold as 'Brilliantina" What did Brilliantina mean?
That catalogue is a multi-language one for all three major languages spoken in Northern America: English (USA+Canada), French (Canada) and Spanish (Mexico - I don't know if the films have been distributed in any country south of Mexico). Hence some of the films do have three different titles. (I wonder how they managed not to confuse the three different soundtracks when all they films did have the same order-numbers.)

BTW: Some of these films have been distributed in Europe with a German/French/English/Spanish soundtrack as well, e.g. "Once upon a time in the west", "Grease" or "Barracuda". It sometimes looks like this applies to all films that haven't been marked as "USA/Canada only". But unfortunately these plans have been interrupted by some creepy VHS-tapes. [Frown]

Jörg

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 26, 2006 02:43 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've replaced the German soundtrack on the 2x400ft 'Rollerball' with a stereo english track. Excellent cut down that one.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Peter Berrett
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Boronia, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Jul 2006

- posted July 26, 2006 04:42 AM      Profile for Peter Berrett   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Berrett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John

Do you find that you get a screech or some other sound artifact at the point in the strip where you commence or cease recording? This happens when you record using a cassette recorder - I wonder whether the same thing happens when dubbing a new soundtrack onto the second strip and you repeatedly stop and start recording?

Maybe it is better to digitally do the necessary editing on the computer and then record all in one go?

Regards Peter

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 26, 2006 08:43 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No I don't get a screech. The best solution is to edit the video first and then record the correctly edited track onto the film but I didn't have that possibility in those days. I actually did it for a friend and before handing the finished film over recorded the soundtrack to minidisc. I then tracked down a copy myself and recorded the minidisc track onto the film. Not as easy as it sounds as the copy I got had two sequences where a couple of frames were missing but it turned out okay in the end. Rollerball certainly works very well with a nice stereo track.

Projectors don't like all the backwards and forwards this method of re-recording entails so be prepared to write-off a machine or two if you do a lot of this sort of thing.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

- posted July 27, 2006 06:02 AM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,
Marketing definitely used Agfa at times. I have a 'War of the Worlds' 400' with great colour and I was recently surprised to see Agfa indicated on the stock. On the other had, I used to have the feature of the same film and it was badly faded, but I didn't check the stock.

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Adrian Winchester

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted July 27, 2006 06:34 AM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I`ve only seen kodak sp and agfa on markettings, never fuji myself unfortunately.
The UK ones on agfa seem to hold up better than some of the german stuff on it strangely.
best mark.

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Paul Suchy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 199
From: Westchester, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 28, 2006 12:21 AM      Profile for Paul Suchy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Suchy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Marketing's triple digest of "Godfather 2" doesn't contain a single scene with Robert DeNiro (yet he's listed on the Marketing print credits). Does anyone know if the 400' Selected Scene edition has any footage of the DeNiro stuff?

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Paul Suchy

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Andreas Eggeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 467
From: R.I.P.
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted July 28, 2006 02:09 AM      Profile for Andreas Eggeling     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Life is far too short.

[ August 08, 2008, 02:50 AM: Message edited by: Andreas Eggeling ]

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Peter Berrett
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Boronia, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Jul 2006

- posted July 28, 2006 04:18 AM      Profile for Peter Berrett   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Berrett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
AT some point I will want to buy a copy of 'Grease' (Brilliantina). It sounds like buying an english language version would be a bit of a risk but a German Marketing print would be a safer bet.

Regards Peter

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Andreas Eggeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 467
From: R.I.P.
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted July 28, 2006 05:49 AM      Profile for Andreas Eggeling     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Peter,

the german "Grease" prints are german subtitled during the songs.

I have had US-market versions of "Prophecy", 400 version and a third part from the 3x400er. They were printed on that thinner stock from the german lab. I am sure you will find also a Grease version with english sound on that thinner stock. Ask what a reel contains.
a 120m (400ft)reel shows about 75m (250ft).
The reel is grey, made by Posso, France.

Andreas

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