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Author
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Topic: Blackhawk's Bohemian Girl (L&H)
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Norman Fisher
Junior
Posts: 18
From: Irvine, CA USA
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted September 03, 2006 11:32 AM
Not long ago picked up this Blackhawk print 4x400 in Super 8 sound on Ebay for $45.00. I was the only bidder. Interestingly enough, underneath the 4 reels in the box was the original Blackhawk invoice, and proof of purchase. As well as the Credit Card receipt of the gentleman's order! He paid $69.99 for the print and this was dated 10/27/75. It brought back many memories for me, as this was around the time I was originally purchasing from Blackhawk myself. (74-79) Anyway, my question is for other members of the board that have this print from Blackhawk. The first 3 reels look great, and the sound is nice and clear. However the 4th reel is another story. The print turns VERY DARK, sometimes flashing bright and dark, and then completely going black, so much so you can't see anything going on the screen. It's absolute pitch black. I was very surprised the original purchaser did not complain and send it back. I know it did not turn this way over the years. I have never heard of a print turning black with age. And it's only in the 4th reel. Does anyone else have a problem with this film? I am glad I didn't pay much more for this on Ebay as the seller never disclosed the 4th reel was unwatchable. Did I just get a bad print or is this Blackhawk's normal practice for this title?
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Norman Fisher
Junior
Posts: 18
From: Irvine, CA USA
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted September 03, 2006 04:31 PM
Thanks for moving the post Kevin..
Craig: Yes I did clean it with Filmrenew, and it's still the same. I have never had luck with L&H features from Blackhawk. I purchased OUR RELATIONS in 1975, and the first reel had sound dropouts, so I returned for exchange. (Which they were always great about doing) My print of WAY OUT WEST I bought in 1976 is very fuzzy, and the faces are almost washed out in white----all except the last reel which is absolutely perfect.I have heard several complaints about the quality of WOW from Blackhawk, so it's probably like that on most of the prints. Then last year I got BLOCKHEADS from Ebay, and the 3rd reel on that one is not as bright in contrast as the first two. It's very dim, but not as bad as THE BOHEMIAN GIRL, which you can't even see the faces, or even the body movements! I think Blackhawk had major issues with the L&H features back in the day. The quality of the shorts they sold were much better. I wonder how the Walton L&H features compared to the Blackhawk versions?
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Norman Fisher
Junior
Posts: 18
From: Irvine, CA USA
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted September 04, 2006 12:44 AM
Michael, I agree with Kevin and it's indeed a defective print. Not sure about it being an 'answer print' though. As to the original prices, keep in mind this was 1975 when the print was originally purchased, as indicated on the invoice found at the bottom of the box under the reels. Blackhawk's prices were still fairly reasonable at that time. I saved many of my Blackhawk catalogs from the early 70's, and I found this particular title featured in the December 1975 issue as part of the 20% off Comedy sale. BOHEMIAN GIRL originally sold for $86.98 at this time, but the special sale made it $68.88, which fits in at the same time this chap I bought it from on Ebay purchased his print. A 16mm print of the same title could be had for $143.00, marked down from $179.00! Only wish I had a scanner, I could photo copy the ad.
BLOTTO is listed in the DECEMBER 1975 catalog at the regular price of $49.98. The 2 reeler talkies go for $32.98. The $69.99 you mentioned for BLOTTO sounds more like their post 1977 pricing. Blackhawk's prices increased dramatically over the next few years, and I was forced to purchase less and less films from them as a result due to limited funds at the time.
Again, I am surprised this guy never returned such a defective print. This may sound like a stupid question, but didn't Blackhawk spot check the films before sending them out?
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted September 04, 2006 01:15 AM
quote:
Which is not to say that
it may have been one of
Blackhawks sale items.
I figured it could have also been
a sale item too.
Thanks for confirming
the Blotto pricing in 1975.
I was told that the best prints
were from some negs in 1979.
But I can only see that in 16mm
prints and not in the 8mm line,
because it is easier to check the
Kodak date code on the sprocket side of
the 16mm film stock.
I had purchased used Blackhawk copies of
Chickens Come Home, One Good Turn,
and Any Old Port. These prints are
stunning and as close to 35mm quality
that I have ever seen in a
Super 8 Sound Blackhawk release.
As I mentioned in an earlier post,
the Standard 8mm silent Blackhawk
material rivaled the 16mm releases
I would even compare it to Ken Films
The Devils Brother, and find that these
are if not equivalent, but even superior
to the Devil's Brother in contrast,
due to the high silver content in
the stock.
It seemed that Blackhawk at times
produced awful 8mm dupes from
their own material, which
yielded disappointing results.
I was informed that when it was
necessary, they even
scored the tracks for the 8mm sound
released from 16mm optical sound
prints.
Other than that, I also happen to
own a Standard 8mm sound print of:
On the Wrong Trek.
If it were not for the one sided
magnetic track, the picture would be
practically perfect with sharp quality
and rich silver content in the contrast.
Unfortunately, the fourth reel has the
most action and comedy.
Michael
--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted September 06, 2006 02:54 PM
Gary,
This leads me to believe that the
best quality prints depending upon title,
were manufactured at different times between the 1960's - '70's.
To some collectors, they believe that Blackhawk
made the best, if not overall consistant
quality around 1979, using the best lab, and the
best quality negs.
Blackhawks release of Chase's
- The Nickle Nurser
suffers in quality in the super 8
and 16 prints. They are just too gray in
apperance. It leads me to conclude that
Blackhawk duped the best quality
Film Classics Print and then made
their release copies from it.
You can tell this in looking at
identical prints and the same
inherent properties exist in
side by side comparison prints.
I have an original Film Classics
16mm on Nickle Nurser, and it is
stunning. As you know, all
16mm Film Classics prints are
not always the best quality.
To what I understand, Blackhawk
gained many if not all of thier
material from Film Classics.
The latter 1950's 16mm Film
Classic Releases were made better
than many of the earlier prints
which were struck during the
1940's. What is most curious,
is that these 1950 prints were
made here for Regal Television
and they were dupes, from
The Film Classic Material.
![[Confused]](confused.gif) If that is not confusing,
then also here in America, they were duped
again, by Walter Reade, and the Walter
Reade Prints suffer tremendously in quality.
If its not the picture, then it is in the
sound track.
Again the Walter Reade Print of Midnight Patrol
has so-so to poor picture quality, and there
is hiss in the sound track. However the
background LeRoy Reams sound track is more audible
and less mute than what is found in the
Blackhawk and Film Classics Release prints.
I have a Standard 8mm Sound of Sons of the Desert.
It has sharp quality, but the image is gray. (1971)
On the other hand, I have an identical release printed
sometime after 1979, and it has deep
contrast but it lacks the sharpness in picture quality.
Thus, imager quality problems exist
in both formats, when collecting
Laurel and Hardy.
Interestingly, the prints of Going Bye Bye,
are stunning. Likely so, the identical 16 Film Classics
releases, printed on Kodak stock have such deep silver content and
beautiful contrast, that every pore on
Walter Long's tough complexion face is
noticeable. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) WOW!
What makes the hobby so interesting,
is that in searching for a print
collectors can go through many
prints until the right one comes
along. I had a friend that went through
'10' 16mm Music Box prints, until the
best one came along.
Michael
--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!
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![[Frown]](frown.gif)
What are the odds of this!!?? Didn't new owners come into play with Blackhawk in 1975? Maybe the loss of quality in the product was a result of the ownership change. Either way, I agree the shorts are generally superb quality with few exceptions, but every feature I purchased from them has major issues. Gary kind of confirmed this when he too noted he had similar problems with their feature prints.
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