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Topic: Calling All Experts - Need Help

Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 01, 2007 02:02 AM

Okay.... I set up my CHINON and thread a Chilly Willy cartoon ("Yukon Have It") and the sound is all warbly. Now what's funny is that my 16mm print of the same title has sound that is warbly, too which is why I got the S8 version in the first place. Ok, then my daughter wants to see "Gabby's Diner" and, again, the sound is somewhat warbly. So, now I'm assuming that the sound head is probably crapping out on the unit. We then decide we're going to watch my digest of "A&C Go To Mars" (I know it's their worst fim, but my 3 year old loooves it). Well, during "Go To Mars" the sound is flawless - I mean purrrrfect. AAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH! I don't get it! Is it the sound head? Is it shrunken film (if the first two were shrunk wouldn't the prints chatter? Which they didn't - they were rock steady)? How likely is it that two copies of the same title - in different guages no less - both have warbly sound? Okay, gents......Help! I'm losing my mind..........!

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 963
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted January 01, 2007 11:55 PM

Hi Brad, before we get too technical, it may well be that your leader is hesitating on the second (or sound) sprocket causing a loop that is too large. This happened to a Chinon 9000 I had every now and then and also my first Elmo ST 1200. Next time it happens see if you can check that the film is threaded correctly.

I always trim the ends with the trimmer to ensure it is exactly the right shape the projector manufacturer recommends. The same thing can sometimes happen on 16mm projectors too.

Good luck.

David

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 02, 2007 12:59 AM

Thanks, David. I always make sure the leader has a rounded edge to it which is what most 8mm projector manuals recommend. Your second loop theory could be right, but is it likely it would occur with 3 different titles?

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 02, 2007 05:36 AM

It could be the age of the film and the film stock its printed on.

Try treating those films with some film lube/cleaner such as Film Guard or Filmrenew. Doing this often cures all sorts of running issues.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted January 02, 2007 07:03 AM

Happy New Year !
A little question. What film cleaners can be purchased now I wonder and from where ?
I heard one UK dealer was selling a cleaner which was made up from Johnsons Wax and Isoprop for instance.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 02, 2007 09:54 AM

I have to say that I personally dont like the isoprop based cleaners/lubes as they can dry out Acetate film base causing warpage. They are ok with mylar based stock.

Calssic Home Cinema stock Cresclean and Paul Foster now stocks Filmguard.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted January 02, 2007 11:22 AM

I have to agree with Kevin on this one. i have found that certain film stocks just are not projector friendly, depending on the particular projector.

There is a certian quality of eastman film stock, (the absolute worst, on which a number of the 400ft Disney releases and nearly all walter lantz cartoons were printed on) that not only do not like my projector, (and mines a Eumig!), but scratch incredibly easy!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted January 03, 2007 05:45 AM

Dipping the film is worth trying, I've saved a few reels with this method.
Pour some Film Renew or Film Guard in a clean film can - Rewind film on a metal spool - Dip film on metal spool in FR or FG for a few minutes (use latex gloves...) - take sppol out and let it drip, then, place it in another dry clean tin can and seal it - Let it rest for a good month, flip the can every week - Take the spool out and let it rest under a dry clean cloth for a few days - Give it a good wipe when rewinding it to original spool.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Carlos Plaza
Junior
Posts: 22
From: Setauket, NY USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted January 03, 2007 08:37 AM

I am not an expert on revitalizing movie film, but I do handle lots of it. I have been led to believe (source can be provided in a private email) that using Filmrenew on magnetic sound films can loosen the magnetic stripe. It has been also recommended that I use Ecco VSF 299 for magnetic films instead. Filmrenew is great for silent films or films with optical soundtracks. I cannot take risks with other people's film. If anyone's experience has been different, please let me know. Great forum...Happy new year everyone!

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Jose Artiles
Master Film Handler

Posts: 357
From: Spain
Registered: Oct 2005

posted January 03, 2007 07:12 PM

Hi dear friends!
Jean Marc,I´m absolutely agree with the way you recomended.I´ll want to contribute with a tip we use in our film library:
please when you put the film on the metal spool try to rewind it in "b" way(thats is,with the emulsion looking to outside)and a very little tight,that work wonderfull and make miracles on the image because contribute very well to let the film very plain adapting perfectly to the film gate for a excellent focus in your next projection of the movie.

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As Steven Spielberg says....
Nothing beats old school projection. Digital is just an imitation.

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Dan Lail
Film God