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Author Topic: ST1200HD question
Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 18, 2007 09:28 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Upon inspecting my machines I have 2 I noticed on the shutter of one that it has a piece of stainless steel screwed to it and the other does not was there a reason for this? I am trying to upload some picture to show if not i will email them to who ever can help.

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jim schrader
"Let's see 電o I have that title already?"

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 21, 2007 09:21 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
appaerntly no one cares

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jim schrader
"Let's see 電o I have that title already?"

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted May 21, 2007 11:39 AM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jim,

When you say on the shutter wheel do you mean around the edge. Because someone may have removed the rubber strip which melts and replaced it with a bit of metal so it runs at the correct speed. Just an idea.

Graham

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Hans van der Sloot
Master Film Handler

Posts: 425
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2005


 - posted May 21, 2007 11:47 AM      Profile for Hans van der Sloot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Jim,

Can you upload some pictures, so I can compare it with mine ST-1200HD?

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 21, 2007 12:32 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have tried to post pictures but it never works i get this message "Your login has failed! Please check your username and password and try again.
well if i am able to post this message how can my login fail?
i will email you both the pictures

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jim schrader
"Let's see 電o I have that title already?"

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 21, 2007 02:16 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi

I think Gramham is right on that guess. I have an ST1200HD with optical that seems to run slow. It does not have the rubber on the shutter - it does not seem to have some type of replacement ring for the rubber that melts. One way to look also is the sound drum. There are two types of brass attachments of the sound drum. One type is flat right where the phillips screw mounts and holds it tight to the flywheel shaft. The other is deep inside just a bit compared to where the screw holds it to the shaft. This is hard to explain and maybe understand, but that's the best I can tell you.

CG

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 21, 2007 02:39 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello all, this plate is attached to the flat side of the shutter this shutter originally had the rubber which melted while watching a film i managed to shut it down before it got to messy and clean it up and remove the rest of the rubber from the shutter it runs fine bt needs a small adjustment for the 18fps which is maybe why the rubber was put on in the first place?

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jim schrader
"Let's see 電o I have that title already?"

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 21, 2007 04:14 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Jim Elmo produced some of the ST1200HD's with the rubber so its not been added by anyone else.

I cant make out what this part is that you are describing [Confused]

To put pics on the forum you must use exactly the same username and password you use each time you log onto the forum.

If you have any more problems then email the images to me and I'll put them up here for you. super8 at mrelmo do co dot uk

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 21, 2007 06:04 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
kevin i have email these pictures to you also hope these help

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jim schrader
"Let's see 電o I have that title already?"

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Hans van der Sloot
Master Film Handler

Posts: 425
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2005


 - posted May 22, 2007 02:19 AM      Profile for Hans van der Sloot   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I got some pictures from Jim and will put them here.
It seems you have a adjustable shutter in your Elmo.

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 22, 2007 08:22 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
why would one use this?

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jim schrader
"Let's see 電o I have that title already?"

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 22, 2007 04:54 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In theory, of course............

With 35mm projectors, there is usually a way to adjust the shutter timing to reduce "ghosting." These simple fixes on theater machines is nothing more than a knurled knob with an indicator point. When the problem is severe, then access to the blade with more accurrate adjustment can be performed. On a theater machine (again 35mm) you advance the picture frame 1/2 way down on the movement stroke (i.e. film claw to the 4 perf movie frame). On the Century "C" and "J" line of machines, a knotch on one blade of the shutter was aligned to a indicator point inside the sight glass of the picture head.

"Ghosting" - is when the shutter is not fully closed as the picture frame advances at the rate of 18 or 24FPS. Because the light is exposed and the film is advancing, the movement of the still frame is streaking. Bright street lamps for example, would appear to have alittle of that light directly above them. Sort of a trick to the eye vision - such as perfectly round circles (such as lab cues in the upper right hand corner) are naturally round but when projected with scope lenses they are vertically egg shaped.

Only when the shutter is 100% open at precisely the same time that the frame of film is 100% frozen in time will you not have ghosting.

As I said in theory this might have been a prototype adjustable shutter blade in your ST1200 and if I am right about this I would say this is a marvelous thing they put in to such a great machine.

But I would speculate here and please DO NOT go try to adjust it especially when this kind of thing represents shutter blocking light while the frame advances. In this manner adjusting this would NOT repeat NOT pick up the speed of your machine. If slower speed is a problem, then you need to address why it is running slow.

I would assume that (1) kevin Faulkner could address the reasons of your shutter blade in the ST1200HD; and that (2) Brad Miller could enlighten all of us alittle more on Ghosting but I do feel I have part of that right in the explanation.

Regards,

Chip G

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 22, 2007 08:32 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
thanks chip i had no plans on moving it [Smile] just curious why one had it and not the other arethere date codes on these machines to tell when they were manufactured?

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jim schrader
"Let's see 電o I have that title already?"

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 23, 2007 04:44 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
As I said to Jim in a PM to him direct I have never seen this on an ST1200HD before so cant say if its one that Elmo included or was put on by someone else.
Your explanation of ghosting is spot on Chip but you wouldn't have to go to these lengths on the 1200 unless this shutter has been designed with slightly narrower blades to let more light through.

Jim can you see if these blades are narrower than on your non modified machine?
I take it this machine still has 3 blades or does it have 2?

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 23, 2007 08:55 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let me look at hese again to make sure

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jim schrader
"Let's see 電o I have that title already?"

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Joerg Niggemann
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 127
From: Germany
Registered: May 2006


 - posted May 23, 2007 03:34 PM      Profile for Joerg Niggemann   Email Joerg Niggemann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The "adjustable shutter" seems to be an original Elmo part. I saw it in another ST1200 D, but I can't imagine any technical reason because the second shutter blade is fixed to the first one.

Most Bauer machines have a variable second shutter. The first one is optimized for a maximum light output in forward mode. Because of the phase difference of claw and film movement between backward/forward mode, the "forward-optimized" shutter has to be closed for a longer time when projecting backwards to avoid ghosting. This is achieved by the second shutter which is applied in backward mode only.

Joerg

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted May 27, 2007 12:41 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting, but considering the speed the shutter is rotating at, would this not put the shutter out of balance with a resulting vibration felt through out the projector.

Graham.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 27, 2007 10:36 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jim

What is your machine serial number?

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Tony

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 27, 2007 05:06 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
406157

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jim schrader
"Let's see 電o I have that title already?"

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted May 28, 2007 01:07 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham: both the fixed and variable parts of the shutter are balanced (each has 3 narrow blades that can either match to let more light through or partially overlap to form wider areas of coverage=more time for the claw pull-down to occur)... so no, mass imbalances and thus vibration do not occur.

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 29, 2007 08:49 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
so by adjusting this one would not be able to do any telecine transfers?

[ May 30, 2007, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: Jim Schrader ]

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jim schrader
"Let's see 電o I have that title already?"

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Don Huber
Junior
Posts: 9
From: California
Registered: May 2007


 - posted May 29, 2007 11:46 PM      Profile for Don Huber   Email Don Huber   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Finally can post! Hello to all. Got my dad's St1200hd. Sucker has hardly been used but wasn't working, belts were rotten. I was hoping to get it to transfer my family's film to dvd So I got a hold of a person that sold belts. He said there was a pot inside that could be adjusted so I bought all new belts and replaced them only to find out that the pot did not exist and that this unit was a no go for speed adjustment. Bummer. Got the goo still on my fingers from two weeks ago. LOL
Aside from all that, My unit appears to have this type of shutter wheel as well. Serial no. is 406765.

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