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Topic: CINDERELLA doubt...

Flavio Stabile
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Roma, Italia
Registered: Feb 2005

posted June 11, 2007 10:22 AM

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Does anybody know if there exist more than one print of this feature? I mean, with different quality of colors?
I recently bought a second hand copy, but the colors are not so good as usual as the other Derann prints (i.e SNOW WHITE, PETER PAN, THE SWORD IN THE STONE, etc.)
It seems there a very light red presence.

thanks in advance for any reply.

Flavio

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Barry Attwood
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posted June 11, 2007 11:16 AM

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Flavio,

The Derann print is excellent, unfortunately there are some other prints around, these were quick knock offs from the 1970's, and came from your part of the world, but the genuine Derann print is lovely, so if you can get one of those you will not be dissapointed.

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Gary Crawford
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posted June 11, 2007 02:35 PM

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Have to agree ..the Derann print is really nice...with full rich color palette.

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Flavio Stabile
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From: Roma, Italia
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posted June 12, 2007 11:21 AM

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Sorry, perhaps I was not clear... Mine is a Derann print, but the colors are a bit faded to red... Do I own the only Derann copy in this condition?

Flavio

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Barry Attwood
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posted June 12, 2007 04:06 PM

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Flavio,

Did you actually buy it direct from Derann, or has someone put the pirated print into Derann boxes, because all the Derann "Cinderella" prints should be on low fade stock.

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Adrian Winchester
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From: Croydon, London, UK
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posted June 12, 2007 05:31 PM

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I'd suggest:
a) checking that it's on polyestar stock. If it's not, it can't be a Derann Release.
b) Closely checking the leaders.

Even if pre-LPP Eastman had still been around when this title was released by Derann, it would not have had time to fade yet!

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Adrian Winchester

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Joerg Polzfusz
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posted June 13, 2007 03:41 AM

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quote:
checking that it's on polyestar stock. If it's not, it can't be a Derann Release.

Really? I always thought that some of the older Derann release are on acetate?!

Jörg

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Dave Alligan
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posted June 13, 2007 04:49 AM

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No Derann prints, old or new are on acetate.

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Joerg Polzfusz
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posted June 13, 2007 05:12 AM

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Adrian Winchester siad something else in the "About Derann prints..."-thread in this forum:

quote:
Occasional non-polyester prints slipped through too; I used to have a print of the 600' version of 'The Fog' that was acetate for some reason.

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Kevin Faulkner
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From: Essex UK
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posted June 13, 2007 06:35 AM

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As far as I know all the Derann Disney's were on Agfa Polyester stock..

I'm sure the first Derann Disney release "Little Mermaid" was on Agfa but I will check tonight. None of the Disney's were on Eastman so there shouldn't be any fade.

Derann did use Eastman way back but then changed to Kodak LPP before spending many years on Agfa. Since the demise of Agfa they have gone back to the Kodak stocks. As far as I am aware the Eastman to Kodak LPP switch-over happened well before the Disney deal took place so no Disney's would be on fading stock.

Cinderella has superb colour and sound on the Derann release.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Flavio Stabile
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posted June 13, 2007 02:16 PM

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Regarding the questions:

I bought all my Derann prints only direclty from Derann and CHC and Paul Foster and I always had been told they were original Derann prints.

I'm absolutely sure it is polyester and non acetate and the leaders are typical of the Derann prints without any splice present.

Here it a scanned image of my print (2nd reel at the beginning)

I can assure all my other Derann prints are completely different in colors (even the The Little Mermaid!)

Flavio

[ June 14, 2007, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: Flavio Stabile ]

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Kevin Faulkner
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posted June 13, 2007 05:15 PM

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Flavio, My copy of Mermaid is on Agfa polyester stock. Its therefore likely that Cinderella will also be on Agfa as that was released later than Mermaid.

That scan does make it look like your print is fadeing. What edge markings have you got along the sprocket edge of the film.

My copy of Cinders is on Agfa (AG1S) with grey stripe and is slightly warmer than the norm but its not down to fade. Overall its a nice print and very sharp.

Anyway I presume you have just got this print or have you just viewed it again after some years? If you have just got the print I would suggest you send it straight back.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Adrian Winchester
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posted June 13, 2007 06:59 PM

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Joerg - That's true with regard to the early print of 'The Fog' 600' I had; in fact the film was overflowing the reel due to it not being polyestar, which isn't the case with the polyestar print I know have. However, 'The Fog' was released around the mid 1980s and I suspect that the print in question would have been one of the last Derann releases to not entirely be printed on polyestar stock. I think the release of 'Cinderella' coincided with the video release of 1995. It appears that I'm wrong in saying that it can't be a Derann print, but I should have said instead that there's no way that a Derann polyestar print from that period could have faded. I think it's far more likely that a lab error has caused a poor colour balance. I have a few films printed in the 1970s that look somewhat faded, but they looked that way when they were released!

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Adrian Winchester

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Winbert Hutahaean
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posted June 14, 2007 12:23 AM

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Man..your print is trully fading!!!

(it seems that my previous post regarding a faded "Alien" print that was offered at Ebay was a true case!)

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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John Clancy
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posted June 14, 2007 02:50 AM

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I'm with Adrian on this one - most likely a duff print.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Kevin Faulkner
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posted June 14, 2007 04:57 AM

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I think after looking at my reel two last night and that same shot that it is a little on the warm side. It looks like it's more to do with the balance by the lab or the original neg but it's certainly not print fade.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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David Pannell
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posted June 14, 2007 10:08 AM

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For what it's worth, checked my Derann print too, (bought it at the beginning of the year for our grand-daughter's birthday party). It's perfect! Not even a warm tone like Kevin's.

Send it back, I'd say, not with any malice aforethought, but just ask Derann to check it out for themselves.

Good luck. [Smile]

[Smile]

--------------------
Dave.

Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!

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Flavio Stabile
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From: Roma, Italia
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posted June 14, 2007 11:01 AM

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Thanks to everyone!

I remember now I bought it from Derann last september and I have already written to Gary explaining the situation and mentioning this topic (hoping he will read it!)

Kevin, now I'm at work but this evening I will check the edge markings along the sprocket edge of the film and let you know here.

I will also try to post some other scanned frames to let you see other movie scenes.

Flavio

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Keith Ashfield
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posted June 14, 2007 02:31 PM

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I ve just checked my print of Cinderella (reel 2) and it's perfect. Vivid colours. I don't know what stock it's on and can't find my magnifier (eyes are not what they used to be [Frown]

[Frown]

) but it's LPP with brown mag stripes. Flavio's must be a faulty print. I wouldn't think this is faded.
By the way Winbert, your wrong on ALIENS. It is not faded at all, that is the colour pallette on that particular scene, that was displayed on E-Bay photograph,(checked my print last night - perfect in every way).
Hope you get to the solution of your problem Flavio. Derann are most accomodating when it comes to problems on quality.
Regards Keith

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"We'll find 'em in the end, I promise you. We'll find 'em. Just as sure as a turnin' of the earth".

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Flavio Stabile
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posted June 14, 2007 03:39 PM

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Well, along the sprocket edge of the film I read AG3S

Here they are two other scanned frames from Cinderella

Reel 1:

Reel 3:

While instead, these are taken from Peter Pan, just as a comparison

and the second

Flavio

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Osi Osgood
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posted June 14, 2007 05:28 PM

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Flavio,

It does appear to have fade to the film, which is evident by the sprocket area. I wonder how this particular print was stored? Even LPP. can fade if stored in a very hot environment, (lets say an outdoor storage facility)

Anybody else run into any faded LPP prints? I had a print of "Who Dares Wins" which, while not horribly faded, didn't have naturalistic colours anymore, (and the edges clearly said LPP)

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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David Pannell
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posted June 15, 2007 05:42 AM

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Definitely think it's a faulty print, Flavio.

Try to get it changed if you can. It certainly shouldn't look like that - unless you're projecting with a lamp of 1 candle power - or an actual candle!!!! [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

Best,

--------------------
Dave.

Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!

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John Clancy
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posted June 15, 2007 05:53 AM

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Why is the stripe different between Cinderella and Peter Pan?

LPP stock can still suffer from fade but hopefully is a rarity. I still think it's more likely this is how the print looked. Remember all prints vary from batch to batch. They're not all going to be perfect.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Flavio Stabile
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From: Roma, Italia
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posted June 15, 2007 08:02 AM

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Well, all my movies are stored in the same place, side by side, in my hobby room where the temperature is absolutely normal. I don't know why even the magnetic stripes beetween Peter Pan and Cinderella look like different in color, but this is how they are.
Anyway I must say that Gary has just now offered to inspect the copy if I return it back to him
I remember to have got it in this condition, but only now, after a comparison with the DVD I bought last weekend I have noticed the real beautiful colors againt the ones of my Super 8 copy. I have so decided to open a topic here, asking if Cinderella had been really printed in this way, or my copy had some problem...

Flavio

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Kevin Faulkner
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posted June 15, 2007 08:37 AM

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Flavio, Thats Agfa Type 3S which is the last of the Agfa Polyester print material.

It will NOT be fade but has probably been printed like that. I will run my copy over the weekend and see how it looks mine is on Agfa 1S which means its one of the earlier Agfa Low Fade stocks.

Does your copy have brown or grey stripe?

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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