8mm Forum: What is the print that your REALLY looking for?

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 15, 2007, 10:07 AM:

I thought that if us folks out there really knew what some of us are looking for, (as our collections may be nearly complete), it might help to know what said title is :

I think my pick might be obvious to everyone associated with this forum, but here goes ...

CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND (SCOPE/FEATURE)

I have every other scope sci-fi feature that are "must haves"
on super 8 (Poltergeist/STAR WARS/Logan's Run/Alien), but this one is the "lost ark" of titles I yearn for.

There's many others that I could collect, but that's the only "must have" left.

How's about you?

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 15, 2007, 02:37 PM:

Stop trying to make me feel guilty [Wink]

Carry on features for me. K.

Posted by Jean-Christophe Deblock (Member # 792) on June 15, 2007, 02:50 PM:

Hello;

For me, THE "must have" feature is "AIRPORT"!

But, in super 8, it's absolutely impossible to have it! I think it doesn't exist.

Perhaps in 16mm... one day...

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on June 15, 2007, 05:01 PM:

I've chased the 2x400ft U8 of The Blues Brothers for many years and found it a few months ago, so now I really don't have any idea of what to look for on Super 8.
Current quest is for teasers and trailers from all of the Pixar films in 35mm.

Posted by Frank Picaro (Member # 811) on June 15, 2007, 06:04 PM:

You're not making me feel guilty, just JEALOUS! [Wink]

My 'must have' has always been THE YEARLING, with its gorgeous photography, and terrific story.

Someday, I hope. [Smile]

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on June 15, 2007, 06:46 PM:

Everyone knows what I'm after, I'm ready to buy and/or trade - Shorty

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 15, 2007, 06:58 PM:

A full length "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" would be great!

That moment at the end where Ethel Merman slips on the banana skin and falls on her butt has always warmed my heart...(especially since I became a son-in-law.)

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 15, 2007, 07:30 PM:

Steve ...

Your related to Ethel Merman? Interesting, it explains so much ....

Kevin F. I didn't even mention you. Could it be your CONSCIENCE???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

(still have the cash available Kev.)

hee hee hee heee!

(A mere mortal is not supposed to have as much fun as I)

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on June 15, 2007, 07:45 PM:

No,

Actually she's a little closer to Margaret Hamilton in the "Wizard of Oz"...

Take that as you may...

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on June 16, 2007, 06:58 AM:

For me, its.......

"FREE EATS"!

This was one of the last releases of Blackhawk's Little Rascals shorts. It was released around 1980 I think. One of my favorite LR shorts, and one of the few that I don't already own.

James.

Posted by Barry Johnson (Member # 84) on June 16, 2007, 08:12 AM:

For me its an old silent film-"TRANSCONTINENTAL LIMITED",a good old railway yarn from the silent days.

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on June 16, 2007, 10:07 AM:

KOYANNISQATSI or BARAKA full length in stereo for me.

CG

Posted by Mark Williams (Member # 794) on June 16, 2007, 12:39 PM:

KILL BILL-JAPANESE UNCUT VERSION SCOPE 6 X 400FT...Well I can dream can't I??

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 16, 2007, 01:42 PM:

Ummm,

Have we entered the realm of film prints that REALLy don't exist on Super 8mm?

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 16, 2007, 05:29 PM:

Yes Osi I think that is the case.
The problem now is that for any company such as Derann and CHC to release further titles they have to know they are going to sell a certain number of prints and with some of those titles like Chips they are probably not going to appeal to the masses so wouldn't get released.
These days they have to be titles which are repeatable otherwise collectors wont pay out the high prices for new prints. Also they have to be able to source the origination to have the negative made from. I bet some of these film studios these days don't even know what super 8 is [Frown]

let alone get origination out of them for release on super 8.

Kev.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 16, 2007, 05:36 PM:

I agree Kevin.

It must be difficult for companies like Derann, or CHC. Take for instance, "Master and Commander". Now, this title would be far more desireable for folks in the U.K. , for instance, as it's about the British heyday on the waves.

However, this title wouldn't appeal as much to those other than the U.K. however. Oh, I'm sure that those other than U.K. customers have bought it, but I would be willing to bet that most of the sales were U.K. customers.

What I would suggest for Derann and CHC is that they find
"International Friendly" feature releases, which would most certianly boost sales, even in this high cost modern era of film collecting.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on June 16, 2007, 11:17 PM:

Sticking with the original thread of what existing super 8 prints do we want, I'm still looking for Derann's cutdown of "Taste the Blood of Dracula". I also know there's a print of "Monster of Piedras Blancas" somewhere out there.

Doug

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on June 17, 2007, 02:57 AM:

Beside a print of Osi's favourite film CE3K (my favourite too!) I would like one of those elusive F/L prints in scope of "GOLD" Iver released in the late 70's, I know they are out there (rumoured to be 50 prints or less in scope), but I've yet to come accross one in all my 8mm dealings.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on June 17, 2007, 04:03 AM:

Osi, surely the subject matter of Master and Commander is not that important. The fact is it is a great film and that is all that matters. I think it's the most accurate portrayal of what it would have been like to have been on one of those vessels I have ever seen. Even if it had have featured the French as the main characters I would have still thought as much of it.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 17, 2007, 04:50 AM:

Doug your right about "Monster of Piedras Blancas" being out there...I have a copy [Smile]

Got it off eBay years ago and have never seen another copy for sale anywhere since.

Kev.

Posted by Yanis Tzortzis (Member # 434) on June 17, 2007, 05:00 AM:

being the classic buff that I am,I couldn't but repeat my dream on 'Charge of the light brigade'...

Posted by Dave Cragg (Member # 401) on June 17, 2007, 01:04 PM:

Which film would I love to find?
Hmmm, of those that I know exist, it would have to be 'Enter The Dragon' full length.
Films I would love, but don't know whether they exist on Super 8; Deliverance, Get Carter, The Wicker Man.
Well I can hope! [Smile]

Dave

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on June 17, 2007, 02:09 PM:

I would think if there really was demand for such a title, the original director or producers would release a print for copy, under agreements of rights of course. Providing, too, they are still alive to make more money on the deal.

CG

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 17, 2007, 03:05 PM:

An interesting thought Chip, though Super 8mm is so under the radar that those directors/producers probably don't even know of thier existence. HOWEVER, if you know of the Directors/producers addresses or how to get ahold of them, a write to them could suprisingly give forth with some very pleasant results.

As to "Deliverance" and such, I'm sure that there were optical sound super 8 prints of that. I doubt "Wicker Man" would even exist on optical for, as you well know, the excessive nudity in the film would cause large portions of the film to be snipped.
I tell you, if I could get ahold of Super 8 lab facilities, I would damn well release illegal prints if I had to, (of limited number) to collectors, just to get prints out there, (ah, it would be great to be a pirate!

Yeah, that's right!! I said it!! I would defy the "man", given having the negatives!!

Doug, I think I've seen prints of "Taste the Blood of Dracula" around. I'm not sure if it's the same film, but I know that Paul Foster has a Dracula feature right now, though I don't know if it's that same feature.

Oh, John, the comments about "Master and Commander" aren't a "against U.K." slam in any way, it's just a film that would appeal far more to a british crowd, I believe, than an american consumer, not that americans are the end-all of consumers. I just feel that Derann and CHC could do better by selecting a feature that will have farther reaching appeal, as they're selection of many a classic proves from thier past releases, such as the many sci-fi films they have released ...

otherwise, I wouldn't have STAR WARS or ALIEN as a feature in my collection!

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on June 18, 2007, 03:07 AM:

Osi,

Did you know that the original story that "Master and Commander" was based on saw the British Navy chasing after the Americans, but as Universal funded it, they changed it to the French so it would be more acceptable to the U.S. market. It's nice to see everyone here enthusiastic about new releases, but apart from short subjects, the reality of bringing a new feature to the market is enormous, and I don't think anyone should forget it. Firstly if you can find a 35mm source print to work from, everyone has a different idea what would be a good 8mm release, but when you're governed by the fact that the source print is a "do it" or "Don't do it", then the likes of Derann have to be brave and commit to a title they may not be sure about. I remember Derek Simmonds talking to me before Disney's "Hunchback of Notre Dame" came out, he admitted to me he thought he would be lucky to get his money back on that release, but again it was a case of going ahead with, what at the time was a big title, or having nothing as a new release. The big factor these days is the cost of the negative, it's this cost that must be recovered before anything, and if it is thought that not enough prints will be sold to cover the cost, then I'm afraid it's pure ecconomics that takes over. The trouble is, that something of the quality like "Master and Commander" rarely surfaces these days, and unless some adventuorous collectors can come up with a decent title that will fit all the criteria listed above, then we will have to be lucky to get something everyone would be happy with.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on June 18, 2007, 03:29 AM:

Spot on Bazzer!

Osi, get yourself a print of Master and Commander. The best feature release we've seen for years!

Posted by Patrick Walsh (Member # 637) on June 18, 2007, 04:30 AM:

RAISE THE TITANIC in c/s feature
A NIGHT TO REMEMBER either feature or digest
SINK THE BISMARCK feature or digest
KING KONG mountain release feature
Thats my wish list, also keen to get these on 16mm.
Oh! and a copy of THE SMALLEST SHOW ON EARTH and DALEKS INVASION EARTH 2150AD a must have! [Smile]

I know they exist on either s8 or 16mm, so I am always searching, just sent away for Raise on 16mm but is pan/scan.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 18, 2007, 10:54 AM:

Good post Barry. While I wouldn't buy Master and Commander, (well, I might pick it up for the hell of it for a 100.00 dollars), I'm still happy to see it coming out, if for no other reason than that I can bitch about it, which is half the fun!

By the way, a must havce for me, (and I have at least heard rumors that prints were struck) is ...

BLADE RUNNER

My Gawd!! I'd love to have that one!!

Posted by Pablo Alvarez Roth (Member # 655) on June 18, 2007, 01:10 PM:

I would really love to have a full print of night of the living dead and texas chainsaw massacre!!

cheers
pablo.

Posted by Mark Norton (Member # 165) on June 18, 2007, 02:13 PM:

How about a new super 8 print of 'An Occurance at Owl Creek' The 16mm print went down well at the BFCC Ealing, is anyone else interested in this title? Also what would be the chances of getting any of the old cutdowns re-released, I know Derann have reprinted ' The Creature from the Black Lagoon" but there are many of my favorites like one of the most popular super 8 releases; the 400ft version of Star Wars all these prints seem to have now faded.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 18, 2007, 04:20 PM:

I'm with you on "An Occurance at Owl Creek" Mark. That was awesome and I for one didn't fall in till right at the end when it really sent a shiver down my back.

The trouble is that I know the labs wont make negs from 16mm origination....or will they?

What about it JC? [Wink]

It was an excellent pin sharp print.

Kev.

Posted by Frank Picaro (Member # 811) on June 18, 2007, 06:18 PM:

Patrick,
I noticed a listing on the classic Home Cinema site for KING KONG. Its a Mountain release, but on 4x400 reels. Is it complete? I'm not sure. Good luck.

Frank

Posted by Paul Spinks (Member # 573) on June 18, 2007, 08:06 PM:

Mountain released "King Kong" as a feature in two versions. The 6 x 400ft release was the full length print from the RKO re-release negative. Sadly the reconstucted version with all the good bits that were cut out would not be released for many decades. And a 4 x 400ft version that starts with Ann Darrow being offered to Kong by the islanders and plays through to the end on the Empire State Building as normal.

Paul.

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on June 19, 2007, 02:54 AM:

Kev,

Negs can still be made from a 16mm positive, but it's the soundtrack that's the problem, as the machines no longer are around to transfer to 16mm fullcoat, although there are suggested ways around it. The trouble is unless it's a title that the 8mm buying public will buy without minding the slight drop in class i.e. coming from a 16mm master and not a 35mm master, then in theory it is still posible, but when some of the Forum members are talking B/W titles, then that throws up another set of problems.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on June 19, 2007, 04:11 AM:

I'm with Bazzer on this Kevo. The labs must be able to strike a negative from 16mm. After all, where would the 3D re-releases have come from. Had to be Universal 8 16mm prints.

Posted by Patrick Walsh (Member # 637) on June 19, 2007, 04:38 AM:

Hi Frank
Thanks for the info re KONG, I would prefur the full feature than a edited version.
Cheers
Pat

Posted by Dave Cragg (Member # 401) on June 19, 2007, 07:57 AM:

Hi Osi,
thanx for the info re "Deliverance".
If it's optical sound though, presumably the "squeal like a pig" scene is heavily cut?

Dave

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on June 19, 2007, 08:17 AM:

In Super 8mm I'm still looking for Alien scope feature. I've missed it every time it's been up on ebay.
In 16mm....the original Godzilla, which brought a huge , out of my league , price this weekend on Ebay.....and You'll find Out, the Kay Kyser /Karloff/Lugosi/Lorre musical mystery. Those are on my want list.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 19, 2007, 10:21 AM:

Dave ...

That's the fact with Optical sound super 8mm. If it was rated R in the theaters, it will be PG for the sirlines, just for the fact that children could very well be watching the film on the airline. Therefore, PG. Still, to have it on Optical would be awesome!

The other problem with optical sound super 8 is that it's pretty much Hit or miss with optical, as these were never meant to be sold, (except in select cases) to the public, so the fact that I have the 35 optical features that I have, is pure luck. I'm not saying for a fact that "Deliverance" actually exists, I am betting that such a sucessful film would most definitely be released on Super 8. Whether it made it out to collectors at some point is another matter altogether. One thing is for certian, the print quality will undoubtably be better than the average super 8 print.

"Alien", scope, is defintely worth picking up if and when you can find it. It's a very nice print. It's one of those films that you really wouldn't want to see in a modern movie theater, as it's a largely "quiet" film that has subtle sounds going on around you, and not the kind of film to be distracted from by rotten ill mannered brats running around the movie theater!

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on June 20, 2007, 02:31 AM:

Barry,
Just curious, you wrote "The big factor these days is the cost of the negative, it's this cost that must be recovered before anything, and if it is thought that not enough prints will be sold to cover the cost"

What kind of money are we talking for the negative, and how many prints would be required for break even?

I´m thinking, if enough collectors could agree on some title everyone wants, and even would be willing to pay a premium prize for it to happen...? [Roll Eyes]

Cheers,
Lars

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on June 20, 2007, 02:40 AM:

Lars,

The last time I released anything on 8mm (about 6-7 years ago now), a 2 minute trailer was costing me about £90 plus VAT, and this is before striping, buying the reels and the prints being sounded. Now I know for a fact that the negative prices have risen quite a bit since then, and I don't want to speculate, but if your talking about £100-120 for a 2 minute trailer, you've only got to do the maths how much a 90 minute film would cost. It doesn't sound to bad for a trailer release, but after all costs, you've got to sell about 20-25 trailers to just get your moeny back, and that is really hard these days.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 20, 2007, 10:59 AM:

My Gawd Barry!!

A lot O money that is. I have often thought that if a Super 8 collector had a print of, lets say "Blade Runner" on 16MM, it would be great if the super 8mm collector could then all get together to come up with the money to get the negative made ....

and then we could happily print away!

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on June 21, 2007, 03:26 AM:

And hope we don't get sued!!!

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on June 21, 2007, 04:45 AM:

[Big Grin]

Thank you Barry for the inside tips. This was confirmed to me last year by Phil at CHC. The sale ratio of 20 to 25 prints is the same for features. Some of his releases/imports have sold only 5. As Mr Independent 8 said, do the maths.

I am not sure we can find 25 persons who would agree on one title to release (without even speaking of finding the material for said release).

Although I adore super 8, if I were to spend several hundred pounds/dollars/euros on one feature, I'd rather do it on a 16 or 35 mil print. Needless to say that not all collectors have that level of wealth.

Super 8, IMHO, is an ideal format for trailers, short subjects, extracts and cut-downs.
Kudos to Derann and CHC for releasing material like Chub-Chubs, the Madagascar Penguins, The Bond or Matrix extracts. I'm convinced this is the way to go to keep all the collectors (particularly those with smaller budgets) happy.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 21, 2007, 07:53 AM:

Or the equipment JM. I agree that the quality on 16mm of a new print would be blinding but of course with super 8 you can then have the added benefit of Stereo Sound and lower costs.

I for one would prefer to spend on a decent repeatable feature than a number of shorts or trailers.

Surely if some of the distributors here in the UK are still releasing material then it would make sense to come to this forum and ask what we want or give a us a list of possible titles. This way they could gauge what numbers will sell or even ask for a small deposit to ensure our support. Yes I have heard it said before that a dealer has listened to collectors and released what they wanted only to have no or very few sales of that title.

Without our support the hobby as we know it will die a death.

I know also that people like Gary from Derann has asked before for our wants and it was the support from a group of us here on the forum that got M&C released, fortunately that title sold over 30 copies so was a success story for Derann.
We need to come up with likely titles for release where origination is probably available....obscure titles that only one or two would like is really a no no especially from getting hold of the origination is concerned.

I hear all that Barry says with regard to costs but having been involved with M&C I know it's possible.

I heard many people say at the BFCC "Why cant we have Occurance at Owl Creek" on super 8" well we probably could if the right people got involved and the tech issues sorted but how many would actually cough up at the end of the day when crunch comes to crunch.

Anyway I will stop waffling on and just ask What do we really want to see? but it has to be titles which are in with a chance and that we would be prepared to support the dealer(s) with once released.

Kev.

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on June 21, 2007, 09:17 AM:

Osi already mentioned Blade Runner -I for one would buy it if it were a very nice quality scope print with good magstripes. Does it take about 20 orders for break even? Perhaps it could be released "silent" and collectors could help eachother out to rerecord it, if that would cut costs?
Cheers,
Lars

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 21, 2007, 09:52 AM:

It would cut costs, but not by much. At least over here, in the states, it only costs about 50 dollars more to rerecord in stereo. Now striping the film after being printed, I have no idea as to the cost right there.

Wanna weigh in on that Barry?

Posted by Dave Alligan (Member # 800) on June 21, 2007, 10:04 AM:

As I suggestion why dont you all get together and come up with a title, you would need to get the legal stuff done in that I mean get coipyright clearance, you just cant print 8mm film without getting the proper rights, then you could get in touch with Derann and ask them how much they would charge to get how ever many prints you deceide, it would have to be a even number as you all are aware they are printed in pairs, once you have got a price for the completed batch you would have to cough up the money up front but you would have a film at the end of the day.

As to getting the sound rerecoded on machines at home, trust me you really dont want to go their not unless you really want to bugger up your projectors and I know that for a fact as I have done it.

Dave

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on June 21, 2007, 11:07 AM:

Lars,

It's not the cost of sounding the prints thats the trouble, it's just finding FIRST "A title that will sell" then the most important thing is Finding the source print/negative , we all know the cost of a feature print, and the collector wants quality (naturally!), so it must either come off a 16mm interneg or a 16mm interneg made from a 35mm positive print, no other way around it I'm afraid. Considering the last feature from Derann "M&C" is about 2 years ago now, you can guess how easy it is to find suitable pre-print material. Shorts and trailers are a lot easier to come by, but as Kevin said he would prefer a decent F/L print, but it is bloody hard come up with something these days, so if anyone has any ideas?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 21, 2007, 03:18 PM:

One thing we can do as collectors, is that occasionally internegs, (are all negatives called "inter-negs"?) pop up on ebay, (for instance, believe it or not, I believe the Ken Films Star Wars 200ft neg on 16mm showed up on ebay, or at least, one of them). Negatives of various titles do pop up. Now, ending up getting a negative that's a film you want to print is another thing.

I would REALLY love to find out where the various super 8 film lab materials in america dis-appeared to?

HEY!!! I just entered the 1000 posts club!!! YAY!! (though I liked being called a "Jedi-master film handler")

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on June 22, 2007, 02:30 AM:

Barry, to push your wise reasoning a step further, I'd say it'd be logical to make a list of films - fit to be transfered - that can be sourced, and only then release that list to the collectors for them to chose the one title that'll be considered for release.

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on June 22, 2007, 03:11 AM:

Jean-Marc,

That's fine in theory, but in reality it's pretty hard, as most Forum members must remember the clamour to get the "Wallace & Grommit" feature "Curse of the Were-Rabbit" out a couple of years ago, I still think it would sell, but without source material, you're scuppered again. I think off the top of my head I could come up with at least 20 titles still to come onto the 8mm market, that A collectors would like & B that would sell extremely well, but what is the point of putting peoples hopes up, because unless the print/negative is available to work from, what's the point. A F/L release is one of the hardest things to get right at any time, but in todays market it's near on impossible, unless someone comes up and says for definate they have this title on film and was willing for it to be used, then even I'm scratching my head, as even Derann haven't come up with a F/L print for 2 years now.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on June 22, 2007, 04:27 AM:

Barry, this is exactly what I meant.
1 - find material/prints
2 - make list
3 - send list to collectors to vote for favorite
4 - send print of favorite to lab

Posted by Dave Alligan (Member # 800) on June 22, 2007, 05:12 AM:

What about making sure you got the rights to print the film, you could end up in all sorts of hot water with copyright issues and end up being sued by the studio in question.

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on June 22, 2007, 05:40 AM:

Barry,
I´d have thought the biggest problem would be legal?

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on June 22, 2007, 06:16 AM:

Jean-Marc,

The hardest part is No.1, there is just nothing about at the moment (especially what collectors want to buy F/L), I think we were all spoiled with "M&C" a couple of years ago, and the response to that was remarkable, but as the saying goes, that was then, this is now! I think it would be too damaging to raise collectors hopes about a certain release, wait months, and nothing happens (as I've heard reports about other dealers), at least if a company like Derann say that something will come out it will (unless the labs spoil the party that is). I just don't know how far you can go with making lists, it's fun, but we have to be realistic here, if it's a film of 10 years or over the chance of finding good pre-print is extremely rare, and even the newer titles are extremely hard to find, and we all know that the 8mm collectors have a fondness for the older titles (even "Jaws" is 34 years old, what a print that would be F/L Scope on 8mm). I don't have the answer, I wish I did, the trouble is that to the film studios anything to do with home film collecting 8mm or 16mm they think it's a dead beast, and there is just no money in it these days for them, even the biggest deals like Derann's Disney deal must have been extremely small change to company like Disney, I often wondered why they did deal with any 8mm company after the 70's heydays, but that was the charm of Derek Simmonds more than anything, as he was a man possessed with the thought of seeing all those lovely films on his home screen, sadly since his passing there isn't really anyone who has the same commitment and love of the hobby to push for things, and there is always that ugly sentence "Will it make money!". If anyone has the answers, I'd be more than happy to see your thoughts.

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on June 22, 2007, 06:55 AM:

If enough people agree they want a certain title, borrowing a print from a fellow collector to work from, or even renting it from an archival library for long enough to strike a neg from it wouldn´t seem so impossible?
But I would have thought getting legal permission to go ahead would be the real rub?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 22, 2007, 11:00 AM:

Barry Barry ....

Don't shattah our poo ole dreams here now! Dreams of technicolor wish-lists keep some of us ole boys goin!

That and living completely in a state of denial!

One of the other nice things (among other reasonings) about optical sound prints on Super 8, is that there is a slim chance that I will actually find the film I'm looking for on optical sound super 8, that is, as long as it was made in between 1968 to 1990, (approximately, as I know "Hunt For Red October" was a super 8 optical sound release, and that was 1990.)

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on June 22, 2007, 12:10 PM:

Osi,

I've actually had 1 print of "The Hunt for Red October", nice print, but no actual panning & scanning I could see, just stuck in the middle of the frame.

Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on June 22, 2007, 02:51 PM:

Well,interesting thing the post here.....i can offer my 16mm print of FIRECREEK ,mint condition,scope,english track,for made an internegative if the dear collectors of the forum like the movie,i have also others films like "vengeance of she" with Hammer release tech ib that i can borrow.i have more than 1000 classics films on 16mm in really good or mint condition some of they are almost all the korda films(i love it) and most of the films of Maria Montez (what a lady!!)All my films are in controled room for storage whit air conditioner and wet controls.Now boys....what do you think about my offer??

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on June 22, 2007, 09:44 PM:

Is there a feature that Derann
once released that still has
major interest if it were re-released
using today's lab work along with
improved source material?

Some people had been requesting
prints of Goldfinger?

(With English title credits of course)

Would another Bond classic such as:
From Russia with Love, fit the bill
as a promising release?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 22, 2007, 11:31 PM:

Oh no no no!! Micheal, if Derann must stike new prints of one of thier features, it must be "Hoppity Goes to Town". I've been looking for one of thier LPP prints of this for a long time!!

Posted by Christopher Quinn (Member # 831) on June 23, 2007, 06:48 AM:

I think if Derann focused on releasing Super 8 prints of movies where all the 35mm or 16mm prints are on fading or faded stock, they might get a whole lot more additional sales from collectors who usually only collect higher gauges.

Release Live and Let Die on Super 8!

Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on June 23, 2007, 06:54 AM:

good point! [Smile]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 23, 2007, 01:52 PM:

MIcheal,

Don't know if your interested, but "From Russia With Love" was released as a super 8 optical sound feature.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 23, 2007, 04:40 PM:

Osi, dont forget that there are only a few models of super 8 machine with Optical sound and people may not wish to buy another machine to get the optical playback facility.

Also a well recorded stripe print should in theory knock the spots of an optical soundtrack.

Kev.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 23, 2007, 06:39 PM:

Honestly kevin, your right. Though I love over Super 8 optical films, this is due mostly to availability of titles. When it comes to sound, quite honestly, mag sound beats the socks off of optical.

Though Eumig put out some very good optical sound super 8 machines, I personally think that they (the projector manufacturers) didn't really get the optical sound perfected for consumer use. When well produced, a optical mono soundtrack was very acceptable mono, but there are some rather low level optical sound super 8 prints out there, mostly the U.K. produced prints, (as explained in that lengthy optical post most recently).

So there is my very rare negative rant on my own favorite super 8 subject, a very rare thing indeed.

But the variety of optical sound super 8 features out there are ever expanding. this is optical sound super 8's big selling point. My personal list is now over 150 titles, and those are the known titles.

The other big selling point is the incredible pin sharp focus of almost all optical sound super 8's. i'm still astounded when I watch most prints!

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on June 24, 2007, 12:12 PM:

I believe that the optical print of
From Russia With Love is abridged
as well as it being on SP Stock?

Also as Kev mentioned the mag stripe
will allow improved sound.

From Russia With Love
had to be the best in IB Technicolor.

I remember seeing it in the theatre as
a UA Re-release on a double bill with
Goldfinger when I was very young, and
the scenes with Connery and Shaw on
the train were very rich and vivid.
So imagine the best source material
with today's lab technology and
I am sure that collectors would not
mind making this a special edition to
their collection.

Last but not least it was a sequel of
sorts to Dr. No., Because there are
references to Dr. No in the opening
dialog.

Perhaps both "Dr. No" and "Russia" would
make great companion pieces to a collection?
For who could resist Ursula Andress?
Her look was emulated by Halle Berry
coming out of the water in Die Another Day.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 24, 2007, 05:49 PM:

Micheal,

It is possible that it was printed on SP, but perhaps LPP as well. Being that the optical sound prints were basically printed no doubt on the cheapest stocks available, (as they only expected the prints to be used for a short time), but once they ran out of other film stocks, they no doubt ran to LPP.
After all, optical sound prints were still manufactured up until and thru 1990.

SP itself can age rather well, for that matter, I have a number of Universal 8 prints from way back when that are absolutely pristine and due to proper cold storage, will no doubt last many a year. Certainly long enough for me!

Though it does age, the fade isn't as bad as Eastman and the colour ages to a brownish hue, still leaving much of the colour.

damn, if only my optical print of "Gorky Park" was on Kodak SP instead of Eastman!! (grrrrr!)

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 24, 2007, 06:14 PM:

Osi, It's interesting that you often mention Eumig for optical sound machines but I have never seen one in Europe. Did they only make these for the US and Japan?

It seems to be only Elmo that put out optical machines this side of the globe and only on the ST1200 series and of course the GS1200 as std.

Has anyone in Europe come across optical playback on other makes other than Elmo?

Kev.

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on June 24, 2007, 10:27 PM:

Kev,

If this is any help,
I have only seem the Eumig
Magnetic / Optical machines
listed in the Blackhawk Films Catalog.
Even back then (the '70's,) I did not understand
the concept of Optical 8mm.

Osi,
To each their own, I am not fond
of SP prints that fade to brown.
the areas that are affected first
are all of the neutral density areas.
Black and White.

All of the Black will turn Orange.
This may not bother some collectors
but I find that detail can be lost
in areas that it is most needed,
especially when black defines an area,
and also where white is needed to contrast
against the black.

I always loved the 200 foot versions
of Mary Poppins the Super Nanny, and
I have both the sound and silent versions
because there is alternate footage in each
version.
Anyway...., I viewed each reel one year apart,
and the change was dramatic. All of the
detail was lost in these SP prints.
The images are now very muddy.

Hopefully if Derann finds the opportunity to strike
gold with a new feature release, it will be one
that will fancy many collectors.

I spoke with a fellow collector that
knows of a lab that prints only dry,
and sends out to a wet lab for the final
product in 16mm.

He told me that all 16mm color,and
black and white reversal stock
has been discontinued by Kodak.
Plus his lab is in search of another wet lab,
because the one that he used for 30 plus years
has recently closed its doors.
Who would have believed that 16mm printing
is not as popular as it once had been.

Thankfully there are the facilities in
Europe that are availing this
support to collectors.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 24, 2007, 11:16 PM:

Kevin,

The machine is the Eumig Mark S O&M. I have never heard the ELMO 1200 that also has optical sound, so I don't know how that one sounds, but I do know that this Eumig Mark S has VERY good sound.

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on June 25, 2007, 02:47 AM:

Kev,

I've had 2 or 3 Eumig Mark S O&M's through my hands, and although they are only 600' capacity the optical sound is very good, the only drawback is the non stadard optical lamp (I believe the same lamp as the Fuji SD Auto).

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 25, 2007, 10:02 AM:

Barry,

you are ABSOLUTELY correct about the awkwardness of the optical lamp for this projector! (Mark S O&M) I haven't been able to locate those actual bulbs anywhere. I have instead started using the same size bulbs but different wattage. They work, but the bulb isn't as bright, therefore, lower audio output on my optical sound ... GRRRRR!!

Now, if I can just figure out why the "claw" won't shutter me films thru, I'll be a lot better off.

Concerning the post, I'm hoping for good luck with my optical collecting soon, (concerning rare titles), as I'm going to put an ad in "Reel Image" and see what happens. I just got a copy of "For Your Eyes Only" in optical sound, and I didn't know about that one before as well, so every month or so, I have the chance to own yet another rare title on Super 8.

By the way, I have run into at four different makers of Super 8mm optical sound projectors :

Copal CP 502
Emumig Mark S O&M
ELMO 1200 (which model?)
Yashica sound P810

Posted by Christopher Quinn (Member # 831) on June 25, 2007, 10:12 AM:

Are all Optical prints P&S?

How are the colours holding up on your print of For Your Eyes Only, Osi?

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 25, 2007, 11:30 AM:

Chris, I take it P&S was really supposed to be SP?
If yes then no there were later prints produced which were on LPP.

Kev.

Posted by Christopher Quinn (Member # 831) on June 25, 2007, 11:35 AM:

No, I meant Pan & Scan - ie. films which were shot in widesreen are printed in full frame causing cropping (excepting films shot open matte of course).

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on June 25, 2007, 11:51 AM:

Ok That makes sense now. Yes is probably the correct answer to your question. I think that most titles I have seen are P&S.

Kev.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on June 25, 2007, 11:58 AM:

Osi, both Elmo GSs (800 and 1200), as well as some specific ST models (160, 800 and 1200), and the SC8 feature optical sound.

Posted by Barry Attwood (Member # 100) on June 25, 2007, 02:52 PM:

The top of the range Yelco 3600 Stereo also had Optical sound, but it used the same exciter as the Eumig M&O, so hard to come by, but a nice machine though.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 25, 2007, 03:25 PM:

I haven't recieved "For Your Eyes Only" yet, it's in the mail, but I have bought a number of times from this fella, and he has
never steered me wrong, so I can assume that the colour is just fine.

Concerning letterboxing and widescreen on optical sound super 8, there aren't too many letterboxed optical super prints, and those that are out there were made in the U.K. Two come to mind, both British releases, "Conduct Unbecoming" (good drama) and "Shout At The Devil" (Lee Marvin/Roger Moore) great action picture, which I'M STILL trying to find.

Though the U.K. optical sound airline features have lower sound output, (due to the way the optical tracks were coated), they have one up on the american releases, in that they had not only features, but a variety of TV shows, ("Department S", for instance.) and in all cases, the focus was impeccable! I have noticed that the U.K. airline features tended to have a better film stock as a heneral rule, as the 70's prints have tended to age very well. My prints of "Rising Damp" and "The 39 Steps"
have aged very well.

Which brings up a question, if films like "Rising Damp" a feature based on a U.K. classic comedy, (quite funny) I wonder if I might have a chance of finding "Are You Being served: the movie" on Super 8 optical? I'd be willing to bet that it was out there.

Barry, do you or anyone else in the U.K. happen to know?

Good heavens, this is becoming a monster post!

Posted by Graham Sinden (Member # 431) on June 25, 2007, 04:23 PM:

Osi,

Ive wondered the same question myself as there do seem to be a lot of 'Rising Damp' prints around. I see at least one or two copies of this film at EVERY Ealing that ive been to and on other sales lists. Its probably that the rights were easy to get hold of so they picked that film and printed hundreds of copies, all optical.

I cant remember ever seeing Are you being served, does this exist on super 8. Also what about On the Buses?

Graham

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 25, 2007, 07:21 PM:

Perhaps it's because, (at least over here, stateside) Rising Damp is literally unknown today, no doubt more well known in the U.K.

I would think that when these were released, the rights were automatically given, as, (at least in the case of the American film companies), these films were coming out right at the original release dates, (except in the somewhat rare case of a re-issue on optical sound).

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 27, 2007, 09:18 AM:

I forgot to mention, a film that I always thought would go well on super 8, (especially in scope!) would be,

"Twilight Zone: The Movie"

It was nicely divided into four stories. It would be perfect for Super 8 release as, each story would fit on one reel each, (4X600ft) and if a collector only liked one story,
"For instance, "The Thing on the Wing", they coould just buy that one reel.

Perfect ... eh?

Posted by Marshall Crist (Member # 1312) on June 02, 2014, 10:47 PM:

Reviving this ancient topic. The film I am most looking for at the moment is the 400' digest of THE REDEEMER. Not holding my breath.

Posted by Panayotis A. Carayannis (Member # 1220) on June 03, 2014, 02:26 AM:

I would very much like to obtain Polanski's THE FEARLESS VAMPIRE KILLERS (Derann, Scope),but only at a reasonable price!

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on June 03, 2014, 02:55 AM:

I would be a happy man if I found the following (ranked in order)

Alien, 1979
The Thing (Carpenter)
Escape From New York
Terminator
The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
Star Wars (1977)

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 03, 2014, 03:02 AM:

All of what is on Viders list but many others besides including:-
1/Silence Of The Lambs
2/Speed
3/Mary Poppins (Had it already once!...Damn)
4/Jungle Book
5/The Lion King
6/Lady & The Tramp
7/All Marilyn Monroe Features
8/The King & I

and many many more! lol

[ June 03, 2014, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 03, 2014, 11:51 AM:

Unfortunately, your incredible luck has worked against you, Vidar ...

You've really lucked out on some incredibly low prices for some classic and usually expensive super 8 features, (was that 30.00 or so dollars you paid for Casablanca? wonderful!) ...

But that creates an expectation that you'll luck out at all times, sometimes, while you would love to find that print you mentioned at a bargain price, well, sometimes you'll just have to pay more for something that you really want ...

But hey, who knows, I might hear next week that you secured a print of that title for 20.00 bucks! You never know! [Smile]

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on June 03, 2014, 12:18 PM:

Ha, ha! Sometimes ones lucky. I do expect to pay a lot more for Alien or any of those really. I'd gladly spend 400-500 dollars on Alien, if it's in good condition

Casablanca was a nice find, I believe it was only checked, as only reel one had the tapes removed. I paid 25 GBP which is between 30 and 40 somewhere. 250,- Norwegian crowns. Would any price make you let go of your Star Wars print? ;-) I guess I know the answer :-)

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 03, 2014, 12:21 PM:

I still keep hoping for the first reel of the full feature of the warriors and the full feature of silence of the lambs [Wink]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 03, 2014, 04:27 PM:

We shall go Dutch then Tom & share when one finally ever comes up for sale! l.o.l.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on June 03, 2014, 05:00 PM:

[Big Grin]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 04, 2014, 12:03 PM:

Vidar, if I ever sell my "ALIEN" scope print, I will certainly let you know, you will be first in line, (if you don't get it before then) ...

But don't put me on a timeline for that print, ya hear? [Smile]

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on June 04, 2014, 12:52 PM:

Sounds good to me :-) I won't rush anything, but will be looking still :-) Your Star Wars is of high interest too

Thanks, Osi

Posted by Ernie Zahn (Member # 274) on June 04, 2014, 02:00 PM:

My fictitious want is The Dark Knight (scope) either as a feature or a digest. Osi, put this in my head with another thread and I've never stopped thinking about it!

My real want is the 3x400 Westworld. I had the 1x400 version but I think the 3x400 version is the perfect length for this film.

Posted by Clay Smith (Member # 4122) on June 06, 2014, 12:26 AM:

Was Peter Bogdanavich "The Last Picture Show" ever released on Super 8?
That would be the one I'd really want.
And Casablanca.

Posted by Pete Richards (Member # 2203) on June 06, 2014, 01:12 AM:

I have Star Wars and Empire on Super8, will be parting with them both as have found them on 35mm.

Still looking for Jedi on Super8, would love to have it.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 06, 2014, 11:31 AM:

Sorry Ernie ... [Big Grin]

(snicker) ...

... and while your at it Ernie, "Westworld" was released as a optical sound feature. The funny thing is that it was censored. One short scene, the prostitute robot scene in the upstairs hotel, was cut out, which is so danged strange, as there is, from memory, no nudity there!

The print runs a very full 4X400ft. Color is slightly off. The only really terrible thing about the print is that, for some odd reason, reels two and three have decent focus, while reel 1 and 4 have marginal focus, (especially reel 4 ... sheesh!!)

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