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Topic: I need help with my gs

Jose Artiles
Master Film Handler

Posts: 357
From: Spain
Registered: Oct 2005

posted July 10, 2007 08:38 PM

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Last night i try to sync my gs 1200 with a unit called "audiosync" that i buy in wittner kinotechnik( see photo)

,i make all the connections ,put the gs on ess mode and push the forward buttom but all my gs do was move the rear arm but never start to run with the first sound tone of the pal dvd.....for my desesperation and sadness....now i wonder if someone of you can tell me what i´m doing wrong.

--------------------
As Steven Spielberg says....
Nothing beats old school projection. Digital is just an imitation.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 11, 2007 04:05 AM

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Did you plug anything into the ESS port? Without a pulse going into the port the GS will not run. I presume there is a DIN lead with the Wittner box that goes into the ESS port but having never seen the box I can't be sure. If all else fails get one from Pedro as they work a treat http://www.super8sync.com/English/products.html

Once you have a pulse make sure the ESS gauge is dead in the centre.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Jose Artiles
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From: Spain
Registered: Oct 2005

posted July 11, 2007 05:39 AM

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Thanks for your quick answer Mr. Clancy,yes i put the din cable in the ess port,all connections are made properly but still dont run when i start the pal dvd....maybe it´s time think seriously to buy a pedro´s sync box.

--------------------
As Steven Spielberg says....
Nothing beats old school projection. Digital is just an imitation.

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Joerg Polzfusz
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From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
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posted July 11, 2007 05:53 AM

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quote:
Wird ein Filmprojektor verwendet, bei dem für das "AUDIOSYNC" - Steuergerät keine Spannungsversorgung zur Verfügung steht (Pin 3 des 6-poligen Diodenkabels), dann ist eine externe Spannung von einem passenden Steckernetzteil (8V/100mA) bereitzustellen. Weiterhin ist es erforderlich, den DIP-Schalter auf der Platine in die Stellung: "separate externe Spannung" zu stellen.)

Looks like there are some versions of the GS1200 where you do need an external power supply for that device! (BTW: Even when you're sure that you don't need this: Check whether the DIP-Switch is set correctly.)

I guess that you've followed the instructions carefully step by step with all these "set box to 'STOP'", "enable ESS", "set box to 'FREI'", "start CD" ... -steps:
http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de/katalog/07_vorfu/quartz.php

You might also wanna check your cables and the volume of your CD-player.

Jörg

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Maurizio Di Cintio
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posted July 11, 2007 11:45 AM

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I'm not sure this device is meant to activate the projector just when an audio signal comes from a DVD player. Instead there should be a specific type of sound input, like a "beep" which should last 1/25 of a second. That will cause the little box to activate the projector.
In any case it should be possible to activate this function manually by pressing the green button. Since I own the Pedro's device, I can't tell you whetr the switch on the right shold be set to "stop" or "free".

--------------------
Maurizio

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Flavio Stabile
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From: Roma, Italia
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posted July 11, 2007 02:37 PM

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Hi Jose, reading the description on Wittner site this unit can only manage 25Hz, that means 25fps. Is your ELMO a second series unit? If it's a first series it can only work at 18fps and this could be the reason why it doesn't work...

Flavio

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Jose Artiles
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From: Spain
Registered: Oct 2005

posted July 11, 2007 08:45 PM

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Hi Flavio,thanks you and thanks to other menbers that help me .
uuups [Confused]

[Confused]

Flavio...you got te rigth,my elmo is a first series,its terrible for me to know now that i have to come back to old days when i sync "wild" with my yelco 810....its sad to know that i´ll never can make dvd sync at 25 fps [Frown]

[Frown]

....anyway thanks again to all the forum members that help me so kindly in this matter. [Smile]

[Smile]

[Smile]

--------------------
As Steven Spielberg says....
Nothing beats old school projection. Digital is just an imitation.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 12, 2007 03:20 AM

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I'm not sure that is entirely true Flavio as Mr. Wilton's standard GS is a Mark 1 and that syncs' at 25fps. Also wouldn't Jose's projector give some sort of response even if it did sync' at 18fps? Surely it would go hunting for a pulse it could lock onto once something is being fed into ESS. Have you adjusted the pulse level setting Jose?

Do you have a Cresta Interface for the GS1200 or know anyone who does whom you could borrow it from? If you can track down one of these you can connect that to the ESS port and then use your body as a conductor for a pulse from the DVD video output into the high level input of the Cresta Interface. During bright video passages you should find the GS maintains some sort of sync'. It's just where darker frames come up on the video the signal requires cleaning up to maintain correct synchronisation.

Probably no help at all this but best of luck. And don't give up yet.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Andrew Wilson
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posted July 12, 2007 04:21 AM

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John,I to have the version 1 machine,and that's what it says in the instruction manual...18FPS?.However i think because of how old it is that is what ELMO fixed the pulse rate at for tape decks etc!.
Remeber Laserdisc and DVD'S were not around then.Andy.

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Mike Peckham
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posted July 12, 2007 05:53 AM

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My GS 1200s are both version 1s and whilst the instruction books for both state that they will only synchronise to 18fps, I often use the Pedro Box to synchronise mine to 25fps to run alongside a DVD.

My best example is Grease which is mounted on 2x x1200 ft reels, and having trimmed off and added a couple of frames to the front of one or two of the reels, once started in sync with the DVD, they will remain in sync for the whole 1200ft.

As John says, I think that if it wasn't going to sync up to 25fps, it would at least run and "search" for a pulse that it could sync to. Your problem must lie elsewhere...

Mike

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Flavio Stabile
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posted July 12, 2007 07:39 AM

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Mike, you are very fortunate if you have two first series that work at 25fps via ESS! I also have two ELMO 1-series and they don't work except at 18fps! I use the last version of PEDRO's box where you can set 18-24-25 fps by selecting the related quartz and I can confirm they work only at 18fps.
I tried also the software solution (without the Pedro's box) using a square signal with my pc and the sound card and the result is the same!
The only way I can syncronize my film is using one of my two ELMO GS1200 PCOM (second series) that work at every frequency.

Probably, as I was told some time ago in this forum, there are different versions of the first series, where the ESS has been updated (like yours) and I hope that also Jose's is one of them. For my two there is no chance!

Flavio

[ July 12, 2007, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Flavio Stabile ]

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John Clancy
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posted July 13, 2007 03:34 AM

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Not that I know the answer but I wouldn't be surprised if switching to 25fps sync' from 18fps within the GS1200 only requires moving a connection from one place to another with a bit of solder.

One for Kevo perhaps?

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Kevin Faulkner
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From: Essex UK
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posted July 13, 2007 05:07 AM

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I thought all Elmo's would sync at 25FPS as well as 18 and 24.

With the first machines the user manuals stated that the machines would only run ESS at 18FPS. A separate sheet with the manual said this was an error in the manual and that ESS would operate at either speed.
Maybe one or two initial machines had this problem but I had a series one from the first batch in the UK and that certainly worked ok. I had not till now ever heard of a series 1 which doesnt work at 24/25. I think you must be very unlucky Falvio.

Kev.

[ July 13, 2007, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
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posted July 13, 2007 07:27 AM

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I concur. My recording machine is a series 1 and it runs perfectly at 25fps.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Jose Artiles
Master Film Handler

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posted July 13, 2007 09:11 AM

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Im glad to know that all the elmos run to 25fps(thanks kevin and Jean Marc [Smile]

[Smile]

)so maybe my sync unit is broken,anyway i start thinking to buy a Pedro´s sync unit [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

.....someone can tell me what will be the price for the 1008Q ? [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

thanks in advance and pardon me for my poor write english.

Jose

--------------------
As Steven Spielberg says....
Nothing beats old school projection. Digital is just an imitation.

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Flavio Stabile
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posted July 13, 2007 11:16 AM

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This is a good news! I will try to investigate better why both my two 1-series GS-1200 cannot be triggered at a different speed than 18fps!
Any suggestion is really apreciated!
However,using the digital frame counter of the PCom instead of the standard one is too useful and accurate that has convinced immediately me to use the PCom for any re-recording.

Flavio

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John Clancy
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Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 14, 2007 03:17 AM

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It seems to me you have two of the early machines that were set to 18fps sync' Flavio. I knew they existed but haven't ever come across one.

But as I said earlier, won't it just be a connection that requires moving from one pot to another?

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Flavio Stabile
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posted July 15, 2007 09:56 AM

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Thanks John... so what should I try do exactly?
Soldering what to what?

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Jose Artiles
Master Film Handler

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From: Spain
Registered: Oct 2005

posted August 02, 2007 07:05 PM

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well friends,after a few nigths of thinking our spanish forum member and fantastic person,Xavier Gascón borrow me a new 25fps sync unit,i conect the unit on my gs and.... the projector start to run but not at 25fps,just almost 20fps,it´s strange because if a press the fast buttom the gs run at 25fps but once i quit my finger from it the projector give just almost 20 fps.I take a look inside of the speed board and see that there is two controls for the speed completely sealed from the elmo fabric and another two in the bottom level of the same control board,i wonder if one of that little controls from the bottom of the speed board is for adjust the ess speed,maybe Mr. Elmo can give me an advise on how to do.What do you think about this strange thing,friends?

--------------------
As Steven Spielberg says....
Nothing beats old school projection. Digital is just an imitation.

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Jose Artiles
Master Film Handler

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From: Spain
Registered: Oct 2005

posted August 03, 2007 06:54 PM

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Hi again friends,someone can give me an advice about the ess speed problem?? thanks!!!

--------------------
As Steven Spielberg says....
Nothing beats old school projection. Digital is just an imitation.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

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From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 04, 2007 03:18 AM

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Jose, If your machine is running at 18 & 24 when using it for normal projection then I would NOT touch those speed controls.

This is a very strange situation and makes me think it has something to do with the Wittners box especially as the first one didn't work and now the second one works a 20fps.

I think it might be a money back time and try one of the boxes from Pedro if he's still producing them or maybe try one of the ones sold by FFR in Germany.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jose Artiles
Master Film Handler

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From: Spain
Registered: Oct 2005

posted August 04, 2007 08:50 AM

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Thanks for your reply Kevin.That´s exactly what i did,don´t touch nothing until an advice from you.What i did is to make a test with a FFR unit that gives 25fps crystal sync,as i told before, the machine start to run once the device from ffr was connected but not at 25fps,curiosly the machine run at almost 25 just when i press the fast buttom but if i quit my finger of it the gs back to 19 or almost 20 speed.of course i put the device in 25fps mode before start the test.One curious thing is if a put the ffr device at 16fps the machine run sync exactly in ess mode with the ess needle dead on center but if try the other speed(25 fps) the needle goes crazy and its imposible to center it,i start to think that Mr. Clancy have all the reason to say that some earliers gs only run at 18fps,my version 1 machine have a legend on the motor that say this : april 14 1978,maybe my machine can´t run at 25fps,what do you think Kevin?

--------------------
As Steven Spielberg says....
Nothing beats old school projection. Digital is just an imitation.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

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From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 04, 2007 04:22 PM

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I dont think the motor date will tell us anything. I think Elmo only had about 4 batches made for the whole run of machines.

What I want to know is this: How do you know this is one of the earliest machines?
Does yours have a Black plastic or metal roller at the pint where you poke the film into the input slot?
If it has a black plastic roller do you have a small circuit board with 2 pots on it mounted next to the rewind motor?

If you have the Black Plastic roller and no circuit board then its certainly a Ver 1 machine. If it has the circuit board then its a later machine which should run ok at 25fps with the ESS.

I had a Ver 1 and mine ran at 25FPS via the ESS with no problems at all.

Maybe we could find out what other users serial numbers are of Ver 1 machines running without problems so that we can see if they are earlier or later than yours.

Help please from other satisfied customers [Smile]

[Smile]

Its also strange that if this were the case there is no ref to this or changes in the service manual!

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jose Artiles
Master Film Handler

Posts: 357
From: Spain
Registered: Oct 2005

posted August 05, 2007 06:49 AM

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thanks for your answer Kevin [Smile]

[Smile]

.yes, my elmo have the black plastic roller without the circuit. The loop restorer look to the front.Is a version 1 machine,i hope this machine not belong to the first batch that only run at 18 in ess. [Frown]

[Frown]

--------------------
As Steven Spielberg says....
Nothing beats old school projection. Digital is just an imitation.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 05, 2007 07:55 AM

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Yes thats certainly an early Ver 1 machine.

My original GS was from one of the first batches in the UK and cost me dearly at the time. I was able to use my Cresta pulse unit at both 18 & 24 on that machine.

There was a slip of paper in the front of the handbook with an addendum saying that the ESS worked at both 18 & 24 and not just 18 as stated in the handbook.

Lets see if others can give us some serial numbers of Ver 1 machines which work OK to see where yours lies in that range.

What's the serial number of your machine?

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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