|
Author
|
Topic: Reelistic thoughts on Super 8 ...
|
Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
|
posted October 12, 2007 10:22 AM
I was thinking about a few thoughts I was having with the Faulkner, and it leads me to the conclusion that our films fading isn't the biggest problem we face as Super 8 collectors ...
No, the reel problem is with the projectors. Especially in the case of the L.P.P. and Agfa prints, our films will have a shelf life that's the envy of any celluloid handler. Our projectors are another story.
I note that i am having problems a plenty with my projectors. Though they have tended to be in relatively good running order, they are getting to be like a FORD car
Fix
Or
Repair
Daily
Lets face it, my best units are getting near the 30 year old mark. In fact, at most times, it is actually getting to be more cost effective to buy a good used one off ebay, than to send the broke down machine off to get it repaired.
I don't know how long these projectors were expected to function adequetely, but I'm betting the gentleman of this forum have pushed most of thier projectors WAY PAST thier warrantees.
So, the projectors are the main fear. Personally, when money gets to be a little more free, I am going to invest in a couple of like new Eumig's or ELMO'S and just set them aside with maintenance, so that when, years down the line the ones I use now peter out, at least I'll still have like new projectors to run my beloved films.
Your thoughts?
--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
|
posted October 12, 2007 02:59 PM
O.K. O.K. guys...
I hear ya on that. At least on the belts, I have usually been able to use a belt from a completely different machine on my projectors.
Speaking of projectors, has anyone, (besides myself) noticed that the Kodak Ektasound projectors have been going for rather high prices lately? For some reason, these have been rather trendy as of late.
Getting back to the topic, I do find that in most cases, it seems more cost efficent to just buy another projector instead of pouring money into an aging unit.
It's the same way with T.V.s Why take your 25 inch sanyo TV to the repairman, when another 25 inch will cost 145.oo dollars at Walmart?
Now the films? In most cases, irreplaceable! It's interesting to note the reactions of the audience when I screen my films. There is something wonderful to film. A big screen TV
(projected) while beautiful, is video and we know it. An actual projected image, even with the occasional scratches, is still a wonderful expereince
--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Steve Klare
Film Guy
Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted October 12, 2007 04:23 PM
The funky part of it all is I've had the same 8mm projectors for years, but DVD players I go through like they're disposables. Since broken ones are never fixed, I guess they are! One day they don't work: out to the can, then over to the store and buy a new one. (Maybe cut the power cord off for a spare.)
I have a certain fondness for some of my projectors, with DVD players getting attached would just be inviting rejection!
25 years from now, there won't be a bunch of guys on a DVD forum like this, because not only will the format be obsolete ten times over, the gear will be dead and long gone.
--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...
| IP: Logged
|
|
Graham Ritchie
Film God
Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006
|
posted October 12, 2007 04:50 PM
Now.... if Super8 projectors were built like "Vauxhall cars" ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) I would have given it up long ago ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) I served my apprentiship as a mechanic mostly on american cars, we had the "Holy Loch" nuclear submarine base on our door step in the 60s, my favourite car was the "Ford Mustang" still is ![[Smile]](smile.gif) anyway back to projectors lasting, I would like to think they would, but the reality is, "nothing lasts forever" and as many collectors are not technical people, can they afford the cost of fixing them,? plus will there still be films released in the future,? I am sure Super8 will survive but fewer people will use it, well I hope I am wrong time will tell ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) .
Anyone got a cheap "60s Ford Mustang" to sell ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Graham.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted October 13, 2007 01:34 PM
I agree with Steve, Super 8 projectors will outlive video gear many times over. For example here is the condition of my collection of 8mm projectors:
Projector, Purchase Date, Condition,
Bolex 18/5 silent, 1963, Mint
Eumig S802, 1973, Worn drive disc
Eumig S820 Sonomatic, 1986, Mint
Eumig S926 GL Stereo, 1991, Mint
Eumig S938 Stereo, 2003, Mint
Elmo GS1200 Stereo, 2001, no optical playback
Elmo GS1200 Stero, 2004, Mint
With the exception of the Eumig 820, all these projectors were used when I purchased them!
In comparison, I will probably have to replace my Panasonic AE700 video projector after five years of use, if it lasts that long (already been back to the factory for repair after 2 years). If it fails at all in the next 3 years it will have to be trashed as the cost of repair is so high.
--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Graham Ritchie
Film God
Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006
|
posted October 13, 2007 11:45 PM
I think for anyone who is in for the long haul with Super8, really needs to have a couple of back up projectors in good condition. There is no doubt in my mind that projectors in particular the GS1200 will give problems in the future, eg the take up/rewind motors, although you can fit brushes you cant fix the wear on the commutator segments, "the two brushes run on it" in my case the wear is bad, although the projector is running fine at the moment its only a matter of time, might be years before they fail, when that happens those motors are finished and unless there is an alternative motor that you can fit in its place, what are you to do.? for myself having back up projectors is the only thing I can think of at the moment.
Years ago, long before video and DVD, watching your home movies and bringing a bit of Hollywood in your home was something special, today so much has changed, people now use digital cameras etc, and with Hi-Def LCD TV, etc.. etc.. things are changing again, where does this leave Super8, well the thing I find of concern are the number of people selling off there Super8 for video, the problem here is that companys like Derann need "numbers" to make money out of a release and if to many people give it up, then what? and for those who have sold there gear for video they themselves might come unstuck in the long run, as I understand that VP sales have been dropping in favour of large LCD, Plasma TV so..what if the manafactures give up on producing video projectors .
Well the best bet is to buy up as many Super8 projectors that you can afford. and hope.
Graham.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
|
posted October 14, 2007 02:15 PM
It really does depend on how you maintain everything.
I still have my first DVD player, from the very first year they came out, (Phillips/Magnavox) and it still works great, though slightly sluggish. My video projector, (200 inch screen capability) still works just fine, having had some maintenance, and on it's second bulb, as well as having one of the LCD "plates" replaced, (just loved that parts warranty that i got when i bought it, paid 250.00, and got easily over 2000.00 in repairs on it!) It's bulky, compared to the modern projectors, but still, though one step under Hi-definition, I can't complain.
I'm hoping that i can learn more about projectors over time, which reminds me, what are the leading books I can buy about projectors and thier maintenance?
--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lee Mannering
Film God
Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006
|
posted October 15, 2007 03:20 AM
Osi.
If its any consolation my Pathe 9.5mm projector was made in the 20’s, myself and other users in the past of said machine have kept it going to-date and it still runs both regular 9.5 films along with notched type. Yes it has had repairs and conversions over the years including QI lamp upgrade and new shutter blade, but it’s still going strong. Similarly my 9.5mm Pathe Vox sound projector is still projecting film well and was made in 1938. Converted and upgrade to modern lighting and sound these are good machines. I think the key to a long life for any machine is firstly how many owners it has had and who has tried to gorilla them or not. Perhaps comparing 8mm projectors to vintage 9-5 machines is a good comparison as clearly 9-5 projectors are simple in design and construction. My own feeling is that the downfall of 8mm projection equipment is that the started making them with many bells and whistles and the finest example is perhaps the GS1200 which is completely overloaded with flash gimmickry, after all, it is just for projecting film isn’t it? Any self respecting film maker would not construct a soundtrack on such a machine but use a multitrack to build sound with at that time which is indeed what I used to do on the Fostex.
I feel you have a good point and my own feeling is that it may well be the simply designed machines such as the Sankyo 702 or even the basic Chinon projectors which may have the last laugh. Don’t get me wrong, I love my GS1200, 800 and even my Sankyo Stereo 800, but being so tarted up with gadgetry in the long run I am sure they will not stand the test of time.
Another good comparison is with 35mm projectors perhaps. Forget the larger film gauge just look at the simplicity of the mechanism and design. My own 35mm Philips is very basic and has a simple design for guaranteed longevity. It projects and also reads a sound track, that’s it.
On another tack, one thing which does amaze me is the amount of cine enthusiasts who spout endlessly about film but hardy ever show the blinkin stuff let along buy a new film! Even some of my mates who read this forum take some pushing to give a film show one evening. I expect this has much to do with living a busy life, or is it just basically bad time management? Sadly we have a situation now where some so called cine dealers are now ditching 8mm on ebay as quickly as possible, so much for the love they had for 8mm eigh. Personally I love film and the experience of playing cine and sincerely have done so since the early 70’s. Ill try to keep my machines going as long as possible but do feel it will be the simpler designed machines that will last the longest…
I hang onto one thing which always inspires me to give a show. I showed a 9.5mm sound film to a group of some 40 Children some time ago and after watching it they asked to see it again. Some of them were also given the chance to have a go of the projector. This is the real pleasure of the hobby for me, to entertain.
Happy film show day.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
