8mm Forum: ST 1200HD H E L P ! (Kevin?)

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Topic: ST 1200HD H E L P ! (Kevin?)

James E. Stubbs
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Portland, OR
Registered: Apr 2007

posted February 06, 2008 07:50 PM

Greetings and salutations. Haven't posted in a while as I've been burried w/ work. Anywhoo, I got my hands on a mint looking ST1200 HD. But alas I think it was left in a hot attic and turned all of the belts to a lovely black goo. Took me many, many, did I say many? hours to clean it all up. Got the belts all on got it running.

Unfortunately my model is one where the shutter has the black rubber around it. It also turned to useless goo. I talked w/ Leon Norris here in the U.S. and he said "bite the bullet and scrape it off. It won't change the speed much". I did and found that it ran just fine without any realy noticable speed change at 24fps. Problem is now that 18fps will no longer work due to the missing width of the rubber on the shutter wheel.

So question is did I replace the clutch mechanics incorrectly so it won't switch into it? (I have to force the swith down against the cover to get it to click to 18.) Or due to the missing thickness of the shutter wheel rubber will 18fps no longer work at all? Is there any adjustment for the clutch so that it will work properly at both speeds? What was the original thickness of the shutter wheel rubber? Is there a way to put something back onto the shutter wheel to replace the missing rubber? (It's a bit noisier w/out the rubber) I thought about perhaps using foam sticky tape where only one side is sticky. 18 fps is important to me for the films which I make at 18fps. I have the service manual for the ST-1200HD so I'm at least not completely in the dark. Don't understand it all but it's still a huge help.
Any and all suggesstions/advice would be helpfull and appriciated.
Many thanks,
[Smile]

--------------------
James E. Stubbs
Consultant, Vagabond, Traveler.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 07, 2008 07:53 AM

Its difficult to say what the problem is but I would put my money on the speed change unit being re installed incorrectly.

Removing the Shutter rubber shouldnt have any effect on the ability of the rubber rollers to touch the shutter edge. Its basically the shutter edge which is the stop position of the rollers.
Hope that makes sense?

I think you need to study the way you have re assembled that part with the drawings etc in the manual.

One slim possibility is that the 18fps roller is badly worn down?

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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James E. Stubbs
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Portland, OR
Registered: Apr 2007

posted February 07, 2008 08:13 PM

Thanks Kev. I'll check the installtion of the clutch and wear on the rollars. They didn't seem to worn to me. The projector looks as if it's had little to no use. Just stored someplace too warm. I'll do as you've sugessted and study the manual a bit more and see if I can adjust and fiddle it into place.
Cheers,
[Smile]

--------------------
James E. Stubbs
Consultant, Vagabond, Traveler.

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 07, 2008 10:12 PM

James, if you could post a close-up photo of the clutch assembley and drive belt area, that would help trouble shoot the problem.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 08, 2008 03:35 AM

Generally if the 24fps roller touches the shutter edge the 18fps one should as well.
As Dan says maybe a pic will reveal all if you have a digital camera.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tassos Laudas
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 102
From: Viersen Germany
Registered: Mar 2006

posted February 08, 2008 06:55 PM

Just an opinion: the spring that forces the rollers to touch the shutter should have some tension, if not it may need replacement. You can also cut the one fifth of it and reassemble it, which should provide enough tension, i believe.

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James E. Stubbs
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Portland, OR
Registered: Apr 2007

posted February 15, 2008 11:34 PM

Ok, so I've not been able to get a decent non blury pic of my clutch assy. But it seems no matter what that the 18fps wheel will not engage. It seems the effect of removing the shutter rubber is to move it down and away from the clutch just enought so it wont reach. The 24fps wheel barely touches. All of the springs have plenty of tension. The whole inside of the unit actually looks brand new. Just stored too hot ruining all the soft rubber. Anyways. When I loosen the clutch assy from it's mount and move it down, it works propery. So I think the answer might be to washer the mount at the frame w/ two washers on the top and one on the bottom having the effect of movign the clutch down and into the shutter wheel at a slight angle. I've tried everything else with no luck. Any ideas as to how this might affect the function of the unit? Anyone had this problem before? I'm going to get what I need from the hardware store this weekend and try it. (Fingers crossed)
Cheers,

--------------------
James E. Stubbs
Consultant, Vagabond, Traveler.

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James E. Stubbs
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Portland, OR
Registered: Apr 2007

posted February 18, 2008 04:30 PM

Ok, I tried the washer trick and it didn't solve the probelm. Got the roller closer to the shutter but not close enought. The only way I can get the 18fps whell to touch the shutter is to push the clutch forward and past the stop that hold the clutch in place. It then will engage. But then it's so far forward that the 24fps wheel rubs agains the rear drive belt. Here's where the washer helped. It kept the clutch engaged at 18fps and kept the 24fps wheel away fromt the rear drive belt. It seems removing the shutter rubber has made it so the clutch is just too far away. Leon Noriss had told be this might be a problem and on later models w/out the rubber on the shutter, the clutch wheels are larger. SO anyone have any spare clutch wheels that are larger than the older ones? I think I'm just going to have to make some modifications to make it work. Anyone have any other suggestions?

--------------------
James E. Stubbs
Consultant, Vagabond, Traveler.

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James E. Stubbs
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Portland, OR
Registered: Apr 2007

posted February 19, 2008 02:54 AM

Well, I done finally got it to werk! I did end up having to use a flat washer behind the top screw of the clutch mount to keep it away from the rear drive belt and keep the 18fps wheel touching the shutter. I hand to do quite a bit of bending/shaping to get it to work properly. Plus I had to bend/reshape the selector lever so that the back cover didn't block it's movement. I also had to re-align the gide pin/washers to keep it in line. Removing that rubber from the shutter wheel completely changed the set up. Thanks for all your suggestions.
Cheers,

--------------------
James E. Stubbs
Consultant, Vagabond, Traveler.

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