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Author Topic: Please help my ST-1200 has started jumping when it hits a splice
Jason Clark
Junior
Posts: 17
From: Arlinton, Texas USA
Registered: Feb 2008

- posted April 10, 2008 03:28 PM      Profile for Jason Clark   Email Jason Clark   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just the other day my Elmo ST-1200 started jumping when it hits a splice. Ive watched some of these films several times and have not had this problem before. Does anyone know what might be causing this or how I can fix it.
Thanks for your help,
Jason

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Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006

- posted April 11, 2008 06:29 AM      Profile for Joerg Polzfusz   Author's Homepage   Email Joerg Polzfusz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

just a wild guess: Is the pressure plate at the filmgate (between lamp and lens) in the correct position and does it work as expected?

Jörg

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Jason Clark
Junior
Posts: 17
From: Arlinton, Texas USA
Registered: Feb 2008

- posted April 11, 2008 09:24 AM      Profile for Jason Clark   Email Jason Clark   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Im sorry im really new at all of this, im not sure how to tell if its working properly or in the right position. How can I tell and how would I adjust it?

Thnaks
Jason

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted April 11, 2008 09:44 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello I have a few questions for you, are they tape or cement? is it doing at all splices or certain ones? did you make them? or someone else? some things you can try keep track of the ones that give you problems, place them in a good quality splicer and see if the sprocket holes line up with the splicers sprocket dimples if the splice makes a small bridge and does not lay flat you will have to redo it. good luck

--------------------
jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Jason Clark
Junior
Posts: 17
From: Arlinton, Texas USA
Registered: Feb 2008

- posted April 11, 2008 01:31 PM      Profile for Jason Clark   Email Jason Clark   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All of the splices are tape and it only does it at certain ones. These are splices that ive done myself that had been running fine a couple of weeks ago. Its like the projector is getting more sensitive to them, could something be getting loose?

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted April 11, 2008 02:41 PM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jason, what kind of tape splices are you making, and what kind of splicer are you using? Ciro, Quik Splice?

--------------------
Joe Taffis

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted April 11, 2008 03:09 PM      Profile for Dan Lail   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jason, run one of the films with the jumpy splice. When the first jumpy splices passes through stop the projector and pull enough film off the takeup reel to find the jumpy splice. Using a dental pick or very small sharp pick punch through the perforations where the splice is and then rerun the film to see if it still jumps.

When splicing I always push the spliced film onto the little metal prongs on the splicer to make sure the perf holes are open.

Also keep the film path and record heads clean. I use Filmguard beacause it cleans and lubricates.

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Jason Clark
Junior
Posts: 17
From: Arlinton, Texas USA
Registered: Feb 2008

- posted April 18, 2008 11:49 AM      Profile for Jason Clark   Email Jason Clark   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Things have been crazy around here. It took me forever to get around to checking the splices but I finally did. A couple of the splices were a little off so I fixed them and it helped a bit but it didnt solve the problem. All of the sprocket holes looked fine and no tape was hanging over the side. Im using a kodak splicer with kodak splice tape. Is there some adjustment I can make that will just make it a little less sensitive?
Thanks,
Jason

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted April 18, 2008 05:53 PM      Profile for John Whittle   Email John Whittle       Edit/Delete Post 
If the splices are good, then you need to check the mechanism. Check the gate and claw protrusion. If there is a manual advance see how many pieces of film the claw will pull thru the gate. In the manual advance mode, the Eiki 16mm projector claw should clear 6 pieces of film (.30). Of course it doesn't go that deep at speed but that's the manual advance spec. If the gate isn't seated properly then the film is too far from the claw and when you get to a splice it might "miss". So check you last few maintenance steps and if you cleaned the gate make sure the parts are all back where they belong.

John

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted April 18, 2008 06:14 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Joerg and Johns suggestions are good places to start. If you open the gate does the pressure plate move in and out freely. Its sprung and should move in and out smoothly. Also is it fixed top and bottom properly. I have seen an Elmo where one of the 2 securing screws and its associated spring had disappeared.

When the claw comes out to engage the sprocket to pull the film down it should protrude by 1mm through the film gate.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Roy Neil
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 203
From: Menlo Park, CA
Registered: Sep 2007

- posted April 18, 2008 07:57 PM      Profile for Roy Neil   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I use FilmGuard to lubricate my prints.

I also use it clean the film path after each reel.

If I was to guess Id say the side guides in the gate are dirty and need a good scrubbing.

The entire film path can get very dirty with Super 8 due to the magnetic striping; it often leaves residue behind especially in the gate and soundhead areas.

Alcohol will work as well if you do not have FilmGuard, I would avoid FilmRenew as it can damage plastics.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted April 19, 2008 06:24 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Roy, That is also a good suggestion and one I had forgotten about. If there is a build up of oxide on the edge guides the splice could catch momentarily on it's way through the gate.

Isopropyl Alcohol is also very good for cleaning the entire film path and is what I have been using for years. Also sold as tape head cleaner.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jason Clark
Junior
Posts: 17
From: Arlinton, Texas USA
Registered: Feb 2008

- posted April 21, 2008 03:28 PM      Profile for Jason Clark   Email Jason Clark   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I give it a good cleaning and took a look at the gate and claw. As far as I can tell everything is just fine which seems to bring me back to the splices. I started a film and waited until the splice was in the gate, stopped the projector, and pulled the lens back. When I looked at the film the splice wasnt laying flat, maybe I just have a bad splicer because I dont know how I could splice it any differently. I also noticed a frame of film was creased causing it to start jumping. Is it normal for the projector to be that sensitive?
Thanks,
Jason

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted April 21, 2008 04:31 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A good splice never separates from the butt line...where the two frames come together. Really good pro splicers will allow slight overlapping to prevent this. My theory is the films are pulling apart throwing off alignment of sprockets......I have ST1200HD machines and the Ciro super 8 M-3Special splicer and I never have this problem.

CG

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted April 21, 2008 04:33 PM      Profile for Dan Lail   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jason, try Roy's suggestion by putting the film on rewinds and spraying Film Guard onto a soft cotton cloth(old tee-shirt?) and holding the dampened cloth around the film with light pressure and rewinding it. Be sure and check the cloth every few hundred feet for dirt and turning the cloth over to a clean side. Then run the film throught the projector. This will work wonders and improve the picture with a wet gate look.

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