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Topic: Dave Thomas Film Dealer? Reputation?

Roy Neil
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 203
From: Menlo Park, CA
Registered: Sep 2007

posted April 29, 2008 09:50 PM

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This hobby is so small and in danger of becoming extinct that I feel we need to curb the hate and give benefit of doubt.

Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone is deliberately dishonest.

Steve Osborne sold me some reels advertised as 'like new' that were rusty and needed to be returned. I assumed it was an honest mistake borne of haste, and I was right. Steve hadnt inspected the reels and was working from memory.

My point is that nobody is perfect; barring blatant fraud or outright criminal behaviour ... we should probably cut each other a little slack.

I would purchase from either Steve Osborne or Dave Thomas in full confidence. My experiences in the past are proof that any discrepancy will be handled professionally ( albeit I wont wait 11 years )

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Tom A. Pennock
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Battle Creek, MI. USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted April 29, 2008 10:12 PM

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Roy:

It is not "hate" but a disappointment. Yes, as John Whittle said I should have tried out the len's when I first got it. Yes, it was eleven year's ago and I never got around to trying it. I trusted that it would work. Those who know me in the hobby know I don't spew hate toward's anyone. I think most people would feel bad if they lost $300.00. This is quite a bit of money to me. I expected to get something out of it. I am giving it to Steve Osborne for his time. I feel he might be able to use the stand and bracket. The len's itself cannot be used at all.

--Tom

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Roy Neil
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 203
From: Menlo Park, CA
Registered: Sep 2007

posted April 29, 2008 11:20 PM

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Wasnt pointing fingers at you Tom I was speaking in 'general' to all concerned - I should have clarified that in my posting.

Sorry about the confusion.

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Tom A. Pennock
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Battle Creek, MI. USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted April 29, 2008 11:36 PM

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Hi Roy:

I understand. No problem!!!

I meant to ask you "Is Menlo Park where Thomas Edison lived or had a laboratory"? For some reason when I saw the Menlo Park on your ID I immediately thought "Thomas Edison". I think if this is correct his actual building/lab from Menlo Park is on display at Greenfield Village in Dearborn, Michigan. Also are there any tourist attractions there in regard's to Thomas Edison? This is way way off the film topic!!! People kid me about my name and an Edison connection. My full name is Thomas "Addison" Pennock. The middle name is what does it.

Best, Tom [Smile]

[Smile]

UPDATE: I found out it was Menlo Park, New Jersey!!!

[ April 30, 2008, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: Tom A. Pennock ]

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted April 30, 2008 06:28 AM

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I can understand your disappointment Tom. I used to buy film from Dave Thomas years ago and always found the items as described and delivered fast. Recently I bought an Elmo reel from him and again great service. Some others have not been as good.

I must admit once I sent the wrong item to someone who bought from me on ebay; they were very understanding and I ended up giving them a big discount. I always appreciated the opportunity to put it right. I think you should at least let him know of the problem.

David

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted April 30, 2008 06:58 AM

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Hi Tom,

Even though its been some years since the purchase, I feel you should contact Dave and let him know the situation.

I think its important he be given a chance to reply - very possibly an honest mistake was made, and he may wish to correct it.

Otherwise, his future reputation as a dealer is somewhat in doubt, even as a result of anyone reading this thread!

-Mike

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 30, 2008 07:40 AM

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I agree with both Michael and Roy. The first step should have been to contact Dave direct before even asking the question on this open forum.

I would suggest that is what you do now instead of Dave reading about it on here.

Nearly all the posts so far have been positive so please contact him. You should get the lens back so that Dave can see it if need be. At the moment you cant do anything about it as you have given the lens away.
If you cant get it resolved you could then at least put it up on eBay and sell it on for 16mm which at least gets you some of your money back.

Please let us know the outcome.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted April 30, 2008 08:34 AM

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I should add that despite that one time that I saw a lapse in character/judgement, (concerning Starbird and Sweet William),
he had been honest and reliable.

To end statements, (at least by me), every business is always one bad deal away from losing it all. The customer need not prove anything (beyond paying for his item), the business has everything to prove.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Frank Picaro
Film Handler

Posts: 63
From: Pine Beach, NJ,USA
Registered: Apr 2007

posted April 30, 2008 08:51 AM

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I've dealt with Dave several times and I always had great service, and friendly emails. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from him again!!!

--------------------
Seems? I know not seems!!

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Tom A. Pennock
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Battle Creek, MI. USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted April 30, 2008 10:06 AM

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I agree Kev 100% and I will see if I can get in contact with him. Does he ever post on forums? Yes, he does definately have a right to make amends. Like I have mentioned I have dealt with Dave for many years and considered him a good friend in the hobby. Knowing Dave it's completely out of character for him NOT to be honest. I have known him too long.

--Tom

UPDATE: I just e-mailed Dave to let him know of the situation and he deserves the right to defend himself.

[ May 04, 2008, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Tom A. Pennock ]

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 30, 2008 10:39 AM

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Tom, You will have to take into account the lapse of 11 yrs before finding this problem. I have to say that I don't quite know what I would say to someone after 11yrs probably "on your bike matey". As I said before Dave has always been a helpful guy and I have had no probs so really its down to the two of you to come to some sort of amicable agreement.

Difficult one [Eek!]

[Eek!]

and good luck.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tom A. Pennock
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Battle Creek, MI. USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted April 30, 2008 12:32 PM

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Exactly! He did say that he had two more just like it to sell on e-bay. It's always best to give people some space to defend themselves. Dave has been a straight shooter from day one. It's my fault.

--Tom

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Roy Neil
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 203
From: Menlo Park, CA
Registered: Sep 2007

posted April 30, 2008 06:11 PM

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quote:
It's my fault.

--Tom

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself Tom, and theres no point in assuming blame.

To quote a really smart person ... " Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone is deliberately dishonest. "

[Smile]

[Smile]

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted April 30, 2008 06:31 PM

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And then some are mistakenly deliberate. [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Tom A. Pennock
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Battle Creek, MI. USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted April 30, 2008 08:01 PM

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The MILLION DOLLAR question now is: Will we hear from Dave one way or the other? He has been notified!!!

--TP

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Tom A. Pennock
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Battle Creek, MI. USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted April 30, 2008 11:59 PM

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I just went upstairs in my film room (vault) and I found an instruction sheet on how to use this len's kit. So it look's like I owe Dave a MAJOR apology. Also I can't get in contact with Steve Osborne at this point. The instruction sheet I found goes into major detail on how to set this up. Now the next thing is to get a copy of this instruction sheet from Dave Thomas to Steve Osborne. If the lens did NOT work then Dave would not have sent the instruction sheet. Now what do I do?

[ May 01, 2008, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: Tom A. Pennock ]

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Roy Neil
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 203
From: Menlo Park, CA
Registered: Sep 2007

posted May 01, 2008 05:25 AM

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Thats great news Tom, it sounds like this might have a happy ending.

If I were you, I would try and get the lens back from Steve. This would allow you to test the lens yourself to determine if the lens actually works ( using the instructions ), or if it needs to be exchanged/returned.

If Dave can accept an exchange/return at this late date, its best for you to deal directly with him rather than via Steve.

There is the remote possibility the lens itself is faulty - I recently purchased an ISCO 35mm scope lens for my Simplex that would not focus under any circumstances and had to be returned.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

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From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted May 01, 2008 07:09 AM

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I'm a little confused here.

I thought a major part of the problem was that you had been sent the wrong lens kit ie. a cheaper imitation Buhl kit instead of the advertised Kowa kit.

Most likely I haven't read the thread correctly!!!!

Either way I hope it all ends up well.

-Mike

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Tom A. Pennock
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Battle Creek, MI. USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted May 01, 2008 11:27 AM

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Yes, it is not a Kowa kit but a Buhl kit but it's better than nothing. I can't contact Steve Obsborne at all and no reply from Dave. Steve's phone is an answering machine.

--TP

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted May 01, 2008 06:09 PM

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Tom,

Though Steve is very reliable, it can be hard to get ahold of him sometimes, but he always gets back to you, one way or the other.

I'm also glad to hear that this whole lense situation may have a good ending as well. Though it may seem that I have been hard on Dave, I personally don't think that he's a bad chap.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Tom A. Pennock
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Battle Creek, MI. USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted May 05, 2008 11:24 AM

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No response from Dave or Steve at this point.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 05, 2008 11:42 AM

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Does Steve and Dave have web sites? I'm after some 1200ft spools.

Thanks, Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Douglas Meltzer
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From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 05, 2008 04:12 PM

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Kev,

Dave Thomas' eBay store can be found here .

Steve Osborne doesn't have a web site. He often carries used reels and in fact the latest Reel Image mentions a fellow from Minnesota who is starting to manufacture new aluminum 800' and 1600'reels. The 1600' will fit all 1200' capacity projectors. No price as of yet.
Steve's 24 hr. voice mail: 937-296-9036
Or send him a fax at 937-296-1084

Doug

--------------------
I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted May 05, 2008 09:29 PM

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I saw that ad about the 1600 ft. reels Steve will have in the near future. I don't have a projector that can take them, but nifty, just the same. They must have a smaller center that allows for more film. It's the only thing that makes sense!

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Tom A. Pennock
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Battle Creek, MI. USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted May 05, 2008 11:55 PM

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Yes Osi I think the hub's are a bit smaller for more film capacity. I think Steve is going to send up a film to me soon. Last I heard! Sound's like LPP too! Has good color! He e-mailed me a week ago last monday!!!I sent Steve a copy of the instructions for the Buhl lens last Friday. I wonder if he will be able to navigate it?

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