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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on October 05, 2008, 09:24 PM:
 
I was hoping to get a feel for how many of you would be interested in a Kelmar Style film cleaner designed for Super 8mm and 16mm use.

I use a Kelmar film cleaner on my 35mm projector whenever I run film, and I sorely miss it when I run 16mm and Super8. Im just finishing the construction of a Kelmar Style film cleaner for my own use, and was urged by others to make it available for sale. So I popped up here to see if in fact anybody was interested.

Please post a reply with any comments/thoughts you may have, I would appreciate the feedback.

( and of course Im assuming everyone here knows what a Kelmar cleaner is ... maybe thats a mistake so let me know if I need to post more info )
 

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Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on October 05, 2008, 09:32 PM:
 
I already have one that is converted and I'd like to have another. In the future I plan to put them on my Towers, much like they go on the penthouse.

So yes, I'd be interested and I know how they work exactly.

~CG~
 

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on October 06, 2008, 09:18 AM:
 
Roy,

I was also looking to adapt a Kelmar media cleaner so I could use it on both Super 8mm & 16mm projectors. I'm definitely interested in whatever you come up with.
For the curious, Kelmar info can be found here.
I've moved this thread from General Yak, since it does involve 8mm.
Doug
 

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Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on October 06, 2008, 02:06 PM:
 
Adapting the cleaner is actually very simple.

You just reverse the order the parts are installed, but to do this you must add (not included) longer screws to go the extra difference to hold it assembled.

From the above link @ picture, the large black roller upper right the film drives this part. From the factory, it's set at 35mm.

Remove the first two screws for the outside flange.

Remove the collar adapter with an allen wrench.

Remove the inside flange and expose the direct shaft.

Insert the collar all the way in and secure.

Insert the inside flange.

Insert the outside flange.

Align the holes through the flanges.

Add the new longer screws through the two flanges and into the collar.

All the other rollers and cloths remain 35mm format.

You have now converted the Kelmar to 8 / 16.

The Kelmar cleaner is designed to run at play speed. So this device is NOT supposed to clean a reel during a standard rewinding of a reel at high speed. This is very important and do not try to break the speed limit.

Once set between hand crank rewinds, the Kelmar cleaner should take about 15 minutes to clean a full 1200' reel.

And for best results, you should be using sturdy rewinds, such as any of the Neumade hand crank sets.

I do not recommend using the Kelmar cleaner with the Elmo rewinds because the left side does not have a brake tension. Even if you held your hand on the reel, this would still be difficult. Film tension is required to properly keep contact to the cleaning rolls.

Remember I have worked as a theater projectionist, I have experience with the Kelmar cleaner. So listen up to what I write and be careful with your prints. The Kelmar cleaner is a big investment so you should be very sure you want to do this first before you do it at all.

With proper care and handling, the Kelmar unit works very good and I do not clean my prints any other way.

~CG~
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on October 06, 2008, 07:56 PM:
 
Sorry for the confusion, Im not converting Kelmar cleaners ( much too costly ) I manufactured my own Kelmar-Style cleaner. It measures 4.5" x 3.5" x 1.25" and will accept the same cleaning media the Kelmar uses - although I hope to have half height rolls made for 16mm and Super8 use.

The Kelmar cleaner is designed for 35mm use, so the cleaning media will advance very very slowly with Super8 - I chose a gear ratio more favorable to 16mm and Super8.

If all goes according to plan the unit should retail for approximately $200 maybe a tad less/more.

Im hoping to establish if there is enough demand to warrant going into production and right now it seems fairly low - so if indeed any of you are interested in this please post now or forever hold your peace

( The cleaner is designed for use with 16mm or Super8 so I made the post in the General Yak section - my apologies )
 

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Posted by Bob Pucci (Member # 8) on October 07, 2008, 08:42 AM:
 
Roy if you go into production I would buy one.
 

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Posted by Jose Artiles (Member # 471) on October 07, 2008, 09:01 AM:
 
Me too,im very interested!
 

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Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on October 07, 2008, 10:14 AM:
 
How would it mount to an 8mm or 16mm projector? Is this similar to Kodak's PT rollers?
 

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on October 07, 2008, 12:14 PM:
 
Roy,

If you come up with a system for wet gate projection, I'm in!

Doug
 

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Posted by David Michael Leugers (Member # 166) on October 07, 2008, 09:36 PM:
 
If it works, I will buy one!
 

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Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on October 08, 2008, 09:16 AM:
 
OK. I'll try one.
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 08, 2008, 09:57 AM:
 
OOOH!

After looking at that link, (thanks Doug!) I get where we are going.

So this would be going on the front or back of our projector and would clean the film as we run it?
 

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Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on October 08, 2008, 11:16 AM:
 
You are correct Osi. But as Roy says, he is not working on the actual Kelmar unit as I thought. My apologies to everyone. I am very interested in Roy's project.

Chip G
 

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Posted by Hugh McCullough (Member # 696) on October 08, 2008, 04:25 PM:
 
Sounds just the thing that I have been looking for. Count me in.
 

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Posted by Peter Willems (Member # 1411) on January 16, 2009, 04:43 PM:
 
Hi Roy,

I would buy one and I am pretty sure that there are other fellows in the German collector scene who also would grasp one. I know what a Kelmar cleaner is but I still don't know if there is an automatic feeding mechanism for the cleaning wipe. Is there a motor inside or a gear connected to one of the rollers? Will you be using the original Kelmar cleaning tape?

I could use some material on the original Kelmar if you had...

Best,

Peter
 

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Posted by Hugh McCullough (Member # 696) on January 16, 2009, 05:12 PM:
 
Peter.

The film drives the large black roller. This in turn is connected by an internal chain to gears on the rollers that hold the cleaning media.
The cleaning media rollers revolve at a very slow speed, and advance the media, thus allowing a clean piece to be always in contact with the film.



Hugh.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on January 24, 2009, 03:53 AM:
 
Download this.
 

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Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on January 25, 2009, 07:38 AM:
 
Hi Roy,

I would be very interested in such a film cleaner too.

Hans
 

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Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on January 25, 2009, 08:20 AM:
 
hello Roy if you have any left I would be interested thanks
 

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Posted by Simon McConway (Member # 219) on January 25, 2009, 08:29 AM:
 
I would like one.
 

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Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on January 25, 2009, 01:36 PM:
 
I would like one but I'm wondering whether or not Roy is still actually working on this as its been a while since we've heard from him either here or on the 16mm forum.

-Mike
 

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Posted by Stewart McSporran (Member # 128) on January 26, 2009, 04:02 PM:
 
I have a Kelmar that I adapted for 16mm use - Chip, I turned a 16mm guide from aluminium to replace the 35mm plastic one, I didn't feel safe using the existing one.

The problem I have is that I can't figure out how to mount it with my Elmo 16CL so that I can use it at projection time. So if Roy's design solves this then I'm up for one.
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on January 29, 2009, 12:07 PM:
 
Yes

I am still working on this - in fact I finished and am preparing to offer the units for sale shortly.

I can share some photos of the first prototype being run on my 16mm Eiki. The photos are not the best quality but show you how the unit looks.

I came up with a Handle Clamp mount to try and satisfy the largest number of projectors. I will also offer a means to mount the cleaner independently of the projector although I have not constructed that as of yet.

The Handle Clamp used in the 16mm photos follows the same principle however it was fashioned for temporary testing purposes. The 16mm Handle Clamp will look much like the Super8 pictured below.

First Prototype 1

First Prototype 2

First Test Film

Three Hours Later 1

Three Hours Later 2

Super 8 Mount
 

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on January 29, 2009, 01:09 PM:
 
Roy,

Excellent work!

Doug
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on February 01, 2009, 06:26 PM:
 
Thanks Doug !

Since I myself am a film enthusiast ( and somewhat quixotic ) I chose to begin this endeavor knowing full well that I may be the only soul interested in this contraption. It is extremely gratifying to see others appreciate my efforts, and that the fruits of my labor may be enjoyed by more than myself.

I have spent more hours than I wish to admit striving to come up with a design which is highly reliable, yet inexpensive to manufacture.

I am currently determining the final cost-of-goods including labor. Many of the parts I will be machining myself, although some of the high tolerance work will be outsourced. It has been my goal to bring this to market with a very low price point ( approx $200 )

Brand new Kelmar units sell in excess of $700 and after the last 3 months of work designing and testing the prototype for production, its easy to see why. Gearboxes must be engineered to strict tolerances or the gears wont mesh properly. In this instance I have to maintain gear spacing to a tolerance of +/- 0.002"

Im finalizing the details for my first production run. I intend to contact the individuals who have expressed an interest here as soon as I am ready to begin accepting orders for delivery.

If you feel you will wish to purchase a cleaner but have not posted, I encourage you to post here or otherwise contact me with your interest. Planning a production run is quite tedious, and in order to keep costs low I am proceeding very judiciously. I am producing an initial run of 10 cleaners, with another 10 to follow. The responses here and on the 16mm forum are what I am utilizing to determine the initial demand. This week I begin the first production run and I can ( up until mid week ) expand the production run but only if there is a demand.
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on May 05, 2009, 02:47 PM:
 








When I first mentioned this project I said I wanted to bring it in for under $200 - and as promised I am .. for the first 25 units

Im calling it an 'Introductory Special'

Due to an increase in raw materials and other unexpected costs, the price will increase $50 after the 'Introductory Special' is over.

I just got finished emailing/pming all those that expressed interest, and if they each want one cleaner then I wont have enough units ( I only have enough stock for 15 units )

If all 15 go quickly then I will commence the next production run immediately, and that means approximately 4~8 weeks to complete the run. My vendors need to produce tooling which requires a few weeks.

For the price conscious do-it-yourselfer's I included technical drawings in the User Guide for the Adaptor and Handle Clamp, so they may fashion their own instead of purchasing directly ... so you can get everything you need for $199.95 as promised ( if you want to do some machining yourself )

No, it wasnt easy at all to keep the costs so low and still make it 'practical' - infact it was downright Hellish - that shows you how much I love film !

Pricing

Film-O-Clean for 16mm or Super8 ( specify film gauge when ordering )
$199.95 Special Introductory Price
$249.95 Standard Retail Price

Film-O-Clean Adaptor with captive screw
$39.95

Handle Clamp for 16mm/Super8
$39.95

Universal Bracket for Bench or other 'thruhole' mounting
$24.95

Universal Clamp for mounting on an independent fixture
$29.95

Extension for use with any clamp/bracket
$14.95 ~ $19.95 ( based on length )

Cleaning Media ( box of 8 rolls )
$14.95

Cleaning Media ( box of 20 rolls )
$29.95

Film-Tech FilmGuard
$29.95 each for one
$27.50 each for two

Package Deals

Cleaning Media ( box of 8 rolls )
Film-Tech FilmGuard
$39.95

Cleaning Media ( box of 20 rolls )
Film-Tech FilmGuard
$49.95

Film-O-Clean for 16mm or Super8
Film-O-Clean Adaptor
Handle Clamp
Extension ( 9" )
Cleaning Media ( 4 rolls )
$275.00 Special Introductory Price
$325.00 Standard Retail Price

Film-O-Clean for 16mm or Super8
Film-O-Clean Adaptor
Handle Clamp
Extension ( 9" )
Cleaning Media ( 8 rolls )
Film-Tech FilmGuard
$315.00 Special Introductory Price
$365.00 Standard Retail Price

Film-O-Clean for 16mm or Super8
Film-O-Clean Adaptor
Handle Clamp
Extension ( 9" )
Cleaning Media ( 20 rolls )
Film-Tech FilmGuard
$325.00 Special Introductory Price
$375.00 Standard Retail Price

(* edited filmguard pricing 5/20 )

[ May 20, 2009, 03:42 AM: Message edited by: Roy Neil ]
 

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on May 05, 2009, 06:20 PM:
 
Roy,

Congratulations on designing and manufacturing the "Film-O'Clean"! Could you explain what the adaptor with captive screw is for?

Count me in for the Super 8mm model!

Doug
 

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Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on May 05, 2009, 06:39 PM:
 
This seems to be phenomenal. Yes, congratulations from Italy too!
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on May 05, 2009, 08:01 PM:
 
Thanks Doug and Gian Its been a long road but Im happy with the final result

The Adaptor plate is visible in the photographs on the back left corner of the Film-O-Clean unit - you can also see it attached to the Extension Arm where it is mounted to the projector.

The Adaptor Plate allows for quickly attaching/removing Film-O-Clean to/from the Mounting Fixture. The Handle Clamp attaches to the projector; the Extension Arm attaches to the Handle Clamp; The Adaptor Plate is attached to the Extension Arm; Film-O-Clean attaches to the Adaptor by means by means of a captive screw on the Adaptor.

Not only does it allow you to easily attach/remove Film-O-Clean, it also provides a means to utilize a single Film-O-Clean unit on more than one projector and also on the rewind bench. That is another reason why the Mounting Fixtures are sold seperately in addition to being bundled in the 'package deals'

Here are a few more photos to help clarify the Adaptor Plate.

Assembled Handle Clamp with Extension Arm and Adaptor Plate.


Rear View of Film-O-Clean to show mounting holes


Handle Clamp et al mounted on ST1200HD


Film-O-Clean attached to Adaptor Plate

 

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Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on May 07, 2009, 10:11 AM:
 
Hi Roy,

Great you finally managed get this cleaner in production.
You can count me in for one too.
Is it possible to change the cleaner from 8mm to 16mm by swapping the rollers?
I would like to use it for both formats, but rather don't have to buy 2 of them.

Hans
 

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on May 07, 2009, 10:56 AM:
 
Roy,

Could you please send me an e-mail by clicking on the mail link? Thanks.

Doug
 

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Posted by Tony Simonelli (Member # 1316) on May 07, 2009, 03:23 PM:
 
Roy,
I'm definitely interested in ordering. Please email me when you get a chance.

Tony
 

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on May 07, 2009, 03:35 PM:
 
Tony,

Welcome to the Forum!

Doug
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on May 07, 2009, 05:27 PM:
 
Tony I tried to send you an email but the forums told me your email is being blocked either by the admins or yourself

Please feel free to contact me at your convenience by phone or email

Roy Neil
Neil Research Laboratories
Menlo Park, CA 94025
650 325 8480

Hans - Yes it is possible to convert from one film gauge to another. The Conversion Kit includes Two Rollers and the Main Drive Wheel with orings and set screw, the Allen Key for the Main Drive Wheel is already included with Film-O-Clean.

8mm or 16mm Film Roller $14.95 each
8mm or 16mm Main Drive Wheel $34.95 each
Conversion Kit for 8mm or 16mm $54.95
 

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Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on May 10, 2009, 01:03 AM:
 
Roy
I definitely want one of these, but I am curious how long do the cleaning rolls last before you need to replace them. such as super 8 (1 roll = 25x400ft reels) or something to put it into perspective for the ongoing costs.
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on May 10, 2009, 02:59 AM:
 
Two spools of cleaning media are used to clean/lubricate both sides of film simultaneously

Spools provide 'approximately' 3~4 hours of cleaning time for 16mm and 6~8 hours of cleaning time for Super 8

Cleaning Media is rewound after it is depleted and used again - until completely worn/spent.

Typically the Cleaning Media may be rewound and reused more than 10 times before requiring replacement - in fact - Cleaning Media performs 'better' after initial useage, so replacing it after one use is NOT recommended.

I changed the Cleaning Media on the prototype after it had cleaned 80+ hours of film - and it didnt 'need' replacement at the time, I just wanted to try the new media I had fabricated.

But wait .. there's more ...

Cleaning Media is wide enough for 16mm film. Positioning the drive wheel strategically will allow Super8 users to use only half the media - so conceivably the media could be used half at a time, doubling its lifespan.

One box of 8 spools should last for quite awhile.
 

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Posted by Stewart McSporran (Member # 128) on May 10, 2009, 01:22 PM:
 
Roy,

I'm curious about your statements regarding rewinding media rolls. On my 16mm modified Kelmar I've seen gunk piled up thick on the media after just one pass of a particularly dirty film. Indeed, almost all my films initially leave surprising amounts of dirt on the media. I'd be seriously concerned about re-using such dirty media.

I bought about 5,000 feet of approximately 1" wide media roll from Brad here at a very reasonable price, so I'm not concerned about frugality!

I've also got several dozen commercial 35mm media rolls if anyone's interested in making me an offer for them.

Stewart
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on May 10, 2009, 09:21 PM:
 
The film would have to be pretty dirty for the Cleaning Media to be exhausted after one pass - but I imagine its possible depending upon how much dirt/dust is present.

Certainly, the longevity of Cleaning Media is directly proportional to the amount of debris on the film. Cleaning Media will remove 'x' amount of dirt from film; If the Cleaning Media absorbs 'x' amount of debris in one pass, it will be fully exhausted.

Its very difficult to describe how dirty is 'too dirty' in terms of the Cleaning Media. I usually change the media once it has become substantially covered with debris. Typically with 35mm I rewind the media approximately 8~12 times before replacing with fresh media .. depending upon how dirty it is.

Cleaning Media will continue to absorb/remove dirt when dirty; and Brad Miller will corroborate that it performs better after being used once.

As I am rewinding the Cleaning Media I can visually determine if the Cleaning Media has reached 'the point' where it requires replacement - but trying to quantify that in terms of hours/feet of film is very difficult since its all relative to the amount of dirt on the films.

If I were a snake oil salesman Id tell you to change the media after one use and never rewind it, because it would mean Id sell a lot more - but thats not good advice and not the way I operate.

I understand the rationale behind the desire to always use fresh media, however in this case its counter-productive and wasteful.

I will try and get some photos of 'spent' Cleaning Media and post them.
 

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Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on May 11, 2009, 01:56 AM:
 
Hi Roy,

How can we place an order?
I like 1 cleaner + conversion kit.

Hans
 

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Posted by Freddy Van de Putte (Member # 587) on May 11, 2009, 04:52 AM:
 
Congratulations, Roy!

This is very well made. It might be used as a stand alone cleaner, too.

Fred.
 

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Posted by Stewart McSporran (Member # 128) on May 11, 2009, 05:16 PM:
 
Thanks for the detailed reply Roy.

I guess that the main difference is that if you're using the cleaner for every showing then the amount of dirt transferred will be much less than if you're just using it to occasionally clean a film between rewinds.

I'd appreciate the pictures as the most expensive part of cleaning for me is not the media roll but the FilmGuard that's soaked into it. So reusing would definately make more sense.

Stewart
 

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Posted by David Markus (Member # 1579) on May 12, 2009, 01:16 AM:
 
Hi Roy,

How can I place an order?
Please email me when you get a chance.

David
 

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Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on May 12, 2009, 02:10 PM:
 
Roy, can you send me an email or post your email adress, because you have blocked the email option on the forum.
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on May 12, 2009, 03:43 PM:
 
I apologize everyone

My email isnt blocked but the forums wont let email be sent to me.

To contact me directly please email me

nrlabs 'at' comcast . net
 

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Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on May 12, 2009, 06:31 PM:
 
Roy, I tried to mail you but got this reply (of course I changed your mail adres below to avoid spam):

The original message was received at Wed, 13 May 2009 01:19:36 +0200

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<nrlabs at comcast . net>

----- Transcript of session follows -----
.. while talking to mx3.comcast.net
<<< 554 IMTA36.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast 84.244.147.211 Comcast block for spam. Please see http://help.comcast.net/content/faq/BL000000
.. connection error: connection reset by peer/timeout
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on May 12, 2009, 08:59 PM:
 
I added spaces to throw the spambots and that was probably confusing

You have the "nrlabs@" part correct, but there were spaces in "comcast . net"

try "comcast.net" ( no spaces ) - sorry

-
update
-

Im fairly certain the 'send email to forum member' is not functioning as each time I try to send email to anyone it says the user has blocked their email address. I have verified in my profile that 'forum member may send me email' but I think it is failing.

David I tried to send you an email and was told the address is blocked

Again - anyone trying to email me please do so directly

nrlabs 'at' comcast.net

[ May 13, 2009, 03:08 AM: Message edited by: Roy Neil ]
 

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Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on May 13, 2009, 03:36 AM:
 
Hi Roy,

No, I used your mail correctly without blanks.
Do you have another mail adress where I can reach you?

Hans
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on May 13, 2009, 04:50 AM:
 
My email seems to be working, Im not sure why the emails you are sending wont get thru Hans.

Here is an alternate email address associated with the video editing software I have developed

videoglue 'at' hotmail.com
 

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Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on May 13, 2009, 12:37 PM:
 
I'm either getting confused or getting the wrong message. Pardon my ignorance, but as I've never been involved with this cleaning method can someone give clear answers to two questions?

1. Is this method,using "media rolls" for actual film cleaning or just for keeping previously cleaned film clean?
2. Is the "media roll" a cleaner in its own right or must it be "soaked in Filmguard" to be effective?

Martin
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on May 14, 2009, 03:22 AM:
 
No problem Martin, here is an excerpt from the user manual.

Film-O-Clean is a self-contained film cleaner which mounts both on a movie projector to clean as you project, and on a bench for cleaning between rewinds.

Designed to be safe and effective, Film-O-Clean incorporates a film-driven mechanism to automatically advance the Cleaning Media so fresh media is always in contact with film. As film travels through Film-O-Clean, the Drive Wheel rotates to power the internal gearing which automatically advances the Cleaning Media.

Two independent spools of Cleaning Media remove debris from both sides of film simultaneously. When used during projection, one spool of Cleaning Media provides approximately 3~4 hours of cleaning time for 16mm and more than 6 hours for Super 8. Cleaning Media may be rewound and reused several times before requiring replacement. Film-O-Clean provides many advantages when used in conjunction with a film projector.

Several mounting fixtures are available and Film-O-Clean may be used on any film projector or between rewinds. This modular and portable design enables Film-O-Clean to be moved from one projector to another easily, and also moved to the rewind bench for stand-alone cleaning.

Film-O-Clean is crafted to strict tolerances using top quality materials to provide a smooth and near-frictionless movement which is safe for use with any film stock. Film endures more stress traveling through a film projector than through Film-O-Clean.

Film-O-Clean is designed to safely clean film wet or dry.

Film-Tech Cleaning Media may safely be used ‘Dry’, however, more effective cleaning results from pre-soaking the Cleaning Media with a Film Cleaning solution.

Film-O-Clean has been tested extensively with FilmGuard™ ( www.Film-Tech.com) and to a limited degree with FilmRenew™( www.urbanskifilm.com ) both with satisfactory results.

Pre-soak the Cleaning Media with a Film Cleaning solution and Film-O-Clean performs Wet-Gate style projection. Wet-Gate projection works to visibly hide base scratches by cleaning scratches and filling voids with solution. Additionally, Wet-Gate projection lubricates film for smoother projection and may help prevent film damage/scratches.

Constructed of Delrin™/Acetal, Norprene™, Buna-N™, Stainless Steel, Bronze and Aluminum, Film-O-Clean is compatible with a wide range of chemicals and solvents – however – please consult the MSDS for your particular film cleaning solution to determine chemical compatibility (http://www.msds.com/)

Whichever Film Cleaning Solution is used, please consult the product documentation for any pertinent information regarding proper usage and any restrictions.

IMPORTANT: Highly evaporative and volatile film cleaning solutions are NOT recommended for use in Wet-Gate projection. The toxic fumes associated with these highly evaporative cleaning solutions require extensive ventilation for use within an enclosed projection booth. Film cleaning solutions such as FilmRenew™ are best used between rewinds and with adequate ventilation.

FilmGuard™ is the recommended film cleaning solution for use in Wet-Gate projection and produces no toxic fumes or strong odors.
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on May 19, 2009, 02:18 AM:
 
Ok Folks..

I have been in contact with Brad Miller to get the 'de facto standard' by which Cleaning Media should be used.

The reuseability of Cleaning Media is highly subjective and likewise dependant upon several factors including ( but not limited to ) quantity of dirt on film, 'type' of dirt on film, film tension, film speed, film warp, 'if' cleaning solution is being used and the type of cleaning solution in use.

In a THEATRICAL environment Brad will reuse the cleaning media on the same print.

In a NON-THEATRICAL environment Brad says, "It should be changed anytime a different print is to be cleaned on those media pads, but many people have successfully used one set of pads on 2 different 'similarly dirty' prints before with perfect success"

Bear in mind that Brad is talking about 35mm films which become very dirty very quickly/easily as compared to 16mm and Super8. Likewise 35mm is used in professional venues where projectionists dont often care about their craft - versus collectors whose prints tend to be handled more carefully.

So ...

There are a number of concerns and constraints that come into play and there is no 'one' safe answer for 'how dirty is too dirty' in terms of reusing/replacing cleaning media.

Officially ? I have to take the position of " Change the Cleaning Media after one use for maximum safety, and reuse Cleaning Media at your discretion. The user must determine when the Cleaning Media requires replacement or may be rewound and reused, based upon the debris on the Cleaning Media. "

UN-Officially ? I will say you can 'probably' reuse the Cleaning Media many times - UNLESS your prints are very dirty. I have reused the cleaning media as I posted previously with great success... but my prints arent covered in sand.

The bottomline is use your common sense - if you are cleaning sand or grit off your film .. change the media since that can scratch your film. If the film is 'dusty' or has tape residue or grease .. its probably ok to reuse the media.
 

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on May 19, 2009, 07:56 PM:
 
I plan on using Roy's great device for wet gate projection, not as a substitute for cleaning on rewinds. I'm sure the media can be reused a number of times if you're not cleaning a print for the first time.
There are many things one should look for while cleaning. We've all heard the staple and scotch tape stories, but you need to check for sprocket damage, bad splices, accordion-like sections, and also that last bit of film that comes off the feed reel. I once ran a film where the tail section was folded over twice and it broke the threading guide on my Bauer.

Doug
 

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Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on May 19, 2009, 08:16 PM:
 
roy i sent you a email hope you get it thanks
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on May 20, 2009, 03:34 AM:
 
Jim - yes I received your email and I will send you information

Thanks Doug

Actually I think once you give it a try you will probably want to use it between rewinds as well - it cleans very consistently ( and more safely ) than cleaning manually.

On the other hand, the body of what you described in terms of a 'first cleaning' I refer to as an 'inspection ' - and I completely agree that all inspection should be done slowly, methodically, and 'By-Hand'. I always inspect prints before I project them for the first time, 35mm is especially critical in this regard.

I use both the Kelmar Cleaner ( 35mm ) and Film-O-Clean ( 16 and 8 ) to clean film between rewinds - but I always inspect prints By-Hand.
 

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Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on June 11, 2009, 09:21 AM:
 
Hi Roy, any news about the filmcleaners?

Hans
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on June 11, 2009, 04:51 PM:
 
Hans I have begun shipping Film-O-Clean, and I have you on the list already.

Send me an email at nrlabs /at/ comcast.net and we can finalize your order.
 

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Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on June 12, 2009, 03:40 AM:
 
Thanks Roy, I will send you a mail.
 

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Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on June 12, 2009, 03:04 PM:
 
Roy, did you receive my mail?
 

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Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on June 12, 2009, 07:21 PM:
 
Hi Hans,

Yes - it was in my inbox - you should have a reply
 

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Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on August 28, 2009, 05:57 PM:
 
Hi Roy,

I send you a mail, but didn't get a reply.
I was wondering when you'll be able to send me a filmcleaner.
Hopefully everything goes well with manufacturing them.
 

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Posted by Wayne Tuell (Member # 1689) on November 07, 2009, 03:38 PM:
 
For what it is worth, I'm super happy with my film-o-clean. I was able to get one of the first production run units for 16mm. I won't even run my projector without it anymore.

I even have the adapter kit & brackets for S8mm and my pedestal machine ordered as well as a second unit for my cleaning/splicing bench.
 

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Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 31) on November 07, 2009, 04:17 PM:
 
Roy email sent, thank you.
 

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on November 07, 2009, 04:42 PM:
 
I'll write up a review of Roy's Film-O-Clean shortly, but I want to let everyone know that it is a superb bit of craftsmanship that finally allows me to fulfill my dream of wet gate projection. No wet dream jokes, please.
Lines and scratches disappear, and the image looks great!

Doug
 

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Posted by Hans van der Sloot (Member # 494) on January 19, 2010, 03:03 AM:
 
How about that review Doug?
I ordered one too and have high expectations of this filmcleaner.
 

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Posted by Joseph Garner (Member # 1922) on January 26, 2010, 07:37 PM:
 
Roy did you ever make your 8mm or S8mm film cleaner? If so where can I get more info on the type of units it will work on. I have a TOBIN TVT D8C Which is a reworked Bell and Howell. Let me know please.
Joe Garner
 

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on January 26, 2010, 07:41 PM:
 
Joseph,

Welcome to the forum! Info on Roy's great cleaner can be found on his website.

Hans,

I'll be posting that review very soon.

Doug
 

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Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 26, 2010, 07:53 PM:
 

quote:

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Lines and scratches disappear

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