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Author Topic: I need your input!!!
John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Deptford,N.J.
Registered: Mar 2008

- posted December 04, 2008 09:17 PM      Profile for John W. Black   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm currently writing a book on Blackhawk Films.I am interviewing many of the people associated with Blackhawk,including Martin Phelan. I'm hoping to have the book ready by fall of 2009. What I would like is your input into what you would like to see included in the book. My special email is johnnyraoul@yahoo.com. I thank everyone in advance.

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

- posted December 04, 2008 09:49 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, I think that this is obvious, but a COMPLETE list of Blackhawk titles and, if possible, film stocks used for the color releases.

Perhaps another chapter on the "after story". That is what happened to all the negatives, (as they were still used after the film company was closed.

How they acquired they're negatives in the first place?

This could be a wonderful read!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

- posted December 04, 2008 10:51 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Companies such as this have literally saved numerous titles from extinction -- lost camera negatives, nitrate prints now decomposed, etc., duped to safety film and reductions. Surely there are some dramatic little stories to be had here.

Or, when did they decide to shoot some of their own titles -- like train movies.

I was once shocked to stick my head in a film class screening of a 1920s title only to see the familier Blackhawk logo at the head! At that point I had only seen them in 8mm. This was a 35mm screening, and it was stunning to see such an old picture look so clear.

How much 35mm did Blackhawk do?

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 05, 2008 12:21 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How about pictures of various Blackhawk's generic box? (I have made one particular posting about that here, you can search).

cheers,

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Winbert

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted December 05, 2008 06:58 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
35mm Blackhawk??

Wow, thats news to me.

-Mike

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 05, 2008 08:42 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You already know what I think

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 05, 2008 08:56 AM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Holy Cow! Great Great News!!!! I think it's wonderful that you're doing this! I'll take 2 copies, please! One for show - and one to go!

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

- posted December 05, 2008 10:15 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll (hic) have one to go! (hic hic)

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Deptford,N.J.
Registered: Mar 2008

- posted December 05, 2008 11:54 AM      Profile for John W. Black   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the replies.All of the info you seek will be covered.The negatives are in California,owned by David Shepard.Kent Eastin was a huge train buff and shot a lot of the railroad films himself.

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

- posted December 05, 2008 01:02 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mr Shepard must have a rather substantial amount of storage. We hope.

Thank you, John. We'll look forward to the final results!

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Jim Carlile
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Burbank, California, USA
Registered: Apr 2007

- posted December 06, 2008 10:03 PM      Profile for Jim Carlile     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The interesting deals they made with big companies, like Sears and Wards, that helped spread film collecting around. And their big push with 8mm sound, which really popularized the format.

Sears really promoted both 8mm sound and Blackhawk (anyone ever seen the Sears 8mm promotional short with Vincent Price about how to make sound movies at home? Circa 1964? I never have....just in their catalog)

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John Hourigan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 301
From: Colorado U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2003

- posted December 06, 2008 10:15 PM      Profile for John Hourigan   Email John Hourigan       Edit/Delete Post 
This is great news -- you can count on me to order at least two copies!

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

- posted December 07, 2008 12:57 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jim ...

I would LOVE to find a copy of that Vincent Price Promo film!
WOW! talk about a rarity!

Also, John, if you could talk about the switch in film labd that Blackhawk sometimes did, as it did effect the quality of Blackhawk's prints for awhile.

There was that golden period when the prints were magnificent, than a period, (I believe from the mid to late seventies or early eighties), when the quality control went downhill a little bit, THEN that great period in the 80's when the prints went WAY back up in quality until the end.

Also, how Blackhawk aquired the masters for nearly the entire Ub Iwerks animation collection, as well as the master material for the many Van Buren animated films (Felix the Cat and the Goose that Laid the Golden Egg, for instance), as these master negative cannot have been far removed from the original camera negative. I am still shocked at the incredibly rich color of the Van Buren, Felix the Cat cartoon, "Bold King Cole", I mean, it really looks restored, it's that good!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Deptford,N.J.
Registered: Mar 2008

- posted December 07, 2008 01:19 PM      Profile for John W. Black   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So far,everything you have asked about will be addressed.I am interviewing the people at Bonine Labs,which did all the lab work till the mid 70s.I have access to all the contracts Blackhawk had for distribution rights.Everything I can get info on will be included.It is far more than I originally thought.Your support will be greatly needed when I am ready to pull my hair out indexing all the releases!Thanks for the input.

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

- posted December 07, 2008 02:49 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have no more hair to pull out!

I was always fascinated at some of the animated titles that they rescued from destruction. For instance, there were two films done by an australian animator (and his studio), one of which was "Rabbit Stew", and then there is the lovely animated release of the Coronet educational film's "The Littlest Angel" (which I happen to have an L.P.P. print of in those delightful Blackhawk silver boxes).

We have so much to be thankful for from Blackhawk. I really envy you, John, on being able to talk to all those fine folks as well as perusing all that great Blackhawk info ...

Your probably making one Joe Caruso Quite Jealous!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Panayotis A. Carayannis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 969
From: Athens,Greece
Registered: Jul 2008

- posted December 07, 2008 03:52 PM      Profile for Panayotis A. Carayannis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John
WOW !!

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 963
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

- posted December 07, 2008 08:05 PM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How about a listing of the biggest sellers?

I would guess that the most popular would have been the Laurel and Hardy films, with Chaplin and Our Gang not far behind. I guess this by the amount of space these subjects received in every catalog (some subjects only appeared every 3rd or 4th catalogue) and the amount of prints that show up used on ebay and in dealers lists.

What volumes of films were they selling each week in say the peak years of the mid-late 1970's would also be of interest.

David

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John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Deptford,N.J.
Registered: Mar 2008

- posted December 08, 2008 12:12 AM      Profile for John W. Black   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So many questions! Actually,the peak years were mid-60s to early 70s, Yes and L & H,Chaplin,Our gang were the biggest sellers. What made Blackhawk great was Kent eastin would issue films that he knew there was only a small market for,but releasing them for
.historical content.To put it bluntly,he was one of us!

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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Jeff Chaney
Junior
Posts: 20
From: Long Beach, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2008

- posted December 08, 2008 01:36 AM      Profile for Jeff Chaney   Email Jeff Chaney   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David shephard is no dummy, he has spread his holdings out around most of the major archives, and he seems to have worked out deals where by he has them cover the costs off housing and maintaining the collections in exchange he lets them use his material at times and then perhaps he uses theirs when issuing the more recent dvd releases he has been involved in.
It would be hard to imagine film collecting without blackhawk, I only wish pathescope would have taken the care and attention to presenting films as close to their original release version as did blackhawk.

I would love to know about the relationship between blackhawk and other similar companies (most notably Niles, and to a lesser degree EmGee) because sometimes there would be the same titles offered, some of which looked like dupes off blackhawk material.

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 08, 2008 06:32 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jealous? Not in the least, I'm eager to help and help I will - John has complete access to every item I have on Blackhawk, bulletins, articles, etc and if he needs a particular film-box code, I probably have it [Smile]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted December 08, 2008 10:25 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John

When you have finished your book, how about one on Britain's Walton Films?

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Maurice

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

- posted December 09, 2008 10:47 AM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great to hear, Jeff, thanks for the info.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 09, 2008 01:04 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, I would like to see lots of photos included in your book. Maybe pictures showing the key personnel in the company, photos of the various activities at the Davenport facility, pictures of the various film box covers, pages from the monthly catalog that they sent out etc.
Blackhawk were also involved in the sale of the ill-fated RCA Selectavision video-disc player system - you might want to research that a little bit. And they had that funny leasing
program of the later Chaplin movies, where you signed a lease agreement and agreed to return the film after 20 years or so!

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John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Deptford,N.J.
Registered: Mar 2008

- posted December 10, 2008 12:55 AM      Profile for John W. Black   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the publisher allows me,I plan on a large photo section.As for the Selectavision and other later problems,I'm looking into that.But there are many conflicting stories I have to sort through.

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1375
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003

- posted December 10, 2008 05:28 AM      Profile for James N. Savage 3     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Also, I've come across some sepia tone prints through the used film circuit, yet ALL of the prints I ever bought from them from 1975-1984, were on black and white stock.

I'm curious about that.

Thanks for your research John!

James.

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