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Topic: Speed Adjustment on Eumig Projecters

Brad Anesi
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From: Tuxedo NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 23, 2009 01:33 PM

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As I'm learning more than perhaps I ever intended about 8mm projectors, I'm somewhat torn between getting a quality unit like a Eumig, or something like a Chinon 2500. FWIW, there's a somewhat emotional pull towards the Eumig, as I am of Austrian descent.

In any event, I know I'll want to be able to adjust to 20 fps for when I do any transfers. Naturally, this is what led me to the Chinon, and it's many private-labelled brothers. I don't believe that any of the Eumings have a rheostatically-controlled speed adjustment that is externally accessed - yes, no, maybe?

As I understand it, many (most?) of the projectors which have a speed control switch with fixed settings, have rheostats inside which can accomplish the fine adjustment I'm looking for. Is this generally true for the Eumigs? Feel free to provide any precise recommendations in this regard, but it's the 500, 600, and 800 series that seem to be the most common ones I'm finding.

Thanks! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

--------------------
Brad

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Osi Osgood
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From: Mountian Home, ID.
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posted April 23, 2009 05:26 PM

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Brad,

You don't have a choice, GO FOR THE EUMIG!! It is an incredible projector. Most people on this forum are divided as to which one is truly the better, the GS1200 or the various EUMIG's.

The Eumig's have very superior sound, and the stereo units have, in my opinion, (and I'm not alone), the best stereo sound reproduction!

Now, onto that question ...

For most EUMIGS, adjusting the speed of the projectors is actually quite easy, I'll use my own as an example. I have the earlier model 926 STEREO! This 926 has a beautiful recording console on it, much like a professional studio recording unit.

Perhaps Paul can put up a photo of that console?

There is one main belt on this projector. All that has to be done to increase speed is to take that belt and move it over the right pulley!

I hope that helps. Oh and, by the way ...

BUY THE EUMIG!! (926 and 938 stereo projectors are magnificent!)

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Dan Lail
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From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
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posted April 23, 2009 05:45 PM

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Osi, I think Brad is talking about a variable speed adjustment.

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Brad Anesi
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posted April 23, 2009 05:50 PM

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Yes, Dan is correct. Everything I've read indicates that for optimal transfer, I'll want a rheostar control to dial in exactly the speed I need.

Keep in mind too, sound reproduction is a total non-issue for me, as everything I have is silent. Now I suppose I might pick up a film with sound at some point for kicks, but it's very low on the priority list.

--------------------
Brad

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Kevin Faulkner
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posted April 23, 2009 06:13 PM

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Osi, I'm no expert with the Eumigs but I thought the belt change was for 50/60Hz adjustment? Can anyone confirm this?

With the earlier machines with the rubber disc you alter the position of the drive within the disc to change the speed. I dont know if that is the same arrangement with the later machines?

As for the sound quality I beg to differ on that point. Everyone listens to the sound coming out of the built in speakers and I would agree that the Eumigs and many other machines knock spots off the Elmo's. Now plug in some good speakers to a GS1200 and place them by the screen and listen to the sound. It can be awesome.
I think Elmo (quite rightly) decided that a stereo machine would be used with speakers near or at the front of the audience so why go to the expense of high quality speakers in the machine.
I have a pair of the Elmo ES1000 speakers which I use with my GS1200 and the sound can knock the spots off other machines. Why have stereo coming out of a machines built in speakers which is situated behind the audience? they will not hear the benefit of it from two speakers 1ft apart.
Also I can say now that the Elmo machines can produce sound with lower levels of mains hum. Why did Cresta develop a unit to reduce hum specifically for Eumig machines?

Sorry mate but I disagree with your arguments. You need to own an Elmo GS1200 to appreciate what it can do and the quality you can get from it. I have done many recordings on my machine and they can sound quite Hi-Fi like but the Eumigs can sound more boom and less treble.
The Eumigs were designed to sound nice out of the box but set up an Elmo properly and you will be rewarded with very nice, sweet, rich sound.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Alan Rik
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posted April 23, 2009 07:13 PM

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I concur! Physically the Eumig Speakers are larger so it would make sense that they sound better. But if you are going to hook up the units to speakers...the Elmo GS1200's have fantastic sound! Also believe it or not.. the Beaulieu 708EL Stereo has really nice sound too. (its just finicky about which tracks it chooses to sound good on!)
The Elmo GS1200 hooked up to speakers sounds great with my 2.0 set up..but when it was used with a Pro Logic Receiver it sounded awesome. I first heard it that way at Keith Wilton's place and I thought he was using a DVD to synch with..nope. It was the little magnetic tracks booming out "Fantasia" with an Elmo GS1200 and a Pro Logic System. Wow.
Of course the best sound I have ever recorded with came from the Goko 8008...but hey...didn't I say that in another thread? [Smile]

[Smile]

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Osi Osgood
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posted April 23, 2009 08:42 PM

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Kevin and Alan ...

I wasn't speaking of the sound output from the internal speaker on the projector. As with the ELMO, (plugging it into an outside source or speakers), I wasn't measuring the sound quality on the one mono speaker on the actual projector.

I plug my EUMIG directly into my amplifier and Dolby stereo surround unit, and I can tell you, it sounds wonderful! I was listening to the "Magical Mystery Tour" Stereo yesterday on that selfsame EUMIG.

Now personally, I pushed the volume as high as I could when I recorded, which, of course, allows for less tape or source "hiss", and a lot depends on how good that balance stripe, (whether very spindly or a nice "fat" balance stripe), but I can tell you, even without surround sound noise reduction, the sound was crystal clear! Amazing what sound quality you can get on those old brown mag stripes, even on thirty year old prints!

Now, I will confess that I have not had the pleasure to hear a ELMO GS1200 in a long time, but I never remember it sounding that good.

Sorry to ramble on off topic.

BUY A EUMIG!!

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Dan Lail
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From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
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posted April 23, 2009 08:56 PM

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Sorry, but the GS-1200 is the God Of All Super 8 projectors. Eumigs and everything else are Saints. [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

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Alan Rik
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posted April 23, 2009 09:18 PM

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I have had the opportunity to hear both. They are both really wonderful actually. Both are high fidelity..very similar.
I would not say that the Eumig was superior to the Elmo or vice versa. I would say they both have very pristine and clean audio playback.
Its possible that the one that you heard Osi was not in such good shape. I have had many GS's over the years and all of them with the exception of one sounded fantastic. I think the one that was subpar needed new heads as it came from a school or library and had definitely had lead a 'hard' life.
Back to the original topic I think the Elmo ST-180E is a good candidate for transfers as well. They are definitely kinder to films than the Chinons. I haven't tried using the Eumigs for transfer but I did try the Elmo. The Elmo worked great.

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Brad Anesi
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posted April 23, 2009 09:44 PM

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So yea, back to the original question... Does anyone know how easily the film speeds can be adjusted on the Eumig Super 8 / 8mm projectors?

--------------------
Brad

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Dan Lail
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posted April 23, 2009 10:05 PM

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Brad, you would need a speed control knob to gradually change the speed from fast to slow.

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John Hermes
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posted April 23, 2009 10:59 PM

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"So yea, back to the original question... Does anyone know how easily the film speeds can be adjusted on the Eumig Super 8 / 8mm projectors?"

On the Eumig 700 and 800 series, there is stop with a set screw on the shaft which adjusts how far up the speed selector switch will go. This will adjust the speed, but it is very time consuming and a trial and error procedure to adjust it. I would really recommend an Elmo with the adjustable speed pots, like an ST-180E or ST-600.

--------------------
John Hermes

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Brad Anesi
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posted April 23, 2009 11:12 PM

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Thanks for answering my question John. So it sounds like most, if not all, of the Eumigs do not have the internal pots like the Elmos you mention. I really don't want to make a career out of this, so I may have to forgo the emotional pull to the Euming. Frankly, I'll probably lean back more towards the Chinon with their brain-dead rheostat knob available without even opening the cover.

--------------------
Brad

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Winbert Hutahaean
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posted April 24, 2009 12:12 AM

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Can someone tell me what is the range of speed adjustment can be done through that pot? 15fps - 30 fps?

thanks

--------------------
Winbert

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Dan Lail
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posted April 24, 2009 01:06 AM

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I think those internal pots on the circuit board are probably fragile and were made to be tweeked by the factory and sealed into position. Kev or John Whittle can verify this. It might not be a good idea to be turning them multiple time.

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Martin Jones
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posted April 24, 2009 04:00 AM

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Certainly the Elmo "ST range" have a motor control board (common to many of the different models) with presets which give the two basic speeds. It is not exactly rocket science for a COMPETENT electronics hobbyist to wire in an external rheostat to give incremental adjustment of both these speeds about the standard settings.

Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Osi Osgood
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From: Mountian Home, ID.
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posted April 24, 2009 10:16 AM

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DWWAAAAH!

COM-POO-TINT, dats me dats me!

I have been told I am compootint but I must be a soopeerior compootint, cuz they added an "in" at the beginning!

IN-COM-POO-TINT!

DUUUUH!

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Brad Anesi
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posted April 24, 2009 10:42 AM

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Dan wrote...
"I think those internal pots on the circuit board are probably fragile and were made to be tweeked by the factory and sealed into position."

Yes, that's correct Dan. It wasn't designed to be an end-user adjustment (like the Chinon), but from what I've read, it's pretty straight-forward with some of the Elmos and a couple others that have the pots built into the board. But yea, I agree, it's not something you want to messing with on a regular basis.

--------------------
Brad

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Steve Klare
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posted April 24, 2009 10:51 AM

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Don't a lot of Eumigs have that funky slider lever behind the takeup reel that allows for continuously variable frame rates?

I do my transfers on a Bolex SP-80 special, which is a rebadged Eumig 800 series, and this feature allows for fine tuning the FPS until the flickering stops.

The only bad part is I think Eumig meant to force users to stop projection before adjustment by putting he slider in such an awkward place, but with a little care it is possible to do the adjustment while underway.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Joerg Niggemann
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posted April 25, 2009 05:51 AM

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Many Eumigs have a speed adjustment knob which allows to adjust for every frame rate between 18 and 24 fps. This is a mechanical solution (as Kevin explained), and nowadays often suffers from aged rubber wheels. You can find that adjustment knob in many later machines of the 9xx series. For Film transfer I'd always prefer a machine with DC Motor. Every cheap Chinon with DC Motor and speed control via pot will hold the frame rate more precise than any Eumig.

When it comes to the sound question, my personal experience is that a well adjusted Eumig HQS machine (hum cancellation, BIAS) will produce HiFi-like sound which can easily cope with the GS. They have very low distortion and near linear frequency reproduction. A Eumig 9xx series machine will always have less wow than any Elmo GS because of its straight film path without tension arms.

However, for my home cinema no other machine can replace the GS!

Joerg

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Brad Anesi
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posted April 25, 2009 09:29 AM

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Joerg wrote...
Every cheap Chinon with DC Motor and speed control via pot will hold the frame rate more precise than any Eumig.

Thanks Joerg. As much as I prefer a quality product like the Elmo or Eumig represent, it sounds like a Chinon in good shape will suit my needs better. I found that even new in the early 80's, the Chinon 2500 sold for less than $100, so your comment about them being "cheap" is certainly correct. It actually surprised me somewhat that they were that inexpensive.

From what I can piece together, Chinon pretty much owned the consumer market for 8mm projectors at the retail and OEM level, as the market declined in the 80's. Rather than just exit the market entirely, several competitive manufactures private-labeled the Chinon. To some extent, I take that as an endorsement of the Chinon product for what it is - a decent cheap projector.

--------------------
Brad

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Osi Osgood
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posted April 25, 2009 09:54 AM

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I'm not knocking the Chinon's, after all, I own a 9500 opt/mag projector, (which makes pretty decent recordings, but not as good as the Eumig), but you do have to be extra careful with your prints, as the Chinon is well known as a "Film-eater"!

So good luck but be cautious.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Jim Carlile
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posted April 27, 2009 10:59 PM

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The 900 series Eumigs all have a variable speed control that works well-- it goes from approximately 16 to 24 fps. That's how you control the speed in these Eumigs.

If you slip off the back cover and change the frequency leads, you can either adjust the range upward (U.S. 60Hz to 50Hz) or down (50Hz to 60Hz).

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Dan Lail
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posted July 28, 2009 01:18 PM

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I managed to adjust the speed on a Eumig S710. It was running a little slow. Inside the back you will see where the speed change switch moves up and down. When you push the speed change switch up you can see inside the back a small round plastic part of the switch that slides in a slot. The small black plate that this slot is cut into can be move up or down by loosening the the two small flat head screws that hold it in place. I moved mine up about 3/32" and the speed increased to normal.

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Gary Crawford
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posted July 28, 2009 03:52 PM

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And it's nice on the Eumigs that you can set that speed switch on the front not just at the bottom for 18fps...and the top for 24, but anywhere inbetween....but that's what y ou get..."anywhere"...You doni't really have any idea exactly what speed it's running.

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