This is topic Ebay: bidding on someone's own items... in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.
To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004630
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on June 24, 2009, 09:40 AM:
Me and other members of this community have discovered today (there's always been something suspicious with this/these eBayer/eBayers) there's someone who really likes to bid on his own films for sale. And the price goes higher and higher.
At the end of his auctions he contacts people who tried to buy his items for sale telling ALWAYS the same, stupid story (what a limited imagination and fantasy...): that the final winner has health and money problems (why should he bid, so???) and cannot complete the transaction!
I'm definitively upset because I had the same problem with this gentleman (to be polite) some months ago. I hate the fact he pretends to be a REAL COLLECTOR. I don't think such a person, so bad, rude and not honest at all, should define himself a COLLECTOR.
So I have no problem in telling you to beware of these sellers: behind these nicks there's always the same COLLECTOR. If you think you already had a similar experience and you are quite sure we are talking about the same COLLECTOR, well, post here his other nicks, please. That's a real shame.
lous16mm
and probably more…
[ June 24, 2009, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Gian Luca Mario Loncrini ]
Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on June 24, 2009, 09:52 AM:
If you have good reason to believe that this is going on you can always alert ebay with as much detail as possible and they will examine the bidding records to find a pattern of certain people winning items consistently from the same sellers, but the items actually being sold to underbidders.
If they confirm it, they will take action.
Martin.
Posted by Jeroen van Ooijen (Member # 1104) on June 24, 2009, 09:54 AM:
And my question is,are there more people that has this experience and know this names,please warn everybody and
tell it Ebay!
And one advise use always paypal with this transactions ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on June 24, 2009, 09:54 AM:
Thanks Martin. We are already doing this. It was my intention to alert all members. I love this community and this Forum: cannot stand people like this.
Jeroen, you had the same problem with him, am I correct?
Posted by Jeroen van Ooijen (Member # 1104) on June 24, 2009, 10:01 AM:
Yes this morning,and in the past i buy Pinocchio from him for a high price because i get a second chance.
I was two times overbid for Pinocchio and this morning Peter Pan.
I'am very sad now,and really mad ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on June 24, 2009, 10:03 AM:
Be happy Jeroen: we are doing something good after something bad happened! Thanks for your support! I really appreciate. And I feel a little guilty: it was me to suggest you that print. I did not know, until today (and thanks to your info) you were trading with the same COLLECTOR I had bought from before you did.
Posted by Jeroen van Ooijen (Member # 1104) on June 24, 2009, 10:08 AM:
It wasn't your fauld believe me,nobody
knows what sick people it are!
Let judgement decide ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on June 24, 2009, 11:45 AM:
My only question is,why are you suprised? Funny,I was considered a hater in here when I pointed out the ebay problems. So here goes once again. Many ebay film dealers are NOT collectors. They have come from other hobbies where they have driven the prices through the roof and are now looking for new hobbies to plunder. You know who these people are,just don't buy from them,don't sell to them.They will go away if there is no profit to be had.These people are BAD for our hobby and will wind up pricing lots of us out by creating false value on the films.They have done this in other hobbies over the years,baseball cards,musical instruments,trains,you name it.There aren't as many real film collectors as there are in other hobbies and it only will take a few of these guys to destroy our hobby.A suggestion,sell your films here before ebay,don't look for the big killing,get fair value and DON'T sell to the ebay dealers.So,am I a hater or someone who really cares about the hobby and sees a growing problem?
Posted by Jeroen van Ooijen (Member # 1104) on June 24, 2009, 11:58 AM:
Thanks,for the advise John! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on June 24, 2009, 12:04 PM:
John, I was not really surprised at all. At the contrary, I'm really happy 'cause, thanks to other members, I discoverd at least ONE 'name'. That's all. We all know this is not a piece of news.
Luckly (or should I say unfortunately?) I do use Ebay and often find very good items and sellers. But...
A) I did not like this cheeky attitude as everyone else here, of course.
B) I do like I now know this gentleman is worse than acne.
And, reporting his nicks (two, at least. Who knows how many he uses) the community is alerted. I'm probably not the only one on the Forum buying from Ebay. Am I???
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
!
Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on June 24, 2009, 03:12 PM:
When you find this happening you should post the sellers ebay id so we'll all know. In fact we all need to keep watch because they constantly dump names when they get negative feedback and open a new seller id so we need to keep everyone up to day.
Please post the sellers ebay id if this happens repeatedly.
John
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on June 24, 2009, 03:36 PM:
Already done, John.
Thanks for suggesting.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 24, 2009, 03:45 PM:
Ive ran into this kind of thing from time to time.
I'll see an item which (for some strange reason, as far as I'm concerned), has only one bid and it looks like a steal.
So then I'll do something to catch them in the act ...
I'll put a rediculous sounding bid. Instead of just bidding 15.00 dollars or perhaps 15.50, I will bid 15.83, or perhaps 14.72 ...
Lo and behold, the auction immediately goes up to exactly my high bid amount, intimating that some else bid 14.71.
Now, it IS possible that someone else might have bid just about the same thing; after all, it's a big world, but the odds are that someone else isn't going to bid that same exact amount, with the auction being right up at that.
In one case of that, I contacted the seller and refused to pay for the item and suggested that he re-list and that I would warn all me friends on the forum. Strangely, he didn't bother to open a case against me. Could it be that he was more interested in keeping his name from being known on forum, hmmm??
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on June 24, 2009, 04:21 PM:
I cannot believe there could be people like this among real amateurs. I know I'm just 'the last one' who reached this community. This does not mean I don't love this 'world' the same way you all do.
But I CANNOT believe it at all. This space on line is a good way to make new friends all around the world, to share the same passion, to compare different approaches or ways to collect, what we like or we don't, what is rare or not, what I do like and other people don't.
This is a small space that allows us to keep this 'thing' alive. In a moment full of very bad news: Kodachrome at the end of its days, magazines not printed anymore (quite worse than negatives of good titles no longer available). This is terrible. I know my point of view is a 'romantic' one (and I don't probably want to accept all this could finish, one day, considering this digital era... A new invention is already old, the day after). But I really like this Forum, a funny space dedicated to our beloved movies, sometimes red or pink; to our projectors, even if so old, falling down in small pieces, making strange noises, sometimes scratching our films, but always making us so happy. This is part of the fun. And WE TOO are part of the fun. All of us.
I cannot belive people doing this could be members of such a friendly community.
Am I funny? I don't think so. I don't understand ANYTHING when a projector has a problem. I need other collectors to be in a position to repair it. I need people I can find here. And always giving their help. For nothing, understand? FOR NOTHING. Tell me how many things we can enjoy for nothing, nowadays? How many?
But this doesn't mean I don't love or respect home cinema (as we consider it here) the same way other more-than-collectors do.
I feel someone 'important', here, 'cause I keep all this ALIVE day by day. And I'm proud of it. Not more than a rain drop in a lake (I cannot say 'SEA'. We are just a limited number of crazy people). But ONE drop, at least.
That's, once more, the main reason why I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS. Sorry if I appear so pathetic. Probably I am. But, at 38 and after 30 years I've been spending collecting super 8, believe me: I'm not going to change anymore!
[ June 24, 2009, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Gian Luca Mario Loncrini ]
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 24, 2009, 04:58 PM:
... and there is no need for you to change, my friend Gian.
For like so many others on this forum, though we all have our faults, whether known or unknown, I would say that 95 or more percent of the people on this forum, our illustrious members, (I only say 95 or more percent as there are no doubt a few that are being "naughty"), are good, honorable, word keeping men and women of character.
Good character, whether is a religious or non-religious way, (as religious people don't have a cornered market on good character, quite the contrary, as the only people that have gossiped about me in my hometown I have traced to those who I have attended services with) is becoming the rarity instead of the norm. It used to be the other way around.
A handshake was your word.
"Cash on the barrel-head" ... as it used to be said.
The people on this forum I have found to be of good form. The benefit to sharing about these louses out there, (that's right, LOUSES!) that take advantage of true collectors, is that others will not be taken advantage of in the future.
Never make an apology for being of honorable character, or pining for a perhaps long ago time when there was good character abounding, (though I would be curious as to when that was), for it is an absolute truth that when those of good character stay silent, those louses in the world become out-spoken and take advantage of the good.
Good is always stronger than evil. It's just that the good forget that fact and stay silent. Only when the good stay silent can the evil in society take over, (and the evil know it).
So, continue to expose the louses and our forum will continue to flourish. Expose the charlatans (true charlatans, and not those that someone may just be wanting to pick a fight with), and the rest of the forum is just that much safer than it was before.
I absolutely LOVE this forum, (gee, isn't that obvious?!) and I will defend it as well as I possibly can!
Long live the Forum!! Down with LOUSES!
Posted by Mike Tynus (Member # 1108) on June 24, 2009, 05:03 PM:
Gian,
Well thanks for smearing my name. I am rugolo47, and I DO NOT BID ON MY OWN FILMS OR SEND PHONEY MESSAGES TO PEOPLE!
I just started selling on Ebay for the first time only 2 weeks ago. Where does it show I bid on my own items?
I am a true film collector and I give films away for gifts from time to time. I enjoy giving films for free to members when I can. I even gave you a film, and now you put my user name up as a scamer?
WHY?
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on June 24, 2009, 05:15 PM:
Myke
if 3 members of the community had the same problem on Ebay, more or less in the same period, this is a real interesting casuality.
Anyway, my point of view (POINT OF VIEW, not OPINION ABOUT YOU) doesn't change. I can only apologize and delete your nick from the topic post. I could not know r*** were you. But, once more, I thing it's quite strange the same story, THE SAME ONE, happened to several people.
Once more, I'm sorry. A good friend of mine, also member of this community, was today very sad for what I have explained in my topic post. I was really upset for him.
If you are not 'the one', once more, sorry. Public apologizes. I have to be sincere: you have always been very kind to me. No problem in admitting I was probably wrong.
Posted by Jeroen van Ooijen (Member # 1104) on June 24, 2009, 05:25 PM:
Mike,forgive me,but it is a littlebit strange that you sell an item on Ebay while you are on this forum.
If i sell an super8 movie then i say it here first on the forum and i give the link.
I asked so many times for Peter Pan look first here when you sell something it is a cheaper way to sell something,and we all friends i thought:(
Next time let us know!
Posted by Mike Tynus (Member # 1108) on June 24, 2009, 06:40 PM:
Gian,
I appreciate your apology. I would still like to know why you thought that I was a seller that would pull tricks.
What did you see from me that made you red flag me? I never did anything like was implied in your post. This has made me hurt in the extreme. I always help members out not just with film but with projector parts when I have spares. Then recently I thought I would try Ebay selling to see what it was like. To my mind it was alright, otherwise Doug Meltzer wouldn't post links to people's auctions, much less allow it.
Jeroen, I didn't mean to upset you. I did not know you were looking for Peter Pan. So are people like Alan Rick, Dan Lail, et al bad people for having sold on Ebay? I've won and lost auctions from them, but I would never post upset for having lost. And I've never seen people attacked for posting links to their auctions.
It's funny that for all my good film collector intentions it takes just one post to make me suddenly look bad, greedy and evil.
I'm very sad indeed.
Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on June 24, 2009, 09:24 PM:
Look,for this great hobby to survive,we have to band together as collectors. One way to be wary of a seller on ebay is check his other items for sale.If there seems to be a lot of different collectables,you can be pretty sure he is a professional seller with NO regard to our hobby. Refuse to buy from him. Smoke him out. I'm sorry if I'm not politically correct,but PC is a very bad joke. The only correct is just correct and it knows no affiliation.As such,are these type od dealers crooks? Not really,but you are kidding yourself if you think these people care about the hobby.As a longtime collector i.e. before the internet,I hate what communication.or lack of it has done to the hobby. And if some people might vent on here,thats good because instead of hiding a real problem,we can address it.If you would like to pay $100 for a digest sometime soon,keep patronising these guys.Ask some people who have collected other things and ask what happened to their hobby.Because of the great forums,we can nip it in the bud.
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on June 24, 2009, 11:24 PM:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Forum members choosing to sell their films on eBay first. I've bought & sold on eBay, I've bought & sold on this Forum, and I've sold to non-eBay dealers (of the highest integrity) because they needed product to sell.
Sometimes when you need to make some money it just makes more sense to put a classified ad in a newspaper that has a circulation of over 5 million as opposed to your local gazette.
One can't be altruistic all the time. Moreover, not every local sale has gone smoothly, either.
Osi,
Just to make sure....are you saying that the seller was (is) a Forum member?
Doug
Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on June 24, 2009, 11:46 PM:
I agree oug,there is nothing wrong with selling excess film on ebay. The point is,there are also professional ebay sellers who dive into hobbies solely to drive up prices and their own profits. This isn't a theory,it is a fact.There is a big difference between us who use ebay fairly and those who are trying to make a killing at our expense.And if we chose to ignore it,we are only hurting ourselves.And yes.some are members here.
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on June 25, 2009, 04:12 AM:
Mike,
public apologizes once more. Not only to you, but to the whole community. Believe me: yesterday it was a very bad day, for me. You don't have to mind at all. But, once more, I like here. So I did not mean to hurt anybody. No more posts, in future, mentioning names, nicks etc.
Posted by Jeroen van Ooijen (Member # 1104) on June 25, 2009, 05:08 AM:
Yes for me too Mike,sorry for my bad thinking,but this was the thirth time i was overbid for a Derann and everytime it was the same person,and strange but true,the person that overbid me could'nt pay the movie,and finally i must pay the max bid,because they give me a second chance,and that was not fair,i hope this one buy Peter Pan from you,i have found it finally,so i don't take a second chance anymore.
And Mike 1 advice let him pay the movie our mr w**i!
And very sorry for this,i hope you can laugh after all this comotion for nothing,yes for lous 16 mm but that's another story!
He is a moneymaker!
I was very sad about it yesterday and was crying like a baby that i not won Peter Pan
But someone helps me with and Peter Pan and Snow white,so i'am happy now
Greets Jeroen.
Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on June 25, 2009, 05:56 AM:
Okay, so I say it once again...I'm not a collector, so perhaps I do not understand. But there is something that I do understand... A HOBBY is meant to be ENJOYABLE!!
Is it the "collecting" that's a "hobby", or is it the "presentation"? If it's the "collecting", when does "collecting" cease to be a "hobby" and become an "addiction"? What makes it a "must have" situation?
I enjoy acquiring equipment and renovating it to the level that it performs like it used to. But I would never buy anything that was overpriced, simply because "I haven't got one of those so I have to have it". (And because I do not have a lot of money to spare, anyway!)
The real problem with ebay lies with the fact that it makes everything too available; AND with the Buyer that "must have at all costs". The only way to beat this problem is to resist temptation and look for other sources; the flea markets, car boot sales and the dealers who will state their price and perhaps haggle. And if you MUST use ebay only look at "Buy it Now", then make offers, and only buy if the price is one you are genuinely prepared to pay.
Oh yes, and actually enjoy the "collection" you've got. A HOBBY is meant to be ENJOYABLE !!
Martin
Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on June 25, 2009, 06:35 AM:
My own experience is that "...flea markets, and car-boot sales..." do not yield much in the way of original 16mm prints.
Ebay is very much a part of collecting 16mm film, like it or loathe it. Perhaps, for Super 8 its different.
-Mike
[ June 25, 2009, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Michael O'Regan ]
Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on June 25, 2009, 08:59 AM:
I have posted items here for sale first to test the waters. No replies! So I went to Ebay and sold part of this huge collection. However I always leave it up in the air if someone wants to purchase the item directly I give them a price and stop the auction. And if we have dealt with each other before than I usually will lower the price. I find that high ticket items don't sell well on this forum unless its a very rare item. I sold an Elmo GS1200 Xenon here to Steven Sigel. However my Beaulieu 708El Stereo couldn't sell so it sold on Ebay.
I think if you know how much a print is worth this a great place to sell. But if you don't know Ebay is a nice barometer.
I am a collector and I think I do what others do. Not to make money...but to get more things for your collection! With the money I received from the Ebay sales I was able to get a Bauer T610 and sync unit, Goko 8008 etc.
I remember once bidding on a Sankyo 800 Stereo with a 1.0 lens. I was outbid 3 times...first at $150, then $300 and then finally at $375. Then I stopped bidding because I caught myself in the mode of trying to "win".
Literally a few weeks later it was on Ebay again for $799!!!!
Exact same machine. (Ironically it was purchased by a forum member here when the seller couldn't sell it and ended up getting it for around $300-so the seller lost money. But the winner here ended up with a non repairable machine so he sold me the 1.0 lens.)
What can you do? I myself have purchased something cheaper than it was worth only to sell it at a higher cost. As Doug says it would be nice to be altruistic all the time but its not a reality.
That is fair..but shill bidding is not. Sad thing is that a year or so ago when you could see the bidding history it was easier to tell. You could see a bidder come in at the last minute with zero feedback trying to uncover the previous "reserve" that the high bidder has. Finds it and then retracts his bid.
With the new Ebay system you cannot see anything. Lends itself to the possibility of more scams.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 25, 2009, 09:26 AM:
That's what I have done Alan! I sell in order to raise money for my hobby and nothing more. I couldn't justify taking money out of my wife's and kid's mouth to feed my obsessive hobby, (hee hee hee).
Doug, I was looking at my first post on this series of posts and couldn't figure out where you were going with your question. Would love to reply though. Could you please give a quote from it and I'll certainly explain myself.
cheers!
Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on June 25, 2009, 10:13 AM:
Osi,
I believe that Gian Luca inferred from your post that the seller you were going to expose was a Forum member.
Doug
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 25, 2009, 01:25 PM:
Doug ...
Aaah, I see. A mis-understanding. I didn't even know who the seller was, and I had no intention of exposing anybody. What I was writing about was that, whether a forum member or not, IF a seller has acted improperly, they should be exposed, that's all, but I wasn't going to expose anybody myself.
Sorry if you got the wrong idea from my post, Gian.
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on June 25, 2009, 04:39 PM:
Osi, I did not, don't worry at all.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 25, 2009, 06:50 PM:
NO sweat Gian!
Whether good or bad, (and no bad here), my friends are always my friends!
Posted by Mike Tynus (Member # 1108) on June 25, 2009, 11:38 PM:
Hi Gian and Jeroen,
Thank you for your kind apologies and for explaining and clearing up the situation. We are all passionate about film, are we not?
Fortunately, the buyer for my film did pay for it today, so hopefully all will go well with him.
And I still hope to contribute to this hobby in any way I can.
Cheers!
Mike
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on June 26, 2009, 02:44 AM:
You are more than welcome, Mike.
I still feel bad because of the misunderstanding, believe me.
Take care.
CIAO.
Posted by Jeroen van Ooijen (Member # 1104) on June 26, 2009, 06:54 AM:
Okay,let forget the past think about the future.
Mike one question,why did you sell Peter Pan?
it is a nice feature i think,anyway i have it
finally found so it's okay.
Next time you sell a Disney tell me okay?i like
them very much.
Greets Jeroen
Posted by Mike Tynus (Member # 1108) on June 27, 2009, 03:39 AM:
Jeroen,
I sold Peter Pan because a few months ago I was stricken with a new addiction to 16mm film. So I'm for the first time attempting to sell some 8mm film in order to raise money for more 16mm titles that I have access to. I'm by no means leaving 8mm, just downsizing the collection. If I sell more Disney's I will definitely let you know. Same to Gian if I sell some Rascals as well.
Mike
Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on June 27, 2009, 04:02 AM:
Well, welcome to the 16mm world, Mike
-another Mike
Posted by Mike Tynus (Member # 1108) on June 27, 2009, 04:45 AM:
Thanks for the welcome, Mike!
I'm pretty overwhelmed right now with the seemingly limitless array of titles I've been able to track down. Not to mention the obvious print quality and ease of acquiring projectors. But it sure ain't cheap. Though I still love Super 8, I'm at the moment a little burnt out on my usual GS1200 maintenance routines.
Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on June 27, 2009, 05:09 AM:
No, 16mm ain't cheap if you want good original prints, but bargains are out there to be had. You just gotta find them. Are you a member of
www.16mmfilmtalk.com ?
Its the place to be for 16mm collecting ( and of course the 16mm section here also!!)
-Mike
Posted by Mike Tynus (Member # 1108) on June 27, 2009, 05:25 AM:
Yes, I am a member at Mr. Urbanski's site. Incredible wealth of knowledge and sales over there just as it is here. They also do a nice job of weeding out the scammers out there as well.
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on June 27, 2009, 04:20 PM:
Good to know, Mike. Just knock, in case.
Posted by Stewart McSporran (Member # 128) on June 27, 2009, 04:41 PM:
Osi - regarding your post about you bidding $14.71 and the price going up to $14.72. That's standard e-bay behaviour if the previous bidder put in a bid higher than your $14.71. E.g. if the auction starts at $5, bidder one bids $10 - ebay shows the price at $5. You then decide to put in $9.32. This is lower than Bidder 1's $10 so e-bay puts the price at $9.33 in favour of Bidder 1. I use a sniping service and see this many times.
On a more general point. I've often wondered if it wouldn't help to have a static post that ties e-bay ids to members. I don't think anyone knowing what your id is risks identity theft. I buy/sell as scratchydisk, so if anyone wants to start such a thread feel free to add me to it.
Stewart
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 27, 2009, 05:19 PM:
Stewart,
Yeah, I've known about that for a long time as well. No, on the auction I just bid on, a little while back now, I was less than a minute before the auction was done. There was a first bid.
In this case, I bid 18.14 cents. Well, what do you know, my high bid was exactly where the bid now was! I was in the lead with the high bid being exactly 18.14, and it ended without a another bid,
of course.
Too coincidental for my tastes. I bet if I had bid a mere 8.62 cents, I would have won it for that exact 8.62.
Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on June 27, 2009, 05:36 PM:
John W. Black wrote.....
quote:
The point is,there are also professional ebay sellers who dive into hobbies solely to drive up prices and their own profits. This isn't a theory,it is a fact.There is a big difference between us who use ebay fairly and those who are trying to make a killing at our expense.And if we chose to ignore it,we are only hurting ourselves.And yes.some are members here.
John, who are these members driving up prices? And who are the non-members driving up prices?
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 27, 2009, 06:59 PM:
Hey, maybe its me, (giggle), naw, not likely, I've never made much at all on ebay ... just enough to continue to buy me little "cine trinkets", which are less and less by the day.
I do hear what John is saying, though. Every once in awhile, you'll have atitle that should go for ten bucks. Lets say a STAR WARS title on Super 8, the good ole 400ft or 200ft.
This actually happened on this very title. A Star Wars 400ft came up, saying the average "Very Rare" (snicker) and apparantly, some newbie or generic Star Wars fan, and another, (or a sniper program) bid it up to 81.00 dollars!
For a few weeks after that, a lot of other people who had watched that auction, suddenly started to list thier old copies of that same title for 50.00 or more dollars as a starting bid. Needless to say, they didn't sell. Though laughable, I kind of felt sorry for everybody who were trying to get in on that "bonanza".
Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on June 27, 2009, 08:27 PM:
I will say that often in terms of silent films I think the folks who drive the prices up are those that intend to sell them on DVD, or operate their own film rental libraries since they figure being a silent film they can get away with it and not have to pay exhibition fees, etc.. I know there was a time some years ago when I was outbid daily on things (even if I put what I considered a crazy high bid) by someone named televista,,, then all of a sudden I saw a bunch of DVD's hitting the market by a company called televista...It's always gonna be there..if someone has the money they will bid high, and all it takes are 2 people wanting the same film.
Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on June 27, 2009, 11:09 PM:
Dino,
I think John W. was saying that sellers are driving the prices up.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 27, 2009, 11:14 PM:
Dan ...
I think that John W was mistaken, as a cellar is incapable of driving up anything. Number one, I have never known a cellar to even have a driver's license, let alone be capable of driving, (though this post may be driving some to drink!).
Besides this, being that a cellar tends to be down below, it seems impossible for a cellar to drive up anything. A cellar by nature must be traversed by going downhill. There are steps to take to navigate a cellar.
So, our dear John W. we are most sure that you were mistaken about cellars driving up the prices of films. I doubt even one cellar would have any idea what a price is in the first place, let alone driving it.
... and I'll be darned if a single cellar out there has even watched a single reel of film. Cellar's by nature are sedentary
and stationary.
Cellars are quite good places to grow cellary!
Though, it must be stated, that I haven't picked up a good cellary in quite awhile. It's kind of hard to pick up a good cellary when there are no jobs around!
So, I wouldn't mind a good cellar, given the proper job!
Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on June 28, 2009, 01:36 AM:
As I climb up from the cellar, I think Dan well understands what I mean. What SOME not ALL sellers are would be called speculators,you've heard the term I'm sure. As a life long musician and guitarist,I watched these "people" enter into the guitar collecting market and drive prices up to the point to where an average musician couldn't afford a nice vintage guitar because a bunch of suit and tie geeks who wouldn't know the difference between a G string and a G chord had bought up so much of the inventory and wanted prices only the rich could afford. I'm sure some here might think,what's wrong with that? And to anyone who thinks that,you have my pity. And yes boys,there are some dealers on ebay who are trying to do the same and then hide behind the old,the film is worth what the market will bear line. Just because their might be one person who could afford to overpay for a film he wants,that does not make that sale price a starting point for the next print of the same film. But when people start asking $75 for digests,it's getting crazy. And all I'm saying to fellow collectors is I've watched this in other hobbies,have friends who collected other hobbies and were slowly priced out of it by people who cared nothing for the hobby,buy just wanted to profit from it. And we would be terribly naive to think it wouldn't be happening here.
Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on June 28, 2009, 02:07 AM:
OK Dan I see now .....yes I have often wondered if there were ways for folks to have their buddies bid on things just to drive the price up, but it seems like it would be easy to catch those people....As for accusations of which sellers might do something like this i think that can be risky....Venting is one thing.... but accusing without concrete proof should be avoided.
Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on June 28, 2009, 03:13 AM:
About three years ago I bought a projector on Ebay from a seller who is a member of this forum. I was new to the hobby and also to Ebay. In the last minute of the auction I kept on being outbid and the item was won at £150 or so by someone else.
Within two minutes of the auction ending I was offered a Second-Chance buy by the seller at the end price, which I took, being totally ignorant.
Within two minutes???? Shill bidding going on there? I suspect so and will never deal with the seller again.
However, without concrete proof the seller shall remain nameless - to echo what Dino said above.
Shill bidding exists and sometimes its the sellers you least expect, it seems.
-Mike
Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on June 28, 2009, 04:32 AM:
Only one thing to do in a case like that is to tell the seller that the bidding is suspect and that you will buy at the last bid amount you made BEFORE the "unwilling to buy" bidder escalated the bidding and ,if that is not acceptable you will report the circumstances of the "second chance offer" to ebay for their "opinion".
At the same time, let's make it clear on the FORUM that that should be the normal reaction to this practice and that if a Forum member is involved the details SHOULD be published on the Forum also. If he's innocent of malpractice he's got nothing to fear and can defend himself; two or three such exposures would cast serious doubt.
But the important thing is to report EVERY such suspicion, without fail, to ebay, as a matter of course. Tell them both the Sellers name and the suspect bidders name (if available) as well as the Item number.It's your money being ripped off by a practice that is at best immoral and, at worst, illegal (criminal).
Martin
[ June 28, 2009, 06:04 AM: Message edited by: Martin Jones ]
Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on June 28, 2009, 07:23 AM:
This happened to me only recently. I was selling a camera and a bidder with 0 feedback placed a bid on my item near the end. I looked at the other bids he/she had placed and was suspicious. A number of high value items had been bid on that weekend. I cancelled his bid but what I did not know was that this showed he had placed a max bid of £2500 well well above the value of the item. Of course the winning bidder had been bid up to the reserve price so was immediately suspicious. I reported myself to ebay and was able to point out to the purchaser that I had sold an item for 99p and surely if I was shill bidding I would have bid that item up. Armed with strong positive feedback I offered to cancel the transaction.
It was sorted in the end but it left me with a bad feeling towards ebay. I never got a reply from ebay to my report and the bidder soon became a "no longer registered"
Posted by Paul Spinks (Member # 573) on June 28, 2009, 08:09 AM:
I myself have been stung by an ex member of this forum so I do understand the frustration that many of us feel, especially when we think we can trust fellow members. I work on the "Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, shame on me!" principle and never buy from these sellers again. In all my years of happy ebay trading only 2 sellers, both UK based, have stitched me up. However I do agree with Stewart's idea of posting our ebay ID's on here so that we all know who we are. My ebay ID is "toplinkdriver".
Paul.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 28, 2009, 09:05 AM:
As for me, (though I'm no longer selling), its "toac2001" ( "toac" standing for the abbreviation of "Tears Of A Clown", classic Smokey Robinson & the Miracles song).
As we all know, ebay is a mixed bag at best. When it runs as it was designed to, ebay is quite good.
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on June 28, 2009, 09:20 AM:
I did not mean to create 'a case' here (even if I know it's not a case at all but, unfortunately, the every day - or almost - 'rule'), eh eh eh. But I agree with Martin. As Osi stated, this should be done only when we are sure about 'a name'/nick. I was wrong with Mike (sorry once more).
ABSOLUTELY no dubt about LOUS16mm, whoever he/she is - they are.
Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on June 28, 2009, 01:02 PM:
First, let me say that "shill bidding" is the lowest of auction crimes. Unfortunately with eBay's policy changes, we cannot see who is bidding on any auction. You can see who the bidders are on your own auction, but not any other sellers auctions. To offer a "second chance" at a price higher than your last proxy is against all eBay rules, and should immediately set off alarms - such activity should be reported at once.
How one can know that a seller is making a "killing" is beyond me. You can always look at a seller's past thirty day sales totals and add them up, but you do not know what the profit margin is because you do not know what price the seller paid for the items sold. In addition to this, the overhead charges from both eBay and Paypal are quite exhorbitant! As far as someone paying a high price, this is the way the supply and demand market has worked for eons. You cannot control the buying price in a free market. History has shown that price control will destroy the integrity of the product and the market itself. Let's face it - some people have more money than others.
Just because a person is selling films on eBay does not automatically disqualify them from being a "film collector". I have in my collection approximately 300 16MM Features, and 150 Super 8MM Features. I also have about 2500 16MM Educationals, shorts, cartoons. In addition there are about 150 Super 8MM digests and cartoons. PLEASE NOTE - THIS IS MY PERSONAL, PRIVATE COLLECTION(I am not posting this info to be a bragger, but just to finally clarify my position in the film community). I do not have "deep pockets". This collection was obtained over many years from many sources - private collections, estate sales, eBay purchases, and forum purchases. I cannot afford to pay high prices - I determine exactly what I can and will pay for a film before placing any offers or bids. If the price exceeds my limit, then I do not get to buy that film and do not harbor any ill feelings towards the person who could pay that price. We have "free" film showings for friends and relatives on a regular basis.
I do not believe that my collection is larger or better than the collections owned by any forum member. But it has been a labor of love to find these prints and save some of them from simply being destroyed.
Having said that, let me point out to some who may not know, I once made my living as a musician. I have some beautiful vintage guitars that are merely priceless! I also collect antique radios, record players, and records(about 16,000 to date). My wife collects china cups and saucers, antique vases, and like most - clothes.
Osi, we keep all these things in our cellar, and on special ocassions allow them to come out.
Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 1337) on June 28, 2009, 01:44 PM:
I agree with Dan. If someone wants to sell a film on the bay and not even think about the forum, thats thier prerogative. The films belong to the seller and thats really all that matters. It seems as though there is a bit of a witch hunt for eBay sellers sometimes.
Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on June 28, 2009, 01:46 PM:
There was never any doubt of your integrity as a collector, (well, I should hope that there wasn't), nor do you have to defend yourself as a seller. If any have done so, then shame on them.
I admire that big collection of features!
Happen to have a good print of "Popeye Meets Ali Baba"?
(awww, you don't need it, do ya?)
On an off note, I'm kind of surprised as to how many on this forum are either presently "practicing musicians" or past musicians.
Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on June 28, 2009, 02:28 PM:
Thanks, Damien and Osi.
Osi, I once had a super 8 600' print of Popeye Meets Ali Baba, but it was very faded. I sold it for thousands. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Yes, I gigged my little brains out. It was fun too!
Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on June 28, 2009, 09:09 PM:
Thepoint is not to control the market,but not to exploit it.If you are a true collector and love the hobby and the good people in it,selling on ebay is just ducky,but my point has ALWAYS been,there are some who don't care about us or the hobby.I don't believe everyone here can't name a few ebay dealers who did them the dirt. And I think those people should be exposed,they hurt the hobby,not help it.
Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on June 28, 2009, 09:13 PM:
Okay, John. Who are they?
Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on June 28, 2009, 09:22 PM:
Oh Dan,you don't know any? Sorry,I don't believe you. Years ago Classic Images had a collectors court that brought bad deals into print,it caught a lot of con artists,(yes there were some then too)and also help make some dealers who didnt fairly desribe films,take forever to send them or otherwise bring their havoc to the hobby.It reallt did help to make it easier to buy with comfidence.Ask any long time collector.What I will never understand is in the internet age,why people want to sheild and protect the very people who screw them over.Again Dan,you don't know one dealer you wouldn't trust?????????
Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on June 28, 2009, 09:35 PM:
John W. wrote .....
quote:
Oh Dan,you don't know any? Sorry,I don't believe you. What I will never understand is in the internet age,why people want to sheild and protect the very people who screw them over.Again Dan,you don't know one dealer you wouldn't trust?????????
John, I never said that there were "no bad eBay sellers", and I never questioned who they were. You brought up the issue. So since it seems important to advise everyone on the forum who the bad guys are, I wondered, in your opinion, who are they?
Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on June 28, 2009, 09:46 PM:
The very same ones you think of,would love to drop names but I'm not ready for the attacks from the people on here.But I'm sure you know tomatoes and garlic for one.
Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2