8mm Forum: Which comes first? The projector or the Film?

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 17, 2009, 08:36 AM:

Okay, that's kind of a play on the old saying ...

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?

But in this case, which will become more rare?

Well functioning projectors?

Films?

I think it's projectors. I have tons of very fine non-faded films, but I run into more and more problems with projectors.

My new crusade, therefore, is the search for some brand new, in the box, projectors, as well as, (once upon finding great projectors), a great large supply of bulbs for said projectors.

Any comments?

Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on December 17, 2009, 09:18 AM:

Projectors, no doubt about it.

With film, all you need to worry about is degrading of the material, and colour fade of course, but that's not "critical" to the film "working". With projectors however, there are thousands of parts that can break, and getting spares is pretty hard now.

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on December 17, 2009, 09:52 AM:

I would say 'both', assuming we are talking about showing top-quality images.

The parts/repair issue is a big one, especially in 8mm.
Increasingly, the more common better machines, like the ST1200s will be the 'winners' in that, much like with 16mm Eiki SSls, there are lots around for parts.

But someone still has to fix them.

Good prints are not easy to come by. And I mean 'good', not partially faded, fixed, scratched or such.
Eastmancolor has destroyed so many films over the years that it has had quite an impact on both the 8 and 16mm markets.

The rare titles are being kept by their owners, the newly-made titles are very expensive, and many affordable titles are ruined by people storing them badly for years before selling.

We can't win. But we can lose as gracefully as possible [Wink]

Claus.

Posted by Stewart John Boyle (Member # 1785) on December 17, 2009, 09:56 AM:

All i can say Osi that when you run out of room for all your projectors,i have a spare room you could use to store the overspill!! [Smile]

Happy Hunting
Stewart

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on December 17, 2009, 10:42 AM:

I feel that my projectors will long outlast me. I have a Pathe Baby from 1922 which still runs like new and I am sure it will last at least another 100 years. My GS1200'S by and large are running fine, with the little auto-thread micro-switches being the only item that seems to need periodic replacement, and I wonder if the heads will ever wear out. My Eumigs are all fully functional, although I limit their useage because of the shorter head life on these machines.
Black and white films also seem to last forever. I have 9.5mm Pathe Baby film from the 1920's that still project beautifully.
Color film, as Claus has mentioned, is entirely another issue. Most of the color digests that I collected in the 1970's and 1980's are badly faded, and will probably be clear film in another 10 years. Thankfully though my Derann color prints all look like new and should last a very long time. I will no longer buy used color films unless they are known to be low fade stock.

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on December 18, 2009, 05:18 PM:

I thought this thread would be more like which was invented first.
Let's throw in the movie camera.

A camera can't be used without undeveloped film, and vice versa.
A projector can't be used without developed film, and vice versa.
So in what order were these invented? Serious question -- never really thought about it before.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on December 18, 2009, 05:30 PM:

Film came first, for still photography, as an improvement on glass plates. (...which would be really awkward for movies!)

Movie cameras came next, and they used roll film to capture images.

The first moving photographed images weren't projected but shown on small screens, and then projectors came later.

Posted by Michael Dixon (Member # 1836) on December 18, 2009, 05:35 PM:

In my case, I bought an 8MM camera in October 1963. Had no money, but opened a revolving credit account, my first ever credit purchase. Started shooting film. Later after the camera was paid for, bought a projector on revolving credit. Glad I did use credit to buy since I have some footage that would not exist if I had waited to save the money. Never bought anything else on time payments. Later bought Elmo camera and Eumig projector in Super8. Started buying films in 8mm and Super8, many of them from Blackhawk, a few from Niles and other sources.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 18, 2009, 06:26 PM:

Paul ...

I wouldn't worry about buying Eastmancolor prints, as long as you get the print before color fade sets in. I have had very good success keeping the color really good on my Eastman and Kodak SP prints. That is, I recieved them with great color.
The only faded prints I have I recieved that way.

If you limit your film search to only low fade color stocks, there are many a desireable print that you'll never have in your collection, as some earlier releases were only put out on Super 8 before the advent, (in general) of low fade stock.

Just my advice.

There were some other great points as well. I am sure that for years to come, there will be old photography stores that will have assorted good projectors, never used, in they're basements, and they will be more than happy to sell them, at bargain prices, thinking, "My Gawd, at least I'm selling it at a loss!"

Posted by Michael Dixon (Member # 1836) on December 18, 2009, 07:47 PM:

Storing projectors in the basement or the attic is not good. Store them in the area of the building in which you live.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on December 19, 2009, 02:31 AM:

In 16mm I feel it'll be lack of projectors and parts. Theres plenty of film out there.

Incidentally, Osi, as time marches on it is becoming more and more difficult to acquire Eastman prints before the colour has faded, as you suggested to Paul Adsett.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 19, 2009, 08:47 AM:

Very true, Micheal ...

However, I finally found a completely unfaded vintage print of "Conduct Unbecoming", which is now in cold storage, (unless, of course, I wish to watch it).

So, it is possible to find unfaded Eastman prints. It is a sure thing that not all Eastman film stock was created equal. The later, early 80's eastman was atrocious, but the earlier , early to mid 70's eastman has held up quite well, given a perfect set of circumstances, proper storage being the most important, of course.

It's why I haven't lost hope on finding a good color copy of "Grizzly Adams".

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on December 19, 2009, 12:49 PM:

I hope you find one, Osi.
[Smile]

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