8mm Forum: Help, my Euming 807 scratched my film

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Topic: Help, my Euming 807 scratched my film

Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted July 06, 2010 07:38 PM

Help, my Euming 807 scratched my film on the second pass, the film is new (filmed this months,64T)and I´m not lubed before project it, [Frown]

,what is the best lubricant for new films and where can I buy?
Regards

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Lets show another movie

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Jose Artiles
Master Film Handler

Posts: 357
From: Spain
Registered: Oct 2005

posted July 06, 2010 08:45 PM

Hi Jorge!
try to lube the film with filmguard,it protects and coates the film and hide teh scrachts,you can buy it at paul foster film website or in europe at wittner kinotechik

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As Steven Spielberg says....
Nothing beats old school projection. Digital is just an imitation.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 06, 2010 09:59 PM

The question is why did it scratch the film. Even without lube this should take a lot more than two passes.

If it looked scratched on the second pass the odds are strong that something became lodged in the projection path during or after the first pass, or something that should roll on the film surface is now dragging. Remember that if the problem occurred after the gate, the film would actually get scratched on the first pass even though it looked fine on screen. You'd only see the damage the second time.

I had something similar happen with one of my machines and it turned out to be a tiny fleck of that tape that holds the end of the leader to the film. It stuck inside one of my guides and gouged a green scratch through an entire 600 footer.

It came down to very carefully going over the projection path with a flashlight looking for something that might scratch my films. Since then I do this as a preventative step before I ever thread a film up.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted July 07, 2010 08:20 AM

Thanks to all.
Best regards
Jorge

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Lets show another movie

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Josef Grassmann
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 190
From: Hennef-Sieg, Germany
Registered: Apr 2005

posted July 08, 2010 08:25 AM

There are mainly 2 spots where scratches are caused on a EUMIG 807.

1. Remove lamp house cover.
Take both parts of film guide/apature plate out of projector and clean film path with alcohol and tissue or ear sticks.
Refer to user manual, otherwise you might destroy claw-pin when taking out parts!! (costly repair)

2. Lamp house cover still removed.
Now take of grey plastic cover (snap on fix) at rear exit of film -directly before take up reel- and look for film guide rollers in 3 or 4 places. Each roller constist of two halfs.
Often one half or both halfs are missing and film scratches on roller axle and / or housing.

PS: I assume that during threading film you did hold down black plastic lever underneath lens until film appears at the rear exit.
Check whether both claw pins are still in proper position, not bent or one brocken off.

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Alexander Lechner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 118
From: Leoben, Austria
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 09, 2010 10:27 AM

quote:
Now take of grey plastic cover (snap on fix) at rear exit of film

ATTENTION! Put the projector on its back cover before you do this otherwise you will lose guide rollers! They are not secured and tend to jump out of the housing like captured animals let free.

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Alex

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted July 09, 2010 11:52 AM

Ok, thanks, having already done all the cleaning of the projector before roling the movie and have some dirt in the framegate not relevant, after pass several time a pice of virgin film manualy without scratched, now noticed that I took this cap again is missing two rolls in the last pin that would be likely to scratch the film, had some dirt of the movie passing to Ross, now I can only try to make two rolls of those. [Frown]

Thanks to all.
Regards.

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Lets show another movie

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 09, 2010 07:18 PM

Jorge,

I wouldn't feel comfortable running film through the machine without these rollers. Their job is to allow the film to be contacted at the edge, outside the frames. Without them the point of contact is in-frame and visible damage could easily be done.

Maybe somebody here has a dead machine and could provide transplants.

Other than that the rollers aren't really hard to make. If you can get some delrin tube and chuck it in a drill (a drill press works better) you can use a file to shape it like the original rollers. Then you use a fine saw to score where you want to remove it from the rod and finish the cut away from the drill.

I did this when I lost a couple of these rollers and the new ones work fine.

[ July 09, 2010, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: Steve Klare ]

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted July 10, 2010 08:47 PM

Ok, thanks Steve, here is the proposal, if anyone has these rollers to sell I buy, however I will make some.
Thanks

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Lets show another movie

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 10, 2010 11:06 PM

Very good Jorge,

I'm thinking back on when I did mine and I remembered something. You start with a drill bit the size of the center hole and you leave the delrin rod spinning on the bit after you've drilled the hole while you shape it. When you want to cut the finished piece off, you just hold the fine saw blade where you want the cut and the finished piece will stay on the drill bit instead of shooting off into unknown parts of the room, leaving you to start all over again.

Delrin is probably the best material for this, it is easy to machine and very splippery when in contact with the film surface.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted July 12, 2010 06:07 PM

Hey Steve, sounds like two of us would gladly buy some roller from you if you'd be willing to take the time to make some.

Please.

Pretty please.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 13, 2010 10:26 AM

Hey Bill,

Couldn't in good conscience sell them (all those years of business school wasted!) but would be willing to provide a couple for good will and possibly postage(especially where postage to Portugal is involved...)

The thing is I'm a little overwhelmed at work and at home right now (Next..Get car through inspection!) so it may take a few weeks.

I'll probably shoot some pictures of it being done and post them here.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Josef Grassmann
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 190
From: Hennef-Sieg, Germany
Registered: Apr 2005

posted July 13, 2010 04:58 PM

It seems Alexander made some bad experiences in the past.
I always open the cover with normal care which everybody applies during working on projection equipment and I never lost a roller.
But laying projector on back side maybe helpfull for people with less experience.

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Alexander Lechner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 118
From: Leoben, Austria
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 14, 2010 09:47 AM

To save me from complete humiliation: I have been coming across four Eumig Series 800 projectors and only one of them still had the complete set of rollers. So I guess I'm not the only one out here who lost rollers ...

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Alex

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 14, 2010 11:14 AM

No, they are extremely active once released from captivity.

Years and years of building models and messing with electronics and cameras and projectors have made me pretty good at finding small parts that fall on the floor. When one of these hits the floor it seems to go right through it into some alternate dimension: I've never recaptured one once it gets loose!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted July 21, 2010 06:21 PM

Steve, I will gladly exchange some acceptable form of kindness with you, postage paid, when you can machine a pair or two! Thank you!

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Jorge Rondao
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Portugal
Registered: Jan 2009

posted August 08, 2010 03:29 PM

I also wanted to, you could send me I would pay the work and postage.

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Lets show another movie

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