8mm Forum: Which Is A Good STD 8 Sound Projector?

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Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on August 04, 2010, 12:07 AM:

Here is what I would Like to find in a dual 8mm(super 8 and std 8mm) sound projector or standard 8mm sound -

100w or 150w lamp
800 foot or 1200 foot reel capacity

Is this puppy out there? [Confused]

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on August 04, 2010, 07:25 AM:

wow..the reel capacity is going to be problem. As you know, the Eumig 810D's and 824's only take up to 600 feet. Maybe there's something out there...maybe a Fumeo or something. It'll be interesting to find out.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 04, 2010, 09:02 AM:

Just a few years ago Jan Bister woulda' built you one!

It sounds like you've stumbled upon some R8 sound features, Dan.

Posted by Simon McConway (Member # 219) on August 04, 2010, 09:27 AM:

I use the Eumig S810D and this performs well. In fact, I have this permanently set for Std 8. I have just taken in a Silma Standard 8 sound machine; not tried this out yet!

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on August 04, 2010, 02:18 PM:

Steve,

I only have one std 8 feature, "To Be Or Not To Be" with Jack Benny. I just want the option of a large reel capacity. With only a 600' capacity I would have to cut reel 2 and 4 of a feature in half and I don't want to that.

Simon, the Eumigs certainly are great machines, but the reel capacity is a a problem.

Posted by Simon McConway (Member # 219) on August 04, 2010, 03:10 PM:

The projector I mentioned is a Silma 240S (aka Prinz Compere) and is probably one of the most "modern" Standard 8 sound only machines you'll find. Elmo-like auto-thread, 100w halogen lamp, decent sound and very steady picture. Gives a great performance.

Posted by Spencer Bradley (Member # 2145) on October 06, 2010, 07:24 AM:

I'm looking for the same projector you are Dan. If you have any luck finding it let me know.

What is the reel capacity of the Silma 240S?

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on October 06, 2010, 10:00 AM:

Dan, are you just beginning to become curious about STD 8 Sound film or are you just looking for a replacement for something that broke? Phil Johnson is a great resource for this kind of stuff. Call him. He often has items for sale that he doesn't always list on his site. He's pricey, but all his stuff is fully refurbished by him, personally, and comes with a 30-day warranty against defects which is quite rare for today being that EVERYTHING is a refurb since there's no more NEW. He'll answer as many questions as you like. Very nice man.

Posted by frank arnstein (Member # 330) on October 10, 2010, 07:53 AM:

Here is an unusual Standard 8mm Sound projector on ebay.
Check it out. Its a Silma Sonik 8.
Item number: 220680619550

Posted by Spencer Bradley (Member # 2145) on October 13, 2010, 07:12 PM:

Would it be possible to modify an 810D and 824D to have an 800' capacity?

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 13, 2010, 07:28 PM:

They say given enough money you could fix the Titanic...

I don't know the 824, but the 810D's reel arms are just long enough for a 600' reel. That's one obstacle to overcome. Former member Jan Bister was famous for splicing together reel arms to make extended reel machines (FrankenProjector!)

The second one is that disk transmission which especially with age starts to lose traction with big loads of film.

The ultimate answer is to build some sort of external reel handling system like Chip Gelmini did. In that case you could run any size reel you want and the projector wouldn't know the difference.

The Gelmini Tower!

Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on October 13, 2010, 08:57 PM:

A rare machine with a larger reel capacity is the Calvin Movie Sound 8 which takes a DDB bulb but it very very hard to find.

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on October 13, 2010, 10:18 PM:

quote:
Dan, are you just beginning to become curious about STD 8 Sound film or are you just looking for a replacement for something that broke? Phil Johnson is a great resource for this kind of stuff. Call him. He often has items for sale that he doesn't always list on his site. He's pricey, but all his stuff is fully refurbished by him, personally, and comes with a 30-day warranty against defects which is quite rare for today being that EVERYTHING is a refurb since there's no more NEW. He'll answer as many questions as you like. Very nice man.

Brad, I am fascinated with std 8 sound film. I guess it has something to do with having a std 8 silent projector in our family when I was a younger kid :-) I do have a vintage 1960 Fujica Sound Std 8 machine. Works great too, but only has 400' reel capacity. Looks like I will keep hunting for a Eumig 810D. I'll be happy with that. I do know Phil Johnson and have spoken to him on the phone. Heck of good guy with strict ethics. I have bought films from him also.

Steve, I too thought extending the take up arm would put stress on the film transport system, but maybe not.

Frank, that's a vintage machine in Australia, but looks like 400' capacity.

John B., I've heard of the Calvin, but never seen one yet.

Thanks everyone. [Smile]

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on October 13, 2010, 10:52 PM:

At some point it becomes: do you want really long reels or not? There is not much in between once you get past 1200/1600 feet.

If you can find one, the Eiki Long-Play unit, made for 16mm, will happily take either Standard-8 or Super-8 films.

It is a carefully made machine that will accept everything from very small 8mm reels up to 6000-ft 8/16mm films.
The motor and the electronics, although primarily designed for 16mm, happily throttle down to handle the much smaller weight of the 8mm reels without ripping anything to pieces.

What you need are the brass 8mm reel adapters for the reels, a roller for the front arm of your projector and some monster reels to hold complete features. The last may in fact become the greatest expense apart from the print.

At 6000-ft capacity, you could do "Ben Hur" or "The 10 Commandments" in Super-8, with opening newsreels, cartoons, and antr'acte music without ever stopping the projector :-)...at least as I remember the run time in '8' along with the adjusted capacity from 16 to 8mm.

This is it:

I pay this device my ultimate compliment: I will sit down and watch a film, and only rarely turn around to make sure it is running right. It's that good and gentle.

Claus

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on October 13, 2010, 11:01 PM:

Claus,
I have never seen or heard of one of these. I'll bet finding one is a real feat. Very nice. Thanks for the info. This would solve several long play problems too.

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on October 13, 2010, 11:13 PM:

Dan,

It doesn't come around that often, but, as with so many things, EBay provided [Smile]

As I understand it, the motor and electronics come from the 9100-series pedestal Eiki Xenons (please correct me if I got the number wrong.)

It marries a good strong motor to some amazingly well-tuned electronics, to the point that my "worst case testing scenario", a 100-ft super-8 plastic-reel (weighing nothing) still played fine, albeit with just a bit more 'tug' than intended.
This from a unit designed to run and rewind 16mm features weighing many many pounds...whoever designed this loved film.

It runs forward only, with both reels side-by-side. You flip the reel to the opposite spindle to rewind after a screening.

If you find one, get it. It is a neat, space-saving invention that allows the ultimate luxury: a full feature without change-over, where you too can sit down and enjoy.

Claus.

Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on October 14, 2010, 12:51 AM:

You could also try finding an Extend A Reel.They were made in the 60s-70s. A;so Dan,the Eumig 824D machine is pretty good to.

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on October 14, 2010, 06:01 PM:

As someone already mentioned, you have to watch those rubber disk drives on the Eumig 800 series projectors. I still have an 810D that I got new over 35 years ago, but I can only use it as a silent projector now. Sandpapering and cleaning the rubber gets me good sound for a reel or 2, then the speed starts to fluctuate again.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 14, 2010, 06:08 PM:

It's a shame they have this weakness, otherwise they are such good machines.

Then again, who expected them to still work at all 30 years after they were made?

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on October 15, 2010, 05:16 PM:

But it is a major weakness. What's really surprising is that the sound head is still in great shape. And my machine was used heavily in the '70's. (Pre-VCR days.)

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 15, 2010, 05:31 PM:

The soundhead on mine is fine too.

Every so often it is slow getting up up to speed, but that is rare and has happened here and there for years. (Gives me a fright when it happens...)

As I've said before, it doesn't have the features of the Elmos, but what it does it does well and reliably too.

My point is I can't be too critical of the design because many of the ones that are failing now have outlived at least one owner.

If they ran two years and ground to a halt, that's different.

Posted by Bryan Chernick (Member # 1998) on October 15, 2010, 07:26 PM:

I wonder if you can have new rubber discs made? There's a guy in Seattle that repairs turn tables. When he repaired one of my 1960's era turn tables he got a new rubber wheel for it. He said he has a guy that makes them for him.

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on October 16, 2010, 11:35 AM:

Phil Johnson was selling new rubber disks for awhile -- you may want to contact him to see if he has any more -- though I don't see him listing it on his site anymore.

I think he was selling them for around $200 -- which is high, I think.

Posted by Brian Collins (Member # 761) on October 17, 2010, 05:42 AM:

Must endorse what Simon said, I have just rebuilt a Silma 240s that I have used for years, I have 2 others that I use for spares. It has an 800ft reel capacity, runs very quiet and smooth, this one has a rear pressure plate on the gate which is usefull for damaged films and exellent speed control.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on October 17, 2010, 04:50 PM:

quote:
Steve, I too thought extending the take up arm would put stress on the film transport system, but maybe not.

It would have to put more stress on the transport system, the question is how much can it stand without failing, especially 30+ years after it left the factory.

People that design stuff for other people to use should always put in a margin of error in capability, it helps us sleep better at night knowing that something we thought of didn't kill someone today (...as long as they used it right. You can foolproof but not idiot proof.)

When you hang an 800 foot reel on a 600 foot transport mechanism, at least some of that margin (maybe all of it) is going away.

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on March 21, 2011, 12:33 PM:

Herrrrrrrrrrrrre's Calvin!!!

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on March 21, 2011, 04:21 PM:

There is a DDB bulb on Ebay for 9.99 buy it now. Here's the link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/DDB-GE-750-WATT-PROJECT OR-BULB-LAMP-LIGHT-8MM-16MM-FILM-/270723611525?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f08627b85

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on March 21, 2011, 06:13 PM:

Wow...that Calvin is a really nice machine. I am looking for a nice standard 8 sound projector. Is that a reasonable price ($200) for a projector that may have some issues. The way the description sounds they may not be too serious but you never know. Well Dan, that would solve your reel capacity problem!

Thanks Pat for posting the picture.

Bill [Smile]

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on March 21, 2011, 07:19 PM:

I'm a little confused ...the eBay link is just for the bulb -- where do you see $200 for the projector?

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on March 21, 2011, 11:17 PM:

Tony, here is the link to Calvin;
http://cgi.ebay.com/Calvin-53-8MM-Sound-Movie-Projector-Does-2200-Reels-/370493794262?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564326a7d6

Bill, Calvin is Coolidge, but he has too many unknown ailments. also, the opening bid is too high for one who might require immediate medical attention.

That bulb is surely bright enough though. [Eek!]

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on March 22, 2011, 03:56 AM:

Hello Dan. Well my guess would be you have three options. A popular choice is the Eumig 824 Dual Sonomatic which limits you to 600ft reels, or you could go for the Kodak Sound 8 which is old but a number of cine enthusiasts around me swear by them as you can easily adapt them to take 2000ft reels, they also come with a F1 lens as standard. Finally you could be bold and have a go at my next project which is to remove the second claw pin from a Bolex SM80 Programmatic which should if my plan works leave me with a Standard 8 projector with larger spool capacity than the earlier SM80 Electronic machine. I’m still plucking up courage to remove the extra claw but my guess it that it should work out OK. All I then have to do is fit the two Std 8 drive sprockets from a Eumig & guides to complete.

Will report later on my exploits.

Kodak Sound 8 www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsRn2kt_h3M

[ March 22, 2011, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: Lee Mannering ]

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on March 22, 2011, 06:50 PM:

Thanks Dan -- I see that the link is in another post as well.

Posted by John Capazzo (Member # 157) on March 24, 2011, 04:20 PM:

Dan, too bad. I've just sold a Eumig 807D; mint and plays up to speed with all 4 sprockets; pads;etc. Are you solely set on an 810D? 807 is slightly different and I may be able to acquire one. I, too, enjoy standard 8mm films and I have many including The Invisible Man feature in standard 8mm sound on 4x400;, believe it or not- in addition to about 2 dozen Castle and Columbia 200' monster and sci-fi shorts. Incidentally, I've just sold Creature Walks Among Us in standard 8mm sound to Phil Johnson.

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