8mm Forum: Old prints (e.g. Ken Films, Marketing, U-8, UFA, etc) that have held color

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Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 26, 2010, 02:14 PM:

[edit]: I have changed a bit the title, so now we are not only talking Ken or U8, but all prints released during the 8mm heyday (until 1980s) which are still holding the color well. Please note that not only LPP/AGFA will keep the color but also Eastman, depend on how it was processed. One of example is provided below (Elvis Hawaiian Paradise) and it is not Eastman LPP too, just Eastman.

ps: Derann/CHC new prints do not fall into this category because they were printed after 1990s

Following the other discussion:

quote:
Adrian Winchester:
...I have any Universal 8 left that isn't faded. I checked a few and although a previously OK 'Creature Fom the Black Lagoon' had 'gone', my scope 'Jaws 2' has little or no fade and 'The Island' is holding up well too. So if anyone has non-faded U8 prints not in the fridge, enjoy them while you can!

and

quote:

Douglas Meltzer:
How about a new thread about Kens & U-8s that have held their color? I have quite a few!

I'd like to start a new thread for these two specific companies which are well known to have faded by now.

But as Doug stated above, some prints are lucky.

Please bear in your mind that Ken last releases (1980s) were printed on LPP stock. So I believe some of them have held their color until now. If you have it, please report here.

However, as Adrian mentioned also above, some U8s belong to me were also used to be good. But when I screened it last time, they have faded to red-red wine.

I never found U8 have still held the color. Any one get luckier?

So let's start post your title here so we know when bidding the item on Ebay we can get lucky as you. Providing screen shots will be more helpful. Let start with me:

The Sand Pebbles
Length: 400"
Released by: Ken Films
Country: USA
Stock: Kodak SP
Lab: Maritz
Date of Print: ....

cheers,

[ October 28, 2010, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on August 26, 2010, 10:25 PM:

My Frank Langella "Dracula" 2-parter and 1-400' versions have held up well. Also, my "Airport '79" still has good color. My 2-parter of "High Plains Drifter" has shifted into the brown/red spectrum which is somewhat tolerable being that it's a western and brown is normally the predominant color for the genre (all the brown plains, tumbleweeds and western town facades).

[ September 01, 2010, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: Brad Kimball ]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on September 01, 2010, 05:40 PM:

Let's start with some Ken titles. I pulled out some I remembered being okay, but hadn't seen in a while.

The Towering Inferno Part One:
Lab info to come.

Not bad for Eastman!
These are from The Pit and the Pendulum. the color is muted, but not faded:
Lab: Technicolor

Conquest of the Planet of the Apes:
Lab: Movielab

It's nice to see that not every film has turned red.

Doug

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on September 01, 2010, 08:08 PM:

I have the first "Apes" and "Beneath" from KEN and both look surprisingly good considering they're both about 25 years old. I'll try to get some pics up - still trying to figure the whole uploading thing out. It works good on Ebay, but I always seem to have trouble here. It's not the site - I'm sure it's something I'm doing or not doing. It's so charming how we all have these titles on digital format yet we still choose to watch these old digests from nearly a quarter of a century back.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on September 01, 2010, 09:21 PM:

Brad,

I have an outdated email address for you. Please use my email link and I'll send you my version of the uploading instructions.

Doug

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on September 02, 2010, 08:56 AM:

I know it's a big task, but it would be good to work towards compiling a definitive list of what from each distributor appeared on low fade stocks, or even SP as some are holding up well and could be early attempts at LPP. This would enable collectors to know what titles are worth looking out for with regard to good colour. Maybe some of us could volunteer to do this in relation to compiling information on a specific distributor.

It's interesting to know about Universal 8 or other prints that still look good, but of course it doesn't mean that other unfaded copies of these titles are readily available, or that they won't fade soon. I'm sure that (e.g.) my 'Pit and the Pendulum' is now typical warm Eastman. I'd be surprised if there are ANY Universal 8 release where ALL the members here who have it would find that their copies are not faded.

As for Ken, probably the best print I have for non-faded colour is 'The Rose' on Agfa. I'm not sure if I've ever owned a Ken release on LPP.

[ September 02, 2010, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on September 02, 2010, 02:36 PM:

I've had a print of SILVER STREAK on low fade, don't know if it was LPP or Agfa. It was printed a little to the yellow side though. I have some Tom & Jerrys from the Ken/MGM that are on low fade. I will try and check to see what stock they are on.

Posted by John Skujins (Member # 1515) on September 02, 2010, 02:59 PM:

My Empire Strikes Back Volume 2 still has great color (Volume 1 not so much).

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on September 02, 2010, 08:30 PM:

I have MGM/KEN verison of Tom & Jerry in "Cruise Cat" and the color is warm, but still palatable. Some spots are actually quite nice.

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on September 02, 2010, 10:11 PM:

I looked at both films and they both had '3 S'. The titles are DESIGNS ON JERRY & LITTLE ORPHAN.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on September 02, 2010, 10:31 PM:

Hi all,

Since I started this thread focusing only on Ken and U8 can we limit on that two companies only please. If we go to MGM for Tom & Jerry, it has been covered here:

MGM also printed on AGFA

which was started by me too. So based on that thread, it has been proven that MGM did sometime print on AGFA stock.

But for Ken and U8 were still a mystery for me if they printed on low fade stock too.

However, from the above responses it seems that at the end of its production, Ken switched to AGFA for a couple of reasons. For example the 2 Empire Strikes Back, The Rose, and Silver Streak.

To be honest, I want to see what kind of low fade quality they have (is it the same like Derann's?). So can you guys post your picture here.

At the moment, I 'd like to post non-pinkish Ken Films:

Can-Can
Length: 400"
Released by: Ken Films
Country: USA
Stock: Eastman
Lab: Cine Magnetic Inc.
Date of Print: ....

The three pictures above has been posted on the other thread. It can be not-faded print or on the opposite it is lab fault. I don't know!

I also want to see some more U8 with low fade or slightly fade. Douglas, didn't you tell me that you have Battlestar Galactica and the sequel without any sign of fade. Can you post pictures here please?

cheers

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on September 03, 2010, 10:04 AM:

Winbert,

I went to check on Battlestar and it is now officially faded. I had not screened it for at least 4 years. I'll have to look at Mission Galactica and see what surprises that holds.

Doug

Posted by John Skujins (Member # 1515) on September 03, 2010, 09:13 PM:

I took these pics tonight of my ESB Part 2.
The head and tail leaders have a date of Dec 23, 1982, but I don't know the film type.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on September 04, 2010, 09:30 PM:

My prints of SW (Parts 1 & 2) are pretty faded with a very red/yellow hue throughout. My ESB (Parts 1 & 2) are actually pretty decent. Not quite as nice as the shots from John's print above, but not as bad as the first SW digests I have. My daughter and the neighbor's son like to watch them on the big white wall in our living room (this is where we show the film on film nights). They're both 7 years old and they get a hoot from seeing the SW digests larger than the 30" our tv provides. My daughter is so bugging me to get an EPSON MOVIEMATE, but they're so damned expensive. I just can't wrap my arms around the $1,000 price tag - not to mention the Mrs. would think I'd lost my marbles.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on September 05, 2010, 07:05 AM:

Good pictures John, and thanks for posting them here.

It is definitely one of low fade (maybe LPP or AGFA) released by Ken at he end of their production.

It reminds me on my "the Rose" which has similar quality. I will post some pictures when I return from holiday.

cheers,

winbert

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on September 06, 2010, 09:32 AM:

John - It looks pretty conclusive that it's a low fade print. Markings can be feint and difficult to spot, but you might see them if you check 2 or 3 feet, looking between the sprocket holes. A magnifying glass is essential.

Regarding Universal prints, I think we have to view them differently to Ken, because although a few have held their colour, as I understand it no one has EVER identified one as being printed on low fade stock.

Posted by John Skujins (Member # 1515) on September 06, 2010, 10:49 AM:

I looked closely between sprocket holes on the leader and every few feet there were letters which were partially covered by the balancing stripe, so they were hard to make out. I saw what looked like ACCC, LAOI, ANL, LA, AN, LII, OX.

I would like to know if any of the Star Wars Part 2 prints were low-fade. Anybody know?

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on September 06, 2010, 08:03 PM:

quote:
Regarding Universal prints, I think we have to view them differently to Ken, because although a few have held their colour, as I understand it no one has EVER identified one as being printed on low fade stock.

Adrian, that was my understanding too, until the latest Derann list said that "Thoroughly Modern Millie" graded as no fade at all. I knew that this title was released on 2 version, i.e yellow strip on the top with photo picture below that and new U8 boxing with white box covered by an insert/envelop, similar with those 2 x 400" from U8(and for "Modern Millie" was pinky colour).

I don't know if the no-fade that Derann says is the first one or the second one. But I have the first one with fading color. Can you can ask Derann?

But when you were referring "no one has EVER identified one as being printed on low fade stock" was for all their releases, I can tell you that some of their carton (200") were printed on AGFA. I knew Woody woodpeckers, Andy Panda and sort of are one of them.

Osi once confirmed it here too.

So, can someone post the pictures of your U8 please.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on September 07, 2010, 05:11 PM:

Winbert, I think the white plastic Universal boxes with the outer sleeves were the last type they used as I'm sure the final 400' releases only appeared in these. I don't think there's any direct correlation between boxes and stock used but I expect any non-faded prints are more likely to be later batches.

Interestiong to hear about the U8 Agfa cartoons; I had a vague recollection of hearing of low fade U8 cartoons but I was mistakenly thinking that these were 16mm versions. Maybe these were printed later than any 400' releases. If anyone identified a U8 low fade 400' release, that would still be a surprise.

I'm short of time now but I'll see if I can do some screen shots next week.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on October 14, 2010, 05:37 AM:

Hi!

Came across one of my old KEN Films with good color last night. I'm sure there are more. I'll post when I come across them

Here's "MAKO-JAWS OF DEATH":

Fun digest too!

James.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on October 14, 2010, 10:15 AM:

James, thanks for posting it. But will all due respect, that prints look have faded to me. I believe it is on Eastman stock.

It is supposed to be graded as "has faded with some colors left"

Below are pictures that I also provided in the other thread. Originally it was taken in 2005.

It is Elvis "Paradise Hawaiian Style" released in a clam shell type box. It doesn't clearly say "Ken film" but we know that all Elvis digests were printed by Ken (with one exception "Change of Habit" from Universal 8 ).

Printed on Eastman stock, but I don;t know if I screen today it may have faded too. Hope not ...

cheers

[ July 10, 2012, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on October 16, 2010, 05:03 AM:

Now that you mention it Winbert, it does look a little faded in the screen shots. Thats funny, because when I was watching it, it looked great on the big screen! [Wink]

I guess I was comparing it to my "JAWS" 2 x 400 digest, where even the water looks red before the shark attacks! MAKO looks so much better than that one.

But that Elvis print looks p-e-r-f-e-c-t!

I'll check for more when I get a chance.

James.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on October 17, 2010, 09:01 AM:

Jim, I can't believe how nice the colors are in your "Mako". Just about all the KEN/MGM and other color titles I have are crap - pure tomato juice.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on October 18, 2010, 03:07 AM:

When this thread began I thought it would be short list; other than the stunning Elvis print it looks like I'm correct.

John, that Empire Stikes Back is as good a copy that I have seen in recent years, but even then I consider it has slight fade. When I first ran my Star Wars, when brand new, the colour was perfect, it only took about 10 years and I could see the fade starting, now at over 30 you'd consider it faded.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on October 18, 2010, 09:02 AM:

David, film will fade eventually.

I have a Marketing Films "Raiders of the Lost ark" where we all know here it is on AGFA. Some members say that their Raider is still in excellent color, no fade at all.

But mine (although also on AGFA) has faded like this:

The fade of my film is much clearer on the below 3 pictures because the scene was outside and brighter.

and when it came to a darker scene, fade was more horrifying !!

It was discussed in the older thread here:

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003953# 000000

No matter our films are on LPP, AGFA, or Kodak SP, it will fade eventually.

That is the reality we have with film collecting.

I understand you just purchased a Marketing Film from Andreas E which you say has a perfect color, can you provide some screen shots please.

Posted by John Skujins (Member # 1515) on October 18, 2010, 09:58 AM:

Dave, I recently bought a copy of ESB Part 1 from Jean-Marc that is also low fade. It looks as good as my Part 2.

Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on October 19, 2010, 12:42 AM:

The very last U-8 boxes were clear plastic with a momeographed insert.I have about a half dozen prints of Family Plot I got at the end.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on October 19, 2010, 02:27 AM:

There is no evidence of LPP fading Winbert, that I am aware of. We have been using it in theatres now for 27 years. Even those first prints have perfect colour.

John you are lucky to have prints as nice as that. My two SW and ESB have faded over the years.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on October 19, 2010, 06:49 AM:

quote:
There is no evidence of LPP fading Winbert,

If you are talking LPP as the Kodak trade mark, I don't know since I don't have one.

But if we are talking low fade stock, as my AGFA above, it proves it will fade.

cheers,

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on October 19, 2010, 07:17 AM:

Winbert,

Agfa and Fuji developed low fade stocks around the same time as Kodak offered LPP (low-fade positive print) stock. In the late 1970's when Kodak offered SP, the Agfa product was certainly better with holding colour, but none of the three had colour print stock in the 1970's that was a patch on what they offered in the mid - 1980's.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on October 27, 2010, 12:20 PM:

Next is the most discussed film in this forum [Big Grin]

Rose
Length: 400"
Released by: Ken Films
Country: USA
Stock: Agfa
Lab: ....
Date of Print: 1982

Nice color ! hope all Ken like this.

Many members reported here that they also have Rose on AGFA. I think majority of Rose is printed on this low fade stock. So if you see this title on Ebay, you will not be disappointed with it.

cheers

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on October 28, 2010, 06:09 AM:

Winbert-

Those colors on the Rose are pretty good. Not a great print to begin with, as the movie didn't have a lot to offer in terms of glorious colors, but its held up well. I'll try and check mine this week and see how it looks.

That Marketing print of Raiders looks like it has colors, but strange looking. I wonder if it looked like that when it was released in the early 80's?

Some of my Marketing have held up well. I screened Samson and Delilah the other day, and the beautiful colors were popping off the screen. Here's some shots:

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on October 28, 2010, 08:50 AM:

James, your Sasmson & Delilah print is beautiful. I like to have one.

quote:

That Marketing print of Raiders looks like it has colors, but strange looking. I wonder if it looked like that when it was released in the early 80's?

No, James, I once planed to re-dub the soundtrack to stereo sound, so I took video shot when it was still in good colors. I still have that video shot and it is so pain having seen how good the colors used to be. And now it look like the above pictures (the actual print is even worst than the above. Above pictures have been "corrected" automatically by my digital camera, so there seems to have blue left, but actually it is not!! [Mad]

)

BTW, I have edited the thread title, so now it is not only talking Ken and U8 but all old prints (released during the 8mm heyday until 1980s) that still hold the color.

It can be from Ken Films, Marketing Films, U8, Columbia, UFA, Piccolo, Techno Films, etc.

Derann/CHC prints do not fall into this category because they were printed in the middle of 1980s or after 1990s.

So anyone who has old prints that still have good colors, please post here as our screen shot database, so we can find how big is our chance to have good dolor prints.

cheers,

[ October 28, 2010, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on October 28, 2010, 04:36 PM:

Below is not my print, I just found from Ebay. But since it is a digest 3 x 400" print, I believe this is the one from Ken Film.

Having seen the screen shot, I can say that it still preserve the color very well.

Quo Vadis
Length: 3 x 400"
Released by: Ken Films
Country: USA
Stock: Kodak SP (I guess)
Lab:
Date of Print: ....

I understand the very same title was also released by UFA. I have a feeling that the reels actually came from Ken. Can German members give a comment if they have seen better color than the above screen shots, please?.

cheers,

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on October 29, 2010, 06:44 AM:

Wow! I'll be checking my print of "Quo Vadis" this weekend!

I ran a couple of musical digests last night, with mixed results.

First is the Columbia 400 foot digest of TOMMY, with great colors:

And, speaking of "The Rose", I ran that too, and its not as good as Winbert's copy-

Still very watchable print though, and both are decent digests.

James.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 12, 2010, 11:21 AM:

Please note: this film is not mine. Pictures were taken from Ebay. The winner of this film is one of the member here. I am just happy to see that Ken also has these gorgeous color.

Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back
Length: 400"
Released by: Ken Films
Country: USA
Stock: LPP (??)
Lab: ....
Date of Print: most likely 1982 (seen from the original box which was issued only on the last day of Ken)

The original box (similar to UFA released in Germany):

anybody wants to add more films you have?

quote:
When this thread began I thought it would be short list; other than the stunning Elvis print it looks like I'm correct.

So David, you don't need to be so pessimistic [Wink]

cheers,

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on November 12, 2010, 08:19 PM:

Winbert, I can see colour fade in your shots of The Rose and Quo Vadis. That Empire Strikes Back print looks good however.

Unless it is I.B. Technicolour, Kodachrome or Eastman Kodak LPP from 1983 onwards (or Agfa or Fufi from similar time) it will eventually fade.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on November 13, 2010, 08:50 AM:

David, you can see color fade in those Empire Strikes Back pictures?? Thats amazing. I don't see any fade in those at all.

Check monitor please [Wink]

.

James.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on November 13, 2010, 09:30 AM:

James, you mis-read what I wrote; I think the Empire Strikes Back print shots show no colour fade at all.

The Rose and Quo Vadis are the ones that have colour fade.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on November 13, 2010, 12:21 PM:

Oh David-

I'm so sorry, I totally missed the last part of your sentence [Embarrassed]

.

As for the Rose and QuoVadis- I can see a little fade on those (more so on The Rose), but I have to admit, that Quo Vadis does look good!

James.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on November 14, 2010, 01:26 AM:

No worries James; I had to re-read it myself to see what I actually did write!

If the fundamental shade in a scene is light brown, then it has started to fade. The Quo Vadis shots show this as do the Rose stills. Have a look at the Star Wars ESB shots and the full colour spectrum is evident still.

Posted by Brian Hendel (Member # 61) on November 14, 2010, 03:07 PM:

A question for James - Is your Samson and Delilah the 3 X 400' version? I bought a lot of films and included were parts 1 and 3 of the three reeler. The colors are so gorgeous (like your screenshots) so I am keeping it even though it's not really my cup of tea. Anyway, I was wondering if your set has a reel two and if the colors are as good as the other two reels. I have read another post that said there was an issue with reel 2 and the quality did not match the other reels. I'm just trying to find out if there is indeed gorgeous prints of reel #2 that I should be searching for.... Brian

Also, I'm very jealous of your Tommy print. I have had about 10 copies over the years and they have all been red so I gave up on it - now I have something else to find!

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on November 15, 2010, 01:13 AM:

Brian, I agree with you on Tommy. I love mine even though it is one of the most faded prints I have............I also have a pinball machine, but it has not faded.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 15, 2010, 11:24 AM:

quote:
As for the Rose and QuoVadis- I can see a little fade on those (more so on The Rose),

Hi David and James,

Actually, Rose is better in terms of fading, because it is on AGFA. The Qua Vadis (although I don't have it), I can see is on Kodak SP.

The pale color on Rose print I believe it came from the negative.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on November 16, 2010, 06:30 PM:

Actually Brian, its funny you mentioned that about Samson and Delilah-

That is exactly the case with my print (I didn't bring it up before for fear of taking this thread way off-topic).

Reels #1 and #3 are B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L color, while #2 is fading.

The only thing I know is, #1 & #3 are in German boxes, and #2 is in an American box (those familiar with Marketing Films can tell the difference [Wink]

).

I bought it as a set, but for whatever reason, there is that strange quality difference.

As for Tommy-
I might be willing to sell or trade that nice print in the near future Brian, and you've got first dibs on it!

James.

Posted by Brian Hendel (Member # 61) on November 17, 2010, 07:11 AM:

James - Thanks for the info so there is something odd about reel two of S & D. If anyone knows if there are good quality reels twos around please let us know. Also, yes, I want first dibs on your Tommy print so let me know when you're ready to part with it. Maybe I have something you're looking for in a trade?

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 22, 2010, 12:12 PM:

One Man Flint
Length: 400"
Released by: Ken Films
Country: USA
Stock: Kodak SP
Lab: ??
Date of Print: March 1977

cheers,

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on November 29, 2010, 01:57 PM:

Wow! Great colors on that "Flint" digest Winburt.

I haven't watched mine in YEARS. I'll have to find it and check the colors.

James.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on November 29, 2010, 08:16 PM:

My Universal 8 2x400' Battlestar Galactica may be faded but I recently got the 400' version and it still looks good.
Eastman rules!

.

Doug

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 30, 2010, 02:53 PM:

Aaaaah Doug, you finally put this Galactica ..... [Big Grin]

For me, this galactica is still good. I know it is on Eastman, will get faded eventually. But they are still good now.

Anyway, below is Doug's copy of "China Syndrome". I compiled them in smaller shots, so less grainy. The bigger shots are in Doug's original thread The China Syndrome

China Syndrome
Length: 400"
Released by: Columbia Pictures
Country: USA
Stock: Kodak SP
Lab: ....
Date of Print: 1981

It is still good for 1980s print.

cheers,

[ December 14, 2010, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

Posted by Laksmi Breathwaite (Member # 2320) on November 30, 2010, 11:21 PM:

Here is my 1980's RED FOX SUPERMAN CARTOON{ Billion Dollar Limited) 200 sound color still looking as good as the day I bought it and Marketing Films TEN COMANDMENTS 3X400 reel 3. Can keeping the films cool really help the fading films and keep the color from going pinkish?

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on December 01, 2010, 12:16 PM:

Laksmi, the Superman is good!

quote:
Can keeping the films cool really help the fading films and keep the color from going pinkish?

IMHO, cannot. But someone here is trying to put them in fridge. I don;t know if it reallyw orks.

cheers

Posted by Laksmi Breathwaite (Member # 2320) on December 03, 2010, 11:31 AM:

Winbert Thanks, I don't know why some of my Supermans look great and others are pinkish? Any way I first saw them in black and white as a kid on a small dish shaped TV. I would like to find B/W copies if I can. Do you know if they have sound B/W copies anywhere?

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on December 03, 2010, 05:35 PM:

Yes there are B/W sound super 8 prints of Superman cartoons. I have three including 'Billion Dollar Limited.'

[ March 15, 2014, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Bill Phelps ]

Posted by Laksmi Breathwaite (Member # 2320) on December 04, 2010, 09:41 PM:

Hey Bill , Would you like to sell one of your B/W prints? Why is BDL still looking GOOD! And were can I buy a non color Sup? Oh Jungle Drums still looks good I have 12 Sup cartoons in my collection.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on December 06, 2010, 01:35 PM:

Hi Laksmi,

Your Superman prints are good. I never got chance to get that quality. Is Jungle Drums from Niles? I have the same title from Niles and it is quite red.

regards,

Posted by Laksmi Breathwaite (Member # 2320) on December 08, 2010, 10:25 PM:

Hey Winbert , I got all of my prints from Red Fox but the Jungle Drums came from Foster Films in England. It was in a brand new Niles box. Hey I just got a Superman Japoteurs color sound that I just won on eBay and it turned out to be black and white. I was so happy I have never owned a B/W of Sup in my life and it was a misstake . Wow I saw it on those fishbowl TV back in the late 50's as a small child. Any way I'm glad I got it.

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on December 10, 2010, 06:51 PM:

-

[ March 15, 2014, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Bill Phelps ]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on December 10, 2010, 06:53 PM:

quote:
. It was in a brand new Niles box.

Is that the blue Niles generic box?

If so, I always got failed to get good color with this box. So you are the lucky one.

Posted by Laksmi Breathwaite (Member # 2320) on December 10, 2010, 09:39 PM:

Winbert it was in a Niles blue purple new official box. I guess I got lucky. I also have the ELEVENTH HOUR as well from RED FOX and it has beautiful color and I have had it since the late 80s. Here is my ESB STAR WARS part one that is not so bad.

[ December 10, 2010, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: Laksmi Breathwaite ]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on December 14, 2010, 03:03 PM:

This is owned by Peter Van Zand (member of this forum) who comfirms this is from an old print.

Look how beautiful is the color!

So don't get so pesimistic with MGM, some are just beautiful !!

Gigi
Length: 400"
Released by: MGM
Country: USA
Stock: Eastman LPP (??)
Lab: ....
Date of Print: ...

cheers,

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on January 07, 2011, 03:02 PM:

Early on in this thread I posted decent color pictures from the Ken 3x400' version of The Towering Inferno. Here are some pictures from the 400' digest:

Off topic but interesting is that in the scene where the helicopter explodes on the roof, the last frame of that sequence is frozen and stays onscreen for a few seconds. I recall that either one of the trailers or promos for this film used the same scene with the freeze frame as a background for titles. It's surprising for that to have made it into the digest.

Doug

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on January 07, 2011, 10:40 PM:

I can't get over how nice the colors are in your print after nearly 30 years since it's printing. I have Ken titles that are great if you like magenta and amber as the domiant colors in a print.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on February 02, 2011, 06:19 PM:

Not mine, i got this from youtube of someone taking screen shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asjQ6e6-7EY

This is a very common digest of "Alien", which is also very common to find it has faded.

But his/her reel does still retain colors.

Alien
Length: 400"
Released by: Ken Films
Country: USA
Stock: ??
Lab: ??
Date of Print: ....

cheers,

[ January 07, 2014, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

Posted by Carter Bradley (Member # 984) on September 06, 2011, 06:45 AM:

I recently won "Mako" on ebay mostly for the 400' box (since mine had disapeared), and sure enough, the colors are as vibrant as my copy from 1978!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on September 06, 2011, 01:26 PM:

quote:
I recently won "Mako" on ebay mostly for the 400' box (since mine had disapeared), and sure enough, the colors are as vibrant as my copy from 1978!

Carter, I have found "MAKO" for several times and they have always faded. Could you post the screen shots please.

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on September 06, 2011, 02:26 PM:

Winbert

I have that same film with awesome color. I guess once in a while you get a good one.

PatD [Big Grin]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on September 07, 2011, 01:59 PM:

Boy! That Alien digest has outstanding color! I wonder if it was an Agfa or Fuji print, as I believe that it came out before L.P.P..

I would love to find a Fuji or Agfa version of both parts of that Empire Strikes Back Digest. I have two very good Kodak SP prints of it, that are doing quite well, but you notice that it's started the slightest turning of color in the blacks.

I have to be careful saying that, however, as there were some shots that in the original perfect color prints were slightly browned to begin with.

However, can anyone who has a low fade Empire Strikes Back part 1 put up any screenshots of that digest?

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on September 08, 2011, 09:38 PM:

Screen shots from Star Wars 1 (Ken Film). It is still colorful. Print is not mine, I only took from Ebay. I beleive this is on LPP from 1982.

Star Wars
Length: 400"
Released by: Ken Films
Country: USA
Stock: Kodak LPP
Lab: ....
Date of Print: 1982

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on September 08, 2011, 09:47 PM:

I have this print also. Great color. [Eek!]

My Empire Strikes Back is the same. [Big Grin]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on September 09, 2011, 01:08 PM:

Boy! I'd love to find a STAR WARS 400ft with that kind of color, though I have the feature, that digest is a good one for just quick showings!

Part with it?

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on October 21, 2011, 09:35 PM:

From my very nice print of U-8's Earthquake:

Doug

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on November 26, 2011, 11:54 AM:

At the last CineSea, I brought along some recent acquisitions that I hadn't screened yet. One very pleasant surprise was the MGM 400' cutdown of Anchors Aweigh. There's still good color and contrast on this Eastman print. The leader had been replaced, so there's no lab info.

.

Doug

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 26, 2011, 12:15 PM:

Nice to see that they included the scenes with Tom and Jerry! ThanX 4 sharing Doug.

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on February 16, 2012, 03:24 PM:

Just came across an old catalog from Reel Images from Sandy Hook, Connecticut going back to July of 1979. They advertised several "Superman" cartoons in Super 8 Sound and 16mm that were only available in B&W. Apparently they only had B&W masters at the time.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on February 17, 2012, 12:55 PM:

Well, either that, or they chose the cheaper method and just released them on black and white. Reel Images was a neat company that released some very RARE titles ...

One of which is "Marx Brothers promo reel". This was a full five minute sequence that was never seen in thier hilarious film, "Monkey Business", although they do a different version of it in the film, (this is the scene where they all do Maurice Chevalia impersonations while on the boat!) ...

This reel has all four going to an gaent's office trying to be signed up by him, and proceed to tear apart his whole office. This version of it was actually part of thier stage play from the 1920's, "I'll Say She Is" (maybe Shorty or someone else can correct me on that if I'm wrong) ....

... and, it is an incredibly rare chance to see the Marx Brothers performing some of thier stage work!

I have this, but please note ...

The focus is incredibly soft. Sound is fine. Still, an incredible collectors choice for a Marx Brothers fan, and all due to "Reel Image"!

Sorry to get off track here, folks

Posted by Laksmi Breathwaite (Member # 2320) on February 18, 2012, 12:43 AM:

"Superman" cartoons in Super 8 Sound in B/W? I have one that is great "Japoteurs" it's called. When I was a child I only saw the cartoons in B/W and never in color on my family fish bowl screen TV. It is very hard to find the non color Superman super 8mm. Anyway thanks for talking about them. I do have some great Red Fox films still holding great color.

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on February 20, 2012, 12:25 AM:

-

[ March 15, 2014, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Bill Phelps ]

Posted by Bill Phelps (Member # 1431) on February 20, 2012, 12:45 AM:

-

[ March 15, 2014, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Bill Phelps ]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 02, 2012, 03:38 PM:

Northwest Passage
Length: 400"
Released by: MGM Films
Country: USA
Stock: AGFA
Lab: MGM Lab
Date of Print: this the last MGM released so maybe 1982

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 03, 2012, 12:43 PM:

Nice looking print there, Winbert!

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on May 02, 2012, 06:40 PM:

Slap Shot
Length: 400' version
Released by: Universal 8
Country: USA
Stock: Eastman
Lab: Technicolor

The Electric Horseman
Length: 2 x 400'
Released by: Universal 8
Country: USA
Stock: Eastman
Lab: Technicolor

Doug

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on May 03, 2012, 01:11 PM:

Boy! Both of those prints have faired very well Doug, which isn't always the case with Universal 8 especially, (unless your lucky enough to run into an unfaded batch of the good Kodak SP, like on my "Battlestar Galactica")

Greats screenshots from that "Northwest Passage" as well. One of the great qualities of Agfa, is that it can at times, add a slightly stronger green spectrum to a print, which in most cases, enhances the color and seems to bring it closer to a technicolor feel. I have the part 2 of the German Marketing Digest of STAR WARS, on Agfa, and the color is incredibly saturated and I must honestly say, the facial tones are actually better than what I have on my STAR WARS feature from Derann. It really is lovely to look at.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on May 03, 2012, 06:12 PM:

Those look great Doug, especially considering the source (Universal 8).

I heard once that in addition to film stock, chemicals had alot to do with how colors hold up over time. I have a few U8's that arent too bad, like Silent Running (I'll try to get some screen shots up later).

James.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on May 28, 2012, 06:32 PM:

Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Length: 400"
Released by: Columbia Films
Country: USA
Stock: AGFA
Lab:
Date of Print:

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on May 28, 2012, 07:44 PM:

Oh yea- Nice one Winbert!

Was it a clam-shell or cardboard box?

James.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on May 29, 2012, 02:36 AM:

James,, It is in a plain box. I got this from our Greg Marshall. But either carboard or clamshell, it will not tell you the color condition as I have this title on both type of pacging and they have faded as usual.

Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on May 29, 2012, 01:57 PM:

I have several prints on Eastman that have actually kept it's colour quite well, and especially my WDHM 200' of "Mickeys Trailer", which is as good as new!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on May 29, 2012, 01:59 PM:

Gentleman Prefer Blondes
Length: 400"
Released by: Columbia Films
Country: USA
Stock: AGFA
Lab:
Date of Print:

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on May 29, 2012, 02:20 PM:

That looks to be a nice print of "Gentlemen" Winbert,the blacks
and flesh tones look very good,mind you the two girls look good
whatever.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on May 29, 2012, 02:32 PM:

Thanks Hugh.

I got this one too from Greg.

Posted by Elyas Tesfaye (Member # 3356) on March 20, 2013, 08:26 PM:

Hi all,
thanks to Doug Meltzer, our Mr. Moderator Extraordinaire, I am glad to put up these scenes from a digest of Carquake I used to own. Doug wanted to know what all scenes made it into this digest, so I will let the beautiful screen shots tell their story even better, as after all, a picture is worth a thousand words [Smile]

!!!

Cheers,
ET

P.S: More super 8 print reviews coming soon [Smile]

))!!!

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on March 21, 2013, 08:27 AM:

Elyas,

Thank you for the pictures. What a great looking print. Outstanding!

Doug

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 549) on March 21, 2013, 10:11 AM:

I had my print of Gentlemen Prefer Blondes from new. That blue background behind Marilyn and Jane was once vibrant and bright, alas mine looks a little grey looking now too.

Posted by Laksmi Breathwaite (Member # 2320) on March 21, 2013, 12:27 PM:

This Print looks good for its over 30 age FORBIDDEN PLANET Super 8mm Feature 4X600

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on March 21, 2013, 12:49 PM:

Alot of sights look good from FORBIDDEN PLANET - Shorty

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 21, 2013, 01:08 PM:

Lakshmi, with respect to your FORBIDDEN PLANET, it is not in the criteria of this thread because it was printed after the 8mm heyday (pre 1980)

Posted by Joe Balitzki (Member # 438) on March 21, 2013, 03:26 PM:

Unless I am mistaken when Forbidden Planet was released on Super 8 the prints were struck on Low-Fade Stock so they should have good color...
[Roll Eyes]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on March 21, 2013, 03:38 PM:

You are right Joe, this thread was created to see that those non low fade prints can sometime have good color too.

The aim of this thread is not to look down the old prints.

Posted by Joe Balitzki (Member # 438) on March 21, 2013, 04:16 PM:

One thing that definitely helps the old prints hold their Color is the Lab that was used to make them. Careful processing and proper storage can sometimes make for a pleasant surprise upon projection.

Posted by Laksmi Breathwaite (Member # 2320) on March 21, 2013, 04:35 PM:

Hey what about my Columbia 7Th Voyage of Sinbad it still has good color. And it was made on non low stock. My Planet film was made by Red Fox that is why I posted it Winbert notice the name RED fox. I never new what stock they used?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on March 22, 2013, 01:44 PM:

Your absolutely correct Joe, especially with eastman film stock (non LPP). I finally recieved my 2X400ft print of "The Blues Brothers" (Universal 8) and the colors are surprisingly spot on, (except, curiously, for one scene). However, because of how it "slid" through the chemical baths, it has the slightest "browning" that comes and goes through the two reels which is probably due to the speed that it was going through those before-mentioned "baths".

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