8mm Forum: star wars empire 200ft BLACK AND WHITE

This is topic star wars empire 200ft BLACK AND WHITE in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006743

Posted by Anthony Buhay (Member # 2874) on December 28, 2011, 02:04 PM:

So i recently purchased the 200ft version of star wars empire strikes back. Ive read that there is no sound directly on the reel but instead came with a cassette tape. Does anyone have this cassette digitally on their computers that wouldnt mind sharing with me???!?!?! [Big Grin]

I dont know where else to look for it and i would super duper appreciate it!!!

Also, i read that there is a sound stripe on the film? so im thinking i can just record the cassette directly on the film if i get ahold of the cassette sound!

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on December 28, 2011, 02:36 PM:

There is a 200ft version on YouTube...but I don't know if it's the same edit you have. If it is then you can download and extract the audio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbe-RsOHwsE

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on December 28, 2011, 03:12 PM:

Anthony,

I have this 200' edition.
The film is also scored with the identical cassette sound track and it's not mute.
No worries.

The posted link is the 200' Star Wars. It's a prank with a bogus soundtrack.

Posted by Anthony Buhay (Member # 2874) on December 28, 2011, 07:47 PM:

@janice thats the first star wars 200ft version, the 200ft im talking about is for Empire strikes back. Nonetheless @michael said its a joke soundtrack which i can tell haha

@michael so just to clarify do you have the star wars #1 200ft or were you talking about the 200ft of Empire strikes back?

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on December 28, 2011, 08:15 PM:

Anthony,

I also have this version and as Michael said it does have a sound stripe with audio. I assume Ken decided it wasn't worth striking silent prints. Ken had earlier released a 200' version of Alien with an audio cassette, however that print had no audio stripe.

The color on my 200' Empire isn't bad.

Doug

Posted by Anthony Buhay (Member # 2874) on December 28, 2011, 10:40 PM:

thank you doug [Smile]

i am super excited then! i was worried i was getting star wars without and sounds! [Big Grin]

much thanks to all of you that helped me out [Smile]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on December 29, 2011, 07:36 AM:

Even if the added cassette was "free", it's interesting that Ken thought that people without sound projectors would be willing to pay the price of a print with sound, but maybe the cassette was sufficient incentive.

I can add a point which adds to the mystery regarding possible silent prints. At a 1980s Derann Open Day I attended, Derann had quite a few (maybe about 20) black and white 200' silent versions of 'Empire Strikes Back' in a bargain bin. I have a very clear recollection of this, partly because I was surprised to see that this edition existed, and also because Derek brought them up to the cinema when the auction took place (presumably because few had previously sold) and then sold them off for a very cheap price, maybe 50p each. As they were not in boxes and this would have been after Derann bought the remaining Ken stock, I wondered if they could possibly have been a batch that Ken had printed as a test and then decided not to sell, or perhaps they were the last prints and they had run out of boxes. Did anyone ever see this edition on sale?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 29, 2011, 12:56 PM:

Wow, that's interesting!

Can anybody verify exactly what the edit is on this 200ft Empire? Does it have the asteroid sequence? I would love to know. From what I understand, there was no new footage contained in the 200ft digest to add to the 2X400ft.

Posted by Anthony Buhay (Member # 2874) on December 29, 2011, 02:13 PM:

well when i receive my 200ft copy of my empire, ill let you know which one it is. THe guy said he didnt know if it had sound and that he thought it was in black and white but he didnt have a projector to check. (could have just been looking at the titles) It had no box either.

It may be this mysterious black and white no sound version!! dunno if thats a good or bad thing haha

Posted by Anthony Buhay (Member # 2874) on December 30, 2011, 01:52 AM:

hey Osi, the guy said there is the asteroid scene in the reel, but again, i will verify when i get it in the mail

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on December 30, 2011, 06:25 AM:

Anthony - if it does prove to be the b/w silent version, I'd be very interested to know if it has added captions/subtitles specifically for silent viewing. If it does, I suspect it has historic significance as being the very last film that these were added to for an 8mm release!

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on December 30, 2011, 11:12 AM:

I just wrote a quick review of this version.

Anthony,

Don't read it if you want to be surprised!

Osi,

I haven't watched the 2x400' in a while, so I'm not sure if this has any extra footage.

Doug

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on December 30, 2011, 11:55 AM:

Sadly it doesn't, but that 200ft version is still a gem.

Adrian, your story of those B&W versions is intriguing!!!

I need to get on with building my time machine... [Smile]

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on December 30, 2011, 09:34 PM:

I bought this new through Blackhawk Films and it cost $39.99.

Posted by Anthony Buhay (Member # 2874) on January 06, 2012, 08:45 PM:

Alrighty guys so i got my film in!

It is indeed a BLACK AND WHITE, NO sound or sound stripe.

so i guess the question now is, does someone have a digital copy of the sound cassette for this? Since this is without the sound stripe. I still wonder if its the same cut/edit as the sound and color 200ft version.

or Is anyone interested in trading their extra copy of a color&sound version of empire for this version to complete their collection? haha

[ January 09, 2012, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: Anthony Buhay ]

Posted by Anthony Buhay (Member # 2874) on January 09, 2012, 02:06 AM:

anyone? anyone? bueller? lol

I was going to take some screen caps of it tonight and show ya guys, but my projector just blew its first bulb since ive had it. (4 months)

When the new bulb comes in ill take some screen shots of it.

YOU KNOW WHAT! it just dawned on me... what if these black and white no color prints were meant to go into production and the cassettes they included with the color and sound prints were actually meant to go with b&w ones?? But instead ken films decided no one wanted black and white no sound and ditched the few black and whites they made and just sent out the cassettes with the color versions?

Just an idea.

Posted by John Skujins (Member # 1515) on January 09, 2012, 06:46 PM:

I just took a look at my old Ken catalog, and it lists F63 The Empire Strikes Back as being available in "200 and 400 Color Sound." No mention of cassettes or B/W.

But what surprised me was seeing F64 Star Wars (Vol II) being available in "200 and 400 Color Sound." Can anyone here confirm the existence of a 200-ft F64?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 10, 2012, 12:49 PM:

WOW! There's some interesting info there ...

I would be curious if there was a 200ft digest of the part 2! I would hope that it would basically be just the last battle sequence, which would certainly make a fine 200ft "part 2" release!

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on January 10, 2012, 04:50 PM:

Sadly I doubt a 200ft version of Star Wars Pt. 2 exists but I'd love to be proved wrong!

I think the catalogue listing was probably done before Ken started changing their minds about certain releases as video loomed. Apparently Empire was originally going to be 3 x 400ft...if only...

Marketing Films listed films such as Raiders of the Lost Ark as 3 x 400ft issues, but video put an end to such releases.

In the 70's, didn't some silent super 8 projectors have cassette players built in? I'm sure I remember seeing these...I guess Ken were trying to appeal to owners of these machines with their film & tape releases (as well ad anyone with a silent projector and tape deck!)

That B&W silent remains fascinating...I wonder if we'll ever know the truth??

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on January 11, 2012, 01:31 AM:

Some Noris machines had built-in casssette decks, indeed.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 11, 2012, 09:47 AM:

Anthony - I wondered if your b/w silent 200' Empire has any of the captions or subtitles that were customary with Ken silent releases? If so, that would indicate that it's a 'special' version for silent viewing only, and not simply a b/w non-striped version of the 200' colour edition.

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on January 11, 2012, 06:03 PM:

Good point Adrian.

I noticed that the box doesn't state "superimposed titles", as most Ken silent films did.

Thinkning about it now, maybe Ken figured it would be cheaper to make a cassette tape for sound, then to make an actual negative, and produce the superimposed titles on it. Makes sense.

James.

Posted by Anthony Buhay (Member # 2874) on January 16, 2012, 09:09 PM:

i got my new bulbs and here is whats on it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GzX7vsIe5A

It seems like its just a black and white without sound stripe version of the 200ft empire.

Its 8minutes long at 18fps. Which i found strange. My other star wars is recorded at 24

oh and also the reel/film had nothing written on. no ken films writing or date or anything! just leader with the countdown and the end ends with white.

[ January 17, 2012, 03:07 AM: Message edited by: Anthony Buhay ]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 17, 2012, 01:10 PM:

THAT is a very well edited 200ft edition of Empire Strikes Back part 1! It makes me really want to go out and get that if it happens to pop up, (I mean the color one with the cassette)!

Thanks for that video

Posted by John Skujins (Member # 1515) on January 17, 2012, 01:53 PM:

Anthony, the proper speed for that film is 24 fps. You've got it going a little slow there at 18fps. Neat film! B&W is better than faded pink color. [Smile]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 17, 2012, 09:05 PM:

Watching this in b/w, you can almost imagine it's a 1950s film!

Posted by James N. Savage 3 (Member # 83) on January 19, 2012, 06:24 AM:

Thanks for recording that black and white print of ESB.

Watching this movie on black and white film really gives the movie a different atmosphere, and a neat one at that. It does have a sort of 50's feel to it, but mixed in with more modern elements too.

I noticed that there are no subtitles, which leads me to believe that Ken Films didn't want to have to make another negative and have to superimpose the words over the picture. I imagine it was cheaper to just make cassettes.

I remember when all the local camera shops were liquidating their super 8 package movies in the 80's. After all the good stuff was gone, there was usually a couple of 200 foot, black and white, silent "Star Wars" prints left. Nobody wanted them! I even remember the guy who worked at one of the stores was practically giving them away. I was thinking, "Why in the world would anybody want Star Wars in black and white, and silent??

I'm kicking myself now. [Roll Eyes]

James.

Posted by Anthony Buhay (Member # 2874) on January 20, 2012, 09:49 PM:

John Skujins - but when played at 24fps the reel is only approx 6 1/2 mins long... hmmm I played it at 24 and it does seem better however haha my bad!

This black and white really does give a completely different feel. And with no sound you really pay attention to the details.

Does anyone have a digital copy of the cassette??

Posted by Matt Villagomez (Member # 2919) on January 23, 2012, 08:24 PM:

I have a copy of the cassette and if you'd like I can send it to you. I have a copy of Empire but the film has deteriorated so much it's not even worth watching. However, I have the full color sound version and don't know if there are different scenes between the two versions.

Posted by Anthony Buhay (Member # 2874) on January 25, 2012, 09:42 PM:

Thank you Matt for sending me the cassette!

DISCOVERY!!!!! This actually isnt the same as the COLOR Version!!! Now that i have the sound for the film, they dont match up. In fact, there is not much of the astroid scene in the color version. The entire astroid scene is in this version i think if im not mistaken. Nevertheless, the black and white without sound stripes are different than the color versions that are meant to be played with the cassette!

So i guess you can say... this is a different version than the other color 200ft versions

It is also around 6 mins in length not 8!

Posted by Matt Villagomez (Member # 2919) on January 27, 2012, 09:48 PM:

Anthony, you're welcome. Too bad they don't match. [Frown]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 28, 2012, 12:34 PM:

That's very interesting! TWO different Empire Strikes Back 200ft versions!

(Bear in mind, however, that the color and sound version would appear shorter, asnd the black and white, might be perhaps run at 18fps, while a sound digest demands a 24 fps speed)

That makes that B/W version even more collectible. I did admire the edit of that 200ft version. Very well done.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on January 29, 2012, 12:44 PM:

This raises the question whether there are other 200' releases where a silent version is longer than the sound one, even if played at the sound speed. I suppose it's likely.

Posted by Anthony Buhay (Member # 2874) on January 29, 2012, 07:40 PM:

yeah! @Matt its ok! It helped me out ALOT! what i did was cut up the cassette track on my computer and syncd it as best as i could to fit the black and white clip. Now my black and white has sound separately [Smile]

It is currently being uploaded to youtube and i will post the link to it here for anyone thats interested [Smile]

as promised, here it is: star wars Empire Strikes back, plus some history:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQosG_wa2T8

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2